[B]That new Grizzly can be a real "bear"...to deal with?[/B]

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by jcooper, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. jcooper

    jcooper

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    That new Grizzly can be a real "bear"...to deal with?

    My fellow woodturners. As we aproach the end of February,we are reaching the 2 month mark since grizzly has released its 1642 EVS to the public seen here. http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0632
    Being this 2 month mark, has anyone turned on it, known someone that turned on it..or perhaps simply been turned off by it? At $1400 (after freight), its a little of a spend, especially after considering the price of a new Jet 1642 EVS being only marginally more (through Amazon), and how Grizzly has just so happend to match their appearance step for step after WMH Tool Group's bargain gem.
    I would like to open any thoughts you may have on this lathe. I'm not looking to buy one; I couldn't top what I have right now even if I asked the woodturning gods. But i would like to open up the floor to anybody who may have some insight, first hand experience, or food for thought.

    Happy Turning- Jon
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2007
  2. GeorgeH

    GeorgeH

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    Got a couple of issues with your post, Coop... :rolleyes:
    The model number you used for the Grizzly, "1642 EVS" is the Jet model number. The Grizzly is model "G0632". From the research I've done on these two lathes I am satisfied that they are comparable in price and features. Inasmuch as it is not uncommon for a manufacturer of tools and machinery to offer identical or virtually identical products to different marketing groups, I am not surprised that both of these lathes appear to originate within the same manufacturing family. I see no clear reason to describe the Grizzly lathe as a "bear" to deal with when compared to the Jet. I remain open to the persuasive opinions of those who might have experience with both of these machines, side by side, who have yet to comment on these points.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2007
  3. Dario

    Dario

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    First off I have no experience with both machine.

    However, the same marketing technique was used with Jet 1236 and HF "clone"...from what I read there were lots of complains with the HF clone.

    IF it is me...I won't gamble my $1,300.00 on the Grizzly lathe.

    Just my opinion.
     
  4. john lucas

    john lucas

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    Well they are known for Knockoffs. I have a Grizzly copy of of my Vicmarc chucks. It had to be copied you can even swap jaws and inserts. Of course Vicmarc now has a factory in China so I guess that's how that happens.
    It's not a bad chuck. The Vicmarc is definitly better but is twice as expensive.
    Most of the Grizzly tools I've worked on have been decent machines. Not as good as the brand names but usually worth the money you pay. That's not saying they don't have some good ones it just the ones I've used were mediocre.
     
  5. n7bsn

    n7bsn

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    Jon
    When last I was at the Grizzly show room, the lathe had not yet arrived. It was due ~15Feb.
    Now, Grizzly used to have a program where you could contact them for references to people that owned the product you were interested in. Do they still, I have no idea. But it was how I cross-checked the table-saw I bought.
     
  6. jcooper

    jcooper

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    Nuturner, i explained the grizzly as a "1642 EVS" predominantly because those are the dimensions of the lathe, and it has an electronic variable speed control. Explaining the lathe in this manner may "offend" some people, but i figured that outright saying the size of the lathe would be a favor to my fellow websurfers so they could know exactly what dimensions i was talking about. Second of all, I proposed that the grizzly lathe may be a "bear" to deal with because i was talking about a Grizzly and it's a type of bear. I didn't really look that deep into it to tell you the truth. I think there is a pretty standard consensus that Grizzly lathes are not the Cadillac of lathes anyway, so i didn't really expect much conflict to arise from such an assumption of sub-par quality. Sorry if i offended any Grizzly owners out there. Hey, at least it's not a Craftsman.

    -Jon
     
  7. jimbob91577

    jimbob91577

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    Grizzly Lathes

    I purchased the G0642 Lathe last year - basically the same lathe without the EVS but with a 2HP motor and Reeves drive. I haven't had a problem with it, not even a little problem with it. This is the lathe with the 600 RPM low speed. I just turned 2 - 13" plates/platters on it within the last 3 weeks (Russian Olive, softer wood). And yeah, they were spinning fairly fast on the outside, but it wasn't anything a "wise" turner couldn't overcome with proper tool placement and presentation. Considering I had only $500 to spend, I felt this was the best bang for the buck.

