Gradient Photo Paper

[John Terefenko]

Does anyone know of a resonable place to buy some gradient background photo paper??? I think I would like to try this with my photos. Thanks

 

[flyrod444]

I think you already got this address from another site, but here it is again.
http://www.phototechinc.com/graduate.htm
Jack

 

[john lucas]

www.porters.com It's called Graduated background material on their website. These backgrounds are painted so they scratch really easily. Don't rotate your work while it's sitting down. pick it up and rotate it. Also don't slide the work on the back ground.

 

[Charles Henderson]

You can always give your business to your favorite local print shop. That's what I did.

 

[Vaughn]

Mentioned elsewhere, and Charles' post is on the same track, but I figure I'll add it here for others...

One inexpensive alternative is to make a gradient background JPG file and take it to Kinko's. They can print it on one of their large format printers for only a few bucks.

Here's a link to such a file...something I whipped up in about 15 seconds with Photoshop. The native size is 24" x 36", so it should print cleanly.

Gradient Background

Right click the link, then select "Save link as" or "Save Target As" (depending on your browser) to save the file on your computer.

 

[Bill Boehme]

There are two brands that are commonly used: Flotone and Varitone. There are a variety of graduated backgrounds, but for photographing woodturnings, only use a neutral background -- my favorites are Studio Gray and Thunder Gray Flotone available from B&H. The cost is about $40. A colored background will screw up the color of the wood royally. I think that the Flotone has a more uniform gradient than Varitone and seems to be more durable. It is a matte finish plastic material so it can be easily cleaned. It comes in three sizes, but the 31" X 43" should be satisfactory for almost all woodturnings.

Here are some set up suggestions:

1. Create a "sweep" for the background paper as shown in the attached figure. Formica and foam board can be used to make the sweep. It is important that the background make a very gradual transition from the horizontal table surface to the vertical wall. It would be a mistake to drape the background so that it follows the wall and table top with a small radius at the transition as that would result in a noticeable horizontal line across the image. The turning sits on the horizontal part of the background a few inches from the bottom edge. (BTW, the light end of the background goes at the bottom)

1. Lighting is very important. DO NOT use a head-on flash from the camera as that will ruin your image with a hard-edged shadow and a bright reflection off the turning. Also, it will flatten the image so that it does not appear to have any depth. There are various lighting techniques that will give good results. I think that the cheapest and possibly the best is indirect open-sky light, but it is not as controllable as studio lighting and requires a bit more knowledge of lighting techniques and white balancing. A light box is very easy and cheap to set up. Also, shooting a couple of hot lights into umbrella reflectors gives good results and is easy to set up, but the disadvantage is that it produces a couple of hot spots on the turning if it is glossy. If shooting indoors in a lightbox or with hot lights, turn off all of the room lights especially if they are fluorescents as they will make it impossible to get a proper white balance in addition to messing up the lighting in general.
2. Use a moderately long lens -- about 70 to 100 mm focal length if using an SLR camera. Place the camera about eight feet from the subject and use a very small aperture. I suggest f/11 to f/16. This is important to get sufficient depth of field so that the entire turning is in focus. This means that a very slow shutter speed is necessary so a tripod with a cable release is essential.
3. The camera location should be elevated about 10 to 15 degrees above the top of the turning so that the top opening is visible. However, this does not mean pointing the camera down because that would cause perspective distortion. Keep the camera aimed level -- or nearly level so that perspective distortion is minimized. If the camera is located eight feet from the subject then the camera should be approximately two feet above the turning.
4. If your camera allows you to do a custom white balance, shoot a white sheet of paper or gray card to create the custom setting. A gray card can be used for exposure or for a manual exposure.

