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Bevel on tool

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i have a question on size of bevel on tool. Today i was making some bowls. I noticed that my spindle gouge with a double bevel( a small one making up the cutting edge and then a back bevel which does not contact wood) cut so much easier than my gouges which has a bevel of about 1/4 inch the whole tool. Should i be putting a secondary bevel on all my tools so there is less metal rubbing wood during bevel contact? Does that make sense? It just seemed that i had so much more control and easier cut when there was less bevel. I am new to turning.
 

hockenbery

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My spindle gouges have 30 degree bevel and my bowl gouge has a 60 degree bevel on the nose.
The spindle gouge is sharper.

Some people don't put a secondary bevels on any of their tools
Some put seconday bevels on every gouge
Some use a secondary bevel part of the time.


I grind the heel off the bowl gouge for use in hollowing bowls or for other cove cuts.
This secondary bevel shortens the bevel that contacts the wood which reduces bevel drag making the tool cut better because less bevel contact make less vibration. The secondary bevel is a good choice for concave curves.

On a convex curve the bevel contact is the same for both types of bevels.

On flats the long bevel gives more control. The short bevel less drag.

The Michelson grind has a convex bevel so it is all micro bevel. I keep one gouge with this grind for finishing cuts in tight places.
 
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Glenn, To add to what Al said, which is all very true... I'm a full convert to secondary bevels, and to tertiary bevels on steeper grinds. That puts me in the minority, but it pretty much comes down to what works for you. I have used the Michaelson school of grinds for nearly two years.

I haven't had a serious catch in at least 2 or 300 bowls, and it's not because I'm a talented turner (which I'm not) it's all because there is just less to catch, because many catches happen when the bevel hits and then the cutting edge hits. With such a short bevel it becomes hard to catch.

Another fine reason for secondary/tertiary bevels is because you can grind your primary working bevel at a much higher grit. I'm obsessive, so I grind all but my roughing gouges at 400 and 800. I grind secondary bevels at 80 every 5 or so sharpenings which makes the primary bevel fast to sharpen. I also think I get longer out of gouge than many because I sharpen at such a fine grit.

The final big standout for me is that with steeper angles (I'm partial to 50° for most turning) less bevel means tighter radiuses in the inside of bowls. The control is greater and you can start into a cut easier and exit a cut easier.

For BOB (bottom of bowl) gouges I like a 70-80° angle but I still put a secondary and often a tertiary bevel. If it's a traditional strait up grind like most BOB gouges, it can be really catchy and to a certain extent the shorter primary bevel reduces that. On the other hand, you can cut a bit higher on that strait up grind for a cleaner cut, which increases the chance of a catch, especially right at the center nib.

I can't really explain why, but I never liked a relieved Ellsworth Grind. It might just be habit, because I turned for a year or so and really worked on learning David's grind. Today I rarely ever turn with a 60° angle as it just isn't acute enough for the softer and more difficult woods I turn—which almost no else bothers to turn.

Again: you just have to try what feels right, keep at it, and check in with more experienced turners for some mentoring now and then.
 
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I use Hannes' Vector Grind Fixture for almost all my gouges. The triple bevel is very helpful in not getting catches. It works and it works well!
 
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On a convex shape, like most of the outside of a bowl, the bevel angle and how much you 'relieve' makes pretty much no difference. The tools are easier to control in a bevel rubbing cut when the rubbing spot is as close to the cutting edge as possible. On the concave surfaces, if you leave all of the bevel on, then this rub spot is farther away from the cutting edge. I just round mine over by hand, but then I do grind by hand only, and don't use jigs...

robo hippy
 

john lucas

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I've been using the short main bevel for years and love it. Just for the learning experience I ground a new gouge with a long bevel with just a little bit of the bottom ground off to prevent those burnishing rings. It's been fun swapping back and forth between the two on consecutive cuts to really learn the difference. On the inside of a bowl the short bevel really makes it easier I think. On the outside it seems to make more difference in the final cuts. I find I can "feel" the cut better and not force the tool which gives me less tearout. For Roughing I don't notice a lot of difference although there is a very noticeable difference in the sound coming off each tool. Don't know what that's telling me but it is noticeable.
 
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