$600 Woodturning Shop

[Jerry Hall]

OK, I fully expect (and want) comments on this. I am often asked at community events, often by young people, "what does it cost to get into woodturning, and what do I really need?" So here is an opinionated web page on the subject:
http://docs.google.com/View?id=adv8f4kvqjnq_148g682k7hc

I would like your comments, picky and substantive. All of them. I know we are all so careful to be fair to alternative choices, and products. I am not trying to be fair, just put a stake in the ground for an easily understood, reliable, set of choices that will safely work for a new woodturner.

I see your comments as valuable information for new turners to take into account. Remember, the idea is to come up with an adequate, minimum cost, shop with new equipment. I have two junior high students who are now saving their pennies toward this end, so the stakes are high for them.

 

[David Wilkins]

When I think back to the pieces I did on a crappy sears tube bed lathe with one bowl gouge and a parting tool... $600 could be easy to recover, the youth have that extra appeal too. Obviously the motivated can get it done, and with someone willing to guide them it is easier.
Going second hand on a lathe and grinder leaves too many variables, count on a wheel for the grinder a maybe a platform or some sort of home made jig. Used chisels are rarer so factor in a few cheap tools.
I would calculate $150 for a lathe (maybe less) $50 for a grinder, another $40 for a decent wheel and say $150 for chisels. You still have wood, abraisives and finishes to account for but I think $600 is a good starting point. Getting support from a club these kids probably wouldn't be able to measure the advantages gained.

 

[Wipedout]

Very nicely written - personally I would move a face shield from misc to a point of more clarity - just to emphasis its need.

But that is just me.

Also I would

 

[odie]

Jerry.........

I believe I paid $200 for my old 1950's vintage Shopsmith in the 1970's.......and, if it weren't for that fateful purchase, I would probably not be lathe turning today! This is because I had no interest, nor desire to turn wood. It was more out of curiosity than anything else that I eventually tried to turn something.....the rest is history!

I'd say it's best to advise to get the best lathe and equipment you can afford, and even that is dependent on how much interest a potential turner really has......(I know, I know......really hard to know that!)

Even those who can afford the best, most expensive tools and equipment have no guarantee that their interest isn't just a passing fancy!

I wonder how many newbie turners lose interest, simply because the equipment they purchase isn't very well made.......sacrificed in the name of thrift......?

Just passing thoughts above........

I'd say you made a great effort at coming up with a reasonable summery of basic tools and equipment......and, even then.......nobody is likely to come up with a way to satisfy everyone's interests.

Good luck with your young apprentices.......

ooc

 

[Richard Baker]

Good write-up Jerry. Will be doing a session or two for folks who might be interested in trying woodturning and this will help me put my outline together. Might even make it available (with your permission) as a handout if anyone seems seriously interested in actually trying some turning.

The whole program is an effort of our local "civic club", wherein dozens of volunteers conduct scores of sessions of one to three hours on a myriad of subjects, over a several month period. A modest admission is charged (most are $10 to $20 per person per event), and 100% of the proceeds is/are distributed among local charitable organizations. It's mostly fun for all for a good cause.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Thanks all for your feedback.

Texian: Of course you are welcome to use it, that was my intention for posting it. The civic club sounds like a wonderful concept. If there is any info on how it is organized, structured, what subjects I would be most interested, and others may be as well.

Odie: Thanks for your typical good thoughts. I really do believe the Rikon is a good lathe and a great value, I do a lot on my jet mini and don't feel very limited except in size of work. I often go back and forth between it and my Mustard, leaving different setups when doing multiples to save time. Sure variable speed would be nice so would more power. But good tool control easily overcomes that, and that is a good thing to learn.. I have turned on the Rikon and plan to sell my Jet mini that I travel and demo with to get the easy to change speeds, 12" swing and extra bed length of the Rikon. It is definitely not junk, except for the belt cover. Also have seen lots of good feedback from Rikon users. What's to go wrong? The only thing simpler is a bow lathe. Have you had any bad experiences with the Rikon? $600 is a lot for many folks I have found, but feasible. Any more and they would be out of the picture. If and when they have a few more bucks I think they would be better off sinking it into a chuck and even a bandsaw or chainsaw. Anyway that is the premise off my writeup.

