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A question about industrial tape........is there such a thing?

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odie

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Is there such a thing as tape that is sticky on the sides of the strip, but not in the middle?

I suppose masking tape would work, but it's not that important if the tape itself is paper, plastic, or cloth......as long as the sides will stick to wood spinning on a lathe at around 1200rpm.

thanks

ko
 

hockenbery

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Is there such a thing as tape that is sticky on the sides of the strip, but not in the middle? I suppose masking tape would work, but it's not that important if the tape itself is paper, plastic, or cloth......as long as the sides will stick to wood spinning on a lathe at around 1200rpm. thanks ko

Look for tunnel tape.
It is used over cables and wires.
Edges stick to the floor middle does not stick to the cables.

Al
 

hockenbery

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You could make a small amount of tunnel tape easily from two widths of masking tape.
Sick the narrow tape onto the sticky side of the wide tape.

Mount a spindle in your lathe to wrap the stuck tape around.
Set the wide roll on the ways put the narrow roll around the tool rest.

Go slowly and one person can make a yard in a few minutes.

Have fun
Al
 

odie

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Look for tunnel tape.
It is used over cables and wires.
Edges stick to the floor middle does not stick to the cables.

Al

Thanks for the suggestion, Al......but, don't think that will work for me.

Needs to be cheap and very flexible to wrap around a bowl on the lathe. The non-sticky inner surface needs to be around 1/4" to 1/2' wide....at the most.

I did find some 1/4" wide masking tape, and am thinking about making my own, by applying this to a wider strip of tape.....sticky side to sticky side.

If there is such a thing as this kind of tape already made, that would make things a lot easier for me, though.

ko
 

odie

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You could make a small amount of tunnel tape easily from two widths of masking tape.
Sick the narrow tape onto the sticky side of the wide tape.

Mount a spindle in your lathe to wrap the stuck tape around.
Set the wide roll on the ways put the narrow roll around the tool rest.

Go slowly and one person can make a yard in a few minutes.

Have fun
Al

You and I were thinking of the same thing while I was searching the internet and typing my last post. I think this idea is do-able, if there is no such thing already available. If it could be purchased outright, that would be preferred.

I think I can make up my own dispenser to apply the two tapes a little easier than doing it by hand.

ko
 
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The blue 'painter's' tape has some stretch to it, but not nearly as much as electrical tape. It also does not leave any residue on the surfaces.

What are you trying to do? Sounds kind of like small lines need to be open? protect the outside while you do the inside?

robo hippy
 

odie

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The blue 'painter's' tape has some stretch to it, but not nearly as much as electrical tape. It also does not leave any residue on the surfaces.

What are you trying to do? Sounds kind of like small lines need to be open? protect the outside while you do the inside?

robo hippy

Hi robo......

I'm experiencing some difficulty using my Oneway bowl steady. What's happening is the rubber wheels are sometimes compressing wood dust into the pores of the wood while in use, and this shows up while final finishing the bowl. A blast of air won't remove the plugged pores, and neither does using tape to remove the clogged dust. I've tried experimenting with covering the wood surface with several different kinds of tape and running the wheels on the tape, but this tends to compress the tape's adhesive into the pores, which is also not acceptable. If I ran the wheels on a covered protective surface that wasn't adhesive, and in-between the wood and rubber wheels, I think this problem could be solved.....tape, similar to like being discussed here would probably be a good solution.

Additional coarse sanding will remove the compressed dust, but this requires returning to grits that have already been done.....and, I'm not willing to do that as a matter of standard procedure. As a fix, I do this, but would rather not be required to do this step at all.

......or, if anyone else has ideas, let's hear them.

ko
 

hockenbery

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bowl steadying at a minimum will compress the fibers ( which you can steam out)
New wheels might help.
The most effective method is to leave a 1/8 high band of wood for the steady to ride on. Most of the deep hollowed do this.
Deep hollowing requires a steady for sure. Then turn it away, carve it away, sand it away when finished.

I don't recommend using a bowl steady.

I do all the turning in the outside of a bowl before hollowing including any beads, coves, and sanding if I am sanding on the lathe.
When hollowing I don't want anything to touch the outside.

You might consider going down to Fort Collins co and taking a week end class with Trent Bosch.
He is a super bowl turner and he can bring the class to your level.
My guess is you would out the bowl steady on a shelf when you got home and doing you good bowl even better.

