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Tool rest issues? Calling all turners...lol

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I am having some sever issues with all my tool rest" binding "not gliding like they should. One tool rest is cast iron and two others are rubust. Called robust which are awsome to deal with but havn't get to the issue of the cause.

Now I can not think what it could be I use red 3m cloth to clean any gunk off the rest and tools, and in conjuction with the 3m cloth I use CMT bit and blade cleaner and Top coat cast iton cleaner.... now to me they feel fine for 3 -5 mins. of

turning then they start showing wear marks on both tool and rest and have drag on them ... Any help would be great.... Could it be possible these cleaners did something to the metals integrity some how.


:mad::mad::mad:
 

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john lucas

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I'm guessing it cleaned any lubricant off. Rub some parafin on it or most often I use WD-40. I think you will be amazed how easy the tool will move. I spray the bed of the lathe and banjo with WD-40 and then wipe it down gently with a paper towel
 
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I'm guessing it cleaned any lubricant off. Rub some parafin on it or most often I use WD-40. I think you will be amazed how easy the tool will move. I spray the bed of the lathe and banjo with WD-40 and then wipe it down gently with a paper towel

I have tried everything.... at one point or another, I will try it a few more times and see but I don't think it will matter last time with in a week i used mineral oil as I use it to clean the bed ways and alway incledues tool rest as well.
 

john lucas

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I'm not familiar with the 3M red. I typically sand the tool rest with 220 or 400 grit. One other thought but it's pretty remote. If the tool is magnetized it could cause some drag. I've never had problems with magnetized tools but I've heard other complain about it.
 
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I'm not familiar with the 3M red. I typically sand the tool rest with 220 or 400 grit. One other thought but it's pretty remote. If the tool is magnetized it could cause some drag. I've never had problems with magnetized tools but I've heard other complain about it.

3m red sand pad http://www.menards.com/main/paint/s...-trade-hand-sanding-pads/p-1419995-c-8196.htm
CMT bit and blade cleaner http://www.menards.com/main/p-2315454-c-10080.htm


Also tried the w-d-40 same results no differents... And it is doing it to all my lathe tools. M2 steel , cryo steel doesn't matter.
 
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hockenbery

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I have a couple of robust tool rests with the hardened steel rod.
They work great. Maintenance free.

Like John I will use some 220 paper to clean the sap and other dirt off. The steel on steel gives a friction free slide.

I used to use Top Kote on my table saw. It was sort of Teflon like surface coat that made boards slide easily.
If you are using the same Top Kote it may be getting rubbed off in a spot creating a ridge where it is not rubbed off.

Also, I assume you don't hang your tools on magnets. A magnetized tool can act as you describe.
Tool movement is fluid when lots of lubrication present but drag significantly as the lubrication is worn away.
A light cleaning has always worked with my robust rests. Maybe some Wd40 or Ballistol when I treat the ways.

Al
 
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I have a couple of robust tool rests with the hardened steel rod.
They work great. Maintenance free.

Like John I will use some 220 paper to clean the sap and other dirt off. The steel on steel gives a friction free slide.

I used to use Top Kote on my table saw. It was sort of Teflon like surface coat that made boards slide easily.
If you are using the same Top Kote it may be getting rubbed off in a spot creating a ridge where it is not rubbed off.

Also, I assume you don't hang your tools on magnets. A magnetized tool can act as you describe.
Tool movement is fluid when lots of lubrication present but drag significantly as the lubrication is worn away.
A light cleaning has always worked with my robust rests. Maybe some Wd40 or Ballistol when I treat the ways.

Al

I don't use a magnetized tool holded all my tools are hunt on the wall from plywood construction. Altho you bring up magitized issue I turned a screw driver into a 3 way point but only used it maybe 3-4 times so I know its not that and I just pick up a new rest from robust and same issues... glide free for like 3 passes and then it starts the resistance from dragging you can see the wear marks that is only 3 to 4 passes and I am not pressing down't on the rest or anything. So I douced my tool down in dw 40 and rest as well see if that does anything different tomorrow but when I checked it after 15mins. same. Now the old rest cast iron 2 passes and it leaves almost a gouge scrape you can feel with your finger nail something is going on...
 

