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CBN Wheel vs. Jet wet wheel?

Mark Hepburn

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I’m using a Jet 10†150 RPM wet grinder and hate the mess, even after modifying the water basin because it just runs down the tool handle.

I contacted Dave at D-Way and he said that quite a few people he knew were using the CBN wheel on this grinder with success. I do like the slow speed because I’m not much of a sharpener, and as a newbie turner/sharpener I use jigs for most things.

But having re-read some of the posts here, I’m wondering if I should just lose the leather hone on the left, put the CBN wheel on the left and keep the original Jet wheel with the water basin? Is there a benefit to having both the CBN and the wet wheel? If not, then I’ll probably post the wheel in Want-Ads really cheap so it can be put to good use by someone.

So I guess the main thing I’m asking is, what would you do in my situation?

Thanks to all for your thoughts.
 

hockenbery

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Mark,
Sharpening is the area of woodturning where you will find the most divergence and lack of clear consensus among the experts.

Few people use the slow wet wheels for any tools other than a skew. If you are primarily a spindle turner, stay with the wet wheel and honing between trips to the grinder.
Most turners are using something like 8" Norton 3x wheels k hardness 60-80 grit for sharpening bowl gouges
Some prefer 100 grit wheels

There is a group of devotees to the CBN wheels
promotion of the CBN among the top turners seems to be strongest among those with a financial interest and those who add a lot of spindle details like finials to their work. Some owners of CBN wheels may have lost their objectivity along with the $200-250 they spent.

A lot of folks are buying CBN wheels. They will leave a sharp edge.
Few people will ever see a cost benefit to buying a CBN wheel.
With the CBN you will want a complimenting shaping wheel like a 40 grit Norton 3x

My suggestion to bowl& hollow form turners would be to get a 1750 grinder, woulverine, and Norton 3x wheels.
Just like your wet wheel the norton wheels need to be tired and leveled periodically. Many people see a marked improvement with CBN Wheels because they never properly dressed their wheels.

You might contact Don Geiger, or Kirk DeHeer at craft supplies. These are two leading experts on sharpening who don't have a direct interest in selling CBN wheels.
 
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john lucas

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I'm still experimenting with the CBN wheel. I don't sell them so have no financial dealings. It is an interesting wheel. I do like the edge I get from my 180 grit wheel. I is perfectly balanced and never needs truing. It does remove metal faster than you think and I believe I'm actually using metal faster than I was with my 100 grit white AO wheel. I grind very lightly so I was a little surprised about that and I'm still experimenting to see if it's true.
Back to your question. I'm not a wet wheel fan for lathe tools. It does give a very good edge. I have the Tormek and don't have the water running down problem you have. It's just a hassle for me trying to keep water handy since I dont have running water in the shop and don't feel like pouring water in every time I want to use the lathe and sharpen. I use the Tormek to sharpen plane and chisel blades and don't want to groove it with turning tools. Still I'm experimenting with it to try and learn the differences.
Would it be a good option for your grinder. I don't know. It would work and you will probably enjoy it. It's a lot of money and if money isn't an issue I would try it. You can always go back, buy a different insert and use it on a real grinder if you don't like it on the Jet.
Most turners will get buy quite well with a White, Blue or pink wheel on a grinder if they learn how to properly balance and keep it true. they run about $30 and last a pretty good while. the newer CBN wheels sell for about $124 and others around $200. I haven't looked into the quality differences yet. You can quite a few grinding wheels for $200.
Still I do like the CBN wheel and use it every day so you may really find it a good combination for the Jet.
 

Bill Boehme

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I agree with what Al and John said. I have a Tormek and a dry grinder with Norton 3X wheels. I am thinking about getting a CBN wheel. For me the advantage of a CBN wheel is not financial since I am not a professional turner -- I see the advantage being that it does not fill the air with grit when I sharpen a tool. The white aluminum oxide wheels are horrible about shedding grit. The Norton 3X wheels are a bit better. However, both cause me to have coughing spasms from all the dust that stays suspended in the air. For that reason, I primarily use my Tormek for sharpening. It is nearly as fast as using a dry grinder and there is no cloud of stuff in the air. The Tormek does not have the problem that you described with the Jet.

