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Metric System

odie

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Most of our turning tools, chucks, and lathes come from other countries -- meaning, of course, that they're metric tools even though they may be marketed in the US with size stated in inches rather than millimeters. And, let's not forget that the figure-8 caliper are also metric. :rolleyes:

Hammers are metric, too........;)

ooc
 

odie

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Not sure about that Odie, mine are graduated in ounces. You've got to hit a lot harder if they're in grams! :)


I forgot about that......many are in ounces, that's right! :eek: (Here, I was trying to be clever!)

When I observe the weight loss during the seasoning process of roughed bowls, I use grams instead of lb/oz.....It's much easer to mentally conceptualize what's happening when looking at the loss of MC over a time period......any pattern is more noticeable. (It's much easier to work with 1275 grams, than it is 2 lb, 13oz.)

ooc
 

odie

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Odie, did you cut your hairs? Was that done in metric or imperial?

lol......This more recent photo is closer to the truth, because it shows me as the senior citizen I am! I wish I could look like the other photo forever, but we all know that is pure fantasy! It was about time I tossed that decade+ older photo, and used one that shows me as I look today. Robo asked me about cutting my hair in another thread, because I'm no longer looking like a hippy! Well, I don't really claim the title, but I do feel I'm one that is very uninhibited in the way I look......what you don't see is the ponytail! :D

Later Sergio.......

ooc
 
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I do some of my own work on my cars and truck. I find it frustrating to have a mixture of SAE and metric on a vehicle. I ran across this with an '86 Buick. Had a dickens of a time with the oil plug until I measured it and found it to be actually 16mm. Ever try to find a 16 mm socket sold as an individual part? Happened to find one in a surplus hardware store. Still have it and don't use it anymore.
 
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an Aha moment!

Kelly I have a metric Pipe wrench and slip jaw pliers if you ever need them. If you turn woods from a country that used the metric system should you use a gouge measured in millimeters vs inches.


John,

Many thanks!! Now I know why I'm struggling trying to use these metrical tools on wood grown in the good ol' US of A!

Certainly gives me a new excuse I never thought of anyway.:D:cool::D

Hu
 
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I am pretty comfortable with both, and even if I wasn't the software I use can do the conversions for me.
BUT, what cheeses me off (and I hate cheese) is the inaccuracy of the materials we buy/use.
If I lay out a design with say 1/8" finger joints for cutting with the laser and pop in a pre-bought 1/8" plywood chunk
does it work? Nope, because it is really a 3mm plywood chunk sold as 1/8". The result is a loose fitting joint and so i have
to redo the artwork. So it's always best if I have the material in hand so I can measure twice and laser once.
 
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I am pretty comfortable with both, and even if I wasn't the software I use can do the conversions for me.
BUT, what cheeses me off (and I hate cheese) is the inaccuracy of the materials we buy/use.
If I lay out a design with say 1/8" finger joints for cutting with the laser and pop in a pre-bought 1/8" plywood chunk
does it work? Nope, because it is really a 3mm plywood chunk sold as 1/8". The result is a loose fitting joint and so i have
to redo the artwork. So it's always best if I have the material in hand so I can measure twice and laser once.

Nick, I believe it's been a good 15 years since sheet goods were actually manufactured to the thicknesses of their common names. Why are you surprised? Once must of those mills left the US, they've all been metric, even the Canadian's stuff. Just be glad you can calibrate your laser to metric. Us guys with fractional tooling get to keep our bench chisels sharp. :D
 
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the veneered mdf plywood I get is 1/8". I mean sold as 1/8" and is exactly 1/8".
It's mostly the layered plywood that is a pain. I really would rather work with hardwoods where they can be planed to spec but the price of hardwoods is killing me!
 
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Hardwood

the veneered mdf plywood I get is 1/8". I mean sold as 1/8" and is exactly 1/8".
It's mostly the layered plywood that is a pain. I really would rather work with hardwoods where they can be planed to spec but the price of hardwoods is killing me!

I feel your pain . . .

Years ago I made it a point to make friends with several local arborists. Two benefits: I'll never run out of oak, hickory, or osage orange firewood, and I have as much domestic hardwood, in any variety that grows within 50 miles of me, as I can want. I have a Woodmizer guy about an hour away, so I harvest, saw to my exact spec, dry and season whatever I want and can use. My shop is stocked with walnut, maple, cherry, sycamore, and poplar, and my turning pile has those + osage, mulberry, dogwood, and whatever the guys happen to be cutting.

