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Beall Buffing System

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Was wondering what most people mount this too? The lathe, drill? Was told (but can't remember the reasoning) to not get the setup that has all 3 wheels on one bar that goes on the lathe. Thanks in advance
 

Mark Hepburn

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Was wondering what most people mount this too? The lathe, drill? Was told (but can't remember the reasoning) to not get the setup that has all 3 wheels on one bar that goes on the lathe. Thanks in advance

Scott, I have the three wheel and three ball type bowl buffs with a #2 morse taper mount. It's threaded on the end you attach the buffs to. It takes literally mere seconds to switch wheels, and I haven't felt the need to mount all three on a mandrel. In fact, one at a time gives you flexibility and ease of access you can't have if they're all mounted in,ESA you turn mostly small items. That's just my opinion but I do use the beall buffs for most projects (yeah, all twelve or so :D )

Almost forgot: I called their company number and ended up talking to the owner, who was very helpful. Nice people
 
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odie

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I made my own buffing stand from the old motor in my lathe, using the old lathe switches. This buffing station works great, but overpowered. It's a Leeson 1 1/2hp motor. I tried the Beale system on a 1/3hp motor, which was too small and kept bogging down. The ideal motor would probably be about 3/4hp to 1hp for the requirement of the Beale system.......

For sure, having more power than necessary is MUCH better than not enough power! :(

ooc
 

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Mark Hepburn

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I made my own buffing stand from the old motor in my lathe, using the old lathe switches. This buffing station works great, but overpowered. It's a Leeson 1 1/2hp motor. I tried the Beale system on a 1/3hp motor, which was too small and kept bogging down. The ideal motor would probably be about 3/4hp to 1hp for the requirement of the Beale system.......

For sure, having more power than necessary is MUCH better than not enough power! :(

ooc

Odie, what is the rpm of your setup, or is it variable speed?
 

odie

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Odie, what is the rpm of your setup, or is it variable speed?

Mark......motor plate says 1725rpm, which is about right. The old 1/3hp motor was the same speed range. Seems like I've heard from someone in the past who tried 3450, or there abouts, who thought that speed was too fast. I've never tried the beall system at that fast a speed, but I tend to think he's right. It's single speed, not variable. There may be some value to slower speeds, but I've never had problems with the 1725rpm doing a fine job on my bowls.

There has been several times during my "learning curve" where the buffing wheel grabbed and flung the bowl bouncing across the shop floor.....ruined them! One thing about having that much power, is it's very unforgiving if you present the bowl to the buff wrong. I guess this made me learn awfully fast how to do it right! Ha! :D

One thing I learned from someone else's suggestion, is to wear latex gloves while buffing. This gives you a much better grip on the bowl......just in case. I don't always wear the gloves these days, but often do......just as a extra measure of holding on to the bowl if I get careless about presentation.

ooc
 
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I bought the Don Pencil extension(12") when I got the beall system - it gets everything away from the headstock. Variable speed is nice to have while buffing.
 

Mark Hepburn

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I bought the Don Pencil extension(12") when I got the beall system - it gets everything away from the headstock. Variable speed is nice to have while buffing.

Jeff, where did you buy that extension? Does it replace the normal mandrel or does screw into it?
 
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Jeff, where did you buy that extension? Does it replace the normal mandrel or does screw into it?

Mark - I got it at Woodcraft. I had my doubts about going to 12" - seemed a little long, but it's a solid piece, well machined, and runs perfectly true. No problems and plenty of room to work. The buffs just screw into the end.
 

odie

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Not sure about the 12" extension, but I personally use the 8" extension
screws right on to the lathe spindle, accepts both balls and wheels,
keeping away from the head stock a definite plus, have buffed out 18" platters with no issues regarding space......

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/3/-/8/39/-/4477/Hold-Fast-Long-Buffing-Adapter

I've got the motor mandrel adaptor and extension from Beall. This is 6 3/4" extension when used together.

After much use, I find that I mostly use the mandrel adaptor only, for about 4" extension. By changing from 4" to 8" buffs, and developing technique, there really is little that can't be accomplished satisfactorily with these options. Others who do different shape turnings, may have a different point of view about this.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind having a longer extension, but in order for it to be useful for my requirements, it would have to be adaptable to the original Beall mandrel.

