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The AAW, Detroit, and the Future

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I see a parallel with the AAW and the automakers several years ago in Detroit. When GM, Ford, and Chrysler were the dominant carmakers and Toyota and Honda were not known to the American market, Detroit could take the attitude that the public will buy what we produce. They ignored the small car market and produced bigger and more expensive cars. The rest is history. Detroit got its fanny kicked and they may never recover from their arrogance and indifference to what the American public wanted. Members of the AAW are speaking loudly and clearly and stating that the AAW should be about WOODTURNING and not art that is not woodturning and the AAW should be devoid of politics of any stripe.

I attended the Symposium and like Rear Admiral Duffy, I was offended by the political statement that was in the Instant Gallery. It had no place there. I spoke IN PRIVATE to two AAW Board members and was given the "Free Speech" excuse for their inability to stand up and do what was right. I don't want to see ANY politics in the IG. People may post what they want on the walls outside the IG, thereby exercising the right to free speech, but inside should be WOODTURNING and nothing else. The Board members suggested that I write a letter to the Board. I indicated rather quickly that it would be a waste of time because the Board doesn't give a rat's fanny about what I or any other member thinks. (Hello, Detroit!)

Has anyone given INTELLIGENT thought to the demographics of the AAW and what is down the road? Folks, a good look around tells us quickly that we are the Gray Panthers and they don't make enough hair dye to hide that fact. And it is a predominantly male population - so many of the members are veterans who have served in the military. And some of the female members may also have served. It is MY conservative GUESSTIMATE that 75% of the members would be offended by the statement that was allowed to lie around in the IG and that they would also prefer NO POLITICS be allowed in the IG.

The work of a young French woodturner was honored by the AAW. I consider him to be a friend of mine since he was on the Boxmakers SIN panel. I like his work. He had three groupings in the Instant Gallery: a tall pair of turned boxes, a set of three medium turned boxes, and a pair of rectangular columns which had two turned dimples on them. The elegant boxes THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHOSEN were bypassed for the rectangular pair that were in no way representative of turned work. When is the AAW going to get it? Folks, it's about woodturning! I am delighted that this artist's work was honored, but honor his best work - his woodturning!

I have a pessimistic view of the future for woodturning and I predict the decline of the AAW. As the old geezers, myself included, die off the lack of shop in high school is generating a population that will not look to woodturning for recreation nor as a vocation. I can't predict when the decline will start but it can't be more than ten or fifteen years from now. Efforts to make AAW membership mandatory for all members of new clubs was apparently roundly booed by chapter representatives at the chapter meeting. This high-handed approach will not improve things. The AAW is riding the crest now, but the wave is coming ashore.

I have on occasion been viewed as the one most likely to spot a pothole ahead. Valid or not, I see potential potholes down the road that should be avoided or addressed. I will try to state some in a positive manner.
1. Keep the Main Thing the Main Thing. It's about woodturning.
2. There should be an absolute ban on all political statements in the Instant Gallery or other AAW venues. The majority of the members would support such a ban and they have rights too.
3. Nepotism should be avoided at all costs. No wives, husbands, partners, nor family members should be hired by Board members to work for the AAW.
4. Folks, we are supposed to be playing on the same team. Why did I leave Richmond with a sense that the AAW Board "has an attitude"? The agenda of Board members and the members should be woodturning, not art, and not politics, and not advancing some social agenda.

Food for thought: What would happen if a group of woodturners started an organization that adopted the positions that I have advocated? At what point would Detroit start to listen?

Ed

Professor Emeritus
United States Naval Academy
 
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I couldn't agree more with almost everything in your post save for being offended by the piece. Just like you, I firmly believe the statement was made in the wrong place. Everyone can have their own take on what's going on today, and being able to speak their minds is why I spent 20 years of my life serving, but the AAW symposium functions are not a place to do so. Our board's desire to be PC at all times and include everything is no excuse for allowing members to hijack events for their own purposes.

I don't have a pessimistic view of the future of woodturning, but I do have a negative one for the future of the AAW. Your analogy is very appropriate, but I've got to point out that our board is elected by us. The general public never had a say on the leadership of any Detroit corporations. If you and Mr. Duffy (he and I are very retired) have such strong feelings, I'd suggest you run for board membership and implement some changes. I'd vote for either of you.
 
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I recall reading that in the future the board members (most of whom are still active woodturners) will have much less of a day to day role in the AAW operations. The AAW will apparently be run by "professional" administrators, like Larry Sommer.

I may be way off base here, but I've read nothing about Larry Sommers experience as a woodturner. I couldn't find a gallery on the forum with examples of his woodturning. Does Mr. Sommer have any personal experience as a woodturner? If the answer is no, that would certainly explain some of the current confusion regarding what the AAW actually considers a "woodturning" these days.