 

[John Terefenko]

Ok I got my gradient paper yesterday and it came all rolled up in a tube. I pulled it out and tried to unroll it but it is so tightly wound it springs back every time. Now I do not want to ruin this expensive piece of plastic so my question for those that have this stuff how do you flatten it??? How do you store it??? How do you keep from scratching it??? I called the place I bought it and he told me he sold thousands of this stuff and I am the first to mention this problem. How those apples??? I told him to let his supplier know they are wrapping them wrong. Instead of wrapping top to bottom, they wrap them side to side. I would probably have an easier time with it curled top to bottom then side to side. Am I way out on a limb here or has this happened to others and how do you deal with it?? Thanks from confused and mad person.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

i understand

John,

i am not expert picture taker, but here's my way

put expandable window thingie in wide door frame
put card table underneath
drape your paper over window thingie onto card table
use hand clamps at top/sides of paper and on paper/card table
the paper can be draped white/gray/black or black/gray/white
place turning on paper/card table
take picture during daylight hours

take several pictures/man i love not having to pay for discarded images

good luck/this will get you started, certainly there are better ways

 

[Bill Boehme]

I do not worry about it curling since I put it back in the tube between uses. When using it, I use small pieces of gaffers tape (similar to Gorilla Tape or duct tape) to hold the edges flat. Small spring clamps could also be used. If you are going to keep it flat, make sure that you have a place to store it where it will not get dirty or be creased by some sharp edged object. Simply hanging it, clothesline style, with clips at the bottom for weight might work.

EDIT: John I reread your post and noticed that the background was rolled the wrong way! The guy probably says the same thing to everybody as a way of putting them off. If it were summertime, I would suggest putting it face down in the sun for a bit to "relax" the plastic, but maybe a hairdryer would also work.

Where did you buy the background, so I can make sure not to do business with them. Did you get Flotone, Varitone, or some other brand? I have read some online complaints about Varitone, but have no personal experience using it. The ones that I have are Flotone that I got from B&H (the most reputable dealer that you will find). There are hundreds of unscrupulous photo dealers on the Internet so I just deal with those that have a good reputation. Besides B&H, I can also highly recommend Adorama.

 

[Bill Boehme]

... the paper can be draped white/gray/black or black/gray/white ...

Charlie, the black goes at the top and white at the bottom. Otherwise, the perspective is going to look odd. The idea is to have the background fade into darkness to give the illusion of infinite depth. If you were shooting with a high key background, you would not expect to see the turning sitting on something black. Also, it is important to have shadows because it is one of the two things that give depth to a two-dimensional image (the other is perspective).

 

[john lucas]

Ours come curled. I simply use spring clamps to clamp it to the shooting surface and then I have a pole on stands that goes behind all of that. I use the same spring clamps to clamp it to that.
Ours come with a sheet of clear plastic over it. I always put that back over it when I roll it up. At least I do until they get marks on it, then I just use it and retouch the marks until I get sick of all the retouching.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Ours come curled. I simply use spring clamps to clamp it to the shooting surface and then I have a pole on stands that goes behind all of that. I use the same spring clamps to clamp it to that.
Ours come with a sheet of clear plastic over it. I always put that back over it when I roll it up. At least I do until they get marks on it, then I just use it and retouch the marks until I get sick of all the retouching.

After rereading John's post, I saw that he was saying that it was rolled side to side. Does yours come that way?

I could see that maybe the smallest size would be rolled that way since it is wider than tall, but the medium and large are taller than wide. I can appreciate that he is experiencing some difficulty. One solution is to have a small sheet of Formica countertop or something similar that will fully support the graduated background and then tape or clamp it around the edges.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I use a vinyl Flotone, it is rolled top to bottom.
The idea with a black to white fade is to give you a black background at the top of the photo that is easier to achieve with a background that with light control.

After spending a lot of time in college in the studio where you had all kinds of lighting and controls it is considerably easier in a home studio to do it with a graduated background.

I would also add to dust off the work before shooting. You would be surprised at how many people forget that part and the dust is very visible in the final shots. Photoshop will take care of some dust (and small dimples in the background) but not all.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Bill,

sometimes i like all black

could you tell me why this picture would look better with white/gray/black, not trying to hard headed, i am interested in your opinion which should improve my photos

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill,

sometimes i like all black

could you tell me why this picture would look better with white/gray/black, not trying to hard headed, i am interested in your opinion which should improve my photos

All black is good. That is what David Nittmann does with some of his basket illusion turnings and it really makes them pop.