Anyone know if such a critter is available?

ooc
 

odie

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Additional comment:

One thing I've noticed is the further away the buff is from the motor, the more tendency to be "bouncy" it gets, and the less buffing force can be applied. This seems to apply more to the wheel type buffs, than the small round buffs. From my point of view, the shortest extension that can be used, will be the one that is the most effective. For sure, there are some turnings where a long reach is the only way to do it, so having the extra reach is a benefit, but you do have to give something to get something.

The best solution would be to have quick change options, so that one can adapt to the necessity of the moment. For my kind of turnings, the short extension from the Beall company is all I need, but others who do very deep vessels, or hollow forms, will have no other option than to have a long extension.

ooc
 
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hmmm I don't seem to have that issue Odie
with the 8" extension (I use almost all the time) with either wheels or buff balls
It seems to run steady, and I can apply all the force/pressure I need to, and haven't felt any vibrations at all.
could be your buff mandrel a bit warped/bent ? :confused:
 

odie

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hmmm I don't seem to have that issue Odie
with the 8" extension (I use almost all the time) with either wheels or buff balls
It seems to run steady, and I can apply all the force/pressure I need to, and haven't felt any vibrations at all.
could be your buff mandrel a bit warped/bent ? :confused:

Could be my set-up, Jerry.....

The Beall mandrel and mandrel extension are both straight......however, since you appear to be using your headstock and I have a home made stand, there could be some stability, or flexing issues that come into play with my stand. It hasn't been a problem though, as long as I don't push too hard. That threshold isn't reached all that often, but does occasionally. I can apply quite a bit of pressure before the bouncing happens.....

It just occurred to me, that if I wanted further extension, I could purchase a second mandrel extension from Beall, but so far haven't needed more distance.

ooc
 
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I'm also considering the purchase of the Beall system and I'm convinced that I will purchase the wheels and bowl buffs. I would like input on the wheel size and bowl buff size that would be most appropriate---- I turn mostly small to medium sized bowls. Experienced input would be greatly appreciated.
 

Mark Hepburn

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I'm also considering the purchase of the Beall system and I'm convinced that I will purchase the wheels and bowl buffs. I would like input on the wheel size and bowl buff size that would be most appropriate---- I turn mostly small to medium sized bowls. Experienced input would be greatly appreciated.

Tim, if you're ok with inexperienced input....:)

I use the buff wheels and bowl buffs with the short mandrel. Gonna buy the long one soon. Anyway, the wheels are 8" and the bowl buffs are about 3". I posted a pic below.

The largest bowl I've turned is 13" diameter but I've turned several smaller ones and had no issues. Also a few tool handles. I really like the system and suggest getting both sets. Results are great.

image.jpg
 
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Thanks Mark----I've been a woodworker for many years, however I've only been turning for about 6 months. I'm hooked----I've turned about 50 bowls in that time. What speed do you buff at with the wheels and the bowl buffs?
 
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I noticed your buffs are exposed to all of the wood dust in your shop. When I bought my Beal buffs 6 years ago, I was advised to keep them in a plastic bag when not in use. This prevents contamination. Still using and have yet to clean or replace. Any other users ?
 

odie

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I'm also considering the purchase of the Beall system and I'm convinced that I will purchase the wheels and bowl buffs. I would like input on the wheel size and bowl buff size that would be most appropriate---- I turn mostly small to medium sized bowls. Experienced input would be greatly appreciated.

Even on small bowls, the 8" wheels work well on exterior work, and many times the 4" wheels are better for interiors where the larger wheels won't fit. I mainly use the largest wheel that will work.

My finding is the wheels do a better job than the stiffer "ball" buffs, but I couldn't do without all the sizes and types of Beall buffs......I use all of them.

Since I've concluded that the wheels do produce the best finish, on interiors, there is a problem with the center bolt scratching the bowl when doing the sides of inward slanting walls. I've ground off the cap screws to very short, and polished them. Still have to watch what I'm doing here, but the modification of the screws have made things much better.....

ooc
 
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depends on what's being buffed
on my 12" - 18" bowls/platters I use the 8" wheels
smaller pieces get the 4" wheels
but I also keep 3" & 4" balls in stock for problem pieces where the wheels don't have access to all areas.