Your local tree-guy can be your BFF. Make him a nice salad bowl and he'll be begging to drop trees off in your driveway:D:D
 

Bill Boehme

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I am pretty comfortable with both, and even if I wasn't the software I use can do the conversions for me.
BUT, what cheeses me off (and I hate cheese) is the inaccuracy of the materials we buy/use.
If I lay out a design with say 1/8" finger joints for cutting with the laser and pop in a pre-bought 1/8" plywood chunk
does it work? Nope, because it is really a 3mm plywood chunk sold as 1/8". The result is a loose fitting joint and so i have
to redo the artwork. So it's always best if I have the material in hand so I can measure twice and laser once.

Sounds like you've been too laser to measure twice. :rolleyes:
 
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Canada officially went metric in the 70's or 80's , don't remember exactly when. My kids are in early 40's and are not very comfortable in feet and inches, although when working on anything wood related with me have to grin and bear it when I talk inches etc. the wind blows in Km/hr and we drive that way too. I am more comfortable talking about my Sienna van using 10.8 litres per 100 km than getting about 25 or so miles per gallon, so I guess I am converted. I majored in Chemistry and sold analytical balances as my first job, so wasn't a great transition. Had a VW bug in the 60's and a set of metric wrenches, which I still have. Meat and veggies, fruit in the grocery store is sold by the kg. Yet it is advertised in both metric and price per pound being emphasized, for us old folks I guess. Fluids are all metric. Gasoline is in litres and our price bumps are more per litre than they are by the gallon in the US and as good Canadians we take it lying down. Our temps are Celsius and I am more comfortable with C than F. Working in my shop is all done with English measurements except when metric will work better. Oh and if you need an individual socket to complete your set, in either metric or English, find a. Canadian Tire store. Have a rack with both in shallow or deep and guaranteed forever.
 

odie

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The world would be better off to completely convert to metric, especially since industrialization, and all means of modern connection and communication is making the fabric of humanity so interwoven. Except for mechanics, it would be relatively easy to convert.

Converting to metric nuts and bolts is coming, but what about thread sizes? Even metric bolt heads still have TPI threads......:confused: Mechanical things will eventually convert, but it's going to take a long time.

How about language? At present, English is the standard for international communication, but will it be the standard for all time? How will the world convert to an international language? As well, the world would be better off to convert to an international language, but that's a really tough end game to consider.

How about time? would we be better off with days divided by 100 increments instead of 24 hours? What would "noon" and "midnight" become?:p There will never be a change in the number of days per year, because it's based on a physical reality......just like distance measurements are for metric.

Celsius instead of Fahrenheit is something that can't be converted soon enough......:D

ooc
 

hockenbery

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The world would be better off to completely convert to metric, especially since industrialization, and all means of modern connection and communication is making the fabric of humanity so interwoven. Except for mechanics, it would be relatively easy to convert. Converting to metric nuts and bolts is coming, but what about thread sizes? Even metric bolt heads still have TPI threads......:confused: Mechanical things will eventually convert, but it's going to take a long time. How about language? At present, English is the standard for international communication, but will it be the standard for all time? How will the world convert to an international language? As well, the world would be better off to convert to an international language, but that's a really tough end game to consider. How about time? would we be better off with days divided by 100 increments instead of 24 hours? What would "noon" and "midnight" become?:p There will never be a change in the number of days per year, because it's based on a physical reality......just like distance measurements are for metric. Celsius instead of Fahrenheit is something that can't be converted soon enough......:D ooc

Totally agree we would should adopt the metric system as world standard.

Not gonna happen soon.
Our country suffers greatly from the not invented here syndrome.
There is an animosity towards science especially in our congressional leadership.
As a country we rank pretty low in science education
Our universities are among the best in the world but most of our PhDs graduates are foreign students.
change requires a sense of urgency to take place.
No political benefit for our leaders and no money behind the metric system.

The army not being held to political nonsense uses metric but calls them NATO standards.

Unless there is some large widespread economic gain to realized were going to be stuck for a long time.
The gas companies saw profit in converting pumps to metric. Then saw more profit I converting them to imperial.
 