It is important to use some "light modifiers" with tht type of background so that the object gets good shading to reveal its depth. I think that Jamie Donaldson's web site may have some information on that. Basically, it is the use of either black poster board or aluminum foil glued on cardboard to either block or reflect light. You can play around with it a bit and get the idea of how it changes the lighting.

 

[john lucas]

I gave up using the graduated backgrounds for 2 reasons. One was that they scratched too easily. The other reason is that white to black with "horizon line" at a certain point is not perfect for all work.
I use Thunder Gray most of the time now. In my studio it's pretty easy to control the amount of light that hits the background and where it hits. This way I can have it black, not quite black,very dark gray or even lighter gray. I can also place the faded horizon line exactly where I need it for that piece.
Of course if you shoot a black piece a fade to black has to be modified to separate the piece from the background.
When I teach using my photo booth I don't have all the light modifiers that have in my studio. I simply use cardboard to cast a shadow on the back ground. That gives me a darker back ground. If I want black I simply move the background further back. In technical terms light falls off with the square of the distance. Or simply put the further away from the light is from the background the darker it will be.
I wrote an article for American Woodturner (Summer 2002 Vol17 no2) where I used a piece of canvas. I spray painted the top 1/3 black. I then painted the lower 1/3 primer gray and faded it into the black. It didn't look very evenly faded when you stood over it but from the lower photo angle it looked as good as my expensive backgrounds.

 

[John Terefenko]

I got the Varitone and got it here. http://www.phototechinc.com/graduate.htm

The guy told me he sells 100's of these everyday and does not open the tubes. He is just a middle man. They are made in Taiwain. I probably would have a fighting chance if it were rolled top to bottom but side to side is not easy to secure. I would need a ton of clamps. He suggested rolling it up the opposite way and see what happens. I told him if I damage it I am sending it back so that he is aware of the problem. They are 31"X 43" I have put this question on a few forums and it was a toss up between the two brands that Bill mentions so I went with the least expensive.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I got the Varitone and got it here. http://www.phototechinc.com/graduate.htm

The guy told me he sells 100's of these everyday and does not open the tubes. He is just a middle man. They are made in Taiwain. I probably would have a fighting chance if it were rolled top to bottom but side to side is not easy to secure. I would need a ton of clamps. He suggested rolling it up the opposite way and see what happens. I told him if I damage it I am sending it back so that he is aware of the problem. They are 31"X 43" I have put this question on a few forums and it was a toss up between the two brands that Bill mentions so I went with the least expensive.

I am sorry to hear that, John. That is the same size as my Flotone background, but a thought just occurred to me. The Flotone background is 31 inches wide and 43 inches tall, but I think that Varitone may have two different versions -- one that is 43 inches wide and the other is 31 inches. If you got the 43 inch wide version, then it probably comes in the same size tube which means that it would be rolled side-to-side. (This is just a guess on my part).

For anybody else considering getting the medium size 31 X 43 make sure that it is the tall version and not the wide one. I have not run into a situation where I needed anything wider than 31 inches. And it is much more useful to have the extra height because it allows you to play around with the shape of the sweep curve and not be forced into making it too steep.

I looked at the website and I did not notice any horizontal format background in the medium size. Why would they use a longer tube and roll it side to side). My gut feel is that the guy is blowing smoke -- no physical address -- and claiming to sell hundreds of graduated backgrounds daily? -- not very likely. Since he does not have a physical presence, it is probably a one man operation in a self-storage warehouse. I tried to check him out on resellerratings.com, but can't verify the results that I got. There are many fly-by-night companies in the photo business that go under a number of different names and that is what popped up when I entered the business name. However, it could also easily be that many other companies use very similar names. I wouldn't buy from him just because of the red flags that popped up in my head (no address, cheesy web site, no written policies on returning merchandise, plus your experience in dealing with the gentleman*).

I think that the curl could be removed with hot air. So give him a call and then hold the phone next to the background while he talks. That should do the trick. A less stressful thing might be to use a blow dryer -- not as much hot air, but may eventually get the curl out.

