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Fractal Burning - Club Galleries

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Lance Mirrer

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I understand, and have read, the new AAW Policy regarding prohibiting the process of fractal burning demonstrations.

My question; is this policy meant to prohibit/discourage the display of completed fractal burned pieces? I am wondering this about posting in our online Galleries, bringing pieces for display in both chapter meetings and symposiums, and in selling items at club sanctioned art shows.

While I completely agree this process is dangerous enough not to allow teaching to beginning turners, I am not comfortable censoring the work of those who deem themselves capable of creating items outside of AAW functions.
 
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Wood turning is potentially dangerous as it is. Part of the problem is more a case of a lack of common sense. Whatever we censor it is not going to stop people trying to do things outside their ability but I totally agree with highlighting the dangers in such practices as fractal burning. Personally my little knowledge of electrickery is enough to stop me even trying it and the same applies to a number of other things that woodturners do. A number of people have been seriously injured, some even died turning things that were too big for the holding method, using the wrong tools and equipment etc so where does one draw the line?
 
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my guess is they had lawyers look at it. Definitely a knee jerk reaction. And I'm sure it came down to liability issues.
With the proper ppe then electricity is fine.

I've seen some beautiful pieces that had fractal burning as just one part of the finished piece. I hope they think long and hard about censoring pieces due to what process was used to achieve the final product. Could alienate some exceptionally talented people.
 
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Nanny States of America.
When I was twelve years old I was building radios and TV's, a flyback transformer can
produce voltages high enough to kill a person.
I also had an old Gilbert Chemistry Set which contained a number of chemicals which
allowed a person to make a variety of toxic, explosive, poisonous and volatile compounds.
The Chemistry sets sold in today's market has none of these chemicals and the experiments
provided are minimal and lack any substance for learning any real science.
 
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Tell them a bout it, Mike. We rode bikes without helmets (which didn't exist then), drank from the garden hose ( we had enough sense to let it run and get cold).
Trivia: The USA is second in the number of lawyers per capita. Germany is first. Go figure.
 
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my guess is they had lawyers look at it. Definitely a knee jerk reaction. And I'm sure it came down to liability issues.

Lawyers or not, in my opinion, the AAW is well within their parent rights to restrict and urge restraint of potentially unsafe practices being demonstrated. The organization underwrites every chapter and must accept responsibility for activities at those chapters. At this stage, the technique is garage-cobbled with a lot of risk. Perhaps the tools will undergo development with safety features built-in. I would expect the AAW to revisit the decision at that point.

For anyone wishing to demonstrate the technique, the AAW is not saying you can’t freely do it in your own shop and disconnected from an official chapter meeting or event.

Here is the text of the AAW statement:
It is the policy of the American Association of Woodturners (AAW) that the process known as Fractal Burning is prohibited from being used in any AAW-sponsored events, including regional and national symposia, and that AAW-chartered chapters are strongly urged to refrain from demonstrating or featuring the process in chapter events. Further, the process of FractalBurning shall not be featured in any written or online AAW publication, except for within articles that warn against its use. AAW publications will not accept advertisements for any products or supplies directly related to the process.
 
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Lawyers or not, in my opinion, the AAW is well within their parent rights to restrict and urge restraint of potentially unsafe practices being demonstrated. The organization underwrites every chapter and must accept responsibility for activities at those chapters. At this stage, the technique is garage-cobbled with a lot of risk. Perhaps the tools will undergo development with safety features built-in. I would expect the AAW to revisit the decision at that point.

For anyone wishing to demonstrate the technique, the AAW is not saying you can’t freely do it in your own shop and disconnected from an official chapter meeting or event.

Here is the text of the AAW statement:
It is the policy of the American Association of Woodturners (AAW) that the process known as Fractal Burning is prohibited from being used in any AAW-sponsored events, including regional and national symposia, and that AAW-chartered chapters are strongly urged to refrain from demonstrating or featuring the process in chapter events. Further, the process of FractalBurning shall not be featured in any written or online AAW publication, except for within articles that warn against its use. AAW publications will not accept advertisements for any products or supplies directly related to the process.
I agree Owen. They definitely had the right. The liability is just too great right now. I'm just curious if pieces will be rejected from pics, articles, exhibitions, etc that have fractal burning on them.
And no, I'm not a burner.
 

Bill Boehme

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I don't see anything attractive about fractal burning ... it just reminds me of times that I dealt with problems that were the result of carbon tracks caused by insulaton breakdown in high voltage devices. Insulaton failure doesn't equal art. :D
 

hockenbery

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Hi Jeff,
Do you have a source for this? Sorry if you are an official and I do not recognize you.
Jeff is an AAW board member and the Chairman of the Symposium comittee.