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hockenbery

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I don't use a magnetized tool holded all my tools are hunt on the wall from plywood construction. Altho you bring up magitized issue I turned a screw driver into a 3 way point but only used it maybe 3-4 times so I know its not that and I just pick up a new rest from robust and same issues... glide free for like 3 passes and then it starts the resistance from dragging you can see the wear marks that is only 3 to 4 passes and I am not pressing down't on the rest or anything. So I douced my tool down in dw 40 and rest as well see if that does anything different tomorrow but when I checked it after 15mins. same. Now the old rest cast iron 2 passes and it leaves almost a gouge scrape you can feel with your finger nail something is going on...

It is an interesting problem.
What tools are you using?

HSS should not wear on the steel rod and the steel rod should not wear from HSS.

Good luck...

Al
 
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It is an interesting problem.
What tools are you using?

HSS should not wear on the steel rod and the steel rod should not wear from HSS.

Good luck...

Al

I am using bowl gouge 5/8ths 3/8ths spindle gouge 1/2 , 3/8th . 3/4 spindle roughting gouge some easy wood tool ... hand made deals they all are giving me the same issue so I know its something I must have used or are doing something.
 
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The hardened drill rod should not need any treatment at all, unless you are turning some sloppy wet and very pitchy/sticky wood. The residue can be cleaned off with a scotch brite pad and some solvent, or I have a wire wheel on one of my grinders. Maybe a remote possibility that some drill rod got out without being hardened. If you take a file to it and can mark it up, that would be the case. Other than that, I don't know.

robo hippy
 
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The only thing I can figure I'm doing different is maybe i'm putting slight down ward pressure with out noticing i'm doing it. It seemed to gradurally get worse so now I am more to believe it's me and not the tools at all... I have rhumitoide arthritis so twisting and bending can sometimes be painful and i have been turning with a over hand grip. that is the only thing i can come up with.
 

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The only thing I can figure I'm doing different is maybe i'm putting slight down ward pressure with out noticing i'm doing it. It seemed to gradurally get worse so now I am more to believe it's me and not the tools at all... I have rhumitoide arthritis so twisting and bending can sometimes be painful and i have been turning with a over hand grip. that is the only thing i can come up with.

Heavy cuts in bowl turning 1/2-3/4 wide shaving put a lot of downward pressure on the tool rest.
A HSS gouge and the tool rest should not be harmed by a heavy cut.

Everyone has to adapt to their own range of motion.

I use a side ground gouge. My forward hand is mostly a thumb and forefinger with the thumb pushing behind the bevel.
In various cuts I use an open palm on top of the tool.
My foreword hand just holds the tool against the rest.
The backward hand holds the tool against my side or hip and my body motion guides the tool as I shift weight from the back foot to the foot pointed in the direction of the cut.

Try The file test suggested by Reed on the rest and on your tools. It should skate on both.

Al
 

hockenbery

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I am using bowl gouge 5/8ths 3/8ths spindle gouge 1/2 , 3/8th . 3/4 spindle roughting gouge some easy wood tool ... hand made deals they all are giving me the same issue so I know its something I must have used or are doing something.

"Hand made deals" ???? Not sure what this means. If your tools are home made then they may need to be hardened.
The file should skate on the tools too

Al
 
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"Hand made deals" ???? Not sure what this means. If your tools are home made then they may need to be hardened.
The file should skate on the tools too

Al

Well even my hand made deals are made from m2 hss which was a stinker it grind up but it's done with now... And I have not done the file test be knowing steels pretty well it will pass no problem. So maybe I need to look at the way i'm turning a bit more.
 
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Are you involved with the nearest club? You can ask a question and get several different answers. Kind of hard to tell for sure what is going on through the forum.

robo hippy
 

hockenbery

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Well even my hand made deals are made from m2 hss which was a stinker it grind up but it's done with now... And I have not done the file test be knowing steels pretty well it will pass no problem. So maybe I need to look at the way i'm turning a bit more.

What is so puzzling about your problem is that hardened steel against hardened steel there is very little friction.
The two steels should not change during turning.

Sap build up on the rest can be an issue with wet woods and some dry woods.
 