Considering other writings by Mr. Sommer, it wouldn't surprise me to see the AAW morph into the IAWA in the not too distant future (International Association of Wood Artists). It also wouldn't surprise me to see some newer organization start up to fill the void left when the AAW abandons woodturners to pursue those "higher value" artsy market niches.

Ed
 
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If you and Mr. Duffy (he and I are very retired) have such strong feelings, I'd suggest you run for board membership and implement some changes. I'd vote for either of you.

Anyone can run for the board. Only problem is that the current board "committee" chooses the group of finalists that can be voted on. They narrow the list down from all submissions to their final list.
 
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Very strange. When I started reading the analogy comparing the AAW and Detroit, I assumed that the point would be that the AAW needed to be less conservative and more inclusive of new directions in turning. That is the point of what happened with Detroit: the carmakers had in fact become too set in their ways, and not responsive to the buying public.
Here is where Lathe Meister's use of the analogy breaks down. We the members of the AAW are not the buying public; we are the "carmakers." We produce works of craft/art for our own enjoyment, but also for the enjoyment of others. And for many members, also with hope that a "buying public" will find the work worthy of purchase.
I for one think it good that we as turners are exposed to all the current trends and that, yes, these trends be recognized. I do not have to admire, emulate, or even like these trends. But maybe I will see something that will inspire me to try something outside my comfort zone. And if you look at all that is included in the AAW magazine, or elsewhere under the imprimatur of the AAW, the vast majority is what still could be considered "conservative."
However, I do agree on the issue of a "professional" administration for the AAW. Using the Detroit analogy again, it is analogous to turning the running of the car companies over to the "bean counters": There is the idea that managers can manage any venture, no matter what expertice the person may have. We all saw how well that worked with putting a horse-show administrator in charge of FEMA before Katrina.
 
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I... I'd suggest you run for board membership and implement some changes. I'd vote for either of you.

What he said

If you think something needs to be done, DO IT, other wise you are just flapping your lips

If I think something needs doing, I do it:
  • Right now the AAW is the only club I'm a member of that I haven't been an officer in (since being an officer in my local turning club doesn't count).
  • I've also been on the BoD of two (different) 501C3's.
  • If you can't/don't get on the BoD, volunteer for some comittees, many policy matters are decided there, but a LOT of the real work gets down by them (I've lost count of the number of these I've been on)

TTFN
Ralph
 

Bill Grumbine

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Ed Moore said:
I spoke IN PRIVATE to two AAW Board members and was given the "Free Speech" excuse for their inability to stand up and do what was right.

I've gotten the brush off from one of the board members myself. I even walked up to the guy and shook hands with him at the symposium. I got the impression he wanted to go wash his hands right away. Second brush off.

Wow!!!

The opinions expressed in this thread really have my blood boiling!!!

I'd better step back and calm down before responding!

A

Well, this is what the forum is here for, isn't it, to express opinions? You do want feedback, don't you? My encounter with a board member though, gave me the very distinct impression that if the feedback wasn't positive, it wasn't worthwhile.

I've been a demonstrator in over 30 clubs in the past couple of years, and for the vast majority of them, membership in the national organization is less than 50%. It seems to me that the board might be interested in finding out why that is, rather than try to institute mandatory membership to grow the organization. I've mentioned this in the past only to be rebuffed. So my conclusion is that no one is really interested in hearing what I have to say, and by extension, hearing what others have to say about why they won't join.

I raised the political issue privately with a board member, only to get an unrelated discourse on how good the journal is. Conclusion? The board is not interested in hearing about it.

I am a professional woodworker. Most of my income comes from turning, teaching turning, and videos on turning. And, I am outspoken enough to speak out. But I am rebuffed by the leadership of the largest turning organization in the world when I have a suggestion or a comment I want to discuss. How do you think that attitude is going to play with the average person who just wants to have fun and relax with this hobby? Do you think they want politics shoved in their face? Do you think they want to pay money to an organization with an unresponsive board?

Issues like Ed raises need to be addressed. At the very least, the leadership of the organization needs to acknowledge that the exist. Playing the part of the ostrich is not going to make them go away.
 
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The question I would ask is "How many goals and objectives can the AAW have before it's efforts become so diluted that it is not really meeting anyone's needs." Is the purpose of the AAW to foster a wider understanding and appreciation of lathe-turning as a traditional and contemporary craft and a form of art (taken from the AAW bylaws) or is the purpose to increase the marketability of products produced by members of the AAW, whose production may or may not involve the use of a lathe in any significant manner..

