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Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations - Using Live Video

AlanZ

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I recorded this video during my special interest night session at the 2016 AAW Symposium
Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations - Using Live Video

On AAW's Vimeo channel:
vimeo.com/173931450

View: https://vimeo.com/173931450


On AlanZ's YouTube channel:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnxKFbc0tnk

I hope it inspires you to consider how this kind of capability can help share woodturning demonstrations to audiences that have previously not been well served.

Your comments are welcome... let's get the conversation started!
Alan Z.

----------------------------------------------------
Session description:

Wouldn't it be great if woodturning presenters could do their demonstrations from their own shops with their own tools, and have a live interactive audience participation in a faraway chapter location? No travel time and costs, no equipment packing, and availability of presenters from all over the world. chapters could afford more and varied presentations for their members. Presenters (both experienced and new) could reach a wider audience.
This session covers...
1) How presenters can use the Internet, low-cost computers, webcams, audio, software, and free video feeds to present multi-camera demonstrations.
2) Typical chapter set-ups to make online demonstrations interactive, seeing and taking questions from the audience.
3) Related topics, including rights to record and sending samples to the audience in advance, to pass around.
4) Using the same equipment to record videos that show your work and educate fellow turners.
 

Emiliano Achaval

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The future is here! I would like to say thank you to Alan for taking the the time to teach me and help me set up everything for the remote live interactive demo. I'm now setting up to do better quality youtube and our club videos, as well as demos. I highly recommend watching Alan's video, I didn't go to Atlanta, but I felt I was there watching him.
 

AlanZ

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Thanks all for the kind words about my presentation.

Have any of you begun discussions with your clubs about the possibility of receiving remote demonstrations?
I know that many clubs don't meet in the summer, but I would like to get a sense of what kind of internet connections are available at your club location.

One good benchmark is to bring a computer to the venue, make the best available connection and report the numbers returned by clicking on "begin test" on http://www.speedtest.net

Thanks in advance.
 

Emiliano Achaval

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I was hoping for a better response on this great and wonderful subject. I guess it can be a little intimidating, but let me tell you from experience, every club has at least one member capable of doing this. A question about how to sharpen a skew, for the 100th time, gets more views and responses than this thread talking about amazing technology, the way of the feature.
 

john lucas

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It's very intimidating for those of us who are technically challenged. I spent a rediculous amount of time on the phone yesterday just trying to get something fixed on my remote. Living out in the country where I live where internet is spotty is just one of the challenges. At each club I attend they seem to have problems with some part of the electronics at the start of each demo and that's just trying to use a couple of cameras and monitors to show the demo. Add in trying to get all of that back and forth from the internet and I think your looking at a lot of fiddling. I think it's a good idea just not a headache I need to try. I would have to run at least 150 feet of wire from my house to the shop. Then add in the cost of cameras, gadgets to hold the cameras, etc. More than I'm willing to pay to get started doing demos. I have some sort of knack for computer gear not working for me. Just like yesterday the guy says, push this button and then this one 3 times. I did exactly what he said. Didn't work. He goes, well that always works, let me see if I can find something else. He finally did after a lot more button pushing. I'm just not willing to go through the frustration of that sort of thing happening every time I try to do a demo. I'd have to hire an 10 year old to help set up all the equipment.
We have problems getting people to volunteer for everything in the club especially running the video camera and/or doing the newsletter. Just not that many computer experts I guess, or not that many people willing to help out with the electronic end.
I think it will probably be the way things will go in future and I thank Alan for starting the ball rolling. I just don't think it's up for our clubs yet. Maybe clubs that have more computer geeks.
 

AlanZ

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John,

I don't think that folk are actually technically challenged. They are just technically inexperienced.
For example, anyone who can work out the geometry for a staved gun case (hint hint) or segmented bowl, etc. can handle these kinds of tasks.
It's just that folks aren't used to it yet.

So, given some time, and a gentle guiding hand, even those not brought up with it, even those in remote access areas, can adapt to and use these new fangled computers... and indoor plumbing.
 

Bill Boehme

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.. and indoor plumbing.