Wipedout: Thanks for emphasizing face protection. I have made changes.

David: Thanks for the encouragement. You have confirmed my basic conclusions on avoiding used equipment and emphasizing good training and support from our club.

Any more thoughts out there? They would be most welcome.

 

[odie]

Odie: Thanks for your typical good thoughts. I really do believe the Rikon is a good lathe and a great value, I do a lot on my jet mini and don't feel very limited except in size of work. I often go back and forth between it and my Mustard, leaving different setups when doing multiples to save time. Sure variable speed would be nice so would more power. But good tool control easily overcomes that, and that is a good thing to learn.. I have turned on the Rikon and plan to sell my Jet mini that I travel and demo with to get the easy to change speeds, 12" throw and extra bed length of the Rikon. It is definitely not junk, except for the belt cover. Also have seen lots of good feedback from Rikon users. What's to go wrong? The only thing simpler is a bow lathe. Have you had any bad experiences with the Rikon? $600 is a lot for many folks I have found, but feasible. Any more and they would be out of the picture. If and when they have a few more bucks I think they would be better off sinking it into a chuck and even a bandsaw or chainsaw. Anyway that is the premise off my writeup.

Hi Jerry.......

I apologize......never meant to insinuate the Rikon is substandard. I have no experience with them. When I made the comment I did, I was thinking of the many cheap and poorly made lathes, tools, and other accessories that are always on the market.......check out some of the obviously cheap stuff on ebay, and you'll see what I mean!

As far as buying used equipment.......I wouldn't discount that completely. There are plenty of older, very high quality things to be had this way, at a much abbreviated price. That old 1950's Shopsmith of mine is a good example.......it would be hard to find a better lathe for the $200 I got that one for! I've bought quite a few things that were pre-owned, actually.......most of the time, I get a great deal on good stuff, but nothing is guaranteed!.......I've wasted money, too!

ooc

 

[Griesbach]

Jerry,
I'd really like to see your write up but the link takes me to a Google page that requires me to sign up for it and that has no appeal for me. Would you consider presenting it in a more easily accessible format?

 

[Jerry Hall]

It should be publically available now

http://docs.google.com/View?id=adv8f4kvqjnq_136hngwq2gb
Sorry, Jerry

 

[Jerry Hall]

Odie, Shopsmith is a great idea

In my area you often find the variable speed ones for $300. I forget what the spindle size is, and if it is standard or if you have to go thru the Shopsmith folks for stuff. But with so many things to learn, and time short for new turners, especially young ones, I gave a priority to new, standard, readily available..

No worries at all about your caution on junk lathes. I totally agree and have seen them. With my comments I was genuinely seeking reassurance on my recommendation for the Rikon. It seems almost a little to good to be true for what so far seems like a soid choice from quality retailers such as Woodcraft, Craft Supply and others. I take my recommendations very seriously and don't want to fail those who take my advice. That as much as anything is why I posted this all. Thanks for your input as always. I may come up with a supplemental page on lathe alternatives.

If you could give me a little more info on the Shopsmith and how standard it can be for chucks, morse taper, live center I would be interested. There are lot of them gathering dust in our area.

I also am also always asked with concern, and sometimes with an eye toward the spouse, "How much room do I need?" Or "I don't have a garage." I am working with the girls I teach on a simple lean-to and stepping stones for a floor with a tarp in front that will protect their lathe enough so they can get going until their dad finishes his shop/garage. They have a space for that but one may have to wait for the bear trap to be moved, along with the bear that killed two of their goats tho.

 

[odie]

In my area you often find the variable speed ones for $300. I forget what the spindle size is, and if it is standard or if you have to go thru the Shopsmith folks for stuff. But with so many things to learn, and time short for new turners, especially young ones, I gave a priority to new, standard, readily available..

No worries at all about your caution on junk lathes. I totally agree and have seen them. With my comments I was genuinely seeking reassurance on my recommendation for the Rikon. It seems almost a little to good to be true for what so far seems like a soid choice from quality retailers such as Woodcraft, Craft Supply and others. I take my recommendations very seriously and don't want to fail those who take my advice. That as much as anything is why I posted this all. Thanks for your input as always. I may come up with a supplemental page on lathe alternatives.