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Are you involved with the nearest club? You can ask a question and get several different answers. Kind of hard to tell for sure what is going on through the forum.

robo hippy

I did , used to belong to the wood turning guild out of grand rapids , Mi but I can't seem to make it to the demos or meeting they are to early for me. I do not function in the morning cause of my disability.

I have not totally figured it out but I think i am on the right path. Just wanted to thank everyone for their coments and tring to help me out.
 
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What is so puzzling about your problem is that hardened steel against hardened steel there is very little friction.
The two steels should not change during turning.

Sap build up on the rest can be an issue with wet woods and some dry woods.

Well I know a what little bit of pressure I put to the tool and with some wood fibers and shavings you can see what happens in the pics. that is why I think there is something else going on.

I did do a file test no issues like what i tought and did it on my cast iron well you can see a difference.
 

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My only other thought would be some kind of lumps or build up from finishes or green wood. The 3M pad can just sort of ride over these lumps. It might polish them but won't remove them. Take a file and hold it in both hands and push it down the rest so it's perpendicular to the rest. Do this a few times at varying angles up and down to make a nice smooth round surface. That should take out any bumps. Then hit it lightly with some 220 paper and put some WD-40 on it. If it doesn't run smooth then I will be totally perplexed.
 
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Not an expert by no means but wouldn't a first step be to clean it with a good heavy-duty cleaner of some sort to get sap, etc. off the tool rest? Then, the next step is to polish or finish it baby-bottom smooth.
 

john lucas

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John It would probably get sap off but things like gunked up CA glue or lacquer or other finishes that often get on the tool rest won't come off with simple cleaners. If you do the sandpaper thing regularly it keeps them clean but if not it may take a file to clean one off. If you have a cast iron tool rest and get lots of catches, especially with cheaper tools that often have sharp corners, you can nick the tool rest. I file will take off the high points of the nick which is good enough in most cases.
 
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Not an expert by no means but wouldn't a first step be to clean it with a good heavy-duty cleaner of some sort to get sap, etc. off the tool rest? Then, the next step is to polish or finish it baby-bottom smooth.

Well John I clean my tool rest every day many times a day with scotch bright for metal (red) its like same paper case you didn't know... and yes I use sand paper too as well 220 , 320, 400, and 600.
 

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Assuming the turning tool, and the tool rest has been properly prepared with mating smooth surfaces, there are only two things that will interfere with that single metal-to-metal contact point sliding effortlessly through the cut.

1. Your hand sliding on the tool rest.

2. Too big a bite with your cut.

There is a solution to both. Too big a cut is obvious.....take a smaller bite!

Your hand making contact with the tool rest isn't practically avoided, but the tool rest can be prepped with plastic electrician's tape, or Teflon tape. A fingerless cotton glove, along with preparing the tool rest with a taped contact point, will make your hand glide on the tool rest surface.

With this link, you'll see some tape-prepared tool rests, and an explanation on post #1:
http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/sho...g-your-tools-slide-and-glide-on-the-tool-rest

With this link, you'll see how I've prepared a cotton fingerless glove to mate with the tape on post #82, page 9 of this thread:
http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/sho...shop-and-quot-evolving-shop-quot-photos/page9

Making those tools slide and glide is no secret, but it does take some preventive application of a few things to cover all the bases....;)

Also, using fine grit sandpaper works better than nothing, but if you're really serious about sliding your tool on the tool rest, you'll give those two contact points a real polished surface. Get a 3M wheel to do this. This is explained in the first link above.

ko
 
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Just by using the tool rest keeps them clean and free of binding particles. They always rub off just from tool contact and motion. I never really understood the need to clean the tool rest in the first place but nothing wrong with it if you choose. I use a vicmarc cast iron tool rest and never need to clean it. I only once had to file and sand a ding out of it from something that hit it and I have been using it for eight years. Just hand wipe the wood juices off after roughing and go to the next piece.

I may be stating an obvious but are your tools sharp. This often is mistaken for to much drag on rest when in reality the tool is not sharp enough and the drag is metal to wood.
 
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Assuming the turning tool, and the tool rest has been properly prepared with mating smooth surfaces, there are only two things that will interfere with that single metal-to-metal contact point sliding effortlessly through the cut.

