Anyone ever turned a full sized football?

[BenjaminJoseph]

Hi,

I bought a lathe about 2 years ago but haven't made the time to do any projects until now. With football season around the corner, I got interested in making a full sized replica football. Here's a link to the only one I have been able to find online: http://www.woodcentral.com/shots/shot469.shtml Mine will be different in that it will not have vertical stripes at either end so it will consist of only four pieces of wood, one for each quadrant as defined by the seems. Has anyone ever tried this before? there are a few specific things I'm trying to figure out:

1) Someone told me I'll I will need for this project is a roughing gouge. Does that sound right or should I use other tools to finish it off?
2) Soon after I got my lathe a couple years ago a neighbor showed me all the workings and safety measures and eveen helped me turn a bowl. That bowl, and everything else I've practiced on still shows the cutting lines (I don't know if there is a better name for them). I'm trying to get a mirror type finish that I see on so many beautifully turned projects. Are there any specific things that could be causing the lines not to go away, i.e. tool isn't sharp enough, using wrong tool, wood is too hard, etc? Or is it just a matter of more practice? I tried sanding them away before but to no avail. Is it possible I just wasn't using course enough grit or is that a lost cause?
3) Is there more to the finish than sanding and polyurethane? I've heard of using wood filler and other things but I don't know if that would help on this.
4) In the link I posted above, the guy talks about turning the ball in 1/4 in. steps and then smoothing it out. Can anyone explain this step and whether it is necessary? Is this an easier way to turn it? The "smoothing out" part is obviously my problem, would this make it easier?

Thanks to anyone who replies. I'm really looking forward to doing a lot of turning from now on. I've enjoyed the little that I've done so far and look forward to being more proficient someday...with a little help of course.

-Ben

 

[Mark Warden]

Hi Ben if you answer a couple questions it would be easier to know where you need help.
1. What cutting tools do you have ?
2. Do you know what riding the bevel is ?
3. Do you know how to use a parting tool ?

Just trying to find out how much help you need.

 

[BenjaminJoseph]

Hi Mark,

1) I have a basic set of tools that came with the lathe (which is a Jet JWL-1236). I think there are 7-8 of them. Two roughing gouges (one large one small), two parting tools, two skew chisels, maybe one or two others in there. They are not great quality by any stretch of the imagination. I'm pretty sure they are High Speed Steel, definitely not carbide. If purchasing one good tool would make it much easier on me then I'm willing to do that.

2) I do know what riding the bevel is...in concept. Don't know if I'm doing it exactly right though. As I understand it you want to place the bevel on the workpiece and then slide the tool back towards the tool rest until the cutting edge makes contact with the wood. Sound about right?

3) I tried the parting tool last night. I wasn't 100% sure which side of it was the cutting side, but one worked better than the other so I used that side. Can either side of the parting tool be used to cut if sharpened correctly? also, I was practicing on a piece of dogwood (which I've heard is pretty hard) and the parting tool produced quite a bit of heat, smoke, and blackened wood. Is that to be expected or is it too dull?

 

[john lucas]

Wow A lot of questions. Your are roughly correct on riding the bevel. The bevel keeps you from getting catches which are nasty dings that tear out wood. If your tools are sharp you should be getting little curly shavings. If your throwing out little chips then something is wrong. If the tool is sharp try angling the tool a little so the shavings come across the cutting edge at an angle rather than straight over the edge at 90 degrees.
There is a difference between tool marks and tearout, both of which can appear as lines around the piece. Tool marks are usually caused by feeding the tool too fast over the work, forcing the to tool to cut (dull tool) or lathe speed too slow (which usually appears as a spiral).
Tearout is little chunks pulled out of the wood. This is usually caused by a dull tool, pushing the tool too fast across the wood, or the wrong presentation of the tool. to prevent it, sharpen the tool, speed up the lathe a little and try not to force the tool to cut. Rotate the tool so the edge is slicing at an angle. Of course rotten or punky wood will tear out also. I almost forgot the most important thing. Cut down hill on grain. This usually means cutting from the high point to the lower points on the wood.
I don't know why you would have to turn an inch at a time on something like that. Rough the whole thing to shape using a rough out gouge. Then take a freshly sharpened spindle gouge and start fine tuning the shape. If your still gettting tool marks you can remove them by using the skew held flat on the tool rest and gently touching the wood to remove the high spots. Normaly I would not suggest using skew for that. A flat scraper held at a 45 degree angle and cutting with the lower 1/3 would be better but you need to practice that and it probably wouldn't hurt to see someone else use a scraper that way.

 

[Mark Warden]

Ok Ben here is some of my thoughts I think you have 1 roughing gouge which will be square at the tip with a steep bevel and bigger the other is a spindle gouge it is more rounded and has a longer bevel.1parting tool that is ground to a point and has a square edge and is used standing on the edge and a V cutting tool that looks like a parting tool but will be flat on one side with a point and 2 bevels on the bottom that is used flat on the tool rest.Sounds to me like your pushing the parting tool straight in and scraping instead of cutting. Like John said Sharp is a must most tools don't come sharp out of the box you need to put a good edge on them if you can't turn the piece by hand and draw a shaving with the tool it's not sharp.The best thing you can do to learn is go to youtube search woodturning or lathe and watch lots of differant people using the tools and get a FULL FACE SHIELD not just glasses.Also put where your from in your profile there is good chance someone close to you could help you out.

