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the Beall Buffing method ......

odie

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I am creating this thread to discuss anything related to the Beall buffing method. If you have input, please comment here.

I recently discovered that if a bowl sits in storage for +/- 8 months, or so......it will need to be re-buffed with the third step, carnauba wheel, before sold, or put to use. There is a noticeable difference in the luster with the re-buff. Do you also find this to be necessary?

It appears as if the average life span of an 8" bowl buff is around +/- 250 bowls for the step #3 carnauba wax wheel. The other two wheels are still a good diameter, but are slowly being reduced in size. They will last much longer.

Has anyone compared the new style bowl buffs with the older discontinued style of bowl buffs? I have the old style bowl buffs, and they are not that useful for me. They seem to be too inflexible in the way they are constructed. The newer style looks like this may have been addressed. The old style 4" buff is installed in the photo shown in the next post.......

ko
 
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odie

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BTW: For anyone first starting out with the Beall system, using some latex disposable gloves are great for helping to grip the bowl while buffing. Once you get some experience with what you can and cannot do while holding your bowl to the buffing wheel, the gloves become optional. I'd say I lost about 5-6 bowls before I wised up! :rolleyes: It is a really disheartening thing to see your newly finished bowl flung across the shop, or bouncing on your cement floor.....been there, done that! :mad:

Here is my homemade buffing motor. It's made from the old motor from my lathe. It's 1 1/2 hp, and is too much power for this purpose, but what I had on hand when I built it, and seems to be working well, regardless. I'd say 3/4hp, or 1hp is probably about ideal.......:D

ko
IMG_1951.JPG
 
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odie

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Is that a variable speed motor?

No, Dennis......it's a Leeson 1 1/2 hp, single speed 110v......I believe it's rated at about 1800rpm.

edit: It's 1725 rpm.

ko
 
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I like using a lathe for buffing wheels which allows adjusting the speed for buffing and waxing.
If you have the room for several machines one can have buffing wheels mounted between centers, you
can also make an adapter for an adjustable chuck for a bowl buffing ball to polish the inside of a bowl.
 
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ko[/QUOTE]
I am creating this thread to discuss anything related to the Beall buffing method. If you have input, please comment here.
Odie I still use the Beall buffing system after many years the only improvement I have found to the normal methods ( after much experience) is to discontinue carnuba wax because of the horrid water spots that occur if water contacts a bowl. Also down here due to heat and humidity finger prints became a problem for me because customers love to pick up and feel a bowl to see if it right for them. I was having to rebuff constantly to remove finger prints. I now use a light coat of Renaissance wax then buff lightly no more water spots or finger prints so it works for me and a mico thin coat of micro-crystalline wax doesn't hurt anyone.
 

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Could you comment on the cables with turnbuckles? I see two possibilities:
  1. Stabilize the buffer from swaying -- OR --
  2. Adjusts the flatness of the base so that it doesn't rock
It's a nice industrial strength looking set up and the heavy duty push button switches look like they also came from your lathe.
 

Bill Boehme

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Is that a variable speed motor?

The two big "bumps" on the motor means that it is capacitor-start capacitor-run single-phase induction motor (quite a mouthful to say). Single-phase AC induction motors can't be used with a variable frequency drive*. Three-phase motors are required for electronic adjustable speed control with a variable frequently drive.

*There are some exceptions such as low torque air handler motors, There are also universal motors which are really DC motors that are used in hand tools like drills and routers.
 

odie

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Odie is that hockey tape on the Beall mount?

Howdy Gerald......Yes, the arbor has hockey tape on it. I initially put the tape on there so I had something to grab onto when I wanted to stop the motor quickly.....but it really doesn't help much, if at all. Never bothered to take it off.

ko
 

odie

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Could you comment on the cables with turnbuckles? I see two possibilities:
  1. Stabilize the buffer from swaying -- OR --
  2. Adjusts the flatness of the base so that it doesn't rock
It's a nice industrial strength looking set up and the heavy duty push button switches look like they also came from your lathe.

