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CBN grinding wheels?

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Bob I got the 180 grit wheel it kicks arse. I also bought a skew and handle from Dave. His tools are very nice.

The wheel is worth every penny. No trueing or dressing the wheel. What could be better then that.

Get 1, now.
 
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There are a couple of posts on Saw Mill Creek on this subject and they are all very positive.

All the best, Tom, in Douglasville, thinking a CBN is in the future.
 
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Bob,

Upon Harvey Ghesser's recommendation, I bought the CBN wheels and am very happy with them. Here are a couple of reasons why I like them: The standard wheels are narrower, so with the CBN wheels you will probably not go off the wheel; I don't have to worry about cleaning or truing them; they are the same size all the time because they don't wear down, and no dust. Harvey put his wheels on a Baldor grinder, so, I just couldn't resist buying one as well. (Harvey, if you are reading this, I am sending you a bill.) hope this helps.
 
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And no heat generated. The tool stays cool. The wheel runs true therefore never out of balance. They are on a steel body so they will never explode on you.
It's like getting a smart phone. Once you get them you wonder how you ever turned without them.
 

odie

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With the way these CBN wheels are designed to be used on gouge and skew tools, isn't it true that what we're basically discussing is an alternate method of metal removal......and, not sharpening at all?

To clarify that remark, I don't understand how an 80gt, or even the 180gt CBN wheel can produce a sharper edge than my Norton SG 80gt wheel backed up by a 600gt hand held diamond hone.

Can we assume the D-way CBN wheel is not intended to produce a final edge on a gouge, but the intent is to prepare the edge for hand honing?.......in which case, we are indeed discussing metal removal, and not sharpening. If this is the case, then it would be difficult to convince me to buy one of these CBN wheels, because the final degree of sharpness is obtained by the same method either way.........

ooc
 
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Love mine, best money I've spend for sharpening and, to Odie's point, I don't hand hone. As it is a steel wheel, it won't wear away like a matrix wheel, hence no need to dress it, no matrix dust flying around. For my purposes it will last as long as I turn.
 
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odie

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Love mine, best money I've spend for sharpening and, to Odie's point, I don't hand hone.

Fair enough......It would then appear that you are satisfied with not having the sharpest edges on your tools that is possible to obtain.......

ooc
 
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Oldie,
Do you freehand your honing or have a fixed device that holds both the tool and the hone. Unless you do then I guess you prefer rounding over your edge? Point being you couldn't hold the hone perfectly.

I occasionally hone but not all the time. I think my edge is better now with the CBN than previously with the friable wheels.
 

odie

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Oldie,
Do you freehand your honing or have a fixed device that holds both the tool and the hone. Unless you do then I guess you prefer rounding over your edge? Point being you couldn't hold the hone perfectly.

I occasionally hone but not all the time. I think my edge is better now with the CBN than previously with the friable wheels.

I'd have to say it's semi-rigid, but not completely a "fixed" method. The tool is braced on a block of wood that's attached to the bench, and my thigh. The diamond hone is inserted into a "carrier" that is easier to control than simply grasping the steel plate by hand.

It does take some practice, and I suggest anyone contemplating hand honing invest the time and effort to consistently achieve the desired result.

Your remark about "rounding over" can only be made by someone who hasn't invested the time and effort to acquire the skills of honing, and to know what to do with the residual. The degree of sharpness possible is well worth the secondary bevel. It never gets problematic because it never gets very wide. When that happens, it only takes a moment to return to the grinder and shorten it up. In effect, that super-sharp edge never touches the grinder at all......unless, and until it needs to be reshaped. There are countless skilled turners that have done their homework and invested the time and energy to learn this very basic skill to it's best potential.

ooc
 
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Bob
First let me say that I know Dave well, in fact I was over at his place on Thursday.
As others have noted, the wheels are balanced, run true and do not heat the metal when grinding.
As for honing, Dave actually recommends it and also sells a CBN hone, although a diamond hone would work as well.
Due to the clearance these wheels require, most grinders will need their shrouds removed.
I should also note that the wheels have a "break-in" period. They will cut different when new, and correctly after some use. Me, I would waste off some cheap HSS and get the wheels ready for real use quickly.