Al
 

odie

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bowl steadying at a minimum will compress the fibers ( which you can steam out)
New wheels might help.
The most effective method is to leave a 1/8 high band of wood for the steady to ride on. Most of the deep hollowed do this.
Deep hollowing requires a steady for sure. Then turn it away, carve it away, sand it away when finished.

I don't recommend using a bowl steady.

I do all the turning in the outside of a bowl before hollowing including any beads, coves, and sanding if I am sanding on the lathe.
When hollowing I don't want anything to touch the outside.

You might consider going down to Fort Collins co and taking a week end class with Trent Bosch.
He is a super bowl turner and he can bring the class to your level.
My guess is you would out the bowl steady on a shelf when you got home and doing you good bowl even better.

Al

And, on the other hand, maybe not, Al......

My guess is if I had you and Trent Bosch as students of mine......you both might be thinking differently about a bowl steady!

ko
 
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Odie,

Google "tape that sticks to itself" and you may find your answer there. From "kinky bondage" to auto electrical to medical, you should find something there that would work perfectly.

Mike
 

hockenbery

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And, on the other hand, maybe not, Al...... My guess is if I had you and Trent Bosch as students of mine......you both might be thinking differently about a bowl steady! ko

Good to know know you are teaching and doing demos.

That is great!

I hope to see one of your demos sometime.


Al
 
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odie

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Good to know know you are teaching and doing demos.

That is great!

I hope to see one of your demos sometime.


Al

You know me better than that, Al......This has been discussed before.

I have zero interest in public teaching, and never will. The only thing I care about is the passion, and results of my own work and progress. I am not willing to invest the time and effort in educating others, other than participating in some online discussion.

(The only possible exception to this would be my own two sons, nieces and nephews. If any of them ever wanted to know what I've learned, and to do what I do, then I might be interested. If that ever happened, then I'd show them a few things that I'm not willing to discuss on a public forum.....even though I am willing to discuss a great many things.)

ko
 

hockenbery

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You know me better than that, Al......This has been discussed before. I have zero interest in public teaching, and never will. The only thing I care about is the passion, and results of my own work and progress. I am not willing to invest the time and effort in educating others, other than participating in some online discussion. (The only possible exception to this would be my own two sons, nieces and nephews. If any of them ever wanted to know what I've learned, and to do what I do, then I might be interested. If that ever happened, then I'd show them a few things that I'm not willing to discuss on a public forum.....even though I am willing to discuss a great many things.) ko

So you were just blowing smoke earlier?
 

odie

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So you were just blowing smoke earlier?

Not at all......I could show you a few innovative things that you are obviously unaware of, but don't have the desire. I never said I was a teacher, only that I could.

ko
 

odie

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Odie,

Google "tape that sticks to itself" and you may find your answer there. From "kinky bondage" to auto electrical to medical, you should find something there that would work perfectly.

Mike

Thank you, Mike......will do right now.

ko
 

hockenbery

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Not at all......I could show you a few innovative things that you are obviously unaware of, but don't have the desire. I never said I was a teacher, only that I could. ko
Do a video
It seems that you have never shown anyone how you turn.
You have all these wonderful techniques you keep hidden from the turning world.
Do a video of a bowl showing what the steady does for you.

I have been lucky enough to see dozens of great bowl turners turn bowls. I have never seen any of them use a steady.
You may have a technique we could use.

You always speak of results. Your steady is giving you bad results but you think we all should use it?

Anyway a video would let us see what you are doing and how the steady works so well for you.
 
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Mark Hepburn

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Odie, perhaps a non-adhesive film? If you don't need the adhesive other than to keep it located on the workpiece, this may be worth looking at. It's a very stretchy and pliable plastic with great self-adhesion qualities. And presumably it wont leave a residue, although I've not used it for your application.

I use it to clamp frames. After taping the corners and rolling up the drama, so to speak, I run this around it to add pula ping force.


I here's a link below.

http://www.amazon.com/Mueller-EZ-Wr...=1438643824&sr=8-4&keywords=plastic+film+wrap

And a pic.

image.jpg
 

odie

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Odie, perhaps a non-adhesive film? If you don't need the adhesive other than to keep it located on the workpiece, this may be worth looking at. It's a very stretchy and pliable plastic with great self-adhesion qualities. And presumably it wont leave a residue, although I've not used it for your application.

I use it to clamp frames. After taping the corners and rolling up the drama, so to speak, I run this around it to add pula ping force.


I here's a link below.

http://www.amazon.com/Mueller-EZ-Wr...=1438643824&sr=8-4&keywords=plastic+film+wrap

And a pic.