What? Surely you jest. :D

I agree that using new technology devices isn't that difficult ... it's just something new to learn. Like anything else there are pros and cons as well as overcoming resistance to change. John does bring up valid points that shouldn't be discounted.
 

AlanZ

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What? Surely you jest. :D

I agree that using new technology devices isn't that difficult ... it's just something new to learn. Like anything else there are pros and cons as well as overcoming resistance to change. John does bring up valid points that shouldn't be discounted.


Bill, I am not discounting John's points at all, and we know each other well enough that I can kid him a bit.

I come back to the point that none of this is brain surgery, and that it is not beyond the capabilities of those who demonstrate woodturning.
 

Emiliano Achaval

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The club's side is very simple. If you can turn on your computer and log on to this forum, then you can do it. I'm working on the set up to be able to do videos, live streaming and demos, I have not spend more than 200$ and I'm almost ready. It's not rocket science. Both ends are very simple. If you figured it out how to use a bowl gouge without catches, you can do it, it's far easier than that.
 
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I really like this concept. With the cost of demonstrators on an upward spiral, this just maybe the answer for small clubs like ours. With many of the local demonstrators asking $200 and up and out of State demonstrators wanting $300+ for a demo and $700+ for an all day workshop plus travel expenses, this maybe the only way that many clubs can continue to have a quality demonstration at every meeting.

I would, however, hate to commit scarce money for start-up only to have the idea of Live Video Demonstrations fizzle out. I read hear where setup is easy, but what about the cost of setup? Will there be enough demonstrators join up like Lyle and Emiliano to justify that cost? And, what might the cost of a Live Video Demonstration cost a club? Any idea of what Lyle charged for his recent Live Video Demonstration? How will we know when new demonstrator come on-line?

Lots of questions? But, a strong interest.
 

AlanZ

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Bill,

I don't know if you got to see my video (link in the first message of this thread). If not, you might want to take a look, as I cover some of these topics.

I point out that there is a chicken and egg scenario. The more demonstrators who can provide remote demonstrations, the more attractive it is for clubs to set up to receive such demos. And the more clubs who can receive demos indicates to demonstrators that perhaps they should set up to give such demonstrations.

Generally, from the club side, there might be very little expense to set up to receive a demo, especially if the club already has and is using a monitor/tv.
There is always a club member who has a notebook computer or tablet that can accept the remote feed and display it on the monitor.
So the "investment" is really making sure there is a good internet connection (perhaps buying an ethernet cable to avoid some wifi issues), and preferably also having a webcam and a microphone so the demonstrator can see/hear the audience.
 

AlanZ

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I forgot to mention that the AAW is working on a registry of demonstrators, and one of the things we will be adding is data about whether a demonstrator can present remotely.
 
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I forgot to mention that the AAW is working on a registry of demonstrators, and one of the things we will be adding is data about whether a demonstrator can present remotely.

Alan I ordered some cable to test thru Vmix and will order web cam to go with our Panasonic video camera. Will have to test internet connection which is usually not too good in the sticks where we meet. Again I appreciate your help.
 
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I really like this concept. With the cost of demonstrators on an upward spiral, this just maybe the answer for small clubs like ours. With many of the local demonstrators asking $200 and up and out of State demonstrators wanting $300+ for a demo and $700+ for an all day workshop plus travel expenses, this maybe the only way that many clubs can continue to have a quality demonstration at every meeting.

I would, however, hate to commit scarce money for start-up only to have the idea of Live Video Demonstrations fizzle out. I read hear where setup is easy, but what about the cost of setup? Will there be enough demonstrators join up like Lyle and Emiliano to justify that cost? And, what might the cost of a Live Video Demonstration cost a club? Any idea of what Lyle charged for his recent Live Video Demonstration? How will we know when new demonstrator come on-line?

Lots of questions? But, a strong interest.
The cost to the club is usually nothing. It is
I really like this concept. With the cost of demonstrators on an upward spiral, this just maybe the answer for small clubs like ours. With many of the local demonstrators asking $200 and up and out of State demonstrators wanting $300+ for a demo and $700+ for an all day workshop plus travel expenses, this maybe the only way that many clubs can continue to have a quality demonstration at every meeting.

