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Important Request: Your input needed regarding the "Newbie Forum"

What should be done with the Newbie forum?

  • Leave it as it currently is

    Votes: 5 10.9%
  • Move all of the Newbie Forum threads to the "main" Woodturning Discussion Forum"

    Votes: 36 78.3%
  • No opinion (a self contradiction since "no opinion" constitutes an opinion)

    Votes: 5 10.9%

  • Total voters
    46
  • Poll closed .
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Bill Boehme

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The Newbie Forum was created in April 2009 following the requests of a number of new turners and subsequent discussions about its purpose and goals. Here is a link to the sticky thread that summarizes the purposes of the forum.

Based on my own feelings and numerous comments from others, both beginners and long time turners, I feel that the existence of a separate Newbie Forum often sends a negative or confusing message to forum users, both new and long time members. At the worst, I'm concerned about the implied message telling beginners that their place is in the kiddie corner and they're not ready to play with the adults. It's also is confusing to beginners who don't know whether or not a question should be asked in the Newbie forum. Also, I haven't seen much evidence that the original intent of the forum has actually occurred.

I wouldn't want there to be the existence of even the slightest hint of second class status to any forum member and that is what has been bothering me about having a designated separate place for beginners. Of course, it's obvious that I'm only hearing from those wanting change. People aren't going to contact me and say, "I'm happy with the status quo and don't change anything" if they don't know that a change is being considered. So this is the time for everybody to make their preference known on this question. Vote in the poll and post your opinion in this thread. I'm anxiously awaiting what you have to say.

(As a separate unrelated matter, I am planning to create an Introductions Forum, but I'm still working on the details.)
 
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When I first joined the forum, I thought I should only post in the newbie forum because that is what it is called and was inviting to ask very basic questions. Now I post in the newbie section because I feel my questions are basic and advanced turning topics can be discussed in the regular forum. Would I have not posted if it wasn’t there? I still would have but maybe hesitated at first.

If you do remove it, maybe have a section or a pinned thread for “New Members Intoductions”
 

john lucas

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I agree with Gary and Bill. I also thought it gave a negative connotation to the questions. Perhaps a new name is all that's needed.
 
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I think it is unnecessary. I don't think I have ever gone to that category. There are not that many postings, and the new turners questions are the most interesting. A great many of the main postings appear to be from members who have nothing better to do than post nonsense.
 
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When I first joined this fourm my first impression was that the Newbie fourm was the fourm I should use as other than pens I didn't have any experience with bowl, platters, etc., however what I wanted was help from the experienced turners. I felt the experienced turners were not even going to look or provide help. It did give me the impression of a tier level. I now realize this is not the case being a member for a short time, but still wonder where I should post some questions. In 2009 the reason may have been valid for that time, but I really don't see much difference in the two fourm at this time. It was intimidating to me initially and also thought I shouldn't post a reply in the main fourm even though I had experience with the subject matter. I just don't see the need for it as far as posting.
 
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When I visit the Forum, I click on the "New Posts" link and get all the new posts from all the sub forums, and usually read them all. Our Woodcraft store advertises a "Woodturning 101" class, it is for beginners, but also for folks who want to brush up on their skills, unlearn bad habits and relearn good ones. But the perception is, it's 101. For the older (?) folks, the reaction is I'm xx years old, I'm not taking a 101 class. Short sited, maybe, but it's the feedback I get from my unscientific polls from club members and folks who eventually decide to take the class. I don't think it's just semantics, I think perception has a lot to do with it. I like the "Newbie forum" I think it needs a name change. Bill, too your statement,
Also, I haven't seen much evidence that the original intent of the forum has actually occurred.
I just went to the first page of the Newbie forum and see all valid questions, some may not have been asked if the poster had thought they are too basic for the main forum. Would it be possible to add a forth option to your poll? That would be "Rename the Newbie forum". So what would be a new name? How about,
Turning questions answered for free (valid answers 5¢)... Well, maybe we should ask the members for help on that. My vote is for keeping the forum, but with a name change.
Bill, thanks for all the "behind the scene" work that you do.
c
 
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As to this forum in general (the main forum), the thing that's puzzled me most about it is the overall lack of participation.

I look at two woodturning forums, this one and Sawmill Creek. Just now I counted the recent (last) postings of today and yesterday, five here and nine at the other forum. Of course, the count is variable by day, but never having counted before it still does seem reasonable the ratio might be accurate. The other forum consistently appears to have more daily postings.