Hello Bill.......:)

It's my bad engineering that caused the need for the cables and turnbuckles. I made the stand with a piece of 6" angle iron for the upright, with plates welded at both ends. It needed more stability than this provides. I found that the upright angle iron was not completely stable, and tended to twist vibrate on the vertical axis.....or, along the length of the angle iron. The cables were a second thought to overcome this tendency for the angle iron to flex. The cable fix works, but if I had to make a buffing stand again, it would be designed a little differently.

Yes, those switches are the original switches from my Woodfast lathe......back when I changed belts, and before I converted to variable speed. That was one of the best improvements I've ever done to my lathe! :D

ko
 

odie

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Odie I still use the Beall buffing system after many years the only improvement I have found to the normal methods ( after much experience) is to discontinue carnuba wax because of the horrid water spots that occur if water contacts a bowl. Also down here due to heat and humidity finger prints became a problem for me because customers love to pick up and feel a bowl to see if it right for them. I was having to rebuff constantly to remove finger prints. I now use a light coat of Renaissance wax then buff lightly no more water spots or finger prints so it works for me and a mico thin coat of micro-crystalline wax doesn't hurt anyone.

Thanks for your input, Breck......:)

The average temperatures here in MT are much cooler, and that could make a difference in how the carnauba wax reacts to handling. Do you use the Beall wheels to buff out the Renaissance wax? Before I started using the Beall system, I was using the Black Bison wax, and it's not nearly as good......

ko
 
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I bought a buffing wheel. Cranked 'er up and quickly decided that power buffing wasn't for me. I got abrasive and crap from the wheel flying everywhere. Since then I've used shavings on occasion as a burnishing medium.

Maybe I just got a crappy wheel?
 
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Thanks for your input, Breck......:)

The average temperatures here in MT are much cooler, and that could make a difference in how the carnauba wax reacts to handling. Do you use the Beall wheels to buff out the Renaissance wax? Before I started using the Beall system, I was using the Black Bison wax, and it's not nearly as good......

ko
Odie not Breck but Renissance does not require wheel buffing on a hand slight buff and you can use more than one coat.

I bought a buffing wheel. Cranked 'er up and quickly decided that power buffing wasn't for me. I got abrasive and crap from the wheel flying everywhere. Since then I've used shavings on occasion as a burnishing medium.

Maybe I just got a crappy wheel?

Raul the Beall wheels have to be broken in and after that the fiber shedding will slow down but never completely go away .Also if it is shedding abrasive you are adding too much. Only a small amount of abrasive is required. For me the worst thing is that sometime the wheels burn off some of the finish as a result of lack of cure time ot to much finish applied.
 
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Thanks for your input, Breck......:)

The average temperatures here in MT are much cooler, and that could make a difference in how the carnauba wax reacts to handling. Do you use the Beall wheels to buff out the Renaissance wax? Before I started using the Beall system, I was using the Black Bison wax, and it's not nearly as good......

ko
Odie I have a dedicated wax 8" buff for the Ren. wax and buff lightly it creates a better sheen (I would say more like a semi gloss) than not buffing, better than the white diamond step that's for sure. It is not quite as glossy as the carnuba wax creates, but like I said way down here on the gulf of mexico the humidity stays around 88-98% most of the summer and probably over half the winter if I can tell we are even having winter. They say on the can of ren wax a little goes a long way. I have had a small can for 5 years and done countless bowls and it is a little less then half full.
 

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My first experience with a Beall buff was "interesting". :D

My three car studio was almost instantly filled with a cloud of cotton fibers and dust. Even after a break-in period they never completely stop creating a small cloud, but it's nothing like the first snowstorm.

A lot of turners use the Beall buff system, but it isn't something that I use ... maybe ten or twenty times in the past dozen years. I've barely used the tripoli and white diamond abrasives and mostly I've used the carnauba wax. I have used Johnson's Paste Wax, but handling can sometimes leave smudges. More recently I've been using microcrystalline wax by Chestnut. It's less expensive than Renaissance.