I would, however, hate to commit scarce money for start-up only to have the idea of Live Video Demonstrations fizzle out. I read hear where setup is easy, but what about the cost of setup? Will there be enough demonstrators join up like Lyle and Emiliano to justify that cost? And, what might the cost of a Live Video Demonstration cost a club? Any idea of what Lyle charged for his recent Live Video Demonstration? How will we know when new demonstrator come on-line?

Lots of questions? But, a strong interest.

Most clubs will have no or very little cost to get up and running to accept on-line demos. It is possible that some wiring extensions could be needed, at a very small expense. Most clubs have a monitor for their own local demos. All we do is hook up the monitor to a laptop, any borrowed laptop. Even with small clubs that do not have a monitor, the laptop screen will work by itself. Alan and I have a quick checklist to use for getting the club setup, with equipment most clubs already have on hand already. We also do a test run prior to the event date to get comfortable with it. It takes no special computer program or knowledge to accept demos. Have your program chair or club president call me for more details. 231-947-2348
 
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I forgot to mention that the AAW is working on a registry of demonstrators, and one of the things we will be adding is data about whether a demonstrator can present remotely.

Has the information on remote demonstrations been added to the registry yet? Our club has had two online demos so far, one by Lyle Jamieson and one by Mike Mahoney. Both were very good. We'd be interested having additional presentations.
 

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Has the information on remote demonstrations been added to the registry yet? Our club has had two online demos so far, one by Lyle Jamieson and one by Mike Mahoney. Both were very good. We'd be interested having additional presentations.
Hello Peter, take a look at my web site www.hawaiiankoaturner.com there you can see the topics of my demos under the demonstrations tab. Aloha.
 

AlanZ

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Gerald (and others) let me know if you want/need any help with testing or possible configurations.
 
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Gwinnett Woodworkers here in Georgia has done a video presentation with Steve Good, a well known scrollsawer. Everything worked quite well as the club records thier presentations regularly and has a Youtube channel and all the hardware was in place already. They will probably be very enthusiastic about the registry.
 
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Alan we are using the Logitech webcams and vmix with a overhead projector at the school we use and the whole deal has come together very well. i do not think the feed at the school is good enough to do online demo at this time. I may need some advise on testing that connection tho in case.
 

Bill Boehme

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Alan we are using the Logitech webcams and vmix with a overhead projector at the school we use and the whole deal has come together very well. i do not think the feed at the school is good enough to do online demo at this time. I may need some advise on testing that connection tho in case.

I had a similar feeling when our club had a video presentation with Lyle Jamieson last month. The video quality was poor and the frame rate was really low ... maybe 2 or 3 FPS and sometimes less. The audio was OK most of the time, but occasionally was in the mud ... sort of like cell phone quality in a weak signal area. A lot of club members bailed out early. I had to leave before it was over because of back pain. (I had back surgery the previous month.)
 
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A growing number of facilities have been migrating phone systems onto the internet,
this has been slowing the virtual video conferencing sessions where I work. At times
the virtual video sessions will work and other times it buffers, gets choppy and is
very difficult to follow the audio and video portions together.
 
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thought I'd join in this discussion. Our club (Central Arkansas Woodturners) is small (65 members) so live remote demo's are perfect. Prior to this year, we basically used our entire years revenue to get one presenter in for a weekend demo and workshop. We've hosted David Ellsworth, Trent Bosch, Molly Winton, Jimmy Clews and others. To bring them to us in Hot Springs, AR would cost $1500-$2500. But this year we made the switch to using live remotes. AlanZ was our first presenter. He and his wife did a great job. Clearly Alan is on the leading edge with his use of the technology. We hosted Trent Bosch last month (He was great too!) and have Lyle Jameson and Mike Mahoney scheduled. (He is just starting to do these.) Our members are clearly excited by the use of this technology. We will miss the all day workshops, but for our small club this is much better. we'll be able to see half a dozen different presenters each year. My only challenge now is figuring out who else is available to present. I plan on getting Emiliano for mid year, but after him I need to find some others. Hopefully by the time our schedule is open next summer some more presenters will step up.
 

