Anyone use or order the Kobra?

[Burt Alcantara]

I'm ready to pull the trigger for a captured system, the Jamieson being top of the list. I saw an old post on SMC that linked to a chapter, I forget where, that had a demo of the Kobra.

http://www.cicaaw.org/image/tid/166?PHPSESSID=509ba38421413cc467c05c6dc8776987

I contacted the manufacturer a while back before the product was "live." He only sent an image. Not much other information. His quoted price was about $550 and I don't recall if that included anything.

I'm curious if there are any limiting factors with a design like this (similar to the Elbo).

My only experience with hollowing was pretty grim. As I'm getting on in years I don't want to devote 5 years to learning how to get a good hollow, so captured systems appear to fit the bill.

For you experienced guys, can you give me some insights between the Kobra and the Jamieson?

Thanks,
Burt

 

[Captain Eddie]

Home Made Solution

I haven't seen this tool, but the engineering looks great. That's lots of $$$ for hollowing, especially for beginning. Look on the tools forum and see one I'm providing details on called the Steel Snake. I will soon post a how to on a laser that you can make for about $25.00 and it uses a gun sight for a laser.
I've used just about all the gizmos and rigs available. Captured systems are great, but somewhat limiting. The ones which allow more movement work better for small to mid sized pieces. I turned a large one this weekend with the snake and learned some of it's limits.
A lot has to do with technique, you have to know what is happening, when and how. Lot of guys try hollowing first, I'd advise doing a bowl with one to see what happens when you make cuts, under cuts, thin walls, etc. You can see it in front of you and you can develop a technique which suits you and the hollowing tool.
Then, when you go inside, you will understand what you feel. Because that's all you will be doing, feeling.
Take this for what it's worth. I don't make or sell tools for a living. I look at available technology and try to develop ways for turners to accomoplish the same without all the expense. I've improved on many ideas in the past, but passed each of them on for woodturners to try. That is what we're supposed to do in this forum.
If you need any help, please contact me.

 

[4mikee]

My only experience with hollowing was pretty grim. As I'm getting on in years I don't want to devote 5 years to learning how to get a good hollow, so captured systems appear to fit the bill.

For you experienced guys, can you give me some insights between the Kobra and the Jamieson?

Thanks,
Burt

Burt,
I don't know how experienced I would be considered but i am hollowing tool poor. I've got several non captured systems and wasn't quite satisfied with the time or end result needed to acheive what I wanted. I wanted something more finished and a better more consistent wall. After some reluctance I purchased the Jamieson about a month ago and have been very satisfied. You can still turn through a piece though. I don't think you will go wrong with the Jamieson. I got the carbide cutter with mine and video as well as the secondary tool rest. I'm not so sure I like the carbide cutter. The video is a must and I'm happy with the tool rest. I had a problem with my laser and CS sent a replacement right away. I think you'll be pretty satisfied with it and the learning curve required.
I don't know anything about the elbo or the other unit you mention.
Let us know what you decide.

 

[Peter Hawkins]

hollowing

Hi Burt, I'm a novice on turning particularly hollowing, I started with the the Termite, but takes a lot of work and always felt totally Knackered after, I renamed it the the Terminator lol. Went with the Lyle Jamieson hollowing system,.....never looked back , so easy to use, and still feel fresh after using it, I love it, the dvd is great, and Lyle is very helpful to say the least.

I would say YES go for it, if you get the dvd first you will see more.


Regards Peter.

 

[john lucas]

I thought this one looked nice. http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=546

http://www.monster-wood-tool.com/wst_page6.html This one is very similar to the Vicmarc. I have played with the lazar attachment on this one and it's one of the best that I've used. It produces a nice crisp dot and is very rigid.

http://www.elbotool.com/ this one started the articulating arm trend.

I'll try to check on the availability of the Kobra. I think it's a more versatile tool than any of the above. I don't know if it's actually reached the marketplace yet.

 

[Burt Alcantara]

John,
Would you elaborate on "...I think it's a more versatile tool than any of the above..."?

The Monster looks very interesting. All those tools, nice price too. Looks like I'm going to sit on my hands for a while and see how things fall out.