Why Dave sells these wheels is the M42 tools he sells, these tools are actually harder then you can get M2 or M4 tools, which means these wheel needed to get his tools to get scary sharp.
 
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CBN wheels

I bought two wheels from D-Way and will never go back to grit wheels. As far as honing is concerned, when I was a student of David Ellsworth in 1993, I asked about honing. He said he used his tools right off the grinder. Good enough for me. Are you using your gouges to shave with or for cutting wood?
 

odie

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I bought two wheels from D-Way and will never go back to grit wheels. As far as honing is concerned, when I was a student of David Ellsworth in 1993, I asked about honing. He said he used his tools right off the grinder. Good enough for me. Are you using your gouges to shave with or for cutting wood?

1993?

Well, obviously Ellsworth wasn't using a CBN wheel, and come to think of it, it's extremely unlikely he was using a diamond hone either. If I'm not mistaken, even the latest technology of friable wheels were not available in 1993, either. (It took me until around 2003 +/- before I began using the SG wheels, myself!) If he's still not honing, maybe he should perform a simple experiment and take one piece of difficult cutting wood and give it a go.......with both honed and unhoned gouges. I'd be willing to bet most turners with any time under their belts, have taken a few minutes to do this test. When I did, the difference between the quality of the cut was obvious.

Ellsworth is a very good turner, but I have an opinion about the god-like status he seems to have with many student turners. These people should open their eyes and see the quality of turnings other turners are producing......and, in this turner's opinion, Ellsworth isn't "the best", or anywhere near the top. (Oh man, now I'll probably really catch hxll from the worshipers!) It is also my opinion that if you could survey the best of the best turners......they ALL would be honing their tools to perfection! :D

ooc
 
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Oldie,
My comment about rounding over was meant in jest because of the implied sarcasm in your post prior. I seem to remember reading that a honed edge is only at it's sharpest the first 3 seconds you touch it to a piece of material.
I see no reason for a honed edge except for a finish cut and even then it depends on how the finish cut to wood is responding. I do hone my skew a lot.
And obviously some tools cut better without honing. How would that scraper work if you honed that bur off of it?

I've yet to hear one testimony where someone said they weren't happier with their CBN wheels. I do hear people that don't own them try and justify why their way is better...
 
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odie said:
1993?

Well, obviously Ellsworth wasn't using a CBN wheel, and come to think of it, it's extremely unlikely he was using a diamond hone either. If I'm not mistaken, even the latest technology of friable wheels were not available in 1993, either. (It took me until around 2003 +/- before I began using the SG wheels, myself!) If he's still not honing, maybe he should perform a simple experiment and take one piece of difficult cutting wood and give it a go.......with both honed and unhoned gouges. I'd be willing to bet most turners with any time under their belts, have taken a few minutes to do this test. When I did, the difference between the quality of the cut was obvious.

Ellsworth is a very good turner, but I have an opinion about the god-like status he seems to have with many student turners. These people should open their eyes and see the quality of turnings other turners are producing......and, in this turner's opinion, Ellsworth isn't "the best", or anywhere near the top. (Oh man, now I'll probably really catch hxll from the worshipers!) It is also my opinion that if you could survey the best of the best turners......they ALL would be honing their tools to perfection! :D

ooc

WOW!! On the Ellsworth comment. Totally not needed.

I have some time under my belt albeit as a hobbyist but honing for anything but a finish cut is a waste and most of "The Best of the Best" including Ellsworth would tell you that.

Why anyone would want a friable wheel over a non friable wheel is beyond me. I understand the whole price thing but in the long run it's safer and will save you money over time.
 

odie

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Oldie,
My comment about rounding over was meant in jest because of the implied sarcasm in your post prior. I seem to remember reading that a honed edge is only at it's sharpest the first 3 seconds you touch it to a piece of material.
I see no reason for a honed edge except for a finish cut and even then it depends on how the finish cut to wood is responding. I do hone my skew a lot.
And obviously some tools cut better without honing. How would that scraper work if you honed that bur off of it?