* read my mind

 

[Bill Boehme]

I gave up using the graduated backgrounds for 2 reasons. One was that they scratched too easily. The other reason is that white to black with "horizon line" at a certain point is not perfect for all work.
I use Thunder Gray most of the time now. In my studio it's pretty easy to control the amount of light that hits the background and where it hits. This way I can have it black, not quite black,very dark gray or even lighter gray. I can also place the faded horizon line exactly where I need it for that piece.
Of course if you shoot a black piece a fade to black has to be modified to separate the piece from the background.
When I teach using my photo booth I don't have all the light modifiers that have in my studio. I simply use cardboard to cast a shadow on the back ground. That gives me a darker back ground. If I want black I simply move the background further back. In technical terms light falls off with the square of the distance. Or simply put the further away from the light is from the background the darker it will be.
I wrote an article for American Woodturner (Summer 2002 Vol17 no2) where I used a piece of canvas. I spray painted the top 1/3 black. I then painted the lower 1/3 primer gray and faded it into the black. It didn't look very evenly faded when you stood over it but from the lower photo angle it looked as good as my expensive backgrounds.

John, I don't know what brand you used, but the Flotone seems to be fairly durable. It can be scratched, so I try to be careful. My favorite is Studio Gray which goes from almost white at the bottom to about middle gray at the top. The graduation is outstanding with absolutely no noticeable changes along the way -- about as smooth a transition as one could expect. The other background is Thunder Gray which goes from roughly middle gray at the bottom to very dark gray at the top.

I prefer the lighter studio gray and find that it is very easy to control how dark the background is just by adjusting the lighting positions. I posted some links to my photo gallery in another thread where the background looks fairly light. Those were done with Studio gray background. Here is another of my images, In The Style of Mondrian, also done with the same Studio Gray background, but you can see that the darkness of the background is considerably different. The shadows made the transition a bit more abrupt than I would have preferred and I am not happy with the wire stand thingy, so I may reshoot that one. I also need to figure out a good way to get some light behind the platter so that the glass "windows" don't look quite so dark.

Your mention of light fall-off is the reason that I like to use a very gradual sweep for the background. It puts the top of the background quite some distance behind the turning. When I talked to Jamie Donaldson, he sort of pooh-poohed using anything fancier than just a simple roll of white paper or white window shade. Everybody has their own preferences and I can see the benefit of both. I like the graduated stuff just because it is fast and easy to set up without a lot of extra stuff needed. I may give his set-up a shot since it is so simple to do and costs very little -- some pieces of foam board, a window shade, some PVC pipe, duct tape, some cardboard, aluminum foil, and a halogen work light from Home Depot. Total cost is about $40.

 

[John Terefenko]

I am sorry to hear that, John. That is the same size as my Flotone background, but a thought just occurred to me. The Flotone background is 31 inches wide and 43 inches tall, but I think that Varitone may have two different versions -- one that is 43 inches wide and the other is 31 inches. If you got the 43 inch wide version, then it probably comes in the same size tube which means that it would be rolled side-to-side. (This is just a guess on my part).

For anybody else considering getting the medium size 31 X 43 make sure that it is the tall version and not the wide one. I have not run into a situation where I needed anything wider than 31 inches. And it is much more useful to have the extra height because it allows you to play around with the shape of the sweep curve and not be forced into making it too steep.

I looked at the website and I did not notice any horizontal format background in the medium size. Why would they use a longer tube and roll it side to side). My gut feel is that the guy is blowing smoke -- no physical address -- and claiming to sell hundreds of graduated backgrounds daily? -- not very likely. Since he does not have a physical presence, it is probably a one man operation in a self-storage warehouse. I tried to check him out on resellerratings.com, but can't verify the results that I got. There are many fly-by-night companies in the photo business that go under a number of different names and that is what popped up when I entered the business name. However, it could also easily be that many other companies use very similar names. I wouldn't buy from him just because of the red flags that popped up in my head (no address, cheesy web site, no written policies on returning merchandise, plus your experience in dealing with the gentleman*).