If you answer is "both", then I think we have a problem with the way the organization is currently organized and operating. An organization with a focus on use of a lathe as the the predominant unifying characteristic of the membeship will be a very different organization than one that is focused on making money by producing whatever people will pay top dollar for as the predominant unifying characteristic of the membership.

Ed
 

john lucas

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I'm confused. There were 1000 different turning in the instant gallery. There were samples of just about everything you could imagine. Like many of you I found some I liked, some I didn't like and some I just passed by. So what's the big deal. We are wasting a lot of space fussing about 2 pieces. One I simply didn't agree with so I passed it by. The other one being discussed I liked very much. I'm sure there were many other people who did the same.
I also heard the statement "is this a turning show or carving show" while I was walking the instant gallery. This argument gets tiring also. I've been turning for 20 years or so. I've made my share of bowls, vessels and boxes, 90 percent of which were round. I got bored with this and started carving and painting. How many others have done the same thing. Unlike Detroit, I changed with the times. That doesn't mean you have to, it only means that I should have the right to do so. Your market may be bowls or boxes and that's fine. In my market bowls don't sell as well so I make other things. My rectangular boxes sell better than my round ones so that's where I go. Is there anything wrong with that.
The AAW continues to grow. Someone's doing something right. I may not agree with all of the decisions but then who does in an organization this large. We are simply a very diverse group of people from factory workers and farmers to lawyers and doctors. You don't think there will be some differences of opinion. With all this diversity there are going to be different styles of woodturning. It sounds to me like you want us all to be the same.
 
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What he said

If you think something needs to be done, DO IT, other wise you are just flapping your lips

Ralph


In a perfect world that might be a viable solution. In the real world, people are more likely to vote with their feet. If the AAW becomes irrelevant then people will move on to something that is more relevant. People unhappy with GM / Ford didn't campaign to become a member of the board. They took their money elsewhere.

Are there enough professional wood "artists" in the world to sustain the organizaiton if the woodturners decide to move on?

Ed
 
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Volunteering

Ralph,

The Smith Mountain Lake Woodturners started at a party held in my home. For several years I was the Program Director and I never took a penny for hosting woodturners. I did accept gas money when I drove a turner to Arrowmont after a demo.

Now the Blue Ridge Woodturners asked me to serve as Program Director for them. I agreed to do so with the proviso that Willie Simmons serve as co-Director.

I ran the Boxmakers SIN event in Richmond (with Mike Stafford's able assistance) and received encouragement and support from the Board, with one exception, and that exception turned out not to matter.

So, Ralph, I have put my money where my mouth is, so to speak and I have not just flapped my lips. My health would not permit me to take on the stress of serving as an AAW Board member. Besides, wasn't it Groucho Marx that said he wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have him. :D Carry that over to serving on a Board.

Bill, thanks for your support.

Angelo, think about what is written, wait a day or so, and then respond. Maybe I am just trying to help the AAW avoid a pothole.
 
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Excellent!

In a perfect world that might be a viable solution. In the real world, people are more likely to vote with their feet. If the AAW becomes irrelevant then people will move on to something that is more relevant. People unhappy with GM / Ford didn't campaign to become a member of the board. They took their money elsewhere.

Are there enough professional wood "artists" in the world to sustain the organizaiton if the woodturners decide to move on?

Ed

Ed,

You have made the point explicitly that I was trying to make implicitly. Thank you. It is the voting with their feet that I am trying to help avoid. It probably won't be seen that way by Board members, but maybe some will open their eyes. The naive will probably attack me. :rolleyes:

Thank you, again.
 
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The board

Perfectly spoken Ed. The change to accepting political statements is coming from one board member. The board member that personally approved the entry. From another site quote:

"As the AAW board member that oversaw the IG, I suppose I could have rejected the piece in question, but quite frankly, it never occurred to me to be that close-minded or intolerant. I looked at the piece, I read a few lines, I said to myself, “Well, this is differentâ€, and then I moved on. I didn’t bother to read the whole document or even more than a few of the statements that were printed on the bowl (perhaps I should have). I have my views on our country’s current situation and I didn’t need anyone else trying to change those views (at least not right then). I never saw any kind of crowd around the piece; quite honestly, I don’t think very many people took the time to study the piece. I didn’t see mothers covering their children’s eyes and again, quite frankly, I was not offended (more amused perhaps at a weak attempt to make a statement). To censor an entry in the AAW Instant Gallery, I think the piece would have to be much more offensive that what I witnessed."

He was amused by it because he also has posted the same polictcal views with a turning.

Men
in the
Shadows
I hope the emotional turmoil over Gerrit's "Rack 'em Up" piece has settled down and folks can consider another "political" offering. This was inspired by the Jackson Browne song, "Lives in the Balance". This anti-war song was written in 1986, but the lyrics ring as true today as 10 years ago. The song lines that got my juices flowing are...