I bought my Tormek long before woodturning ever appeared on my radar so it was natural for me to use it for sharpening woodturning tools after I had problems with dust from the dry grinder. There is a downside to sharpening round tools on the Tormek wheel. As John said, it creates grooves that then become a problem when sharpening tools like plane irons, chisels, jointer blades, and planar blades. I might get separate stones for flat tools and round tools or I might get a CBN wheel for my dry grinder. If I had a CBN wheel I wouldn't put it on my Tormek.
 
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Mark, I had a Delta wet-wheel and disliked the mess, so I usually used the regular grinder with the friable wheels.
One day we took a class from Eli Avisera, shortly after D-way started selling CBN wheels. Eli stated "Dave has changed sharpening, forever"

At one point the wife walked over to sharpen a chisel, as she walked back she stopped at my lathe and said "As soon as we can afford it, we are getting a CBN wheel"

I sold the Delta on Craigs list for enough to buy a CBN for the regular grinder.

On the grinder we have a CBN we use almost every day, and a friable that neither has used in months.

I put a couple rare-earth magnets (in small zip-locks) under the CBN and collect most of the metal shavings.

Between the CBN wheel and Reed Gray's Robo-Rest the wife does all her own sharpening now.
 
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I prefer the CBN wheels because there is almost zero maintenance with them. Mine do get slop on them from the wet wood I turn, but using a scraper cleans most of it off. Some times I will take them off and take to the sink and hit them with some Ajax and a plastic scrub brush. My Tormek only gets used for my kitchen knives. The CBN are too aggressive for that.

Craft Supplies does carry a CBN wheel now, a 1 inch wide version of the Optigrind that they are selling under their house brand 'Raptor' name.

I can not think of one single advantage the standard wheels have over the CBN wheels. Not even cost if you consider value.

robo hippy
 

Mark Hepburn

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Thanks everyone.

It seems that the consensus is that nobody really uses their wet grinders or slow speed sharpening systems much other than for non-turning. And since I already bought the CBN wheel from Dave at D-Way, I'd be better off getting a 1750 grinder or similar and putting the wheel on that. I do have the Wolverine system and also the Ellsworth jig for my bowl gouge, so I can use them on this grinder for tool shaping and such, and if I can stand the mess then use the Jet if I want to put a very fine edge on a tool?

One other thing is that the wheel is a 10" and it seems that 8" is the gold standard and probably better for my Ellsworth jig; I had to fab a little riser block and modified my Wolverine tool rest to accept it to get the angle for the Ellsworth grind.

I do like the "no maintenance" aspect of the CBN wheel, but the Jet hasn't been too bad aside from the mess. The wheel needs pretty frequent dressing/truing but I'm never really in a hurry.

I hone pretty often at the lathe with some of the Henry Taylor slipstones, by the way.

And since my interest is mainly bowls and not spindles (but maybe an occasional finial for a lidded box) then I probably have little to no use for the Jet?

So am I even close here to what I'm reading or am I dumb as a stick? Well, yes, I am, but that's a whole new thread :D
 
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Bill Boehme

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If you can modify the Jet wet sharpener by moving the tool bar higher then it might work more satisfactory for putting a final edge on skew chisels if doing delicate finials. On the Tormek, the tool rest is high enough that the tool being sharpened is angled with the handle higher than the cutting edge which means that any water will drain towards the wheel rather than the other way. I get the impression that the Jet design overlooked that important detail. For all other things I think that the dry grinder might be your best option. And because of the problem of breathing grit from the grinder, I would recommend the CBN wheel. From my very limited use of a CBN wheel I would agree with John Lucas that it is probably removing more metal than the other options.
 

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Can't say about the CBN wheels. Generally, those who have them feel they are worth getting......

I had a 10" wet grinder that I believe I started using at about the same time I got my Grizzly 16" band saw.....in the late 1980's. It will sharpen a gouge very nicely, but is very slow. No water running down problems if the rest is high enough to keep the tool level, or butt higher than the tool steel. After it set idle for the past 7-8 years taking up room on the shelf, I sold this wet grinder about a year ago. I will not be going back to wet grinding for lathe tools.