View attachment 8600

Thanks, Mark.......That looks like a terrific idea you have there, friend.......:D

I picked up some standard 1/2" cellophane tape today, and plan to run an experiment with it used in conjunction with some hockey stick cloth handle wrap. I'll do the experiment and see if it works. Even if it does work, it still requires two pieces of tape stuck together. If I can eliminate this and use the plastic film in your link, that would be preferable.

At the moment, I put a roll of the plastic EZ wrap film in my Amazon cart. I haven't done the purchase yet, but probably will soon.

Thank you for your creative thinking on this........:cool:

ko
 

Bill Boehme

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Odie, perhaps a non-adhesive film? If you don't need the adhesive other than to keep it located on the workpiece, this may be worth looking at. It's a very stretchy and pliable plastic with great self-adhesion qualities. And presumably it wont leave a residue, although I've not used it for your application.

I use it to clamp frames. After taping the corners and rolling up the drama, so to speak, I run this around it to add pula ping force.


I here's a link below.

http://www.amazon.com/Mueller-EZ-Wr...=1438643824&sr=8-4&keywords=plastic+film+wrap

And a pic.

View attachment 8600

Mark, I was just about to suggest the same thing before I noticed that you stole my idea before I thought of it. :rolleyes:

However, it may not solve the problem of fibers on the surface being dented although it does fix the problem of dust getting embedded if that is what the problem really happens to be. I have been wondering if possibly dented end grain has the appearance on embedded dust. Using the plastic might help answer that question.
 
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Huh...

So, I've used a bowl steady exactly once (while doing my first full-size goblet under the guidance of my friend Phil on his Powermatic). I didn't worry about compressing dust into the wood, as I was learning the cut sequence and practicing getting a nice even curve and wall.

Sounds to me like plumber's teflon tape would do just the trick for you. It's pretty inexpensive, and if it doesn't do what you want on your bowl, you can always redo all the drains in your house :)

The teflon tape doesn't stick to anything. It sort of clings to itself with a bit of stretching. Be sure to wrap it clockwise around your bowl (as you face the headstock), so that the bowl steady pushes the loose end of the tape onto the tape. (It forces the tape to cling--a klingon, if you prefer...)
 
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Odie,
I learned to turn bowls of all sizes without a bowl steady before I even knew there was such a contraption. My main rule for that is hand pressure on the outside of the bowl = tool pressure on the inside of the bowl/bevel rub. I have no use for one now. I would expect that there will always be some sort of compression when the wheels are engaged, and if you put too much padding on the bowl, there will be little stabilizing effect of the steady rest. I would think that you would want absolute minimal pressure any way. I do wait to sand till the bowl till it is all turned rather than turning the outside, sand, then turn the inside, and sand again. More efficient for me.

Say, how did you get the handle Odie?

robo hippy came from me twirling my hammer around my finger like robo cop did in the original movie, and putting it into my tool belt. I was wearing a big knee brace from having blown up one knee, and one of the crew shouted, 'hey, it's robo hippy!'. I loved it....

robo hippy
 

hockenbery

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Odie, I learned to turn bowls of all sizes without a bowl steady before I even knew there was such a contraption. My main rule for that is hand pressure on the outside of the bowl = tool pressure on the inside of the bowl/bevel rub. I have no use for one now. .. robo hippy

I'm sure you put minimal pressure on the inside when the bowl is thin.
When I turn natural edge I do my finish cuts with the Ellsworth gouge. Using the shear cut puts almost no pressure on the side wall so no outside support is needed.
The cut is on the leading edge of the wing so any pressure is toward the bottom of the bowl where the wall is still thick to give support.
Working the side wall in steps leaves a thin finished wall and a thick supporting wall.

I can turn an 1/8" thick this way sometimes a little thinner. I usually have a goal of 3/16" and get an 1/8 by accident.
While on the uneven cut I can see both sides of the wall so if I can cut a line even with the outside it makes and even wall.

Al
 

odie

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Odie,
I learned to turn bowls of all sizes without a bowl steady before I even knew there was such a contraption. My main rule for that is hand pressure on the outside of the bowl = tool pressure on the inside of the bowl/bevel rub. I have no use for one now. I would expect that there will always be some sort of compression when the wheels are engaged, and if you put too much padding on the bowl, there will be little stabilizing effect of the steady rest. I would think that you would want absolute minimal pressure any way. I do wait to sand till the bowl till it is all turned rather than turning the outside, sand, then turn the inside, and sand again. More efficient for me.