"I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why"

To read all of the song lyrics, here is a link:

"Lives in the Balance" lyrics

Or better yet, to hear the song along with an editorial video, you can visit this site. Warning: this is a very disturbing video, which will (should) upset you. For some reason, you have to click "play" twice.

Anti-war Video
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info:80/article11924.htm

While this piece is a woodturning, it is also an "anti-war" statement. It's not an "anti-military" statement. It's not an "anti-Bush" statement. It's not meant to disrespect anyone other than those people, on all sides, who stay in the shadows and pull the strings that result in death and destruction. I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong, just that war is wrong. I'm not interested in identifying the individual "men"; I think they exist in most societies. I just want people to spend a little more time asking them "why".

Specs: Curly maple, gabon ebony, Texas ebony, holly, white-dyed maple veneer, 14" tall, finished with General Finishes Seal-a-Cell and Top Coat.


His only regret of his own turning :

Quote" instead of broken bricks at the lower portion of the vessel, perhaps I should have displayed body parts. I actually considered using some bloodwood in the “chaos†section. Maybe if I had used a darker wood for the eyes it would have projected a different feeling. The ultimate challenge in a piece like this is not the accuracy of the joinery; it's the successful portrayal of a message - not easy, but worth trying."

His personal views are shaping the direction the AAW is going. If you don't like this change, remove this board member.

Charles Sheffy
Ret Col USMC
 
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Too Much

Boys

We got too many topics tangled up here and its seems like everybody wants somebody else to do something.

Politics and the ofensive write up. First of I like politics, speak it often but it just doesn't work here for me so I tyr to stay out of it. Those of you that were in Richmond and offended by the political write-up accompanying the piece could have easily descreetly pick up the oh so offensive piece of paper and slipped it under the table or stuck in your pocket and made sure it got recycled. Grow some cahonays

BOD - they are volunteers, they hire management, guide management and set policy. (and alot of other duties when it comes to the symposium) They hired Larry to manage not give turning demos. Larry's skills with a skew are irrelevant.

Dues - If as has been predicted all the old guys die and quit paying dues our dues are going to increase or services cut. If every chapter member enjoyed the benefits of full membership maybe our dues could be less. Going to club meeting but not joining AAW is kind of like going to church and not throwing your two cents in the basket. (please don't start another thread about religion on the forum)

What's woodturning? I am working on a concept where I will turn items that contain very little wood. If it works as I invision it maybe the 'art' look that will give me opportunites to demo, exhibit in more prestious places or maybe it will just be something different to give friends and family. Whatever I am enjoying the investigation and experimentation. If it works and I post a picture here or submit it to an IG next year will I have to sacrifice my membership card because it is not all wood that I turned?

I was looking forward to reading about all the great things at the Symposium that I missed. Being no one is willing to share that I think I'll take a break from this forum for awhile.

Frank
 
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Art

Charles,
It is strictly about woodturning. This is the piece being discussed.
If you consider this turned art, so be it. I consider it making a
political statement period.
 

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Steve Worcester

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All this hooplah over that? Did you also find it offensive that the piece was named after a Dixie Chicks song? (Not ready to make nice).

Did you read the whole piece? There are many statements on there and I think you are missing a point about art should at times incite action and emotions. (Perhaps not as you are "incited").If you look at the whole piece it is far more about political issues and not just about war, or Bush, or any singular subject.

(I will say this again - I am not an AAW board member or employee) I found nothing offensive about it at all and if you looked carefully, this is not the first piece in an instant gallery that could have been deemed offensive to some, but this one didn't require you to thing, just read.

There is no place for censorship in art. And like it or not, if you don't promote woodturning as an art form, it cannot survive into the future.
 

John Van Domelen

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Steve - this speaks directly to that point.

This comment was posted on another forum in a topic discussing the original post yesterday.

"I liked the piece in question. I went back to it several times to try to gain a full understanding of the message. The color, the design, the "rough" execution all worked together to reveal a work that obviously was produced with a great deal of emotion. I am against censorship in any form at AAW. This is a test for our professional organization. We can put on exhibitions that offend no one or we can have the foresight to understand that, if we are ever to move forward into the serious art world, we need to use our vast membership as a pool for new ideas. If we become vapid and politically correct we will be cjhoosing a different future where it will likely take a lot longer for woodturning to become accepted by the larger art world as a legitimate art movement. I think a lot is at stake here. I hope we do not accept censorship."

-- Jim Christiansen - Jun 30, 2008
 
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Steve - People can speak for themselves, but from what I've read on this (and other threads) it's not the actual piece that people are objecting to, rather it's the written statement that was displayed along with it.