1. Your hand sliding on the tool rest.

2. Too big a bite with your cut.

There is a solution to both. Too big a cut is obvious.....take a smaller bite!

Your hand making contact with the tool rest isn't practically avoided, but the tool rest can be prepped with plastic electrician's tape, or Teflon tape. A fingerless cotton glove, along with preparing the tool rest with a taped contact point, will make your hand glide on the tool rest surface.

With this link, you'll see some tape-prepared tool rests, and an explanation on post #1:
http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/sho...g-your-tools-slide-and-glide-on-the-tool-rest

With this link, you'll see how I've prepared a cotton fingerless glove to mate with the tape on post #82, page 9 of this thread:
http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/sho...shop-and-quot-evolving-shop-quot-photos/page9

Making those tools slide and glide is no secret, but it does take some preventive application of a few things to cover all the bases....;)

Also, using fine grit sandpaper works better than nothing, but if you're really serious about sliding your tool on the tool rest, you'll give those two contact points a real polished surface. Get a 3M wheel to do this. This is explained in the first link above.

ko

Just so every one is aware I have a machine operator Over 10 years back round and worked with areospace parts with harden parts you can't grind so I know metals pretty well and there is nothing wrong with the tools i'm using for as rust,

tree sap, ect, ect, And my rest is in good shape when I do my finishes I remove my rest move the banjo and cover the bed ways so I try to take good care of my equiment.

I I did read your link you sent a few post back and it's a great Idea. I do have a few vidoes of my turnings but the camera angle isn't to good but you get the idea the hold that is most forgiving for me is a light over hand grip I need to

keep my wrists straight as possible any catch in bent possition gives me extream pain, an it is just more natural I do like a under hand grip too big with these big bear paws I can't seem to have enough clearence.

Here is my video if you wanted to see my forms... It was my first video and you can see why I don't do many. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09KicYDtMrY&list=UUtlUUQDjMhyOTDyMwnsP-rQ
 
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Ok I tried some underhand work and it doesn't matter. It seems something is causing the wood particles and fibers to stick like static or something to the rest and tool i'm using. Then for some reason it feeling like sand paper under the tool causing the drag. Now type of woods shouldn't matter right ?? I've turned cherry , oak , ebony , some other exotics as well.
 

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Ok I tried some underhand work and it doesn't matter. It seems something is causing the wood particles and fibers to stick like static or something to the rest and tool i'm using. Then for some reason it feeling like sand paper under the tool causing the drag. Now type of woods shouldn't matter right ?? I've turned cherry , oak , ebony , some other exotics as well.

Took a look at some of your video. There is a lot of dust from the roughing gouge. That generally indicates a dull tool.
While I can't see the tool presentation often, it appears you are mostly scraping. Scraping will dull tools much faster than cutting.
Also dense woods dull tools more rapidly.

Sharpening tools often and well makes us better turners.
Dale mentioned it earlier. Might be dull tools.

They are sharp when you start but dull as you wear off the burr.
Try sharpening your tools more often.

Al
 
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Took a look at some of your video. There is a lot of dust from the roughing gouge. That generally indicates a dull tool.
While I can't see the tool presentation often, it appears you are mostly scraping. Scraping will dull tools much faster than cutting.
Also dense woods dull tools more rapidly.

Sharpening tools often and well makes us better turners.
Dale mentioned it earlier. Might be dull tools.

They are sharp when you start but dull as you wear off the burr.
Try sharpening your tools more often.

Al

I been working with new wood to me (excotics) mostly and a few are super dense and do dull tools very quick, I do check my tools often and in that video the tool could have be getting dull...dust or small shavings is a sign I look for maybe I was getting tired or something I do know. I will be doing more videos so I can see what is going on and in a few days when I get the equiment again I will post a better angle of tool work. Funny think I did some turning last night maple and had no issues at all so could it be the wood? Does some wood have more static and want to dray its self to the metal and me?



It almosts seems like i'm grasping at crazy ideas...lol
 

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Wood definitely varies in how it cuts. I have a love hate relationship with Bacote. It turns Nasty leaving mostly dust and no shavings It cuts like its very hard but sands kind of like its soft and scratches easily. Why do I turn it. It's beautiful when I'm done.
 