BTW, wax can be used when you want a satin finish, but don't put it on a high gloss finish because that will turn it into a not-quite-high-gloss finish. This is true for any wax. I don't see a reason for using wax on top of any film finish. It's OK on bare wood or oiled wood. If I use wax over oil, I try to wait several weeks to let the oil polymerize until the smell is mostly gone. Not waiting will just slow down the polymerization. Wax isn't a permanent finish, but for something that sits on a shelf and looks pretty, it might be satisfactory. I have used wax alone when I didn't want to darken the wood.

EDIT: Did I mention that on my first attempt with the Beall buff that I sent the bowl into a low earth orbit.
 
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Odie I made a motor buffer years ago, as I didn’t like to have to buff above the ways of the lathe, not enough room or freedom of holding my bowls, and also didn’t want to pay the in my eyes high priced buffing system, bought the buffs that lots of places sell and made larger ones myself.

As I had not much room then, I made it easily placed where I could use it and then after store it away again, used just a furnace motor I had, it will not let me be aggressively buff, but it works for me, and that is wat counts :)

For arbors I used the levelling bolds from washing machines, as they had large thin heads and the top end without thread, couple large fender washers and a regular screw works also, when I did run out of the large head bolds that’s what I also use.

The other thing that I also do is, use drills (variable speed) and buff while the piece is still on the lathe.

As there was some questions raised, I did make some pictures, so don’t think I am buffing un-sanded bowls ;)

large bowl
buffing larger bowl.jpg

Buffing with drill.
Drill to buff with.jpg

Buffing wheel drawer
buffing wheels.jpg

Buffing on the lathe.
buffing on the lathe.jpg
 

odie

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I bought a buffing wheel. Cranked 'er up and quickly decided that power buffing wasn't for me. I got abrasive and crap from the wheel flying everywhere. Since then I've used shavings on occasion as a burnishing medium.

Maybe I just got a crappy wheel?

Hi Raul.......As Gerald noted, the shredding of the buffing wheel is normal for a new wheel. The rate at which it breaks down slows considerably, but never completely stops. I measured my carnauba step #3 wheel, and it's a little over 5" in diameter.......after several hundred bowls. It still buffs as good as a new wheel, but would be better if it were the full original 8" diameter.

ko
 

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I use the beal buffs on lots of pieces.

My General rule for wax is to not use it on things that will be handled a lot.
The dirt on hands will get imbedded in the wax - just like the evidence transfer on CSI.
the waxed item will the get a dingy look from handling
 

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I am creating this thread to discuss anything related to the Beall buffing method. If you have input, please comment here....

Re: Buffing ....my 2 cents.

I purchased my Beall set in 1994 (just looked it up in my tool/equipment inventory). I had my share of fly-away bowls and some burn-throughs of the finish as others have mentioned. In 1998 I bought a set of Beall 4" buffing wheels - to which I added a couple of nuts (used as locknuts), a connector nut, and a smooth shank hex-head bolt with the head cut-off to mount in the chuck of a high speed VS drill (2800 rpm? - not critical). It worked so well I bought two more identical drills (think production), one for each wheel. I haven't used the 8-9" wheels since!!!

I always finished and buffed my pieces on the lathe. I left the waste block or mounting method in place until completion (a vacuum chuck will also work in most cases). To buff - mount your piece on the lathe and turn slowly (slower than when turning or sanding). The 4” buffing wheels will allow you to get into some areas that an 8” wheel won’t allow. You can access pretty much all areas by reversing the lathe and/or drill to your advantage.

The 4" wheels have proven successful for 80-90% of my turnings. After the piece is completely buffed I would then work on the foot, or whatever.

Advantages:

* The piece is mounted on the lathe so it will never be ripped from your hands.
* The surface of your piece and the buffing wheels are constantly moving so you will never(?) have any burn through.