AlanZ

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Dave,

Thanks for the kind words about our demonstration. As you know, I have been mentoring a few notable woodturning demonstrators and clubs about how to facilitate these kinds of demonstrations. It's all about reaching audiences and sharing what we know.
 

AlanZ

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The recording at the beginning of this thread was from the 2016 presentation where I introduced the concept to the AAW members.
Below is a recording of the special interest night panel discussion I hosted at the 2017 AAW Symposium. The participants were folks who are using live video (in demonstrations and other venues) to share woodturning techniques, as well as comments from those who were audience members for such demonstrations.
 
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Do you think it’s possible to have more than one group at multiple locations piggy back on to a remote demonstration? Let’s say for example 26 people in Boston wish to have a remote demonstation with a woodturning professional from Missouri. 5 people from a very small club in Pennsylvania are very interested in the topic and would love to join in at a reasonable cost. Is this possible with the current methodology being used. @AlanZ and @davehu what are you thoughts
 
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hockenbery

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Here is an option for seeing live demos with no way to ask questions.
I did a natural edge crotch demo for the Sarasota Woodturners this March and they streamed it live on YouTube.
Their host Advantage lumber does it as public service and a little bit of advertising. My demo is still out on YouTube.

They have a nice set up a boom mounted camera. Ceiling mounted projector with a screen image about 8 feet high. Great for seeing details. The had an hdmi plug on a column near the lathe for my iPad presentation.
Two little nits:
1. they don’t have a way yet to stream the iPad slides so the first 10 minutes the video shows me holding the iPad while the Sarasota club watches the slides through the projector. The cameraman gets the iPad screen quite well.

2. They have no overhead camera to compliment the boom. When I talked camera shots with the cameraman before the demo he said he could not get the turning from the headstock side. So at about 41 minutes in when I turn from the headstock side the camera gets a good shot of the inside of the bowl with me behind it finish turning the outside.

Someone added an unwanted “r” to Hockenbery shame on them....

Check out the Sarasota woodturners demonstrators. They meet the 3rd Thursday.

There are some nice shots in the video. I also had a pretty bad piece of wood that I brought.


The demo
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=2582s&v=A6XccQl_0BY
 
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Here is an option for seeing live demos with no way to ask questions.
I did a natural edge crotch demo for the Sarasota Woodturners this March and they streamed it live on YouTube.
Their host Advantage lumber does it as public service and a little bit of advertising. My demo is still out on YouTube.

They have a nice set up a boom mounted camera. Ceiling mounted projector with a screen image about 8 feet high. Great for seeing details. The had an hdmi plug on a column near the lathe for my iPad presentation.
Two little nits:
1. they don’t have a way yet to stream the iPad slides so the first 10 minutes the video shows me holding the iPad while the Sarasota club watches the slides through the projector. The cameraman gets the iPad screen quite well.

2. They have no overhead camera to compliment the boom. When I talked camera shots with the cameraman before the demo he said he could not get the turning from the headstock side. So at about 41 minutes in when I turn from the headstock side the camera gets a good shot of the inside of the bowl with me behind it finish turning the outside.

Someone added an unwanted “r” to Hockenbery shame on them....

Check out the Sarasota woodturners demonstrators. They meet the 3rd Thursday.

There are some nice shots in the video. I also had a pretty bad piece of wood that I brought.


The demo
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=2582s&v=A6XccQl_0BY
Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed it!
 
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Do you think it’s possible to have more than one group at multiple locations piggy back on to a remote demonstration? Let’s say for example 26 people in Boston wish to have a remote demonstation with a woodturning professional from Missouri. 5 people from a very small club in Pennsylvania are very interested in the topic and would love to join in at a reasonable cost. Is this possible with the current methodology being used. @AlanZ and @davehu what are you thoughts

Dennis. Sorry for not replying earlier. just saw this. The answer is YES! e used Zoom.us for all 5 of our demos. Zoom allows you to have 100 participants per demo for free. However, the 100 really really refers to connections. When our club puts it on the big screen Zoom only sees one participant even though 50 of us are watching. So, if, for example, your club has 5 members who can't drive to your meeting site, they can join in live in their homes at not charge.
 