I have also received an Email form Phil McDonald, the AAW Executive Director, stating that fractal embellished pieces will be accepted in the instant gallery.

The main emphasis is safety and discourging the use of the technique. Each individual is free to do as they choose.
Another issue for banning the technique from symposiums is the safety of the audience. By this I mean before and after the demo. There are always people in the audience that like to see the equipment up close and fiddle with it. People look at my tools, chucks etc all the time.

I have learned to always lock a moveable headstock lathe just before I start a demo, because folks see a lever and they move it to see what it does. I have never once thought it was unlocked as an act of sabotage.
 
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Lawyers or not, in my opinion, the AAW is well within their parent rights to restrict and urge restraint of potentially unsafe practices being demonstrated. The organization underwrites every chapter and must accept responsibility for activities at those chapters. A


Here is the text of the AAW statement:
It is the policy of the American Association of Woodturners (AAW) that the process known as Fractal Burning is prohibited from being used in any AAW-sponsored events, including regional and national symposia, and that AAW-chartered chapters are strongly urged to refrain from demonstrating or featuring the process in chapter events. Further, the process of FractalBurning shall not be featured in any written or online AAW publication, except for within articles that warn against its use. AAW publications will not accept advertisements for any products or supplies directly related to the process.
Owen I do not believe that "Underwrite" is the correct relationship between AAW and chapters. Note AAW "discourages" chapter use and they cannot Prohibit a function at the chapter level but only disclaim responsibility.....a legal technicality. That said I do not believe the practice is safe as it is used by most and could very well lead to more deaths in the future. Another Forum notes that the use of gloves should be class II and have to be tested on a regular basis. There so much I do not know about current that I would not go close to this.
 

Lance Mirrer

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Jeff is an AAW board member and the Chairman of the Symposium comittee.

I have also received an Email form Phil McDonald, the AAW Executive Director, stating that fractal embellished pieces will be accepted in the instant gallery.

The main emphasis is safety and discourging the use of the technique. Each individual is free to do as they choose.
Another issue for banning the technique from symposiums is the safety of the audience. By this I mean before and after the demo. There are always people in the audience that like to see the equipment up close and fiddle with it. People look at my tools, chucks etc all the time.

I have learned to always lock a moveable headstock lathe just before I start a demo, because folks see a lever and they move it to see what it does. I have never once thought it was unlocked as an act of sabotage.

Thanks for the clarification Al!
 
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I don't see anything attractive about fractal burning ... it just reminds me of times that I dealt with problems that were the result of carbon tracks caused by insulaton breakdown in high voltage devices. Insulaton failure doesn't equal art. :D

Well Bill, I must say it is a tad disappointing to see you being so judgemental about what is, or is not art. But then again, that is your opinion about what apparently does not appeal to you and your history of experience with insulation failure. I would guess it is fair to say that there is a pretty good history of "failures" that have lead to some remarkable artwork.

On another note, does this new AAW policy mean that all posts in this forum regarding "how to" in fractal burning will be removed? And that no future posts of that nature will be allowed?
 

hockenbery

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While a lot the fractal work is just about the burning and not about creating a vision, there are folks planning and creating pieces they envision with fractal burning.
Two guys in my local chapter have been doing fractals for a couple of years. Some of their work is excellent.

On a high level the fractal embellishment is used to define images on a turning surface. At a certain level of abstraction, fractal burned images are analogous to the images created by piercing, stippling or branding iron.

I am not a big fan of fractal burning. I think it poses a great risk to anyone not trained and equipped to work near high voltages.
 
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Bill Boehme

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Well Bill, I must say it is a tad disappointing to see you being so judgemental about what is, or is not art. But then again, that is your opinion about what apparently does not appeal to you and your history of experience with insulation failure. I would guess it is fair to say that there is a pretty good history of "failures" that have lead to some remarkable artwork.

On another note, does this new AAW policy mean that all posts in this forum regarding "how to" in fractal burning will be removed? And that no future posts of that nature will be allowed?

You did notice the smiley... or maybe not. But, like everybody else I have my likes and dislikes, so you'll just have to be disappointed that I'm not very enthusiastic about fractal burning. My reaction to most of the fractal burning that I've seen could be categorized as "that's interesting". I've seen a couple pieces that were very nicely done. But it isn't something that I have more than a passing interest.