Went directly from white wheels to the Norton 80gt SG wheels......never have used the 3x. I can say that the SG wheels wear extremely slowly, and depending on technique, seldom need dressing. The cut fast and heat is minimal. The SG wheels continually break down, exposing new abrasive. Despite the price, I intend to continue using the SG wheels, because the results I'm getting are superb.

ooc
 

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Mark Hepburn

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If you can modify the Jet wet sharpener by moving the tool bar higher then it might work more satisfactory for putting a final edge on skew chisels if doing delicate finials. On the Tormek, the tool rest is high enough that the tool being sharpened is angled with the handle higher than the cutting edge which means that any water will drain towards the wheel rather than the other way. I get the impression that the Jet design overlooked that important detail. For all other things I think that the dry grinder might be your best option. And because of the problem of breathing grit from the grinder, I would recommend the CBN wheel. From my very limited use of a CBN wheel I would agree with John Lucas that it is probably removing more metal than the other options.

Thanks Bill. I can adjust the tool bar higher on the Jet. And breathing grit is a big deal for me. I'm an ex-smoker (25 years now) but my dad died last year of lung cancer so I'm taking lung care pretty seriously.

Amazon has a huge variety of grinders with lots of reviews - many from woodworkers - and I'll probably get one there. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't see the need for a variable speed if I'm going to keep the Jet for other use, or should I consider a VS grinder? Wheel quality isn't an issue since I'll be swapping one for my CBN...

So about those magnets for particles. I have a slew of neodymium magnets but the question is how to mount them so as to maximize the particle pickup?
 

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Thanks everyone. am I even close here to what I'm reading or am I dumb as a stick? Well, yes, I am, but that's a whole new thread :D
Only if the rest of us a dumber than a box of rocks.

I have a tormek. I used it some and went back to the dry grinder. My wife used it for a couple of years and then switched over to the dry grinder.
One of my good spindle turning friend uses a wet grinder almost exclusively.
Nothing beats a tormek for sharpening skews, planner blades and jointer knives.

Al
 

Bill Boehme

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Mark, you can get dry grinders that run at 1750 RPM or 3550 RPM. The consensus among woodturners is to get the 1750 RPM type. Also make sure that it uses the 8" wheels and not the 6" wheels. Most are rated at 1/2 to 3/4 horsepower. Either will do fine since you won't be loading the motor down. Woodcraft has one that they put on sale frequently for about $90.
 

Mark Hepburn

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Mark, you can get dry grinders that run at 1750 RPM or 3550 RPM. The consensus among woodturners is to get the 1750 RPM type. Also make sure that it uses the 8" wheels and not the 6" wheels. Most are rated at 1/2 to 3/4 horsepower. Either will do fine since you won't be loading the motor down. Woodcraft has one that they put on sale frequently for about $90.

Bill, just went there but it's not on sale right now. But I've seen a bunch at amazon with good reviews including a Rikon with excellent reviews, most of which were by woodturners. 1725 rpm and AO wheels. Anyone have an opinion on Rikon? I have no experience at all.
 

Mark Hepburn

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Mark, I had a Delta wet-wheel and disliked the mess, so I usually used the regular grinder with the friable wheels.
One day we took a class from Eli Avisera, shortly after D-way started selling CBN wheels. Eli stated "Dave has changed sharpening, forever"

At one point the wife walked over to sharpen a chisel, as she walked back she stopped at my lathe and said "As soon as we can afford it, we are getting a CBN wheel"

I sold the Delta on Craigs list for enough to buy a CBN for the regular grinder.

On the grinder we have a CBN we use almost every day, and a friable that neither has used in months.

I put a couple rare-earth magnets (in small zip-locks) under the CBN and collect most of the metal shavings.

Between the CBN wheel and Reed Gray's Robo-Rest the wife does all her own sharpening now.

Sounds like I'm in the same boat you were. So do you just lay the bag with magnets under the wheel? He effective is it at pickup?
 