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I wish we had gone metric/SI units a long time ago. If we had, we all would be comfortable with it by now and it would be a non-issue and we wouldn't have to have 2 sets of most mechanical tools to work on things. I used metric/SI all through college (science major) and my first job. Then went to work in a lumber yard/building center and had to go back to inches/feet and board feet, etc. A single uniform system would just make things much simpler IMHO.

Danged stubborn Americans! ;-) Why can't we all just get along?
 

hockenbery

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Just curious, what's the metric equivalent term for "board/feet"?
Cubic meters. Here is a web site to help with conversions from cords, board feet, cubic meters....

**** removed the URL because Bill said it was suspicious *****
Google "board feet" conversion "cubic meters" and you will get plenty.
 
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Bill Boehme

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hockenbery

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I do some of my own work on my cars and truck. I find it frustrating to have a mixture of SAE and metric on a vehicle. I ran across this with an '86 Buick. Had a dickens of a time with the oil plug until I measured it and found it to be actually 16mm. Ever try to find a 16 mm socket sold as an individual part? Happened to find one in a surplus hardware store. Still have it and don't use it anymore.
I do some of my own work on my cars and truck. I find it frustrating to have a mixture of SAE and metric on a vehicle. I ran across this with an '86 Buick. Had a dickens of a time with the oil plug until I measured it and found it to be actually 16mm. Ever try to find a 16 mm socket sold as an individual part? Happened to find one in a surplus hardware store. Still have it and don't use it anymore.

John next time grab a 6 point ⅝ wrench, it is only about 125 thousands larger than 16mm.
 
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It really makes a lot of sense to the tool makers, I have a farm and need tools to work on equipment so I need two system of tools. More tools equals more money for them, works like a charm. Can't remember what the size is for a oil drain plug just take a handful, 16/17/19mm or 5/8 or 3/4 etc.
 
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The world would be better off to completely convert to metric, especially since industrialization, and all means of modern connection and communication is making the fabric of humanity so interwoven. Except for mechanics, it would be relatively easy to convert.

Converting to metric nuts and bolts is coming, but what about thread sizes? Even metric bolt heads still have TPI threads......:confused: Mechanical things will eventually convert, but it's going to take a long time.

How about language? At present, English is the standard for international communication, but will it be the standard for all time? How will the world convert to an international language? As well, the world would be better off to convert to an international language, but that's a really tough end game to consider.

How about time? would we be better off with days divided by 100 increments instead of 24 hours? What would "noon" and "midnight" become?:p There will never be a change in the number of days per year, because it's based on a physical reality......just like distance measurements are for metric.

Celsius instead of Fahrenheit is something that can't be converted soon enough......:D

ooc

Odie metric bolts use metric values, as mm from top to top of the threads, like 1mm or 1.25mm etc, like the Oneway spindle being 33 mm diameter and the threads .3.5 mm from top to top

There are more people speaking Spanish IIRC and there are a lot of Chinese, but they speek dis-similar languages I was told.

60 years ago I had to learn a new measuring system, namely the inch system, (though not the stone and chain measures o_O) but feet and inches, as I was schooled in the metric system, but the inches were still in use in the metal industrie and mechanical, though metric was getting more and more into the systems that were used, so I was then using both and had no problem conversing in either, even now I do know the sizes that are approx in inch and mm like ¼=6mm 5/16=8mm ⅜=10mm 7/16=11mm ½=12.5mm ⅝=16 ¾=19mm and so on.

But where metric really shines is converting lengths into cubic measurements and those into weights, pressure into water column using just cm per square inch.

I think the us problem is that there were too many english persons that were always doing things different than the rest of the world, like driving on the wrong side of the road ;), measure in what feet, chains or stones, gallons and then the us Gallon that isn’t :rolleyes:

Me I use whatever works and I don’t measure miles in mm or inches, there are mm cm dm meter deca-meter hecto-meter kilo-meters, so use them. now if there were enough teachers that really do understand the metric system and the way to use it, then we would have kids that would not be confused so much, and please don’t get the media to come and help giving wrong conversions etc. :p:)
 
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Bill -
"A nautical mile is approximately one arc minute of latitude -- the relationship is approximate because the earth isn't a perfect sphere, so an arc minute at one latitude is not exactly the same it would be at another."