If you could give me a little more info on the Shopsmith and how standard it can be for chucks, morse taper, live center I would be interested. There are lot of them gathering dust in our area.

I also am also always asked with concern, and sometimes with an eye toward the spouse, "How much room do I need?" Or "I don't have a garage." I am working with the girls I teach on a simple lean-to and stepping stones for a floor with a tarp in front that will protect their lathe enough so they can get going until their dad finishes his shop/garage. They have a space for that but one may have to wait for the bear trap to be moved, along with the bear that killed two of their goats tho.

Jerry......

I sold my Shopsmith close to 25yrs ago, so can't remember all the details, but I believe the headstock was 5/8" smooth shaft, which needed a setscrew. There was no Morse taper. Most chucks are offered with an adaptor for the Shopsmith.

Man, my memory is really failing me at the moment, but I don't recall the tailstock at all! I'm sure it had one, so if there was a MT, I don't remember what size it was at the moment.

Maybe someone who is more "current" with the Shopsmith can fill in the blanks.......sorry for the memory lapse.

ooc

 

[David Wilkins]

I did not take enough advantage of the help offered to me when I started. Not that it wasn't offered, I just didn't bite on the offer. I paid more as a result. As an instructor now I do emphasize how much the club offers and go a bit extra myself.

 

[Wayne Spence]

Odie

I have a model10 and 10e shopsmith, the first models made. I used one for larger pedestal bases that my Jet mini/midi would not handle. It worked OK. The shaft is 5/8 and required a set screw as you mentioned. Penn State Ind. makes an adapter to 1 x 8 that I used with a midi Nova chuck exclusively. The tailstock is somewhat complicated and if you buya used one make sure that all tailstock components as well as headstock and tool rest are there. You can easily get beyond a hundred bucks buying tailstock components. I now have a Nova 1624 and will probably sell the Jet. Those Shopsmiths come in handy and I will keep both space willing. Anyone wanting more or detailed info please feel free to contact me.

Going back to the original thread concerning the $600 dollar setup it would be hard to beat the mini/midi lathes of good quality. Shopsmith does have the saw, drill press and sanding functions. That like everything else must be balanced with what equipment you have and what you want.

Adios amigos and hasta la vista vaqueros.

Wayne

 

[john lucas]

Jerry I started on a old lathe with a cheap gray wheel grinder. Well actually that was after using a drill for a lathe and old screw drivers for cutters.
If you really wanted to keep the costs down I think it can be done with an offbrand mini lathe like a PSI or Grizzly. The benjamins best tools are really good buys and you can rig up a sanding disc to sharpen tools. If you gave me that set up I could turn most of what I turn today and really wouldn't be inconvienced that much.
I think we get too carried away with needing a $300 grinder with a $120 sharpening jig $300-$500 worth of tools and $2000 lathe with a $250 chuck. These are nice, they do improve your turning but real turning is about what's in your head and the desire to create that piece. I look back at some of the work I turned 20 years ago and honestly don't know how I had the skills to turn them. I simply took my time and used any tool that would cut or scrape.

 

[Gretch Flo]

Shopsmith

I bought a 1950 ish shopsmith from a man whose father had it and had altheimers-so some stuff was missing. Had to get some things The tailstock was a "hole". I was new to turning and didn't know my a from my elbow so can't comment further about what I jerry rigged. Can't be specific on some things as I bought a Oneway 1640 to replace it, and finally gave it away to a son -in-law of a friend. It had a variable speed. It kept breaking belts(reeves type???). I had a machinist (worked in the physics dept) come to my house 3-4 times over 3-4 years to replace the belt. It was tricky (I think due to the variable spped), and took him 1 1/2 hours, and I had to help him hold things. I called the company and they said the only way around it was to get a new motor ($350)that took a diff belt. Used it for a couple of years. The metal stand that comes with it is too low and should be elevated. I am 5"4 and got back and neck issues from bending. Fixed it by getting a oneway.!!!! Slowest speed is 750 rpm. Gretch

 

[bill easterling]

46-460

Jerry,
For $600.00 you can get a delta 46-460 vs lathe.In my humble opinion it is the best lathe for the money.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Bill, I agree on the Delta

and have (at the risk of provoking more comments!) come up with a link to a second page listing it and an opinionated list of ever more expensive alternative quality lathes that I believe to be especially good values. But as a reminder I want the whole shop to fit in a $600 budget as that is what my experience tells me is the maximum budget for a lot of folks and the minimum you will have to spend for a quality shop with new tools. Can't shoot it all on the lathe. The lathe is only half the expense IMHO. I have worked with the Delta and it is sweet. Thanks for your input.