I've yet to hear one testimony where someone said they weren't happier with their CBN wheels. I do hear people that don't own them try and justify why their way is better...

Hello Brian.......

By the same token, the edge you get by not honing will begin to dull immediately, as well.......so, what's the point? To my thinking, as long as the tool will begin to dull immediately, I'll begin at a higher level of sharpness.....right from the git-go!

So, if I get your reasoning correctly, you'll use a tool that is less sharp, because a sharper tool will eventually dull to an equally less state of sharp? Somehow that reasoning escapes me, but you do what you will.

I do not hone scrapers......so, we agree on that! :cool2: The burr is the cutting edge, and that cutting edge is produced by the grinding wheel itself.

It is a very good point that I don't use a CBN wheel......so, you are absolutely correct that all my reasoning is a product of mental deduction, and not actual experience. Over the years, there are plenty of products I haven't bought, but have made a decision of it's value to my turning based solely on my perception. I must admit there have been times where one product, or another, I eventually purchased. I've also got gadgets and things that were a total waste of my time and money........(I'll bet a few here can relate to that!) Maybe I'm wrong about the CBN wheels......and, maybe I'm not wrong.......we'll see how well it plays out with those who have the money, and the inclination. One thing is for sure.......some of those who have money invested in any of these products will not be inclined to identify, or acknowledge any defects or drawbacks, even if it's glaringly obvious........this is just human nature, I suppose! :D

For me, it goes against experience to think that 180gt will produce a better edge than 600gt.......

One thing I'd like to point out, is that I continually re-hone my sharpened edges. I don't suspect actual cutting time is more than a minute or two in total, before I pull out the diamond hone and re-hone the edge. Every time this is done, it requires the burr to be taken off within the flute, as well. Most new turners just hate sharpening, and will spend insane amounts of money on gadgets and super hard steels (blush!)........, but, in the end, they will ultimately wait way too long before they'll re-sharpen. (Because their mind-set prevents a timely return to the grinder!) The best advice they can get, is to learn how to sharpen and hone......and practice will make it quick, easy, and without giving it much thought!

ooc
 
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No. He's "earned" the respect by his peers. I'm just not sure an amateur of your stature has earned the right to call him out. Absolutely nothing gained or brought to the conversation by that statement. I really didn't expect such a comment from you in an open forum.
 

odie

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No. He's "earned" the respect by his peers. I'm just not sure an amateur of your stature has earned the right to call him out. Absolutely nothing gained or brought to the conversation by that statement. I really didn't expect such a comment from you in an open forum.

Hit a nerve, did I! :D

OK....I've had my say, and am giving you the last word, because it's obvious that you are one of those I said would give me "hxll"! We'll let the others think whatever they want to think.

ooc
 
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Hit a nerve, did I! :D

OK....I've had my say, and am giving you the last word, because it's obvious that you are one of those I said would give me "hxll"! We'll let the others think whatever they want to think.

ooc

Em, that's actually not giving him the last word, but I can tell you that my opinion of you slipped a bit.

As for honing, I suspect I can find as many pro's that don't as do. In fact, last summer at the Olympia Symposium, Mike Mahoney stated, that he prefers the more ragged edge of a 80 grit stone to the finer edge of one of Dave's CBN wheels. This was after he had re-sharpened his tools with one of Dave's CBN wheels (the Olympia club is one of two that Dave belongs to, and only CBN wheels were available at the Symposium)

Me, I hone, as I'm convinced it improves the cut, but I respect the opinions of those that don't as they have different experiences then I do.
 

odie

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Em, that's actually not giving him the last word, but I can tell you that my opinion of you slipped a bit.

As for honing, I suspect I can find as many pro's that don't as do. In fact, last summer at the Olympia Symposium, Mike Mahoney stated, that he prefers the more ragged edge of a 80 grit stone to the finer edge of one of Dave's CBN wheels. This was after he had re-sharpened his tools with one of Dave's CBN wheels (the Olympia club is one of two that Dave belongs to, and only CBN wheels were available at the Symposium)

Me, I hone, as I'm convinced it improves the cut, but I respect the opinions of those that don't as they have different experiences then I do.

