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Narrowing down sanding-kit choices

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Choosing power-sanding accessories for bowls, and see that there are soft, medium and firm disc holders. Most of my bowls, especially now, will be big leaf maple, cherry and alder. Later, some madrone. Which would you recommend for these woods? I know some of you use your hands instead of the power sanding, but I think the wear and tear on my hands would be less with the power approach. The opposable-thumb part of biomechanics has little endurance these days.:p
 

odie

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Jamie.....You probably will be able to use most of the commonly used power sanding disc methods, with time and getting used to what you have. I started with the merit power lock system back in the 80's, and then went through a period where I tried some of the other variants. I went back to the power lock method and have stayed with it since. No matter what you use, you're going to go through the same progression through the grits, and the method of attachment is the practical variable. The power lock was originally developed for welders who need to smooth up/clean up their welds. I've found this system to be the most durable, or long lasting. Other methods, such as peel and stick, or Velcro attachments wear out much quicker......not the abrasive, but the method of attachment isn't as durable. I've found that the power lock can be attached and unattached repeatedly and the abrasive wearing out is the only thing that will cause you to toss it.

By running a spinning rubber backer up against a larger fixed sanding disc, you can change the diameter of the backers. This is very helpful to negotiate gradual and progressively tighter curve of your bowl. The tighter the curve, the more useful the flex edge discs are. The standard discs are better suited to less critical curves.......I use both. I also use a variety of pre-shaped backers. If you decide to try the power lock method, you'll find there is a lot of flexibility in what you can do with them, given the backers can be cut down in diameter, and the versatility of both the standard and flex edge discs.

I normally don't use power sanding above 180 grit, and hand sand to 600 grit from there. Occasionally I use the 220 grit, but seldom use any grits higher than that, although I have a few of the 320 on hand.

ko
 
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john lucas

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Jamie I'm a fan of his products especially the sandpaper but the discs are great also. Vince will be glad to steer you in the right direction. One of the best things I did was to buy a disc for each grit I use. It reduces the wear and tear on the Velcro tremendously. http://vinceswoodnwonders.com/
 
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Jamie I'm a fan of his products especially the sandpaper but the discs are great also. Vince will be glad to steer you in the right direction. One of the best things I did was to buy a disc for each grit I use. It reduces the wear and tear on the Velcro tremendously. http://vinceswoodnwonders.com/
Thanks, John , your's is the second recommendation for Vince. Could you give me advice on the disc holders (soft, medium, firm)? Or does he sell only one type?
 
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odie;10I'll have965 said:
Jamie.....You probably will be able to use most of the commonly used power sanding disc methods, with time and getting used to what you have. I started with the merit power lock system back in the 80's, [Snip]

ko
Thanks, Odie, I'll check that system out!
 
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Another vote for Vince. I have tried just about every thing out there, and from time to time Vince finds some thing different to try, but I keep coming back to his blue discs. They cut better and last longer than any others out there. From me, best deal for price and best quality. I prefer the 3 inch discs, which are actually 3 3/8 inch wide. A 3 inch disc has more than twice the surface area of a 2 inch disc. You buy at least one good mandrill, then a couple of interface pads to go on the mandrill. The interface pads, like the mandrill will wear out eventually, and are much cheaper to replace. My favorite for coarser grits, up to 180 or 220 is his radius edge firm pad. You want firm for leveling out any bumps and humps, and the firm pad will do this in less than half the time that a soft pad will. I use his orange medium discs for grits up to 400, and don't take my bowls beyond that. I don't like firm or soft pads that are the same diameter as the discs. Main reason is that the plastic hook part of the pad can leave 80 grit scratches in the wood. I took my medium orange pads and trimmed them down to 3 inch diameter. The really soft pads are for polishing grits, above 400.

The slow speed angle drill is the preferred tool for bowl sanding. Vince does have one in his store. Some opt for the $30 one from Harbor Freight. I have the Milwaukee angle drills. The angle drill, compared to the 90 degree drill fits inside bowls easily. Some use the older pistol type drills which also work. The cordless drills are some times used but are pretty heavy. We use them as grinders, and they are drills, so the bearings wear out. I am trying to find some thing with more heavy duty bearings. The search goes on.... Use slower speeds, with the trigger pushed in maybe half way, and no more pressure than the weight of the drill. If you are sanding at high speed, the abrasives don't have a chance to dig in and really cut. This is why slower speeds cut better. Also, you don't generate as much heat.