 

[Mark Warden]

The pictures look to me like the guy used a parting tool to turn the shape maybe to get perfect dimensions of a real football

 

[Rick M]

Others might offer different recommendations, but when I started turning, a friend loaned me his copy of Keith Rowley's book Woodturning: A Foundation Course. IMHO it's a pretty small investment for the value of information within, especially if you're new and on your own.



IMO, you'll find some good descriptions for basic tool types and their usage, sharpening, and ideas to practice what you've read. Even better if you happen to have a nearby turner, club, or public library with a copy you can peruse.

One other suggestion I'll offer is begin by making a prototype using less expensive but easily tooled wood (perhaps poplar, mahogany or similar), then take what you've learned and apply it to your intended project.

 

[Joe Greiner]

The reason for 1/4-inch steps is to "sneak up" on the shape, probably using calipers or half-circle templates of appropriate diameter. It helps to make these a little larger than needed to allow for final cutting or sanding. Calipers or templates for any shape generally indicate when the shape is too big and eligible for more cutting; when it's too small, it's too late for correction, except by heroic measures.

It might be early in your game to attempt a complicated football, but don't let that discourage you. Embrace your mistakes with enthusiasm, and learn from them. After all, this stuff really does grow on trees.

A member of our club, North Florida Woodturners, occasionally makes footballs in quasi-segmented construction, very different from the link you found. He gave a demo at a meeting last year. Our website has recently undergone a drastic re-build; I'll try to find an appropriate link, or copy from our newsletter. In the meantime, try to get acquainted with turners in your area. The AAW home page has links to "Find a Local Chapter." And adding your location to your profile could also help, as Mark says.

 

[Griesbach]

Ben, you don't say where you're from but getting in touch with your nearest AAW chapter will put you in contact with turners willing to help you learn some of the basics. Turning is great fun and we don't want you to be turned off by frustration. I wish I had found my chapter when I started because I'd have saved lots of time and money.

Go to this link to locate the chapter nearest you. Give the contact person a call and I'm sure you'll find lots of help.

http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/LocalChapters.asp

 

[BenjaminJoseph]

Thanks to all of you for the replies. They have helped a lot! I'm in Atlanta so I think I'll contact the Gwinnett Woodworkers Assn. to try to get some better instruction in person.

I tried this weekend to produce a model out of poplar (I want the final version to be Mahogany or Walnut, something dark in color). I kept having the same problem over and over with the tailstock. I'm sure everyone's familiar with the tiny rotating pin in the tailstock (or maybe that IS the tailstock, I don't know) that is used to hold the opposite end of the workpiece from the chuck. Well every time I got close to that end of the workpiece and got even the tiniest gouge in the wood, the point of the pin would move and the workpiece would become unbalanced. My assumption is that this is happening so much because the workpiece is pretty large and heavy. Before I roughed it out into a cylinder, it was about at the capacity of the lathe.

This happened 3 or 4 times before I glued (with CA glue) a piece of peruvian walnut (very hard) on to the end of the workpiece to make contact with the tailstock. Since it's much harder wood, I figured it would be more difficult to get it off track. Well, that worked better, but it still got lopsided after a few good hits.

Does this sound like a common problem? More importantly, anyone know a good solution?

 

[Joe Greiner]

Thanks to all of you for the replies. They have helped a lot! I'm in Atlanta so I think I'll contact the Gwinnett Woodworkers Assn. to try to get some better instruction in person.

I tried this weekend to produce a model out of poplar (I want the final version to be Mahogany or Walnut, something dark in color). I kept having the same problem over and over with the tailstock. I'm sure everyone's familiar with the tiny rotating pin in the tailstock (or maybe that IS the tailstock, I don't know) that is used to hold the opposite end of the workpiece from the chuck. Well every time I got close to that end of the workpiece and got even the tiniest gouge in the wood, the point of the pin would move and the workpiece would become unbalanced. My assumption is that this is happening so much because the workpiece is pretty large and heavy. Before I roughed it out into a cylinder, it was about at the capacity of the lathe.

This happened 3 or 4 times before I glued (with CA glue) a piece of peruvian walnut (very hard) on to the end of the workpiece to make contact with the tailstock. Since it's much harder wood, I figured it would be more difficult to get it off track. Well, that worked better, but it still got lopsided after a few good hits.

Does this sound like a common problem? More importantly, anyone know a good solution?

On some lathes, the small pointed thing in the live center is held in the barrel by a setscrew. If the setscrew is loose, the point might wobble enough to throw things off. That's the first thing I'd check.

And even in the best of setups, working too small a diameter at either end reduces the strength of the workpiece enough to break it loose. In these regions, I try to take very, very, light cuts. Also, stop turning while there's still enough wood for support, and take the final cuts off the lathe, hand sanding if necessary.

I sometimes turn tiny birdhouse earrings from 1/2-inch dowel in cantilever mode. (And will again if I can find my DIY steady rest.) I have to stop turning when the pointed base is about 1/16-inch diameter, and complete the work off the lathe.

 

[Mark Warden]

I'm not sure what kind live center comes with your lathe but on some the point is spring loaded and only used for centering and the cup behind it does the holding. If yours is like that and your just using the point your not putting enough pressure against it.Also if your using the roughing gouge put the tool rest just below center and roll it so your not cutting in the middle of the blade but more on 1 side or the other and keep the rest as close to the piece as possible and you'll get less catches.

 

[Rob]

ZFootball

Ben,
I had trouble loading your pics, but it sounds like you're turning out to the ends of the football ie: pionts on both ends. You need to leave scrap wood on each end. Your wood needs to be longer then your finished piece. You may have to leave the ends to be finished at 3/8 dia or so, cut it off and round by hand.