I think that the curl could be removed with hot air. So give him a call and then hold the phone next to the background while he talks. That should do the trick. A less stressful thing might be to use a blow dryer -- not as much hot air, but may eventually get the curl out.

* read my mind

Bill

The paper is 31 wide and 43 long. That is what I told the guy why would they roll it that way. There is an address, phone number web site and the whole nine yards. They claim to be in business since 1958. I don't know how much I am going to use it. I may just use my old stand by photo tent and cloth background. I am not looking for studio perfect photos. Just was after something in case I decide to make a web site and wanted decent photos. Heck I still use a point and shoot camera. I am going to try some heat on it and see if that will relax it. Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[KurtB]

John,
I bought one of the gradient backgrounds, and, like yours, it was rolled and in a cardboard tube. At first the curl bothered me, but I learned that if I use a pair of small spring clamps to attach it to the top of my photo cube, I can unroll it and put some weight on it at the bottom front and it works just fine. I don't trust storing it any other way than back in the tube for protection. Just a thought - you might be able to find a larger diameter tube that would allow it to relax a bit more while still offering protection.

 

[John Terefenko]

Thanks Kurt. I will probably store it in the tube again but what has me so bugged is why so tightly wrapped and why is it wrapped side to side and not top to bottom. If it were top to bottom I can do as you say clamp to something and just roll it down. But side to side presents alot more challanges because you also have to allow a gradual curve. Not sure if this was money well spent. Jury is still out on this.

 

[Clifton C]

John T, Just as an FYI, I found cardboard tubes for the picking from the place I bought a rug. (had to cut to length) Better tubes (lighter) were found at a drafting supply house, went there to buy a gallon of ammonia for fuming...You might be able to find a larger tube at one of these places for storage of your background...and if you have leftovers you can make a didgeridoo.

cc

 

[Bill Boehme]

John, what diameter tube did your background come in? The Flotone comes in a thick-walled four inch diameter tube which does not seem to be too bad. If it were in a tiny tube, that would be a problem. You could always buy a section of PVC sewer pipe to store yours if the diameter is too small.

Don't give up on the background paper -- it actually is easier to use and produces better results, in my opinion, than a light tent, if it is one of those tiny ones. Also, your camera is just fine. Don't think that a fancy camera is needed to get good results or that your camera is not worth having a good lighting set up. Far more significant than the camera is the effort that one puts into making a good image.

I've always wanted to make a didgeridoo -- where can I go to get lessons on playing it?

 

[Joe Greiner]

Cardboard Tubes

Newsprint cores. 4-inch OD, 1/2" wall, standard lengths up to 46". Free, or nominal cost, at local newspaper printing plants, copious amounts daily. Phone ahead. Also useful for custom-made turning fixtures, forming voids in concrete, and God knows what else. And usually about 1/4" thick (about 100 ft linear) of blank paper left on the roll, because new rolls are applied at full speed of about 30mph.

 

[John Terefenko]

Ok here is the latest on my paper. I was able to put some heat on it using a heat gun yesterday and was at least able to get it to roll out enough that I was able to put it on the carpeted floor next to a radiator. Believe me when I tell you this was a chore. It took 2 people to do this because the curl was so tight. You may think I am exagerating but I am not. The results are it is now at least managable where I can now roll it top to bottom and place it back in the tube. Hopefully this will get it to shape the other way. The tubes is a heavy duty tube and is about 4" in diameter. The paper itself looks like a good quality plastic but I can see where it can mar easily if not careful. It also smells pretty bad and I am guessing from the color printing stuff on it. But even that has disapated somewhat.

It looks like I will be keeping it and giving it a try with some photos and now will have to improve my photo taking abilities.

Thanks all for your help and support and Joe that is a great idea with the tubes. It is amazing how we as turners or woodworkers in general look at things lying around differently and how the mind works. We are constanly thinking I can use this to do this or you file these things away in the back of the brain. The one problem with me there is so much other junk in the back of the brain and the older I get the brain is erasing too many things

Thanks again and have a great day.