Burt

 

[Truffuls]

hollowing, dreaded hollowing...

Sheesh, what a long road finding a hollowing tool/system that you like can be...

Having nothing, I started by making my own from allen wrenches and old screw drivers. Those are still some of my favorites.

After a 2 day marathon studio session with Cindy Drozda and getting to try all her tools, I came home madly in love with Lyle's setup, but not loving the price.
I spent even more money, still looking for that ultimate hollower. Still not satisfied, I bought Lyle's setup. (the price dropped)

Do I love it, sure, it works fabulous on anything with a LARGE opening. My problem: I work on small projects 99.99% of the time; openings not exceeding 1/2".

I continued my search; got the Unique Tools... all images and statements led me to believe that the smallest tool he offers (3/8" wide) should fit, right? WRONG! It is almost an inch tall, so it doesn't fit into small openings!

After commenting back/forth last night with Gary Ljostad on his small projects with tiny openings, he recommended the Kelton mini hollowing tools. Says he loves them. All searches pointed to the same happy conclusions, so, guess what? I ordered those last night!

I've seen Jim Syvertsen use small allen wrenches quite happily and he makes gorgeous stuff, but I've also seen him look rather uncomfortable as a teacher doing so, arms vibrating to the hilt and the wrench snapping off inside the piece.

I do not wish to travel that path. I do not enjoy the grabbing, snapping, tool-yanking experience so I won't use the small allen wrenches or the Sorby hollower with long, right angle profiles and no beef. I am not a guy in need of proving my bravado, I'm a gal who likes making nice with the wood.

IF,
LYLE, ARE YOU LISTENING?????
If Lyle would make a SMALL boring bar and cutter assembly for his unit, I would be the happiest turner on the planet!

To make me the happiest turner in the Universe, I'd want interchangeable cutters with different profiles to reach all those nooks and crannys.

... oh, Lyle, can you hear me?.....

I'll report back on how the Kelton tools work out.

 

[Steve Worcester]

The Kelton hollowers will work fine in the Jamieson setup , you just need to make an adapter and get longer allen screws to hold it down. It actually could be made on a woodlathe using a couple drill bits a chunk of aluminum rod and a drill press.

I have a few homemade captured hollowing rigs like the Jamieson (bought his first though) and made adapters to fit most of my tools including the two smaller McNaughton tips.

 

[Duane]

Kobra Hollowing System

I turn a lot of hollow forms useing several different hollowing tools. The handheld units work but the take a tole on your body and are somewhat dangerous to use. The captured systems work well but they have limitatings. The KOBRA system works great. It will accept different sized bars for deep hollowing or hollowing through a small hole. The Kobra system works great. I have had the pleasure of testing several different Kobra models. When I tested them I tryed to tear it up but could not. I broke a few cutter tips off though. The Kobra was a lot easer to use than many other hollowing rigs on the market. They have also figured out a lazer attachment.
I can not give any information on cost or availability of the new Kobra hollowing system. Maybe they can (765) 534-4437.
Try one. You will like it.
Duane

 

[David Somers]

Burt,

I have liked the hollowing systems I tried, but as you've noticed, they cost a bundle. Do you have a club near you with folks who would be willing to help you with your hollowing? I do mine by hand with a set of Keltons, which I love, and a Rolly Monro I bought at the Portland Symposium, which I also like alot. Its not hard if someone is by your side to help guide you. That really helps knock the learning curve down.

Earlier in this post someone mentioned practicing with a hollowing system on an open bowl so you could see what is happening and corellate it with what you are feeling. Same is true if you hollow by hand. Do it on an open bowl first and get used to what is going on. That really helps the learning curve as well.

And resist the urge to bend down as you work so you can peer into the hollow form. That is brutal on your neck and shoulders and back, and throws off your body position. Stay upright. Work slowly and feel and listen to what is happening. It is not that hard to do.

