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What is the difference between........

Steve Worcester

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Chatoyance has to do with the way the light hits it and it "glows" or radiates, like a striped maple or curly woods. Translucence would be how you can see the wood through the translucent dye, or a level of which light passes through.
 

john lucas

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Steve nailed it. Chatoyance usually changes when you either move one way or the other or move the light source as you look at it. It's impossible to photograph to show both view of chatoyance. You can shift the light and get 2 different photos sometimes looking like 2 different pieces of wood.
 

hockenbery

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All good descriptions. Translucent is some that light passes through the wood and wood glows when back lit.
Chatoyance is the reflection of light in different directions giving a sparkle effect.

The pictured bowl has only chatoyance. I sees no light coming through the wood.

Many wet woods are translucent until they dry since the water retransmits light like fiber optics.
I turn light woods with a lamp to a color that matches a thickness I want.
White is a hole, yellow is thin enough.
 

odie

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Bill Boehme

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So, how about it? What best describes the bowl in this link to a current entry to the gallery?

I thought it was beautiful, but had a hard time deciding, prior to commenting.

-----odie-----

Definitely chatoyance.

Here is an example of something that is translucent ... a white plastic shield over a fluorescent light fixture. The light from the bare bulb passes through the plastic and is diffused to reduce glare. This different than sunglasses which are transparent but absorb some of the light passing through it.
 
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Odie, that beautiful curly fiddelback maple salad bowl you displayed in the gallery had a similar look to Chatoyance to me. It also reminded me of water reflection on the side of the piece. Very beautiful indeed.
 

odie

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Odie, that beautiful curly fiddelback maple salad bowl you displayed in the gallery had a similar look to Chatoyance to me. It also reminded me of water reflection on the side of the piece. Very beautiful indeed.

OK, thanks Lamar.......

If anyone can post an example photo of translucence, I'd appreciate that.....

-----odie-----
 
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What's the difference between Translucence and Chatoyance?
Chatoyance is in minerals where the refraction effect sets up a cats eye effect

Translucence is when some thing can't quite be made out under a semi visually permiable top cover.

I've see lots of guys talking about chatoyance as if it any sparkly mineral like effect and I don't think they quite understand it It's the cats eye,
 

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If you ever sautéed onions, they start out somewhat opaque and they become translucent when they're done.

Frosted glass which is often used on bathroom windows is another example of something that is translucent.

Lampshades are translucent.

Here is a picture of a translucent sphere.

image.jpeg
 

odie

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I will post a photo later today showing Chatoyance..

John......This is one of my bowls currently in the AAW gallery.
20758-cf941c2e8b97f1fc473dc801142401e2.jpg

I believe what we're seeing here is chatoyance. The bowl was positioned in the photo for maximum light effect......but, if it's rotated some, the chatoyance changes.

If I'm understanding this correctly, translucence is a visual effect that doesn't naturally occur in any wood.....but, is created by being very thin, so the light shows through.....or, translucence can be created by the addition of finishes, or something added to the wood. Anyone agree with that conclusion?

-----odie-----
 

odie

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All good descriptions. Translucent is some that light passes through the wood and wood glows when back lit.

I've been searching for a term that describes a translucent feel...the wood appears to glow as if the wood is a little translucent, though there is no actual light coming through. The look is similar to an all around medium level of chatoyance, though there is no variation and I don't think it's true chatoyance. I call it depth, or describe it a translucent feel.

The wood that I turn where I see this often is western hemlock, and I don't think photos really capture the feel. Maybe this is part of what led this discussion?
 

Bill Boehme

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This is a turner doing demo at our club and this is translucence....

While you can do this with green wood to guage thickness while turning, the wood becomes opaque once dry. A few highly resinous softwoods, especially Norfolk Island Pine, when turned very thin will allow some light to pass through even after dry. To answer Odie's question, your understanding is correct. You can use an oil finish to give "depth" to the wood and while not technically fitting the meaning of translucency, it can still be a useful descriptive term for the appearance of a finish. Your conclusion is correct, Odie, it's not a characteristic of the wood, but rather what you do to it.

Chatoyance is a term used to describe certain gemstones where the appearance and colors shift as the angle of the light source or the viewing angle changes. It's also a good descriptive word that fits the way that light is reflected in some species of highly figured wood such as Odie's maple bowl.
 

hockenbery

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Wood turned thin enough will be translucent regardless of species.
I have seen quite a few bowls that were almost funnels that pass light through the bottom.
One or two in my shop, a few more in classes, and a bunch brought to club show and tells.