Mark Hepburn

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Can't say about the CBN wheels. Generally, those who have them feel they are worth getting......

I had a 10" wet grinder that I believe I started using at about the same time I got my Grizzly 16" band saw.....in the late 1980's. It will sharpen a gouge very nicely, but is very slow. No water running down problems if the rest is high enough to keep the tool level, or butt higher than the tool steel. After it set idle for the past 7-8 years taking up room on the shelf, I sold this wet grinder about a year ago. I will not be going back to wet grinding for lathe tools.

Went directly from white wheels to the Norton 80gt SG wheels......never have used the 3x. I can say that the SG wheels wear extremely slowly, and depending on technique, seldom need dressing. The cut fast and heat is minimal. The SG wheels continually break down, exposing new abrasive. Despite the price, I intend to continue using the SG wheels, because the results I'm getting are superb.

ooc

Odie, I got the Jet because I've never been a tool sharpener other than my work knives and didn't mind the time. But after spending about an hour putting a curve in a skew I realize that turning is a skill I'll need to develop. Those SG wheels, are they ceramic? I went to Nortons web site and looked at them. I have some ceramic kitchen knives and they are excellent.
 

odie

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Odie, I got the Jet because I've never been a tool sharpener other than my work knives and didn't mind the time. But after spending about an hour putting a curve in a skew I realize that turning is a skill I'll need to develop. Those SG wheels, are they ceramic? I went to Nortons web site and looked at them. I have some ceramic kitchen knives and they are excellent.

Hi Mark.......

I bought my SG wheels from CSUSA, and I see they are no longer available from them. I see Packard has them, and there is a little bit of information on these wheels on their site, click here:

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=sharp-sg

I really can't say how these SG wheels compare to the 3x wheels, but I'm so thrilled with them that I wouldn't be satisfied with anything less than the performance I've become accustomed to.....fast cutting, and not much heat. I also hone both inside flute and bevel side several times before returning to the grinder, so that has some influence on my thinking, as well.....

ooc
 
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I have a plywood back stop behind my wheels. I just sweep the steel dust off into the shavings. I do keep my wheel guards on. I saw one turner some where who had removed his guards and he hung a magnet about 8 inches over the grinder. It was picking up some filings. I doubt that they would do a lot of damage, but I think I will keep the guards on.

Oh yea, for you tool junkies out there, besides me...

http://www.cuttermasters.com/portfolio/tradesman-dc/

robo hippy
 

Mark Hepburn

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Must. Have. Tradesman.

:D
That's is one nice tool.

Seriously, if I were to decide to buy a better grinder but not sacrifice my firstborn son, any recommendations?
 
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The 1/2 hp Rikon 8 inch slow speed grinder that Woodcraft is now carrying looks pretty good. It does purr. I think they are in the $100 range, but that may only be 'on sale'.

robo hippy
 

Mark Hepburn

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The 1/2 hp Rikon 8 inch slow speed grinder that Woodcraft is now carrying looks pretty good. It does purr. I think they are in the $100 range, but that may only be 'on sale'.

robo hippy

Thank you. I just checked and it's $140, but great reviews on it. That's still reasonable I think.
 

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I've been through most of these. Would recommend a slow speed grinder with Camel Red wheels for the low cost, and Oneway blue wheels for medium cost. Tried a couple lower cost Nortons but they were horrible in wear (not the SGs or 3X). Not that much difference really, but to some, maybe big in the wheel cost. You can use a 120 or greater anywhere you use an 80 grit, just takes more time if you are changing the angle and more cost because you are using more of the wheel.
Bought a Tormek years ago (or any other wet grinder) and determined I can make the same angles on it just takes longer and on a high grit wheel, takes more of the wheel. If you have a bunch of gouges and only sharpen as a matter of reloading the quiver of gouges, probably doesn't matter because it is only non-turning time involved. If you only have a few gouges and you are sharpening between turning, the opposite is true.
With harder steels (M3/4 V10/15) it gets worse because of the hardness.
What a CBN wheel really does is allow you to reshape with less issues of the wheel wear and wheel dust. Both are issues for different reasons and you need to weight the cost of the results for your individual results.
Eventually, i with a slow speed grinder and CBN wheels and the Tormek sits in the corner waiting for me to do something with it.
 