    I haven't added any weight to my lathe yet, and did have some vibration when rough turning the large platters, but I'm sure adding a couple hundred pounds to the lathe will solve this problem.

    I also own 2 of the $50 - 4 Jaw Chucks - I haven't had a problem with these either.

    I can't comment on any other Grizzly products except to say I have noticed several of their Dust Collection systems in use at various millwork/cabinet makers/woodshops in my area.

    When I contacted Grizzly early last year - they still had the "Go Visit This Person to test the tool out" program, however the closest person to me with that specific lathe was in Bellingham Washington, which is about 9 hours from where I live.

    My only affinity towards Grizzly is the cost of their products - If I could have purchased a comparible JET or a DELTA for the price I paid, I would have. I spent most of last year researching the tools in my price range, including shopping around all throughout northern california and southern oregon - no one I spoke with could match the price from the Grizzly catalog.

    I hope this helps...
     
  8. Dario

    Dario

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    Jimbo,

    I know what you mean but in this case, the lathe in question is just a few 100 bucks belowthe Jet 1642.

    My comment is basically saying that for a 15% or so savings, I won't gamble my $1,400.00 on it.

    BTW, Grizzly have awesome products, esp their bandsaw and I am looking forward buying one myself. Lathe mfg is not their strong suit though. Hope it changes more. Their introduction on the 1642 clone is a step towards the right direction but until proven (and at a better price)...I will continue to recommend the Jet.
     
  9. jcooper

    jcooper

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    I agree with you Dario, Grizzly has some good products (bandsaws, jointers, planers)...all good deals. lets hope they do something about their lathe's
     
  10. Jake Debski

    Jake Debski

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    Just as the dictates of the marketplace demanded Grizzly improve their quality control on it's early machinery(tablesaws, jointers, etc.) It will also do the same to it's newly minted lathe(s). It is up to the potential purchasers of the first off the line machines as to whether or not to gamble on Griz getting it right on their first go round. They(Griz) have the advantage of direct to buyer sales, no dealer network. That in itself should amount to the $100 +/- difference in price. If they skimped somewhere else I would expect even lower pricing.
     
  11. Steve Worcester

    Steve Worcester Admin Emeritus

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    I think you guys would be real surprised to find out how little money there is for the dealer in some of these machines. I have a freind who is a Jet dealer and most times, it is below his cost on Amazon. Throw in the free freight deal and he's under water.

    There is something to be said for the proverbial face to face a dealer offers.
     
  12. dkulze

    dkulze

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    I think you're gonna find that the "you get what you pay for" rule applies pretty accurately to Grizzly. Their products are priced excellently and all are functional but detail quality will vary widely from machine to machine at the lower prices.

    I have several turner friends who own or have owned Grizzly lathes from the inexpensive end of the spectrum. The general concensus is that it comes from the same factory as the Jets and Deltas but is a little lower on the quality control/tolerances/quality bits (bearings, motor housing, etc) side. Some of the lathes line up perfectly and work great (happy owners), some give chronic problems ("I'll never buy Grizzly again"). The extra money you spend on a Jet just makes sure you get the good performance and fit of all bits every time.

    If ya got's $500 and need the bigger lathe, go for a Grizzly. If ya got's the $500 and want the best lathe you can get, get a smaller lathe with less features from Jet. If you see the same lathe at roughly the same price from each, I'd personally tend towards the Jet, as I feel they have a higher bar for miminum quality expectations, hence the higher price at all levels.

    Dietrich
     
  13. Gordon Seto

    Gordon Seto

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    The profit margin on Rolex may be smaller than any less prestige "Swiss Made" watches.