As far as censorship and art is concerned, art galleries / musuems make decisions all the time about what will and won't be sold / displayed. Why shouldn't the AAW have just as much discretion (assuming a willingness to exercise such discretion (which seem to missing at the moment)).

All that aside, the real issue for me in what you wrote is your summation.

...And like it or not, if you don't promote woodturning as an art form, it cannot survive into the future.

Woodturning has been around for centuries. Woodturning will continue to exist whether the AAW expands it's charter to include a broader definition of wood art or not. What may be at risk are the AAW grand plans for continued expansion and growth of the organization into the future.

I think a reasonable person could ask whether non-stop growth of the AAW at any expense is really in the best interests of woodturners. I have my doubts.

Ed
 
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This comment was posted on another forum in a topic discussing the original post yesterday.

"I liked the piece in question. I went back to it several times to try to gain a full understanding of the message. The color, the design, the "rough" execution all worked together to reveal a work that obviously was produced with a great deal of emotion. I am against censorship in any form at AAW. This is a test for our professional organization. We can put on exhibitions that offend no one or we can have the foresight to understand that, if we are ever to move forward into the serious art world, we need to use our vast membership as a pool for new ideas. If we become vapid and politically correct we will be cjhoosing a different future where it will likely take a lot longer for woodturning to become accepted by the larger art world as a legitimate art movement. I think a lot is at stake here. I hope we do not accept censorship."

-- Jim Christiansen - Jun 30, 2008


Jovan - Is "moving forward into the serious art world", where pesumably a few very talented artists could make a lot more money with their creations, more important to the AAW than passing on the skills / knowledge of woodturning to new generations of turners well into the future? Personally, I don't think it is.

Are the two objectives mutually exlcusive? They very well may be if not handled appropriately.

Ed
 

John Van Domelen

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"As far as censorship and art is concerned, art galleries / musuems make decisions all the time about what will and won't be sold / displayed. Why shouldn't the AAW have just as much discretion (assuming a willingness to exercise such discretion (which seem to missing at the moment))." - Ed_McDonnell

Ed, that discretion was exercised. Malcolm stated in another thread that the work was observed and an assessment made to allow it to stay.

This is about not caving in to pressure from visitors to the gallery that found the work offensive. A decision was made, some people just don't like it...

There was a time in history that nudes were defaced and marred. Paintings had clothing added, phallus's were hacked off of marble statues, all because someone found them offensive. Sounds pretty silly now, but it is really no different than the censorship (from outside the team making the decisions) that is being advocated.

Today's controversies can become tomorrows classics.
 

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" Is "moving forward into the serious art world", where pesumably a few very talented artists could make a lot more money with their creations"

Ed, I disagree with your basic premise.

It is more thus I think: "A Tide on Which All Boats Rise" -- Claude Steele, 1996
 
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His personal views are shaping the direction the AAW is going. If you don't like this change, remove this board member.

Charles Sheffy
Ret Col USMC

Colonel Sheffy, I’ve known for a long time that it does little good to try to shake hands with a clinched fist, so I was reluctant to jump into this discussion. I attempted to find you in the AAW Resource Directory and then I tried to look you up in the WOW membership listing; I failed to find your email or phone number anywhere, so I'm force to respond here.

You and a few others have expressed strong opposition to one of your fellow woodturner’s efforts at making a political statement with his art. That is certainly your right and privilege as an American citizen and/or as an AAW member (I assume that you are a member). And if you don’t appreciate my own occasional attempt at making a social comment with my art, then that is also your right.

What I take exception to is the attempt to prevent your fellow member(s) from expressing themselves. I wonder what the general membership reaction would have been if I had removed this woodturning (or piece of paper) from the instant gallery. I’m quite confident that there would have been at least an equally strong expression of disgust.

While I certainly respect members of our society who have served our country for the benefit of all (I myself served during the Vietnam “conflictâ€), I don’t understand any attempt at reducing the freedoms which have cost us so much.

For the record, I have never in any way tried to influence the direction of the AAW or its board with any of my own personal opinions (political or otherwise). I have served with what I have always considered to be the best interest of all members as a whole. Someone must have thought that I had their best interest at heart during the last election. I will serve my term as elected or until asked by the board to resign. If you feel particularly passionate about my removal, then it is certainly within your rights to campaign for my removal. Quite frankly, I could use a break from the 100’s of hours annually that I dedicate to this organization that I dearly love.

Malcolm Tibbetts
AAW Board member (V.P.)
Richmond Instant Gallery Coordinator
 
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Malcolm - What if a piece had been entered along with a written statement advocating pedophilia or endorsing genocide in Darfur? Would you have felt just as strongly about protecting the freedom of expression of the "artist"?