I have a sanding video clip up too, and a sanding hood that I made.

Jamie, here is an off topic clip for you since you are a horse person...

https://www.facebook.com/reed.gray.35/posts/10206504627407719?notif_t=like

robo hippy
 
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Thanks, John , your's is the second recommendation for Vince. Could you give me advice on the disc holders (soft, medium, firm)? Or does he sell only one type?

Me too - buy from Vince that is.

I believe his website has instructions on the progression of hard to soft backing pads. (Vince is also a forum contributor, so he may join in on this.) In general, you start with the more firm pads with the coarser grits (up to 120/150?) to take out the tool marks, tear-out, shape refining, etc. The idea is that you want to even out the differences between the valleys and mountains — so you ride the mountians and not let the sandpaper dip into the valleys. Once the mountains and valleys are more plains-like you go to the medium pads for 180-220(?) and then the soft pads above that. The soft pads conform to the surface curves and are merely following the surface to remove sanding scratches.
 

john lucas

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I will be demoing at the Georgia Symposium next weekend and there is a good possibility I will see Vince. Don't know if he will be there or not as I haven't looked at the list of vendors but he makes a lot of the southern symposiums. I'll check out what he has. I bought my discs so long ago I don't remember what they are. They are pretty firm because I like to be able to sand up to the corners on beads and raised details in my bowls and I can do that with those discs. Also with firm discs if you have a light touch you don't aggravate the lumps that come from summer, winter wood variances in hardness that easily happen with soft discs.
 
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Agree that Vince is a good resource, but also consider forum contributor Steve Worchester whose web site is turningwood.com and who also offers knowledge, experience, good service and good products.
 
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Abranet in rolls!

Agree that Vince is a good resource, but also consider forum contributor Steve Worchester whose web site is turningwood.com and who also offers knowledge, experience, good service and good products.

Well, he got my attention right away -- discovered Abranet on rolls right there on the home page. Will check out the rest of his site too.:) I sanded my maple bowl tonight using cut-up Abranet discs, I just love the stuff. Cooler, just move it around on the fingers; if it gets a little clog, I hold it up to the dust hood and Poof! clog gone; lasts a long, long, long time!
 
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Milwaukee angle drill

[Snip]

I have a sanding video clip up too, and a sanding hood that I made.

[Snip]
robo hippy

Watched your sanding video, good stuff, love the hood. BTW, glad to see you're keeping the old Milwaukee drills going. I looked at them last night, and the new ones get raked over the coals by reviewers, some of whom loved the older ones, but hate the new one. 30% of the reviews were 1 or 2 stars due to bad trigger control and poor design. At $139, that is not a good thing. :( Leaves me wondering what the alternatives are in that price range. All the other drills in a search seem to be the cheapie Neiko or its clones.

PS: I got a little seasick during the finishing part of that warped bowl.:p
 
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I have tried some of the abranet type abrasives. Interesting. Main thing I didn't like is that the coarse grits were very slow to cut. Once I got up into 220 and above it was pretty similar. I am thinking that it was mostly due to all the open area. There used to be an abrasive called Astra Dot or some thing like that. Dots of abrasive on a disc, rather than solid cover. Same thing. The idea was that it wouldn't clog up. Didn't cut nearly as fast as the full cover abrasives. I don't wet sand, so maybe it might make a difference with that.

robo hippy
 
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I have tried some of the abranet type abrasives. Interesting. Main thing I didn't like is that the coarse grits were very slow to cut. Once I got up into 220 and above it was pretty similar. I am thinking that it was mostly due to all the open area. There used to be an abrasive called Astra Dot or some thing like that. Dots of abrasive on a disc, rather than solid cover. Same thing. The idea was that it wouldn't clog up. Didn't cut nearly as fast as the full cover abrasives. I don't wet sand, so maybe it might make a difference with that.

robo hippy

I had used Abranet exclusively on a random orbital sander, discovered it when making several cubbie/coat rack things out of poplar, then painted. Always started at 150 or 180 off the planer, it lasted 5x as long as the other decent brands of discs on a Dewalt ROS with vacuum attached. I have little experience with grits below 150.
 

odie

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You also might want to check on "the sanding glove".