If you don't think that was giving concession, you ought to see what I could have written! I gave an opinion that I knew beforehand would be strongly opposed by some here. It is something I feel should have been said, mainly because the person it was directed at was a very good example of following advice without considering anything else BUT that advice......even though he could have considered the options.

I see many things in this woodturning community that revolve around things other than what it should. Some of you have heard me speak of the "herd mentality" a time or two, as well. This is something that serves to stifle personal growth by not promoting self determination......but, is directed by the "group think". That "group think" at it's origin, has a direct link not to the group, but to a select few individuals.......this is along the same lines of the "in crowd" group that we all saw in our school days. There are the "groupies" who follow the "in crowd" hoping for acceptance, right here in this woodturning community........just as there was in our school days. Once some of these things are recognized, can there be a release from these boundaries that once were, and we can evolve according to our own abilities.

I realize this way of viewing the woodturning community will never be understood, recognized, or accepted by the whole, or any major part of it. The way of doing things, promoting people and products has already been established, and that would be a huge hurdle. However, there is value in reaching a very few who will recognize some of these things, and by this recognition, open the doors to their own blossoming of creativity and character.......

Most of this will be completely lost on the majority of those who read it, but there will be a few who will have that little bell ring.......and will say to themselves, "I've thought that very same thing".

ooc
 
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Well, I missed this one yesterday.

First, the CBN wheels. Cubic boron nitride is made for grinding steel, and is far superior for our use when compared to diamond, which does great on carbide, but clogs up when used on the softer steels. The D Way wheels, and now another one from England, will be the market standard in a very short time. They just out perform any other grinder wheel out there in every single category, with the exception of them costing a bit more, but being a far better investment as you will get more than your money's worth out of them. They do break in, and cut very aggressively when new, but get less so after a bit. Excessive steel removal is more of a 'are you grinding (shaping) or just touching up the edge' thing. There is one advantage to the CBN hones. I turn a lot of wet wood. It splatters on my hone. The CBN one can be taken into the kitchen, splash some water on it and a little dish soap, scrub with a plastic bristle brush, and it is as good as new. You can not do that with the diamond ones.

As for which cutting edge works best, I don't know. I never hone, and haven't felt or noticed the need. I have tried honing, and maybe I am not doing it right, but there has been no noticeable difference to me in the finished surface. High shear angle, and rubbing the bevel do more for getting a good surface than anything else I have experimented with. The 180 grit wheel leaves a very fine edge. Any of the matrix wheels on the marked have grits of up to 120, though you can find some that are higher. The 80 grit CBN wheel leaves a more polished edge than any 80 or 120 grit matrix wheel.

I have never gotten to meet or see David Ellsworth. His respect in the turning community has been well earned. He is an innovator that we all have been influenced by. There are so many good turner out there, no one can claim to be the best, and that opinion is just an opinion, and every one is entitled to their own view of things. We do not have to agree, just respect the differences. I think he could be called the Jimmie Hendrix of woodturning, except that he has lived a lot longer.

robo hippy
 
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All right, you CBN guys/gals: If one likes the edge off an 80 grit or 120 grit standard SG or even the regular AO wheels, what CBN grit would you want to get (compare AFTER it's broken in, please)?

Thanks............Mark
 

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odie said:
Ellsworth is a very good turner, but I have an opinion about the god-like status he seems to have with many student turners. These people should open their eyes and see the quality of turnings other turners are producing......and, in this turner's opinion, Ellsworth isn't "the best", or anywhere near the top. (Oh man, now I'll probably really catch hxll from the worshipers!) It is also my opinion that if you could survey the best of the best turners......they ALL would be honing their tools to perfection! :D

ooc

Oldie,
I sense where you are coming from.

If you happen to catch David doing his natural edge bowl demo you might just allow that he is still up there.

Best is in the eye of the beholder.

Oddly a couple of folks I think are near the top with tool usage don't produce any work that sells.

I would suggest that no turner alive has had more influence on the current state of woodturning than David.
The people he has encouraged, the tools he has developed, forms people emulate, students he has taught, founding the AAW......

And he is just a down to earth guy who is fun to be around.