Any ideas why more turners don't participate here? At first glance you'd think this would be the place "everyone" would post since it's sponsored by the AAW. (I don't participate more because my interests are more in automated, CNC, turning.)
 
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By the standards of most of the people posting in the main forum, I am a newbie. Perhaps not so much in terms of the years that I have been turning, but certainly in the amount of turning that I have done. That said, I would not hesitate to post a question in the main forum, since, from my perspective, that is likely where the members who can answer my question will see it.
 

Bill Boehme

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Any ideas why more turners don't participate here? At first glance you'd think this would be the place "everyone" would post since it's sponsored by the AAW. (I don't participate more because my interests are more in automated, CNC, turning.)

You provided part of the answer to your question. :D There was a very long thread several months ago that discussed this same question. Click HERE to read it. (short version is that it is a question without an answer). The thread also has comments about the Newbie forum.

We could also ask why such a small percentage of woodturners are AAW members. The reasons are as varied as there are people who get involved in woodturning.

But, anyway, this is drifting off a bit and right now I would like to keep this train on the tracks as much as possible. I'm also wanting to stay out of the discussion at this point because I don't want to steer the results one way or the other.[/QUOTE]
 

odie

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Well, you are in control, Bill.....:)

Why not merge the two forums, and see what happens? (Looks like that's where you're taking this, anyway.)

I've been posting in both the newbie and main forums. Some subjects in the newbie forum tend to stay around longer. These might get responses that they probably wouldn't have, because they're still on page 1.There is somewhat of an advantage to that. Threads that "drop off the cliff" to page 2 don't seem to get very much traffic, and they die.

My guess is threads that get revived from the back pages, usually do so as the result of a search, and not casual reading habits.......

-----odie-----
 
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I have never visited the Newbie forum because I didn't see a need for me to do so....... I just looked at the forum and the questions seem the same type of questions that are on this main forum. I don't see a need for the Newbie forum myself. In my opinion it isn't needed at all. Now I'll have to go back to that forum to check them out, I think those questions should have been on the main forum, this one. Now I will have to go back and forth to read both...........time after time, just don't see the need for both
Tim.
 

odie

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The answer to your "Why not"question is that the merger is irreversible AFAIK.

I see......I guess you could always re-start the newbie forum from scratch......

The purpose, I suppose, is to ultimately inspire new and more forum participation.....is that correct?

If the two forums were merged, then the subject matter on the first page will be reduced by half. That, in itself, may result in less participation......simply because there will be less information on the first page to generate interest. Whether the two forums are merged, or not, it's possible that interest could be increased, by simply having more subject matter on the first page. Is it possible to squeeze more threads into the first page?.....either smaller space taken up by the individual threads, or maybe having more than one column.

-----odie-----
 
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I have been a user of the Newbie forum. I think the concept is great because when I ask there, I don't have to explain that I just got my lathe x months ago. Everyone knows I'm a beginner and my questions are reletively simple. The title doesn't bother me but could change as long as the new turner concept remains.
I've been learning a lot here. Thanks
Regis
 

RichColvin

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Bill,

I'd vote to merge them. We all have "newbie" questions from time to time, and I would doubt any of us is an expert in all the stuff we'd like to pursue / play with.

And further, I have seen that no question is treated as stupid. What I think is most critical is to censor those responses that do so.

Rich
 
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I agree with Regis.

A forum, by any name, where people who answer questions know and understand that the person asking is a beginner is good. My only question is when does someone graduate from "beginner / newbie" to "advanced"?

If we merge the two forums then I would encourage some method of marking the question as "beginner", "intermediate", or "advanced" so others can filter the questions into whatever level they wish to respond to.
 
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When joined this forum I wasn't a newbie to a lathe or wood turning tools, I was a newbie to bowl and platter turning. This is a wonderful group of wood turners on this forum and I have gotten a lot of help from turners here. I have asked all my questions on the discussion forum. I am for combining the two.
 
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Why isn't there a voting option to rename the beginner forum?

And to Jesse'so point.....an experienced turner may be new too a particular area like wood burning techniques or carving or?
 
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Doug,

Do you do ornamental turning ?