Say, how did you get the handle Odie?

robo hippy came from me twirling my hammer around my finger like robo cop did in the original movie, and putting it into my tool belt. I was wearing a big knee brace from having blown up one knee, and one of the crew shouted, 'hey, it's robo hippy!'. I loved it....

robo hippy

Don't take the following as an affront, robo........because I only see my turning philosophy in context with my own efforts. Because I choose to do things differently than others might do it, isn't a statement about right and wrong, as far has how others choose to pursue their own turning. What anybody else does is fine with me.

It's my opinion that if a turner pursues complicated shapes that would require an intensely precise and difficult sanding regimen, while trying to preserve the geometry, then the only thing that will save the day, is to do them with the absolute least amount of sanding possible. Otherwise sanding will become a chore that will become overwhelming, time consuming, and ultimately distorts the geometry. What I consider to be "excessive sanding", many other tuners will consider it to be a normal amount of sanding. My bowl steady is modified to better suit the purpose, but that's not the end of the equation. A turner must use everything available to him to the best advantage......technique, sharpening, tool choice, body control, tool handling, and on and on. A bowl steady is a tool which is only a small piece of the puzzle to eliminate as much sanding as possible......but, IMHO, it is a very important piece of that puzzle.

Those of you following this forum, know I recently made a great advancement by learning a little more about raised burrs on finishing scrapers. This is adding to the "equation", although a ground scraper burr, if done properly, is 95% of what a honed burr can be, and do....as long as everything else is working in harmony. Every little bit, no matter how small an improvement, helps! I consider this just a "piece of the puzzle" on my quest for as perfect a tool finish as I can possibly get. You great people on this forum were instrumental in my discovery of that......just as you were in other discoveries I've made since joining the forum. This is in conjunction with my own individual personality and input, of course.....I always add my own personal "twist" to things!

I suspect that he got it from his last name, Odell. Do you remember the cartoon show, The King and Odie, from the 1960's? Odie O. Cologne was the main character. You can see some of the episodes on YouTube.

My Dad had the "odie" handle before I did, and it did come from our last name. I had a favorite dog, some thirty years ago, who was named "odie colognie", or "Otis of Cologne", as a nickname's nickname......which also became part of the established tradition. Odie Colognie was sort of a take-away from that amorous cartoon skunk who continually courted the cute skunk babe, but she couldn't stand the smell!....always thought that cartoon was a riot! :D

Nicknames are an interesting subject, and if anyone else would like to tell us how they got theirs.....let's hear it! :)

ko
 
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Not offended at all Odie. We all do things differently. Some make sense to me, some do not. It would be interesting to see you turn some time. I am the curious type.

I do remember Odie from the cartoons... Half the time he was in love with a cat....

"All of the creator's children are different. And, some of us are more different than others..." unknown

Why, yes, I am!

robo hippy
 

odie

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Another AAW forum member with experience in wrapping bowls prior to using a bowl steady PM'ed me and turned me on to this 2" wide plastic wrap. He told me it was better for uneven shapes, and I can see how it would work better than the wider wraps for that reason.

Thanks to Mark, the PMer, and the others who contributed to this thread. I was considering other things that were more complicated. This solution is simple and looks effective to put a barrier inbetween the wheel and wood. This is exactly why I participate on this forum......There have been multiple times I've needed some brain collaboration, and found it here!

I ordered one of these to do further experimenting with.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111256647594?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

ko
 
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Mark Hepburn

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Another AAW forum member with experience in wrapping bowls prior to using a bowl steady PM'ed me and turned me on to this 2" wide plastic wrap. He told me it was better for uneven shapes, and I can see how it would work better than the wider wraps for that reason.

Thanks to Mark, the PMer, and the others who contributed to this thread. I was considering other things that were more complicated. This solution is simple and looks effective to put a barrier inbetween the wheel and wood. This is exactly why I participate on this forum......There have been multiple times I've needed some brain collaboration, and found it here!

I ordered one of these to do further experimenting with.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111256647594?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

ko

Hey Odie, that's the stuff. I hope it works for you (and let us know, will you?).

Mark
 
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I have found with the stretch film that it needs to go over the rim of the bowl. If it is just on the sides, it will slide down. This could inhibit turning access near the rim of the bowl. I find the over lap needs to be in the 4 to 1 or more ratio as in 1 inch over and inside the rim, and 4 inches down the side.

robo hippy
 

Mark Hepburn

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Well, Bill is sort of bland, by comparison. It's just short for Billy.