This outfit is where I get supplies for my Grex random orbital sander, but they specialize in abrasive products for the woodturner.

http://thesandingglove.com/default.asp

BTW: I get my power lock discs and accessories from CSUSA and Packard.

ko
 

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We use a makita 3/8 90 degree drill variable speed.
Really comfortable to hold and control has the large paddle switch on the handle.

We mostly turn hollow forms and platters with the occasional bowl.
The bowls are mostly hemispherical or more open so the 90 degree handle doesn't get in the way.

Abranet is terrific for wet wood. Steve Worcester has it Velcro backed in long rolls.
The Velcro backing make it comfortable to hold and you can cut pieces to go on a padded mandrel.

Turning wood, Sanding glove, wooden wonders all deserve plug for their support of the AAW and regional symposiums.
They are run by honest caring individuals.
They only sell stuff that works.

Sanding glove just visited out club a month ago.

Al
 
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I'm not sure what they retail for over there but a lot of wood turners here use the Makita angle drill http://www.makitatools.com/en-us/Modules/Tools/ToolDetails.aspx?Name=DA3010F I have this model but with a keyless chuck (which is actually a pain)
Ergonomically those Milwaukee ones look better (they never brought them to Australia though - at least not when I was buying)

Josh

They run around $200, kinda out of my current price range.:p I'm not sure a right-angle would work for me, as with smaller bowls it seems the handle would be more likely to hit the bowl rim than with a 55-degree sander. I just ordered the cheapie from Amazon. Will see how it goes! Thanks, Josh.
 
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Hand sanding and power sanding have been commented on, I'm curious why inertia sanders haven't been discussed as another way to sand turnings. I am aware of some professionals that use them. What are your opinions of this method?
 

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I have the Sorby inertia sander, but I haven't used it in years. It has a plain bearing that isn't protected from dust so it didn't take too long before there was a lot of wear that caused it to not spin as smoothly. I have seen the inertia sander designed by the sanding Glove and it looks to be very well engineered including sealed ball bearings. I spoke to a few individuals at SWAT who owned them and they seemed to be very pleased with them although they seemed to be exceedingly expensive for something without a motor. The trouble that I had with mine (Sorby) was that I felt restricted on how they needed to be oriented to maintain control of speed as well as getting a desired sanding action.

Like Odie, I have a genuine Made in USA Sioux angle drill that I got at around the turn of the century.
 

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I tried inertia sanders but just didn't like them. I think part of the problem is that on problem areas I often sand with the wood stationary. That of course won't work with Inertia sanders. I also found that they don't work very well on platters and my hand mirrors when sanding near the center. That's of course because the surface speed of the center of the wood isn't very great and simply doesn't rotate the disc well. Give me power or hand sanding any day. When hand sanding it's much easier to sand with the grain to get rid of those odd grit lines left from the prervious grits. You can also sand cross grain to help show what's happening when you change grits so you know you've removed all the sanding lines from the previous grits. Most of my projects are small so hand sanding is very viable. ON larger turnings it's simply much faster with power sanding although I still use all the tricks like using different areas of the disc so that it sands in different directions to help see where you've sanded and if you've removed all the previous sanding lines.
 

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OK, had no idea sanding wet wood was part of the process! This is funny, could you enlighten me plz?

I don't often sand wet wood. I mostly finish turn wet wood let it dry and sand off the lathe.

Sanding a natural edge bowl from a crotch or a hollow from a burls or crotch figure while it is wet will give a nice rippled texture when dry.
Once dry the sanding needs to cut the tops of the ripple offs.