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I had a video of a demo I did on gouges, different types, how to sharpen, and what they do.
There was a problem with recording the sound on the DVD. So it is intermittent.
My grand plan is to dub in what I might have said.

This may be of use to you to see how I use the roughing gouge and spindle gouges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs_VhUJRrPM

In spindle turning I put very little pressure on the tool rest as all the cuts are from the top down toward the center of the wood.
When I am holding the gouge only with my thumb, my fingers are supporting the work.
Fingers under the handle, tool on the tool rest, thumb on top of the tool.
This approach may not work for you.

Wood in the demo is citrus. It is fairly hard A little harder than cherry and softer than hard maple.

John has some nice videos out on YouTube too.
Al
 
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I may be stating an obvious but are your tools sharp. This often is mistaken for to much drag on rest when in reality the tool is not sharp enough and the drag is metal to wood.

It may be obvious to those who know what sharp is. There are just too many turners who only think they know what sharp is, and can't be convinced otherwise that they need to re-think their own sharpening techniques. Some don't understand that "sharp" is only momentary, and to maintain that ultra level of sharpness means returning to the grinder and honing about 10x as many times as they ever even considered before!

If you're doing that final cut prior to sanding, the sharp edge might last only a few seconds before it's gone. Understand it, live with it, and DEAL with it. Until that mental obstacle is traversed, the boundary of what is possible doesn't move back to reveal new, and undiscovered territory......!!!!!.....and, if you don't expose yourself to new territory, you will be forever limited to the boundaries you've set for yourself. ;)

ko
 
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Wood definitely varies in how it cuts. I have a love hate relationship with Bacote. It turns Nasty leaving mostly dust and no shavings It cuts like its very hard but sands kind of like its soft and scratches easily. Why do I turn it. It's beautiful when I'm done.

That is mostly what have been turning this week. Pens and smaller stuff. In the past few weeks also had the same issues with other woods but not nearly as much as the bacota, an Banksia Pods.
 
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It may be obvious to those who know what sharp is. There are just too many turners who only think they know what sharp is, and can't be convinced otherwise that they need to re-think their own sharpening techniques. Some don't understand that "sharp" is only momentary, and to maintain that ultra level of sharpness means returning to the grinder and honing about 10x as many times as they ever even considered before!

If you're doing that final cut prior to sanding, the sharp edge might last only a few seconds, before it's gone. Understand it, live with it, and DEAL with it. Until that mental obstacle is traversed, the boundary of what is possible doesn't move back to reveal new, and undiscovered territory......!!!!!.....and, if you don't expose yourself to new territory, you will be forever limited to the boundaries you've limited yourself to. ;)

ko

Right On ....All i need is a few mentors like you guys closer...lol Anyone in "central michigan " looking for a challange look me up...haha
 
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Christopher, I read through all this. Its drag from the tool to the tool rest if I got that right. You say you use like a parafin but after 15 minutes its gone and back to dragging. Christopher, I re apply candle wax to the tool rest and tool every few minutes. If it drags I just grab my yank of wax and rub the rest and the bottom of the tool. No need to super clean all the time. If after a few days it looks like wax buildup on the tool rest just take the edge of a screwdriver and rub it off and put more on. But as long as the tools slide smooth I dont care. Try what I am suggesting. I stand at the lathe for a living. It needs to slide.
 
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Well, I have never waxed any of my tool rests. The hardened drill rod does not need it. I do have one cast iron one, and never waxed it either, though some do. I wish I could teleport over there to see it first hand....

robo hippy
 
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Robo, Maybe its my climate. But whenever I demo no matter the place I clean and wax the tool rest. I clean and wd or other light oil the ways and under the banjo. Unless it all acts smooth. But always wax the tool rest. I have to my knowledge never demoed on a rest with the tool rod. Here rust happens fast. But it takes almost no time before I get stops and apply more wax. Easy, just a yank of old candle. A quick rub and I am good to go for a little bit. Detailed turning needing slick sure tool movements as soon as I get a metal to metal grab I reach for that piece of wax. I only offered what I did cause his description sounds like mine. But if any here do not need or have that problem please ignore what is my every day solution.
 
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