    Gordon
     
  14. Not just quality, but fundamental design....

    It's not just the quality issue with respect to Grizzly lathes, but some fundamental errors in thinking by the company that concern me. For example, who was the rocket scientist that put a disk sander on the outboard side of some of their lathes? Certainly this "feature" wasn't designed by a woodturner, probably just someone who thought they could add another tool function inexpensively to this machine to try to make another selling point, without knowing what operations actually go on in woodturning. I consider this a MAJOR safety issue; what should be an outboard spindle or handwheel is actually a rotating abrasive that, given great care, would allow you to very rapidly trim the fingernails and skin (deliberately or not) on (or off of) your left hand! This is just plain wrong! A manufacturer who approves and sells such a grossly out of place design for their tools establishes in MY mind significant enough doubt that they actually know what they are doing with respect to producing and selling woodturning lathes! Only recently have they shifted from their 1-inch-12 tpi spindle size to more standard spindle sizes for which one can get aftermarket accessories. For the record I have had a Grizzly drill press for nearly 2 decades and it has performed well. I know others who have Grizzly dust collectors, table saws, and jointers. All perform well enough given the price. The big concern I have is their apparent disconnect between the lathes they "design" and produce (or of late, knock-off others' designs), and what actual woodturners value in terms of functional and safe features in the lathes they use. That alone would give me pause before I spent hard earned greenbacks on a Grizzly lathe.

    Rob Wallace
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2007
  15. KEW

    KEW

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    Rob,
    Your comments are spot on, but the lathe being discussed is, IMHO, the first Grizzly lathe to defy that trend. It is the same design as the JET 1642!
     
  16. Indeed......notice that it's not Grizzly designing the lathe, but Jet/Powermatic....a telling situation! There's a reason why the 1442/1642 design and the "Mustard" series are so successful.....Now it's Grizzly's turn to hone in on their proven designs..... Is the Stubby or Oneway next? Makes you think.....!?! Cheers, Rob
     
  17. jimbob91577

    jimbob91577

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    According to Amazon, a few hundred dollars is actually between $650 and $750 depending upon the rebate, which is about a 33-35% price difference. This includes shipping...

    In my case, the desire to purchase a full size lathe outweighed the desire to purchase a $500 3/4HP midi lathe with a bed extension by Jet or Delta. It was an enormous upgrade from the Shopfox 1/3 HP EVS Mini lathe I was working on (Note: I started with the Shopfox lathe as I didn't want to fork out a lot on a hobby that I had never done before). For what I wanted to do, a bigger swing and stronger motor was more important than length of the lathe, I couldn't find anything in my price range outside of the Grizzly that fit my requirements. I even looked for used lathes within 250 miles of where I live, figuring the money spent on Gas to haul it would offset any savings I would have received buying used. I even bid on a lathe that the school district was auctioning off, but lost that auction.

    I researched the product for the better part of the year on this message board and others, contacted the company, looked for product reviews, contacted magazines, etc - and finally purchased the lathe. I've had it for almost 5 months and am happy I bought it. I know it isn't the same model as was originally mentioned, but it has a lot of similarities.

    I'll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has them...
     
  18. Dario

    Dario

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    I did look and it is no longer on sale at Amazon now (just a rebate)

    Southern-tool does have the 1.5hp at $1,700 and the 2hp at $1,970.00 both delivered. I know I can find a better price too if I really have to.

    The 1.5 hp vs the $1,388.25 of Grizzly is a $311.75 difference or 22.45% more. I'll go with Jet anytime on that price difference.
     
  19. Jake Debski

    Jake Debski

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    Steve,

    I know how much a dealer makes on "name brand iron" that's why I pegged the price difference at $100 +/_. What I don't know is how much it cost for Jet to design, test, and produce that iron. I do know by copying a proven design and seller, Grizzly is getting a free ride on the backs of others. :( Everyone that paid the price for a name brand is in essence subsidizing the guys that are buying knock-offs. It is unfortunate, but that is the market today.
     
  20. dkulze

    dkulze

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    'S how it's always been and how it always will be, Jake. The good news is that it's the same process that drives innovation, since you always have to improve on what's now being coppied to merit the extra bucks.

    I can just picture some caveman with a knockoff axehead made of sandstone griping about how it won't hold an edge.

    "and it was such a good deal"

    Dietrich
     

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