I do them both ways
Al
 
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I will be demoing at the Georgia Symposium next weekend and there is a good possibility I will see Vince. Don't know if he will be there or not as I haven't looked at the list of vendors but he makes a lot of the southern symposiums. I'll check out what he has. I bought my discs so long ago I don't remember what they are. They are pretty firm because I like to be able to sand up to the corners on beads and raised details in my bowls and I can do that with those discs. Also with firm discs if you have a light touch you don't aggravate the lumps that come from summer, winter wood variances in hardness that easily happen with soft discs.

Thanks, John, I need to put together an affordable beginner's kit for smallish bowls (max 8" diameter, several smaller than that). My Neiko sander arrived yesterday, but I'm away from the lathe most of next week. Would like to order from him Wednesday the 23rd so stuff will be here shortly after I come back. (Leaving hubby behind, taking a trip to the SoCal desert to see siblings).

That sander is much heavier than I expected from the pictures, but balanced fairly well. Noisy, noisy though!
 
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If you tell any of the vendors mentioned in this thread what you want to accomplish, I bet they'd put together a starter kit for you, even if they don't list one on their site. (If you're not going bigger than 10 or 12 inch bowls, a 2" set will be all you'll need, for example)
 
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I have a bunch of baggies of blue discs from Vince's and a homemade inertia sander (using the magnetic ball bushing from Eddie Castelin and a Napa auto parts store Velcro sanding disc holder). I also have both handheld cordless and corded drills, but I find the weight unwieldy. So far, I haven't turned anything bigger than 12" diameter, so I find the inertia sander, combined with a bit of elbow grease works just fine.

At the Pittsburgh symposium just a few months ago, I bought another disc holder pad from both Vince's and from Ken Rizza (Woodturners Wonders), and several feet of Abranet in assorted grits from Steve's (turningwood.com). The intention is to use the abranet with elbow grease (not to be confused with turner's elbow; please don't ask me how I know about turner's elbow--almost always the right elbow).

I don't get an endorsement compensation, but I am happy with all these products, and the gentlemen who sell them.

Hy
 
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I have a bunch of baggies of blue discs from Vince's and a homemade inertia sander (using the magnetic ball bushing from Eddie Castelin and a Napa auto parts store Velcro sanding disc holder). I also have both handheld cordless and corded drills, but I find the weight unwieldy. So far, I haven't turned anything bigger than 12" diameter, so I find the inertia sander, combined with a bit of elbow grease works just fine.

At the Pittsburgh symposium just a few months ago, I bought another disc holder pad from both Vince's and from Ken Rizza (Woodturners Wonders), and several feet of Abranet in assorted grits from Steve's (turningwood.com). The intention is to use the abranet with elbow grease (not to be confused with turner's elbow; please don't ask me how I know about turner's elbow--almost always the right elbow).

I don't get an endorsement compensation, but I am happy with all these products, and the gentlemen who sell them.

Hy

Thanks, Hy, I'm enjoying Southern California desert weather this week, but will be ordering stuff soon. I'm thrilled (not really an overstatement) about the rolled Abranet. And Vince's reputation convinces me that's the place to start for discs. If I don't fall asleep after going out to dinner with the family tonight, I'll re-visit his web site. :D I do plan to avoid turner's elbow -- have had enough orthopedic surgeries for this lifetime!:p
 

Bill Boehme

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Turner's elbow doesn't respond to orthopedic surgery as far as I know. But a tetanus shot is advisable :p

I don't know what turner's elbow is, but I assume that you mean some sort of tendinopathy which is an inflammation from repetitive motion, excessive strain, and dare I mention weakening tendons due to ... aging. These type of injuries respond well to physical therapy, rest, and ibuprofen or naproxen although the healing process is slow ... I know from experience. Unless there is some sort of severe injury that actually breaks tendons, there wouldn't be anything that surgery could repair.

As far as getting a tetanus shot goes, I get a booster shot every five years. I'm always getting cuts on my hands from something like splinters or checking tool edges for sharpness. :rolleyes: Gotta quit doing that.
 
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Power sander

Not what you asked, but had to share. I had my 55 degree sander burn up the bering and was looking for a new option (with bering in something other than plastic housing) . I remembered that I have a Ridgid Job Max (battery op) and looked up options. I already had a right angle impact driver attachment. Thought on getting second battery. When looking at ebay found a corded unit much cheaper than a battery. This tool is also available in pneumatic version. Just got the electric for $22 plus shipping this week. Tried it yesterday on the outside of a bowl and it works very well. Read something in a review about speed of the tool only 550, but info on new says 0-20,000 . Trigger is easily controllable and hand does not cover any vents.