Mark Hepburn

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I've been through most of these. Would recommend a slow speed grinder with Camel Red wheels for the low cost, and Oneway blue wheels for medium cost. Tried a couple lower cost Nortons but they were horrible in wear (not the SGs or 3X). Not that much difference really, but to some, maybe big in the wheel cost. You can use a 120 or greater anywhere you use an 80 grit, just takes more time if you are changing the angle and more cost because you are using more of the wheel.
Bought a Tormek years ago (or any other wet grinder) and determined I can make the same angles on it just takes longer and on a high grit wheel, takes more of the wheel. If you have a bunch of gouges and only sharpen as a matter of reloading the quiver of gouges, probably doesn't matter because it is only non-turning time involved. If you only have a few gouges and you are sharpening between turning, the opposite is true.
With harder steels (M3/4 V10/15) it gets worse because of the hardness.
What a CBN wheel really does is allow you to reshape with less issues of the wheel wear and wheel dust. Both are issues for different reasons and you need to weight the cost of the results for your individual results.
Eventually, i with a slow speed grinder and CBN wheels and the Tormek sits in the corner waiting for me to do something with it.

Thanks Steve. I'm shopping for a slow speed grinder. Already have the CBN wheel and I'll probably let the Jet gather dust or maybe sell it.
 
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I use the Rikon 8" slow speed grinder from Woodcraft, in combination with the CBN
cannot say enough how much the quality of edge has improved and sharpening much easier and smoother.
 

Mark Hepburn

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I use the Rikon 8" slow speed grinder from Woodcraft, in combination with the CBN
cannot say enough how much the quality of edge has improved and sharpening much easier and smoother.

Jerry,

I was looking at that same grinder on Amazon. I don't have any experience with Rikon but have ruled out quite a few other "brand names" including Delta. So are you happy with the grinder itself? Any regrets?

Robo Hippy mentioned that Woodcraft also has a grinder (I guess the Wood River house brand) that sometimes goes on sale for about $100. I don't mind spending another $40 for a grinder that I'll be happy with.
 
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Mark, I have the exact same grinder robo was talking about, and yessir quite happy with it
I got mine with the Wolverine Sharpening system, but was on sale at time of purchase.
Some days, and with some woods, and I am at grinder every 4-5 minutes resharpening, the Rikon keeps up just fine.
As with anything, you get what you pay for, and I believe the $140 you spend now will save you $ later ;-)

The CBN you have, does it have a 1" hole, or a 5/8" hole? the Rikon is 1" so if you get it, you might need adapter for your CBN if not 1" ......

The Rikon usually goes on sale @ Woodcraft every 2 months or so..........
 

Mark Hepburn

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Mark, I have the exact same grinder robo was talking about, and yessir quite happy with it
I got mine with the Wolverine Sharpening system, but was on sale at time of purchase.
Some days, and with some woods, and I am at grinder every 4-5 minutes resharpening, the Rikon keeps up just fine.
As with anything, you get what you pay for, and I believe the $140 you spend now will save you $ later ;-)

The CBN you have, does it have a 1" hole, or a 5/8" hole? the Rikon is 1" so if you get it, you might need adapter for your CBN if not 1" ......

The Rikon usually goes on sale @ Woodcraft every 2 months or so..........


That's good to know. I'm going to order it. Probably sell my Jet wet grinder since the consensus seems to be that it'll be a paper weight.

The wheel is a D-way wheel, 1 1/2 " with a 1" hole, but I bought the bushing so it would fit on my Jet. Probably will keep the bushing just in case. And thanks.
 
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Decision made

This thread has been awesome. I've only been turning for two years and now I'm setting up a home workshop. Choosing a grinder has been problematic. Reading online reviews is a bit of a waste of time. They lead you everywhere. One of the things I like about the AAW forum is its a genuine place (OK maybe somebody has a bias or self interest but they usually disclose) full of brothers and sisters in turning who are eager to help and share their experiences.