This is probably old news by now, but in case anybody hasn't heard, here is a report of a woodturner who was electrocuted while fractal burning: http://www.union-bulletin.com/local...cle_daf59a2a-3420-11e7-8508-c7eb2f3dc175.html

Regarding your last question, content posted by forum members belongs to and is the responsibility of the member who posted it. The AAW assumes no responsibility for any content posted by forum members. I don't recall seeing any tutorials on fractal burning.

Several months ago I watched a member of my club doing fractal burning during an open shop session. I was very concerned because I felt like he was on the hairy edge of electrocuting himself. Fifteen kilovolts isn't something to treat casually.
 
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You did notice the smiley... or maybe not. But, like everybody else I have my likes and dislikes, so you'll just have to be disappointed that I'm not very enthusiastic about fractal burning. My reaction to most of the fractal burning that I've seen could be categorized as "that's interesting". I've seen a couple pieces that were very nicely done. But it isn't something that I have more than a passing interest.

This is probably old news by now, but in case anybody hasn't heard, here is a report of a woodturner who was electrocuted while fractal burning: http://www.union-bulletin.com/local...cle_daf59a2a-3420-11e7-8508-c7eb2f3dc175.html

Regarding your last question, content posted by forum members belongs to and is the responsibility of the member who posted it. The AAW assumes no responsibility for any content posted by forum members. I don't recall seeing any tutorials on fractal burning.

Several months ago I watched a member of my club doing fractal burning during an open shop session. I was very concerned because I felt like he was on the hairy edge of electrocuting himself. Fifteen kilovolts isn't something to treat casually.

Sorry Bill, I tend to miss Smiley Faces. Thanks for the clarification.
 

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For those not familiar with fractal burning (as I was), run a google search.....plenty of photo and video examples of this "art". Well, now I know what it is, and I'm relatively in the same camp of Bill on this. I also have my likes, dislikes.....and opinions......and my opinion is, there seems to be no humanly derived artistic talent to fractal burning, but is simply a product of doing what anyone could do, given the desire to build the equipment. To me, something of that person's soul needs to be directly applied in order to be correctly deemed "art"......and, this isn't it.

-----odie-----
 

john lucas

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I've seen a couple of examples where the artist was able to control the burning to some degree and they did look pretty nice. Most of it looks very random and not so nice. However I still say you can get the same look by hand with a pyrography tool and avoid the inherently dangerous technique, and control exactly where and how it burns. If it makes you feel better you can always make that bzzzzzzzt sound with your mouth while you burn so it feels more like your using electricity. Or you could have your partner hit you with a tazer frequently to really get the feel.
 
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Kind of like a burl or spalting in wood it is too random and does not look very nice. :rolleyes:
Hopefully I can find some wood with uniform grain so I can turn a nice looking piece. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

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I think that it is [the somewhat misapplied use of the word fractal that seems to be the main attraction as if the word fractal is able turn an ordinary hunk of wood into a masterpiece. The burned tracks aren't really fractal patterns... just the path of least resistance to embellishing a turning ... both electrically and inspirationally.

Here is one non-mathematical definition that I googled:
A fractal is a never-ending pattern. Fractals are infinitely complex patterns that are self-similar across different scales. They are created by repeating a simple process over and over in an ongoing feedback loop....​
But, I agree with John and Al that in the right hands the results can be far better than most of the heavy handed work that I have seen. This would be true for any form of embellishments, but I haven't tried the taser idea yet ... bzzzzzzzzzz.
 

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But, I agree with John and Al that in the right hands the results can be far better than most of the heavy handed work that I have seen. This would be true for any form of embellishments, but I haven't tried the taser idea yet

Imagine if someone covers a turning with beads, then cuts those beads into squares, and then paints them with random colors.
Then imagine if someone cut a precise number of beads, made precisely the number of cuts needed to define a specific number of squares. Then painted each square a color base upon its position..
You get two entirely different results. :)
 
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Whether we like the effect, see it as a valid embellishment etc is perhaps not the point. As far as I can tell the point is that doing it using home made equipment without adequate knowledge and safety precautions can be dangerous. If someone has that knowledge and can do it safely it is IMHO just as valid whether I like the end result or not. I could name a number of artists whose work sells for 6 figures that I woudln't want in my home but that is just my personal taste. Whether it s right to censor work etc is the question and one that only the AAW can make. Just my view.
 