Al
 
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Mark,

I have both 80 and 180 grit wheels. The newer ones from Optigrind (advertised in AAW magazine and Woodturning Design) have a 220 grit, I think, wheel that I have yet to see. I will talk to them in San Jose. I use the 180 for gouges, and the 80 for my scrapers, and some times gouges as well. I had some CBN matrix type wheels years ago, very similar to the Woodcraft Green River diamond wheels, where about 3/16 inch of grinding matrix is bonded to an aluminum hub. One was 320 grit. I eventually replaced that with a 150 grit. I just got the feeling that the finer grit did not remove enough steel to 'refresh' the edge. I would say that it might have been similar to honing, you can refresh the edge for a while, but eventually you need to go back to the grinder and remove some steel for a better cutting edge.

robo hippy
 

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odie said:
.

I do not hone scrapers......so, we agree on that! :cool2: The burr is the cutting edge, and that cutting edge is produced by the grinding wheel itself.

ooc

I use a diamond hone to strike a burr. Makes a cleaner surface.
Something I learned from Al Stirt

Polish the grinder burr off then strike a burr with a diamond hone.
Produces a finer more consistent burr. And the burr can be renewed several times in this manner f before going back to the grinder.
The scraper is finishing tool and the finer the burr gives a cleaner surface.

John Jordan produces a similar burr using a slip stone.

Al
 
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john lucas

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I rarely hone my tools, except the skew. Proper feed rate and tool orientation will give you a very good finish. I do hone them on occasion to see if I can improve the finish. Usually when turning very punky woods.
I've looked at the CBN wheels but they are very very expensive. My white wheels are 5 years old now and have many years left in them so I just can't justify the CBN wheels.
If money wasn't a problem I would probably go with them becuase I'm kind of sharpening nut and always looking for a better way. It just has to be in the budget.
 

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I use a diamond hone to strike a burr. Makes a cleaner surface.
Something I learned from Al Stirt

Polish the grinder burr off then strike a burr with a diamond hone.
Produces a finer more consistent burr. And the burr can be renewed several times in this manner f before going back to the grinder.
The scraper is finishing tool and the finer the burr gives a cleaner surface.

John Jordan produces a similar burr using a slip stone.

Al

Thanks for this information, Al......

I am going to make it a point to give this a try.

edit: Are you using the diamond hone in the same direction the grinding wheel turns to produce this burr?
What grit diamond hone are you using?

The burr I am getting from my SG Norton wheel does do a very decent job of making a good usable burr.......but, I'm always interested in finding better ways of doing things. There are times when I'd prefer to clean up the tool finish a little more prior to sanding, and if this works, I'll use it. I'll probably have to wait until a good test piece and situation comes up, but that won't take too long. This won't cost me anything to try, and there is no biased need for a particular outcome.

I have one of the carbide scraper burnishers made by "Veritas", I think it is. With this device, I've not had much success at producing a viable burr. When lathe tools were more commonly made from carbon steel, I believe something like this would work much better. This may be a hold-over concept from a previous era. Even if it did work, it's useless for my most used 1/2" thick scrapers, because the carbide cone is not tall enough to do the job.

ooc
 
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Scraper burrs:

The burr from a CBN wheel is far superior to the burr from an standard grinding wheel. This is my primary burr for roughing and shear cuts with a scraper.

A honed burr is good only for very light shear cuts, or on a negative rake scraper. Gone in seconds. I NEVER use a scraper flat on the tool rest for finish cuts, no matter what edge is on it.

A burnished burr is nice, but in most cases not worth the extra effort of honing off the grinder burr and then burnishing. Some one did an article in the AAW mag a few years back about the different cuts from different edges on the scraper, with highly magnified pics of the wood after the cuts. The burnished burr provided the cleanest cuts, but not by much. I am too cheap to buy the Veritas Burnisher. I just use a triangle burnishing tool for card scrapers. A few light strokes will produce a good sturdy burr. The main problem with burnished burrs, is if you put too much pressure on the burnisher as you turn the burr. You can actually roll the burr over like a breaking wave. With a 70 degree bevel, you want your burnisher at 80 to 90 degrees, or slightly off parallel with the bevel. I remember one demonstrator stating flat out that it was impossible to raise a burr with a hand burnisher. Why did the hippy cross the road? Cause some one told him not to. While I am some one who has plenty of brute strength when necessary, technique is far more important. A few light strokes is all it takes. The triangle burnisher works far better than a round one. The burr can be burnished down and back up again when dull a couple of times, just like a card scraper.