AlanZ

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There are many ways to handle multi-site online demonstrations. Zoom is quite good at this, and if one is going to do more than a one-on-one video call, it's likely worth getting a Zoom Pro account (this is what I have done). The pro account removes the free account limit of 40 minutes on a group call.

There have also been recent Zoom changes that now allow HD video in group calls (requires some configuration setting changes)... it was previously only HD in a one-on-one call.

This was important for me, because I sometimes use Zoom for the remote demos that Lauren and I do. With me in our basement shop, and her in our second floor studio, and an audience, all participating, it becomes a group call.
 
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Everyone seems to be tight lipped on what the demonstrators are charging for these demos. Someone told me that Lyle Jamison wants $300. Alan, Emiiano what do you charge?
 

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Bill, prices are generally negotiated by both parties, and some may not want to publish the prices..

For a typical 2 hour jewelry demo, Lauren and I usually charge $250 to $300... and optionally can arrange for a short "talk back" session a month or two after the presentation, so folks can follow up with questions or show us what they tried after seeing our demonstration.
 

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Everyone seems to be tight lipped on what the demonstrators are charging for these demos. Someone told me that Lyle Jamison wants $300. Alan, Emiiano what do you charge?
It depends on what demo the club would want, and how long. But lets say the pewa, Hawaiian bowl repair demo I charge $200. Also, after talking to some turners in charge of their club demos, I was told that they would only want me for 90 minutes or so... My demo on how to make a simple bowl usually takes a little longer than that, or longer, depending on how chatty I am, or how many questions the audience has... I also offer a follow up session... I'm not as famous as Lyle, and with Alan you get 2 very knowledgeable and talented artists for that price, a bargain...
 

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"My demo on how to make a simple bowl usually takes a little longer than that, or longer, depending on how chatty I am, or how many questions the audience has."

Emiliano, just increase the speed of your lathe... you can have it done in 20 minutes! <ducking/>
 
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I attended same presentation from Lyle Jamison that Bill did and while we certainly had some problems, most of that was due to quality of internet connection in the building we use for our meeting. The place we meet has no need for high speed internet which is normally not a concern. Our audio/ visual worked with Lyle and did the best job possible. All that aside, I think the presentation was well worth the effort. We have a lot of new inexperienced turners who learned a lot from Lyle. And the cost was very reasonable. We normally have one world class turner come to our club, North Texas Woodturners, each year. To give a demo and teach classes. This approach opens up the opportunity to have more very experienced turners from a wider geographic area at very reasonable costs and opens up a new avenue for learning. Internet service will certainly continue to improve and will make these type presentations easier. I have been involved with internet conferencing for over 25 years and today’s capability is infinitely better than when we started, so I expect capability will continue to improve and make this type of interaction very common in next few years.
 

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A few events of note for those considering either presenting or receiving remote demonstrations.

At the AAW Symposium 2018 in Portland OR:
  • I will be hosting a Thursday evening special interest night panel discussion about remote demonstrations and other ways (e.g., YouTube Live) to use live video to teach/share woodturning.
  • We will continue the discussion, play with equipment, and chat about all things Tech, at the Lucid Woodturners booth in the exhibitor area (more information about this to come soon)
  • I will have computer/video equipment set up to record Lauren's embellishment rotations.
  • I will have computer/video equipment set up to record and bring in a remote participant to the Woodturning with Physical Limitations panel.
At the SWAT 2018 Symposium in Waco TX
  • Lauren and I are lead demonstrators, and I will have computer/video equipment set up to record our woodturning and embellishment rotations.
  • I am doing a special rotation session (Friday 4p.m.) about remote demonstrations, both from the presenter and the audience points of view.
Should be lots of fun... hope to see/meet/chat with many of you at these events!
 
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