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Hopefully they outlaw the practice so it can be turned into a black market similar to the ivory trade.
Prices will increase 10X to 50X and each town will have a dealer working out of a motel room or back alley.
Any time "the powers that be" try to ban or control a product you only draw more attention to it.
Tell someone they can not have something and guess what they will go out of their way to have it.
Just say no to fractal burning! :rolleyes:
 

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Whether we like the effect, see it as a valid embellishment etc is perhaps not the point. As far as I can tell the point is that doing it using home made equipment without adequate knowledge and safety precautions can be dangerous. If someone has that knowledge and can do it safely it is IMHO just as valid whether I like the end result or not. I could name a number of artists whose work sells for 6 figures that I woudln't want in my home but that is just my personal taste. Whether it s right to censor work etc is the question and one that only the AAW can make. Just my view.

Very good points. There are a number of things we do that can be dangerous such as using chainsaws, power carving and use of chemicals.

The thing that separates fractal burning from the others is that there seems to be no middle ground when it comes to mishaps ... no minor or even severe injuries ... it's either no injury or it's fatal. And, if the user isn't cognizant of their inadequate safety practices then they might decide there isn't a problem other than the nuisance of busybody meddlers.

The AAW doesn't make pronouncements about artistic merit, but they do focus on education and safety. I believe that more woodturners are are wearing face shields and not using spindle roughing gouges for bowl turning because of their efforts. They're not prohibiting fractal turning from being displayed by members in the gallery at symposiums, but they won't be supporting it by publishing any articles on it or having any demos at symposiums featuring the process. They can't dictate what local chapters do in this matter, but they can request that that the local chapters support the AAW position. I would be very surprised if any local chapters disagreed with this policy.
 
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Could we please keep the discussion about the policy from AAW, and not get off into opinions about the embellishment technique. The timing of this policy announcement was particularly salient to our clubs activities because we had just had an extremely well thought-out presentation on the dangers and safe application of the Lichtenberg technique. I was so looking forward to having a video to refer people to when the topic came up, presented by a skilled and certified electrician and experienced turner. Now not to be, because it would totally violate the spirit of AAW's policy. I agree with the policy at this point -- but I do think that if the organization had been more forward-thinking when the technique started to gain popularity, followed by completely ridiculous videos on YouTube, they might have been able to make a corrective impact with strong publicity and perhaps their own safe YouTube video.
 
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I have read a number of posts and articles on troubleshooting VFD's , lathes, and power tools on various sites. This can also be a situation for a less experienced individual to hurt themselves while trying to make repairs on line voltage equipment. OSHA reports an average of 13 electrical related deaths per day and this only accounts for accidents occurring on the job. It does not matter if the voltage is 120V, 240V, 480V or 15000V, it is the current that causes the heart to go into atrial fibrillation. The heart beats so fast it no longer pumps blood and the person can quickly die from this unless the heart is brought back to a normal rhythm. It only takes about a 100 milliamps of current for it to be lethal to an individual, so the power used to light a 60 watt light bulb is 5 times the amount needed to be lethal. Making sure the equipment is de-energized is your best means of protection when working around electrical equipment. Locking the electrical source out is also required so that someone does not accidentally turn on the breaker, switch on the equipment, plug it back in while the equipment is being worked on. The next level of protection is wearing electrical rated gloves with leather protectors over the rubber gloves to protect them. Safety glasses are also needed when working around electrical equipment, they will protect your eyes from molten metal which is ejected from a typical arc flash or arc blast when the line voltage goes to ground. This can easily happen when a screw driver slips off a screw head or a wire accidentally comes loose and goes to ground. A typical arc flash reaches 35000 degrees which is hotter than the surface of the sun. This material contacting your eyes can be detrimental to your vision.
 

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I melted half of a big screwdriver one time when working on the starter of my car. got across 2 wires and it was like an explosion. Truth be told I've survived an awful lot of really stupid things over the years. Got blown off a radar Antenna when I was in the Air force. Had enough current to easily kill me but since I fell as soon as I got hit and consequently broke the circuit it save my life. Had the rear wheel of my motorcycle fall off at 55mph 2 years ago. Came away with just scrapes and a separated shoulder. Fortunately never took a serious fall when rock climbing. did sprain my ankle pretty bad one time doing that.
 

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I melted half of a big screwdriver one time when working on the starter of my car. got across 2 wires and it was like an explosion. Truth be told I've survived an awful lot of really stupid things over the years. Got blown off a radar Antenna when I was in the Air force. Had enough current to easily kill me but since I fell as soon as I got hit and consequently broke the circuit it save my life. Had the rear wheel of my motorcycle fall off at 55mph 2 years ago. Came away with just scrapes and a separated shoulder. Fortunately never took a serious fall when rock climbing. did sprain my ankle pretty bad one time doing that.

So, possibly you're saying that you are accident prone? Maybe those were warning shots across the bow. :D
 
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