Myth: a scraper will not cut without a burr. It will cut nicely, and you can also do a bevel rubbing cut with one. I do like the cutting action of a burr better.

I did like Richard Raffen's article on using scrapers in the latest magazine. His box scrapers looked more like my bowl scrapers.

robo hippy
 

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The idea behind a CBN wheel is pretty simple, they outlast standard bonded grinding wheels and don't need balancing or loose their circumference.

Yes, they cost more, but so does a higher end lathe or a Baldor. Will they do the same thing? Yep. Do they perform better? I think so, but that is subjective.

I don't hone anything but some spindle gouges, and only because it is faster to freshen up the edge and I am lazy. But that isn't honing in the context of this thread.

And the idea that an 80 grit wheel gives an 80 grit finish is crap, a myth. In the hands of the right maker, you would never guess the wheel the tool was sharpened on.

But I will say that CBN wheels do heat the tool, just less than a "normal" wheel does.
 
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Reply To Odie

I have followed your contributions to this forum over the years and have found your opinions and advice to be very helpful. I was therefore stunned to read your comments about David Ellsworth. I hope the day comes that I can produce hollow forms like his, or any other work of the quality, imagination and skill level he manifests. He is a superb teacher and was instumental in making woodturning what it is today. Your crack about hearing from the David Ellsworth lovers was perceptive. I'm one of them. Paul M. Kaplowitz
 

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I have followed your contributions to this forum over the years and have found your opinions and advice to be very helpful. I was therefore stunned to read your comments about David Ellsworth. I hope the day comes that I can produce hollow forms like his, or any other work of the quality, imagination and skill level he manifests. He is a superb teacher and was instumental in making woodturning what it is today. Your crack about hearing from the David Ellsworth lovers was perceptive. I'm one of them. Paul M. Kaplowitz


Hello Paul.......

Well......so be it.

It's unfortunate that you, and others have misunderstood the meaning of my posts here. There was never an attempt to ridicule David Ellsworth other than to suggest his influence is (IMHO) less than the sainthood status some people bestow on him. The main thrust of my posts were aimed at those who put him on this pedestal and worship his legend in a manner his true contributions do not live up to.

Is he a man of great influence in this woodturning community? Sure, he was, and he is. As far as his developing a technique of closed hollowforms, he is an innovator, and one of the best at what he does. If the subject were strictly hollow forms, I'd have to say he's one of the best of the best at this aspect of turning.....but, the subject was more general than that specific subject.

His name will forever be known for the "Ellsworth grind", but is he the inventor of this sharpening technique? I have my doubts, because it is my understanding that others were experimenting with this grind and other creative sharpening techniques at the same time, but it is he who brought it to light......there is no question about that.

There is nothing to retract in anything I said, and as I said before, these things needed to be said, simply because there is a "herd mentality" that is predominant among many turners that ultimately gets in the way of creative thought among them, and by association, all of us......whether there is an awareness of this, or not.

Others have said David Ellsworth is an innovator, a really nice guy, great teacher, and someone they admire. Would it surprise you to know I think all these things are probably true? (I have never met him personally, but I have my ears to the ground......and, I am not doubting these things at all.)

ooc
 
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Well Oodie, unfortunately it now just comes across as just some amateur who is jealous and envious. You really should think about what you type and the various ways people will interpret it.
 

odie

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Well Oodie, unfortunately it now just comes across as just some amateur who is jealous and envious. You really should think about what you type and the various ways people will interpret it.

No, it is you who should not make assumptions, or attempt to steer the commentary in directions it wasn't intended. My comments were directed at the attitude you expressed.....not David Ellsworth.

.....As far as your declaration of "jealous and envious"......you can believe as you will. I'm confident in my pursuit of my own personal aspirations.....and, I keep it in perspective.