Rich

Yes...sort of..... I attended the ornamental turning symposium in the Seattle area about ten years ago. At the urging of a friend active in the OT community I did some CNC'ed sample pieces for the instant gallery. That was interesting. A number of experienced OT'ers picked the pieces up speculating over how they were done. About 80% of them put the pieces down like a hot potato when they were told CNC. Not exactly a warm welcome so I never pursued it to any extent.
 
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I just imagine that a lot of information may not be shared unless everyone follows and reads both forums. I have not been reading both forums because I really didn't know what the Newbie forum was for. Consequently any advice or opinion I may have had regarding a question on the Newbie forum did not get posted as I imagine happens with other folks as well. I just really don't think there is a need for two separate forums that cover the same topics. Again, I am afraid some important information may not be shared.
Tim.
 

Bill Boehme

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Can we have a super top secret exclusive forum where members share information between the illuminated ones. (23) :)

We do ... oops, I guess that I'm not supposed to mention that. :D

We're the only forum that has a caste system. :D
 
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feel that the existence of a separate Newbie Forum often sends a negative or confusing message to forum users, both new and long time members. At the worst, I'm concerned about the implied message telling beginners that their place is in the kiddie corner


I concur. What it does from my perspective is it looks and feels like some kind of unspoken limitation on who exactly might be looking in on the forum. So, assuming a new turner posts a question she might reasonably wonder if only a small handful of persons who will have self appointed themselves as "guardians of the poor" or some such, will see and or respond. I know if it were me that I'd prefer the sense of a wider audience than just those who are looking in on the newbie forum.
 
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Raul I wholeheartedly agree with you. And it looks like the poll numbers are the highest vote counts on the combining of the two forums. I had thought when I learned about the Newbie forum from the start that I didn't know why it was started. I know the original reasoning was for the welfare of the members but I just think more answers to posters' questions and problems would be better answered with the larger reading audience from the combination of the two forums. JMHO.
Tim.
 
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When I visit the Forum, I click on the "New Posts" link and get all the new posts from all the sub forums, and usually read them all.

Yep, that’s what I do too. The subcategories really don’t matter to me since I get a page of everything new since my last visit. There isn’t enough activity here to have to limit my reading to specific categories.

For those that do look at the forum list, I agree that there is an implied separation of where you are to participate if you consider yourself new to the group or turning.

Additionally, though I’ve been turning for 15+ years, I am quite the “newbie” if I were to ask about hollowing rigs or ornamental turning. It’s not a very well-defined label and, in my opinion, unnecessary.
 
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This seems like another good reason to keep/rename the Newbie forum; as odie stated,
Some subjects in the newbie forum tend to stay around longer. These might get responses that they probably wouldn't have, because they're still on page 1.There is somewhat of an advantage to that. Threads that "drop off the cliff" to page 2 don't seem to get very much traffic, and they die.
I haven't voted because nothing really fits "rename".
 

odie

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This seems like another good reason to keep/rename the Newbie forum; as odie stated,

I haven't voted because nothing really fits "rename".
I think you might be right, Clifton.
A good name for the forum just might be the best way to avoid any drawbacks associated with "newbie". There are a lot of very capable and experienced turners who occasionally want to promote discussion, and not necessarily seeking advice. Getting some of these people to participate is a difficult thing to do without creating additional problems, while maintaining a flow of ideas and thought.......:(......a good name might help.
The discussion means more to me than the vote count.
Right, Bill.....Contrary to popular opinion, a democracy doesn't always produce the best results.....o_O

-----odie------
 
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I'm for merging into one.
Trying to delineate between newbie/oldie or master/student is precarious - those that have taught will surely agree that we have learned as much, sometimes more, from those we're teaching.
 
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I agree -- Merging might be better. I rarely look at the Newbie section and know I must be missing something. If they were merged then at least I would see the inputs.
 

hockenbery

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The value of the newbie - is that it provides a comfort zone for new turners to post.
We all come from different backgrounds and have diffrerent degrees of timidity.
Some people will post in the newbie section who would not post in the other sections.
That is a valuable tool for those future individuals who may come to the forum..
 
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Merge them. If anyone reads the rules for participating in the forum, suggest that they indicate if they are starting out and ask what they are wanting to learn as to basics, techniques, tools, etc.
 
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One thing for sure, once merged, this site will look like all the others. And, it sounds like that is what most of the experienced turners want. Next month's new turner will not see difference from other forums.

My 2 cents
Regis
 
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