I hope that in such a case that common sense would prevail over artistic freedom of expression. If in fact there are some "works of art" that the AAW could conceivably find too offensive to allow their display at AAW sanctioned events, then the issue is not censorship. The issue is where to draw the line.

If freedom of artistic expression is truly the ultimate goal of the AAW and "anything goes" is to be the policy, then perhaps that should be clearly spelled out to the membership so that each member can evaluate how the AAW is (or isn't) meeting their individual needs.

Ed
 
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Huh? WTF???

Charles,
It is strictly about woodturning. This is the piece being discussed.
If you consider this turned art, so be it. I consider it making a
political statement period.

If you find this piece so upsetting I guess you don't read many newspapers. This looks like a collection of headlines or quotes from the news.

It most certainly is a turned piece. Not unlike the work of Binh Pho. Do you find his work offensive? his thin-walled vessels are turned, then carved and painted, just like this piece. I saw a giant piece on the wall that had NO turning in it at all and was predominantly made up of cut out letters. THAT piece, in my mind, was not appropriate as it was in no way turned.

As far as the politics of the board, every organization has some kind of slant with their board. In fact, it is the board that usually cements my decision to leave an organization. We elect them, they get power crazed and all hell breaks loose.

Oh, BTW, By "Detroit" I assume you are referring to MEXICO? The majority of "American" labeled cars are made in Mexico. Both my Toyota Siennas on the other hand, where proudly made by Americans in Kentucky.

I never even saw this piece because I was too busy trying to get someone to help me with my purse being stolen. I found it extremely upsetting that no one helped me and that there was not better security in the gallery, especially when we were not permitted to hold our bags.

The symposium was a stellar event for me, but Richmond, VA is a run-down dump and I will never set foot in it again. It has been more than a week now and I still don't have a police report. They are demanding I show up in person if I want one.:confused:
 
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Malcolm - What if a piece had been entered along with a written statement advocating pedophilia or endorsing genocide in Darfur? Would you have felt just as strongly about protecting the freedom of expression of the "artist"?

I hope that in such a case that common sense would prevail over artistic freedom of expression. If in fact there are some "works of art" that the AAW could conceivably find too offensive to allow their display at AAW sanctioned events, then the issue is not censorship. The issue is where to draw the line.

If freedom of artistic expression is truly the ultimate goal of the AAW and "anything goes" is to be the policy, then perhaps that should be clearly spelled out to the membership so that each member can evaluate how the AAW is (or isn't) meeting their individual needs.

Ed

Ed, I don't think that I ever said that I support a policy of "anything goes". Actually, I’m on record as saying,

“To censor an entry in the AAW Instant Gallery, I think the piece would have to be much more offensive that what I witnessed.

This is just my personal view and in no way should it reflect on the remainder of the AAW board. When art galleries, even the AAW IG, start censoring anti-war statements, etc, I’ll know that our country is really sliding down a slippery slope.”


And just in case there’s any doubt, I posted this statement on another forum…

“During the Instant Gallery critique by Albert Lecoff, Steve Keeble, and Louise Hibbert, one piece was very favorably discussed because the maker had also displayed a series of "step by step" photos. In the panel's opinion, this really added to the enjoyment of the piece. In the case of my tribute piece to George Washington, I also displayed several additional items - a postcard from the 1930's showing the tree, a brochure from the 1932 George Washington Bi-centennial, and a copy of my recent journal article. Those documents helped explain my inspiration for creating the piece. In the case of this "political" piece, I accept the maker's desire to share his inspiration for making his piece. He didn't just put a picture on the table with a dead baby and overlay it with a "Stop War" banner. He created a "woodturning" and he displayed his inspiration for creating his woodturning. To agree or disagree with his views is every person's right, but I certainly applaud him for "taking a stance" and not being one of the millions who are so apathetic about what goes on in the world. He used his woodturning skills to “make a point”; expressing a “view” with art has been an accepted form of expression since almost the beginning of time. I’m really having a difficult time understanding why there seems to be so much resentment against this “woodturner” or against his including a few paragraphs of text next to his art.”

This discussion has gone in enough circles, so I will no longer participate in this thread; it's gone no where and it's unlikely to change anyone's view. I will however respond to any emails at: malcolm@tahoeturner.com
 
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Wow!

My, my, my...a review of this string of passion will find - turners who are green; - turners who are dry; - thoughts that are segmented; - thoughts that are skewed; - ideas that are slick; - ideas used as a gouge; - and folks who are scrapers, but with ground and honed ideas.

I'd suggest that y'all lighten up, go find a piece of your favorite wood and turn something for the local hospital auction!
 