If you plan on using an additional 4th process with Renaissance Wax, get a separate wheel/ball for that also,
Do Not try to use the same wheel for Carnuba and Renaissance Wax as you'll muck it up for the Carnuba .............
All buffing done anywhere between 1500 - 2200 RPM with minor resistance/pressure on the piece being buffed.

Like Odie, I find the wheels do a better job that the balls
and also agree, when not in use, keep in a sealed plastic bag (I use ziplock gallon sized bags)
 

Mark Hepburn

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Thanks Mark----I've been a woodworker for many years, however I've only been turning for about 6 months. I'm hooked----I've turned about 50 bowls in that time. What speed do you buff at with the wheels and the bowl buffs?

Tim, they recommend 1725 rpm for the wheels and higher for the bowl buffs. I go about the same for either and am pleased.

Fifty bowls is more than twice my output so far. Life seems to just keep getting in the way of more important stuff (turning that is:D)
 
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Mark Hepburn

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I noticed your buffs are exposed to all of the wood dust in your shop. When I bought my Beal buffs 6 years ago, I was advised to keep them in a plastic bag when not in use. This prevents contamination. Still using and have yet to clean or replace. Any other users ?

Thanks Dwight. They're each in a bag now as you suggest. Never would have thought of it. Great idea.
 

Mark Hepburn

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Thank you everyone----very helpful! Mark-- after 20 years of being a high school administrator---- it's therapeutic :).

I think I'd probably use a gouge on myself (or some recalcitrant kid) if I was a school administrator for that long! I have some good friends in that profession and although they love it, they tell me it is high stress and I believe it. I agree about it being therapeutic. Wish I had started many years ago.
 

odie

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If you plan on using an additional 4th process with Renaissance Wax, get a separate wheel/ball for that also,
Do Not try to use the same wheel for Carnuba and Renaissance Wax as you'll muck it up for the Carnuba .............
All buffing done anywhere between 1500 - 2200 RPM with minor resistance/pressure on the piece being buffed.

I have no experience with the Renaissance Wax, but I have been experimenting with using Carnauba and Black Bison waxes with the Beall buffs lately. So far, I haven't noticed any bad effects from using both waxes together. Jerry, what is it specifically that prevents you from using the Renaissance and Carnauba waxes together?

For the Black Bison wax, I've been applying it with a small paint brush. The bristles have been shortened some so that they are a bit stiffer. Both waxes have been applied at the same time, and directly to the Beall wheels and round buffs.

One thing that does seem to help, is to use all of the compounds and waxes sparingly. When the compounds are allowed to build up, the results don't seem to be as good as using a thin application that is frequently applied.

ooc
 
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Can you please expand on the difference between the carnauba wax and the renaissance wax? Sheen, food safe, purpose, feel, etc.?

Tim,
The Carnuba Wax is touted to be the hardest wax known to man (not My words), and Is food safe
I use it as the 3 step process of the Beall system (just like when sanding, you go thru all the grits, not skipping any in succession)
but with constant handling of the piece, it leaves fingerprints/marks/smudges (as if it's a soft wax) .......

The Renaissance Wax as a final coat (I use 2 coats, apply coat/let dry/lightly buff - apply 2nd coat/let dry/lightly buff),
which is also touted as being food safe, seems to withstand constant handling without leaving marks/smudges.
And, IMHO, it leaves a glossier/cleaner/ and harder sheen on the piece when lightly buffed ( I use high speed, around 2200 RPM)

I'm no chemist so cannot attest to what is advertised as being accurate, but I get good results from the way I'm doing things
plus, I've had no complaints, and nothing but compliments from people who've bought bowls/platters finished this way
so ........ if it ain't broke, don't fix it :rolleyes:
 
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Jerry, what is it specifically that prevents you from using the Renaissance and Carnauba waxes together?