Dave (easy for me to say) Somers <grin>

 

[john lucas]

Duane's the man when it comes to answering the Kobra questions. The simply response is that the Vicmarc, monster tools, and Elbow tool are all restricted my the mounting column. On the Vicmarc and Monster tools you can move behind the post but not in one fluid movement. With the Kobra each arm is mounted above the other so that you have unrestricted movement of the tool.

 

[john lucas]

Lyle Jamieson has been very helpful in getting people started in the captured bar hollowing systems. He does sell a good system and even has an article on his site to help you build your own. I've built 3 now. Each one is an improvement on the other. https://www.lylejamieson.com/tools/tool_howto.asp

 

[Burt Alcantara]

John,
Could you explain this? I looked at all of the tools on their respective sites but couldn't get what you are referring to.

On the Vicmarc and Monster tools you can move behind the post but not in one fluid movement

Duane,
Easier in what ways?

The Kobra was a lot easer to use than many other hollowing rigs on the market.

I realize if I go this route it will be a "buy once, cry once" experience. Because of this I tend to be very price conscience. The Kobra appears, at first glance, to be the most expensive, with the Monster, the least.

Dave, I understand what you are saying but the few times I've tried manual hollowing, I didn't have much luck. If I were a younger man I'd probably put the time in but I have other interests and a limited reserve of energy. BTW, how do you ever dry wood in that environment? Went there a few years ago with the wife. Seemed like it rained UP every day. But what a beautiful environment!

Thanks,
Burt

 

[john lucas]

Burt The elbow tool, vicmarc and others all have their arms kind of inline. This means that they move forward and back and sideways quite easily up to the point that you pull them back to the mounting bracket, or with the elbow tool, the tailstock.
With the Vicmarc and Monster tools you can probably extend the arms behind the mounting point but not in one fluid movement.
The Kobra system has all the the arms stacked on top of each other so each arm is free to move 360 degrees around itself. This allows complete freedom of movement. You can pull the tool straight back toward the mounting post and then keep going right over the top and continue on back. You can even go from turning inside to turning outside the vessel without moving anything.
My biggest complaint with my homemade Jamieson version is that for some vessels I have to move the rear support, change to a curved bar or both to reach all of the places I need to cut. That's why I've been looking at the other versions and like you, trying to decide what will work for me. The Kobra prototype was the only one of the group I've actually had hands on experience with. I liked it a lot. I haven't followed it too closely because I don't have the bucks it takes to buy one right now.
I wish I could find my photos of the original versions but I've somehow lost them so we will have to wait for the ads to come out.

 

[Burt Alcantara]

John,
Your explanation makes all the sense in the world. I can see how this is a better tool. I found an old email from Ray. The prices quoted at that time were $400 for the unit and $99 for the laser.

It is more costly then all of the discussed systems but it appears to be worth it. This gives me much to mull over.

Thanks,
Burt

 

[Griesbach]

Burt,
I expect to have my Kobra up and running in a week or two depending on other issues coming up. Like john, I also had hands on with the prototype and that's what made the difference for me. Also, like you, I deal with carpal tunnel and arthritis and hand held hollowing leaves my hands numb...sometimes for days...so that was another reason for going the captured route. If you're any where near central WI you're welcome to give it a try.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Burt,

I've known Al Crandle, the inventor, for many years. He's a former Tool Room Chief for a major automaker, now retired, so he knows his way around machine tools.

I'm looking forward to seeing his rig at the Richmond Symposium in June.

Knowing Al, I'll bet there will be some improvements between now and then.

BTW I made my own Jamieson-style hollowing rig that will handle bars between 3/8" and 1". The pic is of the setup mounted on my Stubby. Uses a $5 laser pointer and some 3/4" cold-rolled bar stock. Total cost $80

 

[Steve Worcester]

Any word on what the Kobra costs, where we can get more info and when it will be available for sale?

 

[Mark Mandell]

Any word on what the Kobra costs, where we can get more info and when it will be available for sale?

Steve,

When I last spoke to Al, he was planning on a booth in Richmond. I got the impression that such would be kind of a "launch", but that was just my impression. I'll get in touch with him and see if he'll post here directly.