 

[Bill Boehme]

If the tube that John got was tiny, I think that may explain why it was rolled side to side -- if they had rolled it from top to bottom, they probably could not have crammed it into a soda straw size tube. That also explains the extreme curl that he is seeing. The inside diameter of the Flotone tubes is 3 13/16 inches. I have never had a problem with curl. Once I remove the background material, it only requires minimal taping to get it to stay where I want it to stay. I think that a large diameter tube is what John needs provided that he ever manages to get the material to lie flat.

 

[Robert Manning]

In the masonry section at Home Depot they sell carboard tubes for forming concrete columns. I have seen 12" diam. and 6" diam. there, but many more sizes are available.

Paper is manufactured with it's grain running in one direction, just like wood. If you take a flat sheet and gently bend it, you will soon find which way the grain runs, as it bends more easily in one direction. This knowledge can be used to advantage when working with paper.

 

[Mark Hubl]

Tube for Storage

A source for tubes for storage, try a Kinkos or UPS store, Container Store. The USPS has triangular "tubes" for shipping rolled materials, and you can get them for free.

P.S. I just purchased a 40 x 60 graduated sheet on ebay. Looks like off brand. Will review here upon arrival.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I think that I like Robert's suggestion of a really large diameter tube.

John, I know that something like that can be terribly frustrating. After all of that ordeal, I might just be tempted to let it just hang out flat somewhere. I would do that except that I occasionally need to take it to a club meeting if the person who normally does our instant gallery photos is not gong to be there. We are able to store some stuff at the community center where we meet, but we have hit the limit on what they will let us store.

Robert the background material is some sort of plastic -- probably PVC, so I do not know how this compares to paper when it comes to flattening other than neither seems to behave the way one would like.

 

[Robert Manning]

Thanks, Bill, I've been using a sheet of white paper that I get at Michael's for half a buck. When it gets too grungy, I just buy a new one and use the old one for masking paper. It's white index stock.

I have been thinking about spraying some dye on a sheet of paper to make one gradated and then spray Krylon Workable Fixatif over that to protect it (which is exactly what fixatif is for).

I was unaware that those gradated backgrounds were available in plastic. That sounds cleanable, but they are pricey. Do they have a reflective sheen?

Best wishes,

Robert

 

[Bill Boehme]

The finish on Flotone is quite flat -- maybe just a hint of satin. It is laid down with a swept-back curve which means that the lights should not create any problem with reflection. White background paper can be used to produce a gray appearance if it sweeps back far enough and the lights are kept off of it.

The way that automobile painters create a graduated blend of colors is to lay down the lighter color and then feather in the darker color -- increasing the amount as they work towards the darker area. They may also shoot some reducer over the feathered area to help with blending. They probably also do incremental mixing if doing a really top quality job. I would guess that this requires a lot of skill to do it well. My only effort with poster board looked terribly blotchy.

The backgrounds are cleanable, but things can scratch the finish such as grit or a turning with a rough bottom so do not slide things around -- just gently pick them up and set them down. Occasionally, wipe clean with a damp cloth -- if necessary some dish detergent can be used on something sticky or oily. Considering the cost of materials and likelihood of good results from a DIY project, $40 is not too bad for a ready made 31 X 43 background. Everything related to photography is overpriced.

 

[John Terefenko]

Yes they are plastic and as Bill has mentioned is more flat in color with a hint of satin and the idea of not getting glare is what I liked. I have tried using the black marble tile for effect and am not sold on that so I put that on the side and will try this. I do not have large turnings so I can not do experimenting with those yet. I mainly do small items like pens and ornaments for now but will doing some clocks as per my other posts. I do alot of scrollsawing items and wanted to try the paper with them. I need to work on the lighting thing and all that too. Photography is a whole field in itself. I only wish I had more time to do all the things I would like to do but I am afraid I will be dead and buried before my appetite will be quenched.

As far as storing laying flat or hanging somewhere that will not happen. No room for that. Like I said if I can get it to relax and be abled to roll and unrollfrom top to bottom I can deal with it. I am thinking of making a collapsible bracket so I can clamp it right in place and have a place for my lights and all. Just some thought running through my head again.