Not Sure of the weight as the impact driver shows 2.4 pound and then hand held unit is either 2.1 or 5 , I think 2.1 is correct guess these website descriptions cannot be relied on.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-JobMax-3-Amp-Multi-Tool-Starter-Kit-R28600/202672276
 

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I've been using a standard Dewalt 3/8" drill for many years. It's not a one handed affair like the angled drills but I find I have much more control using both hands with my elbows next to my body. A lot less strain on my wrists which like many of you are starting to have tendonitis and arthitis and all the other itis things. I burned through a dozen cheap Black and Deckers drills before I bought the Dewalt which at the time was $64. Best money I ever spent. It's Keyless so I can change my sanding mandrels in seconds. I went to a sanding mandrel for each grit which not only makes it very fast but I can't remember the last time I had to change the velcro.
 

john lucas

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Forgot to add. I keep a file card, and brass brush handy as well as a crepe sanding disc cleaner. When sanding green wood or wood that has resin the discs clog up really fast. I simply hold the disc against the file card ( a metal brush with really short bristles used to clean metal working files) and it's almost as good as new. Sometimes the brass brush works just as well and isn't quite as hard on the discs which will of course wear out eventually. I try not to over use any disc of course because you want quality sanding but I find this works really well and does save me money. I will use Abranet on green wood but it's quite a bit more expensive than Vince's blue discs.
 
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Forgot to add. I keep a file card, and brass brush handy as well as a crepe sanding disc cleaner. When sanding green wood or wood that has resin the discs clog up really fast. I simply hold the disc against the file card ( a metal brush with really short bristles used to clean metal working files) and it's almost as good as new. Sometimes the brass brush works just as well and isn't quite as hard on the discs which will of course wear out eventually. I try not to over use any disc of course because you want quality sanding but I find this works really well and does save me money. I will use Abranet on green wood but it's quite a bit more expensive than Vince's blue discs.

Thanks, John, I'll check out the file cards. I could use them for the pile of metal-working files we have too! Yes, Abranet is a little pricey, especially when bought in small amounts, but it lasts so much longer than regular sandpaper! I just haven't determined whether the coarse pieces leave deeper lines on the stock than the standard paper.
 
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Wrist and hand problems

I've been using a standard Dewalt 3/8" drill for many years. It's not a one handed affair like the angled drills but I find I have much more control using both hands with my elbows next to my body. A lot less strain on my wrists which like many of you are starting to have tendonitis and arthitis and all the other itis things. I burned through a dozen cheap Black and Deckers drills before I bought the Dewalt which at the time was $64. Best money I ever spent. It's Keyless so I can change my sanding mandrels in seconds. I went to a sanding mandrel for each grit which not only makes it very fast but I can't remember the last time I had to change the velcro.

I may go this direction if the cheapo angled drill goes belly up quickly. I have a wealth of experience with wrist tendinitis (and carpal tunnel). A couple of thoughts for everyone to keep in mind:
  • If your wrists and hands tend to ache after a turning session, ice them right away to reduce the inflammation. Inflammation tends to build on itself, so it's important not to wait. We have well water, so I can actually just run the cold water over my wrists for 3 or 4 minutes and it really helps. Longer would be better. A bag of frozen black-eyed peas or regular peas works great!
  • It's tempting to self-diagnose arthritis, especially in the wrists, hands and fingers. If anyone thinks they have arthritis, it's best to get a confirmation (or not) from a doctor (blood test, x-rays). Why? Because arthritis is helped by movement of the joints. Tendinitis can feel like arthritis, and yet is made much worse by continuing the repetitive motion that caused it in the first place.
  • Some arm and hand difficulties actually have their origins in the upper back -- how we use the muscles of the shoulder, around the shoulder blade, and the thoracic spine area. Keeping those areas strong and moving correctly is important to using the arm and hands efficiently.

[sliding soap-box out the door.......:)]
 
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