Stay Tuned

 

[Al Crandall]

Kobra system information

Hello Bert. Thanks for asking about our products. The basic green Kobra Jr. is $399.95 plus shipping. It is bored to accept a 5/8 diameter boring bar and will fit lathes from 10" to 14" swings. A laser guide, boring bars, and adapters to fit your own bars are available and priced separately. The complete system is $499.90 and we will pay the shipping costs which saves you $38.90. The green system has 8" travel each side of the mounting post for a total of 16" . which is a lot more than you can use when hollowing with a 5/8" bar. It comes with a tool rest of our own design which we call the "goal post" tool rest. Hardened rests and boring bars are available and priced separately.

The basic red Kobra system is $449.95 plus shipping, or the complete system for $659.85 which saves you $58.95 shipping. This thing is built like a tank but handles like a puck on an air hockey table. It is bored to accept a 1" diameter boring bar and will fit lathes from 16" to 26" swing. Adapters for smaller bars are available and a laser guide also. Hardened bars and a hardened "goal post" tool rest can be purchased to eliminate any dings which might affect the smoothness of the cut as the bar traverses the rest. We have hollowed to 15" deep with the red Kobra. The depth is a function of the diameter of the boring bar, not our system. A common ratio for deep hollowing is 15 times the bar diameter overhanging the tool rest unsupported. We anticipate offering a larger diameter bar for deeper use in the future but it is not available at this writing. We are introducing three tips on a 1/2" shank which can be inserted into the end of a boring bar to present the 3/16" hss bit at 45, 22, and zero degrees from the centerline of the bar. The Kobra has been designed and manufactured in the Indiana heartland by Indiana Innovators, Inc. and we proudly engrave Kobra Patent Pend. on each one. Thank you again for asking.


Contact us for more details at:

Ray Thompson rayt@indy.net

Al Crandall alkaron@indy.net

Jerry Arnold earlygrandpa@yahoo.com

 

[Burt Alcantara]

Al,
What is included with the complete system (red, that is)? How much for each separate part, especially, adaptors?

Can the green be adapted to accept a 3/4 bar?

Thanks,
Burt

 

[Mark Mandell]

Al,
What is included with the complete system (red, that is)? How much for each separate part, especially, adaptors?

Can the green be adapted to accept a 3/4 bar?

Thanks,
Burt

Hey, Burt,

Knowing Al, he's probably out in the machine shop writing the CNC milling program and less likely to be checking in on this forum. You'll likely get a faster response if you e-mail him or one of the other guys at the links he posted. I'm looking forward to seeing his rig in Richmond, if he has any left, that is

mm

 

[Al Crandall]

Mark was exacty right.

Burt, (sorry for the misspelling the first time) I don't want to take advantage of this board by turning it into my private informercial so soon after I got qualified to post here. Email to me your home address and I will send you our handout or I will send you an attachment with all pertinant info. Thanks for the interest you have shown. Ray is sort of the marketing manager of the three managing partners of the corp., so you might fire a missive (missle?) his way. Al

 

[Steve Worcester]

Burt, (sorry for the misspelling the first time) I don't want to take advantage of this board by turning it into my private informercial so soon after I got qualified to post here. Email to me your home address and I will send you our handout or I will send you an attachment with all pertinant info. Thanks for the interest you have shown. Ray is sort of the marketing manager of the three managing partners of the corp., so you might fire a missive (missle?) his way. Al

(For the sake of commercial post clarification)
Assuming that Burt and you are not in "cahoots" and baiting the readers, then all you are really doing is answering his (and others possibly) questions. Should you initiate the conversation, then it would be a violation in the spirit of the boards rules.

 

[Burt Alcantara]

Steve,
As far as being a shill, after starting this post and seeing all the information and pricing I've decided to drop the whole idea of hollow forms. I have a problem spending, what seems to be an escalating amount of money, on a negative process, i.e., removing waste.

This is getting to the point where I'm feeling more pain then pleasure. With that in mind, I'm going to put this on the back burner and continue with my adventures in box making.

I appreciate all of the good input provided by those who've participated in this thread and thank you all.