My grinding skills need a lot of work. Also I'm not much of a mechanic so the stories of Chinese product that buyers had to fix scared me because I doubt I could have diagnosed and fixed the issues. So I decided to buy my way out of the problem by buying quality. Chose Tormek T7 because it has consistent high quality and is grinding for dummies with its jigs. Then I realized I would need the Woodturners' Kit in addition to the basic machine and that added $425 (all numbers Canadian, multiply by 70-75% if you're in the US) to $699 and that caused me to gag. Back to the drawing board. Read a lot more about wet/dry wheels, RPM and wheel/jig choices. This thread turned the light on and I've decided to go with the Rikon 80-805 and I'll add the tool rests/jigs to help with the angles and consistency. Running water is right there in the room.

Thanks everybody for this sudden surge of clarity.

BTW, I'm not sure how this happened but I've tentatively decided on four Rikon products. I know guys who have Rikon and are happy and the prices are competitive. Think I'm going with the 70-220VSR lathe, the 50-120 belt/disc sander and the 10-325 band saw. All my turning and cutting to date has been winters in Arizona on Jet products, so I know and like them. They aren't sold in Canada :-(

Any comments about these choices would be welcome.

Paul
 
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Should have mentioned

You can buy Tormek jigs now for competitors' grinders. Apparently the Swedes figured out that a lot of people were roughing with high speed dry grinders to get them close and then finishing them with the very slow, wet Tormek grinders. The Tormek jigs looked very appealing.
 

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Most likely in the long run you will be happier with the Rikon grinder.

We have a tormek that mostly gathers dust unless I need to sharpen planner blades.
It is a fantastic system but most woodturners migrate to an 8" dry grinder like the Rikon.
Because the ease of use and quick set up.

Don Geiger had a lot of cool grinder add ons at the Florida Symposium -
platforms, jigs, terrific wheel dresser, vertical solution pro sharp spectrum ( a marvelous gadget that has a lot of versatility to aid in sharpening just about any turning tool.
The set ups are built into the device.

http://m.geigerssolutions.com/Products.html

Have fun,
Al
 
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This thread is 2 years old... There are now 1000 grit CBN wheels for the Tormek, and 600 grit wheels for standard grinders. Rikon now has a 1 hp grinder which will handle the steel CBN wheels easily where the smaller 1/2 hp Rikon struggled a bit, but seems to do the job.

robo hippy
 

Bill Boehme

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This thread is 2 years old... There are now 1000 grit CBN wheels for the Tormek, and 600 grit wheels for standard grinders. Rikon now has a 1 hp grinder which will handle the steel CBN wheels easily where the smaller 1/2 hp Rikon struggled a bit, but seems to do the job.

robo hippy

I don't recall who sells them, but there is an aluminum CBN wheel for the Tormek. This means that you could run it in the water bath if you wanted to do so. I took my Tormek to the last club meeting and showed how to sharpen bowl gouges for those who were interested during our "open shop" time before the regular meeting. A few members commented that the Tormek is too slow ... perhaps just repeating what they heard from others. I showed how I sharpen bowl gouges ... and it was just as fast as anybody who used a dry grinder and jig. I've been using my Tormek for about 17 years, but I don't think that matters ... it isn't at all difficult. One new turner in the club who was using his Tormek to sharpen lathe tools said it took him forever to sharpen his tools. I suspect that he was grinding away more metal than necessary from not taking the time to get the bevel to match the wheel.

There is one tool that is deadly slow to sharpen on the Tormek standard wheel ... the dreaded skew. If I used it more than I currently do then there might be reason to use the dry grinder.
 
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I don't recall who sells them, but there is an aluminum CBN wheel for the Tormek. This means that you could run it in the water bath if you wanted to do so. I took my Tormek to the last club meeting and showed how to sharpen bowl gouges for those who were interested during our "open shop" time before the regular meeting. A few members commented that the Tormek is too slow ... perhaps just repeating what they heard from others. I showed how I sharpen bowl gouges ... and it was just as fast as anybody who used a dry grinder and jig. I've been using my Tormek for about 17 years, but I don't think that matters ... it isn't at all difficult. One new turner in the club who was using his Tormek to sharpen lathe tools said it took him forever to sharpen his tools. I suspect that he was grinding away more metal than necessary from not taking the time to get the bevel to match the wheel.