I did a lot of navigation while in the Navy. I used my dividers to measure Nautical miles by placing them on the right side of the chart which was degrees latitude. (I know very old "60's technologies) Just as a point of metal mastubaritaion, how much to you think that I was off while navigating off of San Diego as apposed to Northern Japan.

Basically I hate the Imperial system. When cooking I have taught myself to remember that 3 tsp = 1 tb, 2 tbs = 1 oz, 8 oz = 1 Cup, 2 Cups = 1 Pint, 2 Pints = 1 Quart, 4 Quarts = 1 Gallon, 42 Gallons - 1 Oil Barrel, and finally a hogshead is 54 gallons. In the shop I deal with my conflicted sense of order with what my mental images are. I can visualize 1 inche, one ft. and 100 miles. I would love to be forced to relearn some parts of the SI system (BTU, PSI, HP) excluded.
 

odie

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I was in HF the other day looking at vernier calipers that were calibrated in fractions.......almost bought it, but then thought how stupid it was to buy something that never really was a problem for me anyway. I have a chart on the wall that gives me decimal equivalents......no problem. :)

-----odie-----
 

odie

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I grew up in Argentina with the metric system, for those of you who dont use it, i's so much easier to understand than the US system! LOL

The only way we will ever convert to the metric system, is to evolve into it. Us old fogies won't do it, but our children might, if they grow up with it......:D

-----odie-----
 
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The only time my wife uses measured quantities when baking or cooking is when she is trying a new recipe. After that, it's add and taste. My MIL was asked for her potato salad recipe. She carefully measured out everything and said it was the worst that she ever made.
Back to topic- it will take a long time for those on the English system to change over to the metric system.
Lou, I just used a 14 inch adjustable wrench for a while until I found the 16 mm socket.
 
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I don't think any significant American shift to metric will happen in my lifetime. I don't think it's because of any political/social defiance. It's just that there's no need to. I'm neutral on the subject, personally.
 

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I don't think any significant American shift to metric will happen in my lifetime. I don't think it's because of any political/social defiance. It's just that there's no need to. I'm neutral on the subject, personally.

Change is always faster when there is a sense of urgency.....

Where there is a need we have shifted to metric.
Our military uses metric for most things.
The scientific community uses metric.
AAW journal uses metric measurements along with imperial.

I haven't figured out why softdrinks are sold in liters.
 
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I believe that the auto industry uses metric. At least in the hardware, I don't know about the part drawings and other internal stuff.

They converted to metric for one major reason,$$$$$$, they wanted to source material and sell worldwide. Perhaps as the world economy gets bigger the rest of industry will follow along.

Will the rest of the country follow along?

Stu
 
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I'm a fan of both. Metric is great for so many things, especially those divisible by 10. Perfect for engineering. Great for so much.

The one place the imperial system is superior in my opinion, is woodworking. A cm is a silly measurement for human proportion and things we use on a daily basis—sure you can get used to it. But an inch is a glorious thing, because we can divide it in half again and again and it's still a measurement we can conceptualize and do simple math between our ears. From framing a house right down to cabinetry, imperial is king...wait a minute, isn't that where we got imperial???

As the son of a machinist, I was raised hearing long passionate lectures about how thousands of an inch are far superior for fine measurements. I can't succinctly repeat the reasons having barely worked in those fine tolerances myself...what do you think, Odie?
 
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I don't really care which system we use nor what we call it I am conversant with both. I'm just tired of having to keep two sets of wrenches and try to guess whether the pin or bolt or whatnot is imperial or metric. Lets make the change and be done with it.
 

odie

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As the son of a machinist, I was raised hearing long passionate lectures about how thousands of an inch are far superior for fine measurements. I can't succinctly repeat the reasons having barely worked in those fine tolerances myself...what do you think, Odie?

I spent the last 20 years of my working life as a machine operator in a shop making medical and dental tools for the industry. Many of these tools were measuring instruments. I can't recall of ever seeing any of these instruments calibrated to Imperial.....but, all of them were manufactured to a 1000th of an inch tolerance. Everything could easily have been manufactured to a thousandth of a centimeter measurement tolerance.....but, it wasn't. I have no doubt that someday, it will be. Off the top of my head, 2.5 thousandths of a centimeter would be .001"......I think. o_O

------odie-----
 
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