Burt

 

[KEW]

In that case, I will request Al post the information!
Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[john lucas]

Burt Don't give up on hollow forms just work your way up to them with basic tools. You can do an awful lot with John Jordan or David Ellsworth tool in a handle of some sort. You don't need an expensive captured bar system. I would just start with smaller hollow forms maybe 3" tall and then step up to larger as soon as you feel comfortable.

 

[Steve Worcester]

Burt Don't give up on hollow forms just work your way up to them with basic tools. You can do an awful lot with John Jordan or David Ellsworth tool in a handle of some sort. You don't need an expensive captured bar system. I would just start with smaller hollow forms maybe 3" tall and then step up to larger as soon as you feel comfortable.

No kidding. I spent more than the cost of this system on a class with David about 8 years ago.
All of this is an investment to shorten the learning curve. While this particular system may be too costly for you now, it should not extinguish the fire. You need to have that fire burning in your belly to continue to explore. There is always a means to the end. The Ellsworth tools are pretty inexpensive and by learning to hollow that way with it's learning curve, you will be well on your way. I don't consider anything a failure, but a learning experience.
FWIW, Ellsworth tools are how I entered into hollowing and have since gone on to other techniques just because they are faster.

 

[Al Crandall]

Kobra Hollowing Information

In that case, I will request Al post the information!
Inquiring minds want to know!

Ok guys, here is the scoop. We ned to know which brand of lathe you own and its swing so that the system will fit. The vertical mounting post for a 10" lathe will be too short for a 14" or 24" model. Also the bed gap varies from brand to brand so the locking plate under the bed will vary from unit to unit. Check out any ad for the Oneway Easy Core System locking plate for reference. Lathe beds are different widths from front to back so that variable has to be addressed too. Don't worry, we have it all under control.
By changing the length of the mounting post, we can fit the green unit on lathes up to 14" swing. The basic unit is priced at $399.95. It consists of the four joint articulating green Kobra Jr. with its mounting hardware and plates, and a tool rest to fit your banjo. The extra support leg of the tool rest sits on the top of the banjo and has adjustment built into it so that you can use different sized boring bars and still keep the cutter on the spindle centerline. The optional laser guide is $99.95. The Kobra and laser guide is what you get for $499.90. We will pay for the shipping for the total system. Custom 5/8" diameter boring bars are available for $4 per inch. We don't advise hollowing deeper than about 8" when using a 5/8" bar. We will fashion custom bar adapters to fit the 5/8" hole if you need them.

The basic red Kobra sells for $449.95 and includes the larger sized articulating tool with 24" of total travel, the mounting post of a length to fit your swing, all mounting plates and hardware to fit your particular lathe, and a goal post tool rest with adjustable leg to fit your banjo. The complete system includes the above, our laser guide sized for your lathe's swing, and a 1" x 17 1/2" long boring bar (needed to get 15 deep) for $659.85. Shipping is included in the package price. Custom size and length bars can be made for you and will be priced on an individual basis. Adapters to fit the bars you already own can be had for $27.95 each.

Thank you for this opportunity to tell you about the Kobra. I hope I have covered what you needed me to say, and we welcome the chance to get to know more of you in the future.

Al Crandall
Managing Partner
Indiana Innovators, Inc.

 

[hockenbery]

I saw the Cobra at the Florida Symposium.
I appears to be a superbly engineered piece of equipment.

I did not like its feel at all.
It may be one of those things you need to get used too, but I did not feel it was easy to control it sort of moves every which way.

I do a lot of my hollowing with Bosch bars and the Jamison handle and use Savoy and Stewart bars in the Jamieson handle. With the Jamieson bar I get a very positive response. I often lever against my left hand resting on the tool rest to hog out. This action has the pivot point at my left hand and I push forward on the handle with my right hand. all the work is done by the right shoulder.

Trying this with the Cobra the tool introduces a second pivot point.
That doesn't make it a bad system but one that doesn't react like a traditional turning tool.

For any one getting their first hollowing system. I would reccomend the Jamieson Handle and the Bosch bars or the Jordan bars. Make a back rest from wood and a laser system from boat railing fitting and some pipe. You can also make your own handle and bars.

Happy Turning,
Al