Here is my lathe list: http://docs.google.com/View?docID=0AS5G6HMVJZ3hYWR2OGY0a3Zxam5xXzE0N2ZrdzZ2N2cz&revision=_latest

 

[john lucas]

Ok you can get a mini lathe for around $200. Grizzly or PSI. You can get a Jet with step pulleys for a little bit more. Then the Woodcraft 8" grinder is $89. Benjamin's best woodturning tools from PennStateInd. $89. A Benjamin's best Bowl gouge $20. Once you add tax that's getting close to $500 depending on what you buy. Add $45 to join the AAW so you'll get the Journal and directory so you can find other turners and clubs and can locate resources to let you spend more money >

 

[Jerry Hall]

John, That's another path!

The $89 Penn State tool set includes a 1/2" bowl gouge so that saves $20, but I would spend it on the "T" diamond dresser, and goggles, and $ 5 in parts for a sharpening jig. Do you have any experience with the 10" Griz or Penn State step pully mini lathes? If so I will add them to the list. I had some basis for recommending the 12" Rikon, but not for those other two. My original goal was $500, so maybe it can be achieved.

Anyone with experience on the Griz and PS 10" lathes post it here please.


The Griz is $224 shipped:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-18-Bench-Top-Wood-Lathe/H8259 and t.

The Penn State shipped is $202 http://www.pennstateind.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?

The Rikon right now is $280 shipped from Woodcraft
So we are talking about a saving potentially of $78 - $56 vs 12" swing 4" longer bed and maybe better support from Woodcraft.
The Jet mini 1014 is $350 shipped from Woodcraft so that is more expensive. I would druther have the Rikon 12x18 anyway.

Keep those cards and letters comin'

 

[Bernie Weishapl]

Jerry I bought a used Delta midi and then bought the Rikon from Woodcraft. I sold the Delta and now have bed extension on the Rikon and love it. I bought it for the bigger motor and 12" swing. The only lathe I would think of replacing it with would be the 46-460 Delta. I think in your list the 46-460 you listed as a 3/4 hp but I think it has a 1 hp motor both belt and VS. I pretty much got started with just what you have on your list 4 yrs ago for about $400 but I know today the Rikon and other pieces are higher in price. Good stuff you have there Jerry.

 

[Wayne Spence]

Jerhall

I thought I would make one more small contrubution to this volumnious work. If one has 50 or 60 dollars left over think of a saber saw or hand held jig saw. They are so nice for cutting out circles even 3 inches thick for some softer woods. Remember this list is for beginning turners who are to make more serious decisions on equipment in a year or so. The emphasis should be to become proficient with your initial investment and develop a sense of direction in woodturning, not to gather one piece of equipment after another and let that guide you down the road to perdition.

Wayne

 

[Jerry Hall]

Bernie, Wayne

Bernie, Thanks for the correction on the Delta motor HP, and especially the good feedback on the Rikon. I take my recommendations to beginners very seriously and want to be as sure as possible they are getting quality recommendations.

Wayne, Not a small contribution at all! What a great thought to use a saber saw for simple blank prep. I will add that in.

Thanks all for your input.

 

[Jerry Hall]

"Final" Version of $600 Woodturning Shop

Thanks all for your input. I am going to color it DONE for now.
http://docs.google.com/View?id=adv8f4kvqjnq_148g682k7hc

Final changes:

- More readable format, more images of recommended products

- Link to Russ Fairfield's super articles on finishing:
http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/russ3.shtml

- Made a playlist of Rex Burningham's "Basic Woodturning" you tube videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wye_SvPDKAM&feature=PlayList&p=A58964B34D70403C&index=0

- Link to Neal Addy's fine question and answer pages on "Getting Started in Woodturning"
http://www.nealaddy.org/node/39