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I never even saw this piece because I was too busy trying to get someone to help me with my purse being stolen. I found it extremely upsetting that no one helped me and that there was not better security in the gallery, especially when we were not permitted to hold our bags.

The symposium was a stellar event for me, but Richmond, VA is a run-down dump and I will never set foot in it again. It has been more than a week now and I still don't have a police report. They are demanding I show up in person if I want one.:confused:

First of all, Richmond is not a run-down dump. It is like any other city with good and bad parts. Unfortunately the part of Richmond visitors are exposed to when attending events at the Convention Center is not a good part. I knew that eating and lodging would be an issue because of this.

The second part of your post disturbs me but also leaves a question. unanswered. Was your purse stolen while under the responsibility of the volunteers overseeing the Instant Gallery? Each time I left my bag at the entrance point I removed my wallet. There was no way I would even consider leaving valuables unattended especially my wallet. The police report is something you should pursue with Richmond officials.
 
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Some conclusions

I just rescanned the responses and I have a few observations:
1. Most of those who hollered "Free Speech!" the loudest wanted my post out of sight on the Back Porch. That certainly sounds like "Free speech for me, but not for you!", which is consistent.
2. Some don't know the difference between a reasoned discourse and a rant.
3. Most objections came from newbies with 4 posts. They know the answers, but do they understand the questions?
4. Twenty per cent of the membership looks down on and has disdain for eighty per cent of the membership. This is not healthy.
5. All some folks care about 80% of the membership is that they pay their dues so they (the 20%) may continue to enjoy good demos.
6. Some whose mantra is "Art uber alles!" failed to understand that all I was saying is "Art that is turned, please.".
7. Many failed to understand that my main point was "Folks may vote with their feet if we don't wake up and show them some respect." I should have stated this more directly.
8. Twenty per cent don't get it. Having the AAW choose art that is not turned is a slap in the face of the eighty per cent who want turned pieces selected. Reread #7.
9. Fortunately, I was spared vitriolic personal attacks. The worst that was said was that I should run for the Board. :D
 
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I seldom get involved in political discussions in this forum because it frustrates me to see how easily out of hand things can get. I, too, have served over 20 years in the Air Force from the Viet Nam era thru Desert Storm. I felt that I was defending the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I believe that we should hold our rights dearly. Nowhere in the Constitution is there a right that says we have a right to not be offended, but the Third Amendment states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

I did not see the piece in question and I may have also been offended by it, but I will never condone censorship because I'm made to feel anger or outrage. As Voltaire wrote, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

What if a piece had been entered along with a written statement advocating pedophilia or endorsing genocide in Darfur? Would you have felt just as strongly about protecting the freedom of expression of the "artist"?

This is a ridiculous arguement. You are trying to equate a political statement with crimes against humanity and felonious behavior. I won't dignify that analogy by commenting further.

As for the direction that the AAW is taking, I have to wonder where all of the concern was during the general membership meeting on Sunday morning at the Symposium. The meeting was held from 9:45 to 10:45 and did not conflict with any rotation. I don't have a full count of the attendance, but I believe there were more board members than regular members. Angelo and the rest of the board specifically asked the few of us in attendance, "What can the AAW do for the membership?" I was able to ask my questions and I received some very direct answers. In light of the tangent that this thread had(has) taken, I can't help but wonder why so few members stepped up to show any concern for the organization's direction in the venue that could have brought it to the board's attention. I also wonder that, givien the attendance, whether there is true concern for the AAW?
 
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Steve Worcester

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6. Some whose mantra is "Art uber alles!" failed to understand that all I was saying is "Art that is turned, please.".
7. Many failed to understand that my main point was "Folks may vote with their feet if we don't wake up and show them some respect." I should have stated this more directly.
8. Twenty per cent don't get it. Having the AAW choose art that is not turned is a slap in the face of the eighty per cent who want turned pieces selected. Reread #7.

I don't quite understand the %80/%20 I guess. But all of the art did use a lathe for some portion of it.
I am reading this as because the organizations title has woodturners in it, your real actual issue here is the works aren't just wood, or just worked on the lathe exclusively or are altered or combined with some other medium?
 
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blah..blah...blah... I did not see the piece in question and I may have also been offended by it, but I will never condone censorship because I'm made to feel anger or outrage. As Voltaire wrote, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Originally Posted by Ed_McDonnell
What if a piece had been entered along with a written statement advocating pedophilia or endorsing genocide in Darfur? Would you have felt just as strongly about protecting the freedom of expression of the "artist"?


This is a ridiculous arguement. You are trying to equate a political statement with crimes against humanity and felonious behavior. I won't dignify that analogy by commenting further....blah..blah..blah...