There is one tool that is deadly slow to sharpen on the Tormek standard wheel ... the dreaded skew. If I used it more than I currently do then there might be reason to use the dry grinder.

Bill Wood Turners Wonders has the Tormek CBN wheels. All grits up to 1200.
 

hockenbery

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I don't recall who sells them, but there is an aluminum CBN wheel for the Tormek. This means that you could run it in the water bath if you wanted to do so. I took my Tormek to the last club meeting and showed how to sharpen bowl gouges for those who were interested during our "open shop" time before the regular meeting. A few members commented that the Tormek is too slow ... perhaps just repeating what they heard from others. I showed how I sharpen bowl gouges ... and it was just as fast as anybody who used a dry grinder and jig. I've been using my Tormek for about 17 years, but I don't think that matters ... it isn't at all difficult. One new turner in the club who was using his Tormek to sharpen lathe tools said it took him forever to sharpen his tools. I suspect that he was grinding away more metal than necessary from not taking the time to get the bevel to match the wheel. There is one tool that is deadly slow to sharpen on the Tormek standard wheel ... the dreaded skew. If I used it more than I currently do then there might be reason to use the dry grinder.

If I am doing a lot of spindle turning I will drag the tormek out just for the skews.
The wheel edge and the strop wheel do a fine job and the strop is like power honing.

I never have to empty, clean, and refill the water tub on my dry grinder and that takes time.....

Al
 

Bill Boehme

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If I am doing a lot of spindle turning I will drag the tormek out just for the skews.
The wheel edge and the strop wheel do a fine job and the strop is like power honing.

I never have to empty, clean, and refill the water tub on my dry grinder and that takes time.....

Al

Several years ago when Nick Cook was at our club for a week of conducting classes, he noticed the razor edge on my oval skew and asked if I used a Tormek. When I confessed that I did, he said that is the best way to get a skew as sharp as it ought to be, but when he is teaching classes, he knows that very few turners use the Tormek so he teaches sharpening on what people use ... the dry grinder.

I took a test drive using a CBN wheel on a dry grinder to sharpen a skew and I was very impressed ... it was very close to using a Tormek.

Here is how much time messing with the water trough takes me: Usually once a day I top it off using a gallon Gatorade jug (with water, not Gatorade in it). The water jug sits on the floor next to the Tormek -- time is 15 seconds if I lollygag. About once a week I will take the water tray off and carry it to the back yard, lay it on the grass, pick up the water hose and blast it with the high pressure nozzle. Then I dry the exterior with a paper towel before reinstalling and filling with water -- time is three to fifteen minutes depending on whether I stop to brush the cat or talk to the neighbor. Usually I do this on a day when I am just cleaning up the garage and not turning. Generally when I am turning I have about a half dozen bowl gouges on the tailgate of my truck (AKA tool rack) and never have a need to stop and sharpen them unless I am dealing with some really hard wood. Anyway, I'm not in a race with time when turning. I typically spend more time thinking and scratching than turning.
 

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I guess I'm still not used to the Tormek. I've had it while and just don't use it for turning tools. I use the strop to hit my skew every now and then. I haven't set up jigs for the skew yet on that machine so it's still much faster for me to simply hit the skews with my diamond hones by hand. I don't have running water in the shop and just never got in the habit of filling the Tormek. When I do I have to fill it, let it run, fill it again, let it run, fill it again. Takes several minutes to get the wheel to stop absorbing water.
I tend to use the same 4 or five tools (not all bowl gouges) all the time and it's just faster for me to change out the tool rest or V arm to sharpen those tools on my dry grinder.
 

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We found the little water holder on the Tormek would collect wood chips and needed to be cleaned several times a day if it was anywhere close to the lathe.
I also, perhaps wrongly, thought it was bad to leave the stone in water overnight.