Odie, I tried using the same wheel once, apply and buff the carnuba, then buff the renaissance with same wheel
the next piece I went to buff with the Carnuba and with the Renaissance residue on the wheel,
it streaked really badly, didn't seem to cover as well, and didn't seem to apply or dry the same.
Once I went to using different wheels, everything went back to normal re: application, sheen, drying,feel, etc.

Might just be me, but I noticed a difference both before and after, and prefer the final finish of the "after" ;)
 

odie

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Odie, I tried using the same wheel once, apply and buff the carnuba, then buff the renaissance with same wheel
the next piece I went to buff with the Carnuba and with the Renaissance residue on the wheel,
it streaked really badly, didn't seem to cover as well, and didn't seem to apply or dry the same.
Once I went to using different wheels, everything went back to normal re: application, sheen, drying,feel, etc.

Might just be me, but I noticed a difference both before and after, and prefer the final finish of the "after" ;)

If I understand correctly, your findings aren't that the two waxes can be applied to the wheel, as I thought you meant.......but, that streaking occurred on the wood itself.

It could be there is a chemical compatibility issue, or otherwise resistance in the Renaissance and Carnauba waxes to combine, while the Black Bison and Carnauba may not.......?

Your observation, and your experience with this will serve to make myself and others a bit more vigilant to this possibility......thanks.

ooc
 
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If I understand correctly, your findings aren't that the two waxes can be applied to the wheel, as I thought you meant.......but, that streaking occurred on the wood itself.

It could be there is a chemical compatibility issue, or otherwise resistance in the Renaissance and Carnauba waxes to combine, while the Black Bison and Carnauba may not.......?

Yessir, streaking on the wood itself, and was a PITA to remove and start over again
at 1st I thought it was the wood, but I had an 18" x 60" kiln dried curly maple, so both pieces came out of same blank.
I have a feeling it's a resistance to combine, since I have no issues what-so-ever using the Renaissance afterwards with the desired effect.

Am curious about your using the Bison in combination with the Carnuba ....
What kind of finish is it giving you? , hardness/sheen/non-smudging? etc etc
and, you apply the Bison to the wheel itself (before or after running the carnuba across the wheel?), or to the piece ?
Also, does the Black Bison affect the wood's coloring at all?

am always open to alternatives and different processes
versatility on different pieces ;)
 

odie

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Am curious about your using the Bison in combination with the Carnuba ....
What kind of finish is it giving you? , hardness/sheen/non-smudging? etc etc
and, you apply the Bison to the wheel itself (before or after running the carnuba across the wheel?), or to the piece ?
Also, does the Black Bison affect the wood's coloring at all?

This can of Black Bison I have is what I was using prior to discovering the Beall system around 2005, or so. When used in conjunction with the Carnauba, I'm not seeing much, if any difference in how the waxed surface looks. I do suspect the combination isn't quite as durable as the Carnauba alone is. It is durable enough for marketability, where the bowls aren't handled very much prior to a sale......online sales, art galleries, etc. It's been a number of years since I've done a crafts show, where people are constantly handling your turnings, and for this purpose, I suspect that it would probably be best to go back to Carnauba only, because it might be a little more durable.

Originally, I tried a combination of Black Bison and Carnauba, just to see what would happen. I haven't seen an improvement.....but, the main reason I've continued to use it, is it's much easier to quickly apply a little Black Bison with the brush, than the hard Carnauba blocks. I haven't been too concerned about which wax is applied first, but I've been applying both at the start of waxing a bowl, and adding both as I feel it's needed. I believe using all waxes sparingly is key to the success of the Beall buffing wheels.

I have not noticed the Black Bison wax discoloring the wood, or any wood that I've tried since adding it back in my lineup Fall/2013. The wax itself has a yellowish tint to it, and this can is probably about 15 years old. It's almost gone. I have no special loyalty to the Black Bison wax, and there are likely to be other good paste waxes that will be just as easy to apply. At this point, I'm planning to continue applying the two waxes, but may try another brand when this can runs out in a year, or two.....(Paste wax for bowls will last a long time, if not overzealous in applying it.)

ooc
 
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Thank you so much for all of the great input! I have found this to be an excellent resource, with so many knowledgable people willing to help a "newbie". I admire your work and appreciate your insight.
 
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