John - So to sum it up, you'll defend free speech to the death unless such speech crosses a line as defined by you. You apparently believe that it is ok to censor anything that crosses your line.

The only difference between you and the members you are trying to paint as enemies of free speech is where you draw the line on censorship. A failure to recognize that would be the ultimate in hypocrisy.

Ed
 
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accurate quote?

Steve,

You have quoted me inaccurately. The smiley was after #9, not #8. That creates a false impression.

Apparently you are trying to not understand me and you have succeeded. I have not objected to any substance used nor to any art. Many pieces are turned on a lathe and then embellished. Fine. Ed Kelle's excellent piece was turned on a lathe and then made to look like coral. Fine. The artist whose rectangular blocks were chosen had some elegant turned boxes that were not chosen. Why not choose his best work? In the IG I commented about this and was asked by a bystander where I would draw the line. I replied, "That's easy." and proceeded to draw an imaginary line with my finger between the two rectangular pieces and his turned work.

This isn't rocket science.
 
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Ed,

I did not intend to state that it could not "cross a line" as defined by me. There are moral issues at stake with your examples. Pedophilia is a CRIME. Genocide is a crime against humanity. They are in no way connected to political statements. The Supreme COurt ruled that under freedom of sppech, you cannot yell "Fire" in a crowded theater and cause a panic. Likewise, you cannot justiify, by any stretch of the imagination, supporting pedophilia.

I am not trying to paint anyone as an enemy of free speech. I stand by my statement quoting Voltaire. Yes, you have a right to express your opinion and I respect your opinion. Believe it or not, I may have even been offended by the piece in question. You are exercising your right of free speech just as I am expressing mine. I recognize that it may appear hypocritical to draw a line, but that's also part of being human. There's a little bit of hypocrit in all of us.

Please understand that I am in no way trying to diminish your opinions. I thank you and everyone else here for being willing to openly discuss these issues. That is truly what living in a free society is about.

Respectfully,
John
 
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Why deal with hypotheticals?

Ed,
At the next symposium, why not make a piece and decorate it with Roman alphabet characters, extolling your values and call it art. Add to it, any further explanation/description that you feel further embellishes and/or explains the "artistic" image you wish to invoke?
It would be a way for you to express yourself, and a chance for us to ignore your views (if we want to)... WAR IS GOOD... PERSONAL RIGHTS ARE FOR THOSE WHO AGREE WITH ME! (could be themes to work with).
Malcolm - What if a piece had been entered along with a written statement advocating pedophilia or endorsing genocide in Darfur? Would you have felt just as strongly about protecting the freedom of expression of the "artist"?

I hope that in such a case that common sense would prevail over artistic freedom of expression. If in fact there are some "works of art" that the AAW could conceivably find too offensive to allow their display at AAW sanctioned events, then the issue is not censorship. The issue is where to draw the line.

If freedom of artistic expression is truly the ultimate goal of the AAW and "anything goes" is to be the policy, then perhaps that should be clearly spelled out to the membership so that each member can evaluate how the AAW is (or isn't) meeting their individual needs.

Ed
I finally got a look at the piece, from the images posted here. It IS pointed, and has an ideological point of view (in the name of full disclosure, much of which I agree with), but art over CENTURIES has had political content, clearly this medium is more difficult, without words.
Free speech should be (IMO - humble or not) a goal for America, American, and the AAW. You (andI) have excercised it here.
 
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Ed,

I did not intend to state that it could not "cross a line" as defined by me. ... I recognize that it may appear hypocritical to draw a line, but that's also part of being human. There's a little bit of hypocrit in all of us.

Please understand that I am in no way trying to diminish your opinions. I thank you and everyone else here for being willing to openly discuss these issues. That is truly what living in a free society is about.

Respectfully,
John

John - Thanks for clarifying. Our positions are probably a lot closer than my postings on this topic might otherwise lead you to believe. I'm not sure that some of the more strident opponents of censorship posting here fully understand or accept that censorship at some level is what separates a civilized free society from barbaric anarchy.

Ed
 
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Ed,
At the next symposium, why not make a piece and decorate it with Roman alphabet characters, extolling your values and call it art. Add to it, any further explanation/description that you feel further embellishes and/or explains the "artistic" image you wish to invoke?
It would be a way for you to express yourself, and a chance for us to ignore your views (if we want to)... WAR IS GOOD... PERSONAL RIGHTS ARE FOR THOSE WHO AGREE WITH ME! (could be themes to work with).

George - Woodturning is a chance for me to escape from the troubling realities of life. Why would I want to drag politics, social issues, whatever into it? Having to confront what I'm trying to escape (whatever position is being taken) is a quick way to diminsh the joy of participation in this activity for me.

Ed
 
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