You are right about one thing, though. If I had known you and a few others would have taken my comments to places they weren't intended, I would have made a special effort to make my thoughts a bit more clear. Still, these things need to be brought to light, because you are only one of many who display the sort of thing I was attempting to illuminate.

ooc
 

Bill Boehme

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IOC, I think that you poked a stick in the hornet's nest just for the fun of it.

So, you think that using a grinding wheel is "wasting metal" while using a 600 grit diamond "stone" is "sharpening". So then, where precisely is the line of demarcation? Huh? I contend that metal can be wasted with a 600 grit diamond stone -- it just takes longer.

Why you singled out a living individual by name who has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand completely baffles me. Is it because you think that he never reads these threads? Or, is it because you you view him as a public figure icon that is fair game for pot shots? Regardless of whether any of your personal opinions of the man have any validity, Mr Ellsworth has earned the respect of turners because of his generosity in sharing his knowledge.

Think about it -- would you blindside any of the regulars on this forum by hijacking an unrelated thread to make the attack?
 

odie

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IOC, I think that you poked a stick in the hornet's nest just for the fun of it.

So, you think that using a grinding wheel is "wasting metal" while using a 600 grit diamond "stone" is "sharpening". So then, where precisely is the line of demarcation? Huh? I contend that metal can be wasted with a 600 grit diamond stone -- it just takes longer.

Why you singled out a living individual by name who has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand completely baffles me. Is it because you think that he never reads these threads? Or, is it because you you view him as a public figure icon that is fair game for pot shots? Regardless of whether any of your personal opinions of the man have any validity, Mr Ellsworth has earned the respect of turners because of his generosity in sharing his knowledge.

Think about it -- would you blindside any of the regulars on this forum by hijacking an unrelated thread to make the attack?

Bill,

I believe if you'll check what I said about sharpening in post number 6, I said "metal removal", not "wasting metal". There is a difference, and that difference suggests purpose. Removing metal is a necessary element to the final shape and in preparation to the final sharpened edge.

The rest is instigation, and suggests you have not, or choose not to understand the meaning of my posts. Since it appears you are "fishing", I decline to comment.

ooc
 

hockenbery

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odie said:
legend in a manner his true contributions do not live up to.

Is he a man of great influence in this woodturning community? Sure, he was, and he is. As far as his developing a technique of closed hollowforms, he is an innovator, and one of the best at what he does. If the subject were strictly hollow forms, I'd have to say he's one of the best of the best at this aspect of turning.....but

Others have said David Ellsworth is an innovator, a really nice guy, great teacher, and someone they admire. Would it surprise you to know I think all these things are probably true? (I have never met him personally, but I have my ears to the ground......and, I am not doubting these things at all.)

ooc

David Ellsworth has had more influence on the state of woodturning in America than any other individual.
Renowned teacher, founder of AAW, artistry recognized in dozens of books, innovation in tools,innovations in forms,

In my opinion David does the best natural edge bowl demo I have ever seen. Saw one just last year.

Ridiculing his admirers is your prerogative

Al
 
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Thanks for this thread. Another like it on wow suggests the wheels are an investment for the future. So when I need another wheel I will spend the money. For most turning I find honing a waste of time. But when I need that really sharp edge I 500 grit diamond hone then go to a pulley belt with tripoli on it. Thats shaving sharp. But last for just a few cuts. Which is what i want.
I would submit that Dale Nish is the most influential person on the field. David Ellsworth is a big boy and I would venture to guess could give a rats backside what Odie thinks of him(status) not even knowing him. As I have spent time with David I think everything about him is well deserved. Dale Nish says David is the most copied turner in the world. I for one am thankfull for all the personal time he has spent with me over about the last 25 years. He is a very good teacher.
 

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... His name will forever be known for the "Ellsworth grind", but is he the inventor of this sharpening technique? I have my doubts, because it is my understanding that others were experimenting with this grind and other creative sharpening techniques at the same time, but it is he who brought it to light......there is no question about that. .....
ooc

You might want to read what he says about this, I did..

http://www.ellsworthstudios.com/interviews/interviewDavidEllsworth.pdf
 
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