Mark is short for Mark. My dad hated nicknames. Thus, I went through school being called "Hep".
 

odie

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Hey Odie, that's the stuff. I hope it works for you (and let us know, will you?).

Mark

I will, Mark......it will be awhile before I can do enough testing to have reliable answers.

I have found with the stretch film that it needs to go over the rim of the bowl. If it is just on the sides, it will slide down. This could inhibit turning access near the rim of the bowl. I find the over lap needs to be in the 4 to 1 or more ratio as in 1 inch over and inside the rim, and 4 inches down the side.

robo hippy

Robo......I think it will be dependent on the shape of the bowl, and there may be things that could reinforce the adherence for the worst shapes......I'm already considering possibilities for just this thing.

ko9
 

odie

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Mark, I was just about to suggest the same thing before I noticed that you stole my idea before I thought of it. :rolleyes:

However, it may not solve the problem of fibers on the surface being dented although it does fix the problem of dust getting embedded if that is what the problem really happens to be. I have been wondering if possibly dented end grain has the appearance on embedded dust. Using the plastic might help answer that question.

Hello Bill......

I haven't had a problem with the "fibers on the surface being dented". Do you mean the rubber wheels of the bowl steady are causing this? I can't imagine how this is happening, unless there is way too much pressure between wheels and the surface of the bowl.

Can you expand on this, and give us your evaluation of the causes, please?

My problem is definitely dust being imbedded in the surface of the bowl, which is darn near impossible to remove......unless I go back several grades of sandpaper to remove it. (This in intermittent, and not with every bowl.) It's not just on end grain.....it can, at times, be on the entire circumference of the bowl.

ko
 
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I would think any wheel pressure will dent the wood. Consider thousands of revolutions with minimal pressure.... That is pretty much burnishing.

robo hippy
 

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I would think any wheel pressure will dent the wood. Consider thousands of revolutions with minimal pressure.... That is pretty much burnishing.

robo hippy

Howdy Robo......

Actually, that's a negative. If set up properly, there is no deformation of the wood at all. Very light pressure is all that's needed.

ko


edit: Besides too much pressure, there is one other possibility where "denting" of the wood would occur......that is if the bowl steady is being run on a badly out-of-round bowl. In this case, the bowl steady shouldn't be used.....unless you've modified it to overcome this contingency. I've modified my bowl steady to either solidly lock the scissor arms, or to flex with spring pressure. This allows me to run the bowl steady on bowls that have a small amount of warp, and still have the benefit of the stabilizing effect of the wheels. There comes a point where the warp is too severe to use a bowl steady, and that's when I can no longer use mine.

ko
 
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I don't think it would take any pressure at all to burnish the wood with the wheels which would be similar to burnishing with the heel of the gouge. Very hard to sand out. I tried a steady on bowls early on and had that problem. Learned to handle the gouge better and haven't used a steady since. I had the same problem when trying to solve my long spindle vibration problems. Tried 3 different steadys and all did the same thing. I eventually learned how to turn long spindles without a steady also. What I did that worked the best on spindles was to leave the area where the steady goes a little large. Than I would leave this as the last area to be turned. Remove the steady and turn this burnished area away.
 

odie

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I don't think it would take any pressure at all to burnish the wood with the wheels which would be similar to burnishing with the heel of the gouge. Very hard to sand out. I tried a steady on bowls early on and had that problem. Learned to handle the gouge better and haven't used a steady since. I had the same problem when trying to solve my long spindle vibration problems. Tried 3 different steadys and all did the same thing. I eventually learned how to turn long spindles without a steady also. What I did that worked the best on spindles was to leave the area where the steady goes a little large. Than I would leave this as the last area to be turned. Remove the steady and turn this burnished area away.

Hi John.....

The only way for that to happen, is if the wheels are not running true to the wood surface.....causing a slip. If there is no slip, there is no problem.

ko
 

hockenbery

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The burnishing is going to happen whether it is noticeable or not will depend on the density of the wood and the eye of the turner.

I turn a lot of spheres using a wooden cup or a rubber chucky cup for the drive.
The cup does not move relative to the ball. Same concept as the wheels touching at a single point.
On balls of softer woods like camphor there is a visible ring left by the cup.
When sanded to 220 the ring is hard to see when sanded to 320 I can't see it.

Those fibers are still compressed a bit but s little that it isn't a problem.
 
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odie

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The burnishing is going to happen whether it is noticeable or not will depend on the density of the wood and the eye of the turner.

Al


Not if the bowl steady is set up properly, Al....... :)

ko
 
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