I did shows for more than 25 yrs. and was often rushed to finish pieces. It is best to let the finish cure (surface finishes i.e. Waterlox) before buffing, but many, many times I would buff them out the next day using this method. On some small pieces with a quick-drying finish I could buff them out 4-6 hours later.
 

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Well I've been using it for a long time. I had the same problems early on, burn through of the finish and tossing pieces. I changed to 4" wheels instead of the 8. That and changing brands of finish stopped the burn through. Tossing bowls and things simply comes with practice. If you always buff toward an edge it won't grab the work. I also quit using the wax but mostly because it simply didn't seem to add anything. When I do need protection I use Johnson's paste wax.
 
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Here is my buff rake, until yesterday it had the original duct tape handle. Odie, I'm trying your "do it now" theme, I just haven't found time to make the sign...:)
Raking a new buff gets a lot of the loose stuff out all at once and into the dust collector instead of in the air. Then a few times a year I rake the buff just to loosen things up. The tripoli a few times a year, the white diamond sometimes and the wax, rarely. If I make another one, I'll make the handle a bit longer so I can use it as a back scratcher...
Buff rake 1.jpg Buff rake 2.jpg
 
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Well I've been using it for a long time. I had the same problems early on, burn through of the finish and tossing pieces. I changed to 4" wheels instead of the 8. That and changing brands of finish stopped the burn through. Tossing bowls and things simply comes with practice. If you always buff toward an edge it won't grab the work. I also quit using the wax but mostly because it simply didn't seem to add anything. When I do need protection I use Johnson's paste wax.

And what was the "changing brands of finish" --from what brand to what brand?
 
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I had some industrial buffs that I used in the headstock once in awhile. Someone earlier mentioned that it was not convenient working over the bedways, and I agree, I kept bumping the bowl into headstock or the ways. So, I just quit buffing. Then I took a class with Ellsworth last fall and he showed us his dedicated buffing machine on which he uses nothing more than the 1st step red rouge. As usual, I got carried away--- I bought a Beal system, a 1/2 hp Leeson motor from Ebay, and I built a nice wooden platform with 2X6 that I filled with sand.
I'll post a pic tomorrow when I get back in the shop.
 

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I went to 4" wheels. I use an 8" extension on my lathe spindle and then run the speed at what I feel is comfortable. Pretty high, probaby 2000 but I never took the time to look. I only use a touch of the bars. It doesn't take much. My White diamond buff doesn't even look like it has anything on it, that's how little i use. With finishes that are very hard it takes more time and pressure to get out any streaks. Finishes that are soft require a more gentle touch and slower speeds to keep from burning through. Since I went to the 4" buffs I almost never burn through a finish. They also don't grab the wood as easily but will still toss a piece if you buff from an edge out or let it grab an edge. Always buff out toward an edge and if you have to change your hand positions move away from the wheel.
 
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I went to 4" wheels. I use an 8" extension on my lathe spindle and then run the speed at what I feel is comfortable. Pretty high, probaby 2000 but I never took the time to look. I only use a touch of the bars. It doesn't take much. My White diamond buff doesn't even look like it has anything on it, that's how little i use. With finishes that are very hard it takes more time and pressure to get out any streaks. Finishes that are soft require a more gentle touch and slower speeds to keep from burning through. Since I went to the 4" buffs I almost never burn through a finish. They also don't grab the wood as easily but will still toss a piece if you buff from an edge out or let it grab an edge. Always buff out toward an edge and if you have to change your hand positions move away from the wheel.

Thanks, J
...Still waiting to here what brand of finishes you use
TA
 
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There are large nuts on some of the Beall buffing wheels; not the bowl buffs. I have covered them with masking tape to stop those annoying rub marks on the inside of small bowls. It works for me. After having postings on this thread, I plan on changing to the white hockey tape that Odie wrapped his mounting mandrel with.
 