A memorable moment occurred at a woodworking show. I asked the Tormek guy to show me how to use the Tormek jig for the Ellaworth grind. I handed him my bowl gouge. while my tool was in his hand Tormek guy answered another customer's question. To my astonishment he said something like:

Only a Tormek could produce an edge of this quality while pointing to the edge of my tool sharpened on an 8" dry wheel.

I stifled my laugh and he eventually failed at reproducing the Ellsworth grind.
 
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Both Dave Schweitzer of D Way and Ken Rizza of Wood Turning Wonders sell 10 inch wheels for the Tormek and other wet wheel systems. Ken's are on aluminum hubs. The only problem I can see with sharpening a skew on the Tormek is setting the angle. This system is for fine finishing type sharpening, not reshaping. If the poor Tormek guy had to reshape your swept back grind at all, it would take all day... I do sharpen my skews by hand on a platform. If you use the platform on a Tormek, and are off by 1/2 a degree on you angle, you have to reshape, well, unless you are using the convex grind like Eli Avisera. If I could figure a way to use my robo rest on a Tormek, then that problem would be greatly reduced. I have set up the platform on my Tormek to sharpen gouges, and it works, and I have been able to do swept back profiles, but I think most of that is from a lot of practice platform sharpening with my standard grinder and CBN wheels. The 600 grit CBN seems to make minimal difference in cutting on my gouges, but more testing is needed. The edge does not seem to last as long. More testing to come when I get the 1000 grit CBN wheel from Ken. Curiosity is expensive, but some one has to do the experimenting....

The CBN wheels will still produce dust on the Tormek, and it will float around the shop. Not sure if an oil bath would help or not.

robo hippy
 
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Bill Boehme

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I guess I'm still not used to the Tormek. I've had it while and just don't use it for turning tools. I use the strop to hit my skew every now and then. I haven't set up jigs for the skew yet on that machine so it's still much faster for me to simply hit the skews with my diamond hones by hand. I don't have running water in the shop and just never got in the habit of filling the Tormek. When I do I have to fill it, let it run, fill it again, let it run, fill it again. Takes several minutes to get the wheel to stop absorbing water.
I tend to use the same 4 or five tools (not all bowl gouges) all the time and it's just faster for me to change out the tool rest or V arm to sharpen those tools on my dry grinder.

Having running water in the shop is of no consequence either way. I don't have running water either, but my gallon jug is good for a couple weeks as long as I don't need to clean the tray. I pour water in the tray while the machine is running and then let it run for a couple minutes and top it off if necessary as the machine continues to run. The topping off is needed to take care of water absorbed into the wheel. It sounds like you may be doing things the hard way. Also, if you only use the Tormek once in a while then the wheel will get completely dry and is a lot thirstier than a wheel that gets regular use. Sometimes I don't bother lowering the tray if I will be turning the next day so the wheel stays hydrated overnight.

As far as sharpening jigs are concerned, different types of tools have different types of jigs ... just as would be the case for a dry grinder. There is a jig for gouges, another for skews, and the platform for scrapers. I use two different grinds for most of my bowl gouges, so I gave myself the luxury of getting two bowl gouge jigs.

My one criticism of the Tormek is the unreasonable price tag. Way back last century when I bought mine, the price at a woodworking show was reasonable. When I saw the price recently at my neighborhood Rockler Hardware store, I could hardly believe it and it's not even gold plated. Since I sharpen neanderthal tools as well as planer and jointer blades, it gets more use than just sharpening turning tools.
 
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Anyone tried the 600 grit CBN?

The 600 grit CBN seems to make minimal difference in cutting on my gouges, but more testing is needed. The edge does not seem to last as long. More testing to come when I get the 1000 grit CBN wheel from Ken. Curiosity is expensive, but some one has to do the experimenting....

robo hippy


Hi Robo,

Have you had a chance to spend much time with the 600 grit wheel?

I'm a fan of honing for finish cuts, and I get a better cut after honing with my 800 grit CBN Honestar hand hone. I can only imagine that a 600 grit wheel would do a better job.

If anyone would like to share their results, I'll be in your debt for a while!

Thanks,
Zach
 
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