Right now we are bracing for a huge snow storm that can keep us busy for a couple days. Glad it is the weekend.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Robert, see the sketch that I did in post #6 for an approximate idea of how to lay out the graduated background. The sketch is not really precise, but just gives the general idea. The main idea is that you don't want to just hang it straight on the wall or to have it laying flat on the table and then suddenly go vertical on the wall because that will show up as a very pronounced line in the photo.

 

[Vaughn]

In the masonry section at Home Depot they sell carboard tubes for forming concrete columns. I have seen 12" diam. and 6" diam. there, but many more sizes are available...

The Sonotubes I've seen were all coated with a thick paraffin-type wax, used as a form release agent. I don't think I'd want my plastic gradient backdrop to come in contact with the wax. I've learned the hard way that soft waxes (like Quake Hold) will stain the backdrop.

 

[Robert Manning]

That's a good point, Vaughn. The tubes I got at HD, were not the Sonotube brand, and a lot cheaper. I don't remember them having a coating, but if they do, the solution, of course, would be to line it with something, if that's worth it.

Bill, your #6 sketch looks like a studio I used to work with. They built a cove at the floor out of 1/8" luan plywood and feathered it into the wall and floor with joint compound and then painted it white for that seamless effect. They had the whole building dedicated for photography, so they could keep the background at a distance to control the darkness. The models had to change in the darkroom.

Product photography, such as woodturnings, was generally shot with 4" x 5" Ektachrome and models were generally shot with 2 1/4" wide roll film. If we wanted to enhance red and yellow, then Kodachrome was the answer. 35mm was really looked down upon for reproduction purposes because it was so hard to keep clean with enlargements. For 35mm to work, it just had to be of extraordinary quality and it rarely was. The other reason was that the studios would duplicate photos so many times that we might be working with fourth or fifth generation images, and with 35mm, well, the quality would just start to fall apart. Sometimes I would receive 8" x 10" or even larger color transparencies with the quality on those being less than ideal. I think they were enlarged from smaller formats to impress studio execs. Everything was at a furious pace so there was less than ideal control with the stills. That's all history, now with the advent of digital photography, which has provided a giant leap in quality for every day photographic production.

 

[Joe Greiner]

Blue Screen?

How about blue screen? Now actually green, but still called "blue" because an earlier Kodak film had a stepwise response curve at blue. Extensively used in traveling-mat optical printing for movies.

My neighbor is a video producer, and claims he can put anybody anywhere, any time. You see this every day, on the TV weather forecasts. It can be made as weird as you like, too.

Shoot the piece in a green room, and add the separately-shot background in software. The background could even be built in software alone.

 

[Robert Manning]

Before digital, there were many processes that could be classified as better photography through chemistry. One process was where the film emulsion was separated from the clear film, like a decal, and floated off in a liquid, and then transfered onto another transparency. There was little margin for error with this technique.

I knew a photo retoucher who lived a block from the Warner Brothers lot, and he was actually able to do some retouching on 35mm slides, but it was not recommended. One of the basic techniques was to mask off a transparency, and then etch a section of the image back to clear film, then either paint or airbrush the image to whatever was needed. Again, there was no redo button. It's so much easier and forgiving now.

 

[Joe Greiner]

How about blue screen? Now actually green, but still called "blue" because an earlier Kodak film had a stepwise response curve at blue. Extensively used in traveling-mat optical printing for movies.

My neighbor is a video producer, and claims he can put anybody anywhere, any time. You see this every day, on the TV weather forecasts. It can be made as weird as you like, too.

Shoot the piece in a green room, and add the separately-shot background in software. The background could even be built in software alone.

Like these.

Bear in mind, this was a quick experiment - about 2 hours total. And the Photoshop guru was in some unfamiliar territory too. He preferred a mirror for the first two, to protect the carpeted floor, with reflections removed by hand. Also more hand erasing in the second background - not quite perfect. For the tumble rings, I pulled back the carpet, because erasing the reflections would have been awkward. I think that one was most successful.

An old Russian proverb: The first pancake is never any good.

<2010_02_08/ 4, 4copy; 6, 6copy; 7, 7copy

 

[Joe Greiner]

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