We have a NIP bowl about a 1/4 in thickness that is translucent.
 

hockenbery

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Chatoyance is a term used to describe certain gemstones where the appearance and colors shift as the angle of the light source or the viewing angle changes. It's also a good descriptive word that fits the way that light is reflected in some species of highly figured wood such as Odie's maple bowl.

Just what Wikipedia has to say.

In gemology, chatoyancy (/ʃəˈtɔɪ.ənsi/ shə-TOY-ən-see), or chatoyance or cat's eye effect,[1] is an optical reflectance effect seen in certain gemstones. Coined from the French "œil de chat", meaning "cat's eye", chatoyancy arises either from the fibrous structure of a material, as in tiger's eye quartz, or from fibrous inclusions or cavities within the stone, as in cat's eye chrysoberyl.

Chatoyancy in wood occurs in various species – particularly hardwoods, and particularly where stresses from the weight of the growing tree result in denser patches, or where stresses cause burl or bird’s eye. This ‘figure’, which has a striking three-dimensional appearance, is highly prized by woodworkers and their clients alike, and is featured regularly in furniture, musical instruments, and other decorative wood products. Figuring takes on a variety of forms and is referred to as flame, ribbon, tiger stripe, quilting, among other names.

This effect is sometimes called wet look, since wetting wood with water often displays the chatoyancy, albeit only until the wood dries. Certain finishes cause the chatoyancy (also referred to as wood iridescence, moire, vibrancy, shimmer or glow) to become more pronounced. Oil finishes, epoxy, and shellac can strongly bring out the wet look effect.
 
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I agree with Al I have turned cherry to be translucent and is still somewhat "lighted" even when dry. It will have the effect somewhat like a lampshade.

As to chatoyance I would say the light reflection ,which is what causes the appearance, will change with the angle of the light . Since we deal in mostly round objects this is not easily captured with photography and will cause you to continuously turn the object to see the full effect.
 
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John......This is one of my bowls currently in the AAW gallery.
20758-cf941c2e8b97f1fc473dc801142401e2.jpg

I believe what we're seeing here is chatoyance. The bowl was positioned in the photo for maximum light effect......but, if it's rotated some, the chatoyance changes.

If I'm understanding this correctly, translucence is a visual effect that doesn't naturally occur in any wood.....but, is created by being very thin, so the light shows through.....or, translucence can be created by the addition of finishes, or something added to the wood. Anyone agree with that conclusion?

-----odie-----
I agree Odie, as I stated that looks like chatoyance to me. I believe that is what we are seeing in this bowl.
 

Bill Boehme

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I agree with Al I have turned cherry to be translucent and is still somewhat "lighted" even when dry. It will have the effect somewhat like a lampshade.

As to chatoyance I would say the light reflection ,which is what causes the appearance, will change with the angle of the light . Since we deal in mostly round objects this is not easily captured with photography and will cause you to continuously turn the object to see the full effect.

In order to see the apparent depth of ripple when the wood is actually smooth on the surface requires binocular vision. Close one eye while looking at a piece of figured maple and you see the differences in reflectance, but you don't see the illusion of textured depth that is the result of your eyes each viewing the piece from slightly different angles. The only way to capture it photographically is by using stereographic photography ... if you remember the old ViewMaster 3-D viewers.
 
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I bought a piece of ancient Kauri from Woodcraft, Which is supposed to be 30,000 years old or something like that, turned a wine goblet out of it. It had a fantastic chatoyance, looked different when you turned it. There's a website, Ancient woods or something that shows the chatoyance of this wood. It's nice but pretty pricey.
 

john lucas

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Odie that appears to me to be Chatoyance. I didn't have time to shoot my piece yesterday but going to do that this morning before the sunlight in my shop becomes a problem.
 
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Translucence is just having or being able to see light passing through a substance or material that is not clear like glass or water, couple of turnings that show this.

Thinwalled Beech bowl.jpg
Thinwalled Norway Maple.jpg
Paperthin Tulip wood.jpg
Thinwalled Aspen.jpg

While Chatoyance is the breaking-up and reflecting light by twisted grain in wood, and crystals and other impurities in stone that cause the same effect of light to reflect in non consistent ways, and to have the changing reflection of the light rays in a material when changing the angle of looking at it.

Hard to get the changing light in a picture of course, but still apparent sometimes.

Mulberry with Chatoyance.jpg
Chatoyance in Mulberry.jpg
 
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So, how about it? What best describes the bowl in this link to a current entry to the gallery?

I thought it was beautiful, but had a hard time deciding, prior to commenting.

-----odie-----
I'd say the wood has some nice chatoyance. The dye being translucent allows the chatoyance to show through and even enhances it.
 
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