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There are large nuts on some of the Beall buffing wheels; not the bowl buffs. I have covered them with masking tape to stop those annoying rub marks on the inside of small bowls. It works for me. After having postings on this thread, I plan on changing to the white hockey tape that Odie wrapped his mounting mandrel with.

Allan......Good idea about covering the bolt heads with tape. I think I'll use your idea, and cover my bolt heads with tape, as well......thanks for taking the time to post your ideas on that. Previously, I had taken those bolt heads and ground them down about 1/8", so they don't stick out as far.....that helps, too, but it's not a complete solution. I also polished the shortened bolt heads........but, I still hit the metal to wood occasionally. Although, this happens much less frequently, it's still unacceptable.

The new style Beall bowl buffs are made differently.....the bolt heads are not exposed like the old style. I still use the old style when I can, because I have them. After using the new style, I'm converting all my buffing operations to using them for bowl interiors.......this fixes the problem altogether. :D

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/37/5178/Beall-4"-Bowl-Buff-3-Piece-Set
bea_4_bow_buf_set.jpg
 
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Thanks for your input, Breck......:)

The average temperatures here in MT are much cooler, and that could make a difference in how the carnauba wax reacts to handling. Do you use the Beall wheels to buff out the Renaissance wax? Before I started using the Beall system, I was using the Black Bison wax, and it's not nearly as good......

ko
So I read the forum and confirmed I had the same problem with carnauba wax AFTER it was on six special pieces. Can anyone help understand what my next step is to resolve the layer of carnuaba in place. I want to use the renaissance wax but am concerned it will just muck up with the variable already there. Should I use a solvent and start over?
 

odie

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So I read the forum and confirmed I had the same problem with carnauba wax AFTER it was on six special pieces. Can anyone help understand what my next step is to resolve the layer of carnuaba in place. I want to use the renaissance wax but am concerned it will just muck up with the variable already there. Should I use a solvent and start over?


Marc.......are you using the Beall carnauba wax? The reason I ask, is I once tried another brand of carnauba wax and had troubles with it resulting in smudging and fingerprints. I'm not sure what the difference is, but I suspect the other brand might have been blended with some other substance that causes problems. The Beall carnauba wax seems heavier by weight for the same volume, and harder.

Another thing you might try is to use a scrap piece of wood to prepare the buffing wheel after you apply the carnauba.......this has become a regular practice for me........:D

-----odie-----
 
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Hi Odie,
Yes the Beall carauba wax. And I’m guessing I don’t want anything to do with Carnauba anymore. But my problem is what to do with my six pieces I just carnaubaed. Can I renaissance wax over it? Seems like I should remove it the start over....
Ideas?
 

odie

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Hi Odie,
Yes the Beall carauba wax. And I’m guessing I don’t want anything to do with Carnauba anymore. But my problem is what to do with my six pieces I just carnaubaed. Can I renaissance wax over it? Seems like I should remove it the start over....
Ideas?

I've never tried to remove the carnauba wax, once it's applied......can't help you out.....sorry. :(

Maybe someone else has some suggestions for you.......

-----odie-----
 
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For removing wax try dna. It should remove a light wax coating and not leave any deposits. Mineral spirits and naptha will cut the wax right off, but may leave a bit of residue behind. And yes, it would be a good idea to remove the existing wax before buffing with a different kind.

Mark Silay recommends Kiwi neutral shoe polish (I think Cindy Drozda also). I haven't tried it but it's supposed to be good for resisting water spots and fingerprints.
 
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I looked at buff mops on Amazon but while there all I saw were short extensions. I used your link and looked around and found the 8" inch spindle extension that Tom A. mentioned. Thanks, Odie.

I just started buffing bowls. Before, I'd only buffed resin pens. I bought some Beale compounds and wax and used them with some cheap buffs last weekend and was pleased with the result. I just ordered the Beale buffs. I'm pretty sure the cheap ones I used were all cotton/linen. With the right fabric buffs I'm hoping for an even better look.
 
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