Chucking small-diameter stock

[Jamie Straw]

I have a Oneway Talon chuck, and the jaws I bought to hold smallish diameter stock are their tall "spigot" jaws. I understand the need to have a firm grip on the stock, but when I'm turning something only 2" or 2.25" tall, seems like a waste to use such tall jaws and waste maybe an inch of wood. What would you suggest for options?

 

[hockenbery]

I have a Oneway Talon chuck, and the jaws I bought to hold smallish diameter stock are their tall "spigot" jaws. I understand the need to have a firm grip on the stock, but when I'm turning something only 2" or 2.25" tall, seems like a waste to use such tall jaws and waste maybe an inch of wood. What would you suggest for options?

The longer the spigot the better the hold. But you don't need much to hold a small spindle.

I have done hundreds of ornament finials about 7" long with a 1/2" tenon in the spigot jaws for hollow ball ornaments.
These start out about 1 1/4 " diameter.
When I finish the finial I loosen the chuck and hold it by the last 1/4" of the tenon and part through the tenon so about an 1/8" is left to glue into the ball
They never pull out of the chuck.

A 1/4" long tenon would probably work for most small pieces.

As long as there is a shoulder on the top of the jaws then will hold well.

Al

 

[john lucas]

You don't need to chuck the full depth of the jaws. I turn everything down to what I call Nano goblets and chucking really small things gets interesting. I have Vicmarc chucks and a set of their old long jaws which unfortunately they don't make anymore. They are much more rigid than the Oneway jaws. The new ones have a square opening instead of round which I find strange but may have to get a set some day to see how they work. The older jaws closed down to 3/8". For work smaller than that I have a 3/8" drill chuck that has a hex shank so I just chuck that up in the Vicmarc chuck.
They also make #2 morse taper collets that will hold pieces down to 1/16". You have to make a draw bar to hold them in place and draw the jaws closed. The wood also has to be pretty accurately sized to fit them because they only have about .010 to .020 tolerance for the size that will fit.
Like Al when turn my Christmas ornaments I chuck up about 1 1 /2" because I use what's in the jaws for the top finial for my ornaments. I also use the tailstock at first to reduce the chatter when I rough out the finial. I leave as much of the finial full size and turn it down in sections. That last thing to turn is the 3/8" tenon for the top. I cut this off and then loosen the chuck and pull out a little of what's left and turn a 3/8" tenon on it with a good shoulder. Then I reverse this in the chuck and turn the top.
If I'm going to turn just the finial I mount it between centers and turn large tenon with good shoulders. Then I mount this in the chuck and turn the finial. The shoulders reduces the chatter considerably. Anyone who has turned long thin things in a chuck holding just one end knows how easy it is to get chatter from a tool. You learn to support the backside with your fingers and how to apply a little pressure from the bevel as you can.

 

[Michael Mendelsohn]

I find collets the best way to hold small objects. I use the low cost knock-off of the Beall Collet (PSI) chucks that have 5 collets ranging from 1/8 to 5/8 inch. These hold quite well with less than 1/4" to grip as long as there is a small shoulder. Collets in the #2 morse taper are also available, but they only range up to 1/2"

 

[Jamie Straw]

Thanks to all...

Thanks Al, John and Michael, those responses really help. I'll take a look at the options mentioned. The smallest I've needed so far is 1.5" but I'm sure that will change. The challenge to using only the upper part of tall spigot jaws is having the item perfectly positioned (parallel to the jaws. I tried it yesterday, got it done pretty much, but a mm out of square on the lathe can produce a funny stopper when the stopper is 2"+ tall.

 

[hockenbery]

Thanks Al, John and Michael, those responses really help. I'll take a look at the options mentioned. The smallest I've needed so far is 1.5" but I'm sure that will change. The challenge to using only the upper part of tall spigot jaws is having the item perfectly positioned (parallel to the jaws. I tried it yesterday, got it done pretty much, but a mm out of square on the lathe can produce a funny stopper when the stopper is 2"+ tall.

I often use the tail center to align spindles in the chuck.

I stared the spindles with a cup center drive. Turn the tenon at the tailstock side usually with peeling cut with a skew.
The point from the drive center can be used with the point of the tail,center to get the alignment when in the chuck.

 

[Hu Lowery]

bushings work well

I turn bushings from plastic or end grain wood to hold smaller stuff. I cut a fairly narrow slot in the bushing to let it squeeze up on what I need to hold. Sometimes only a saw kerf, sometimes a little bigger. All of my bushings get thrown in a junk drawer when I am done with them and an assortment of bushings builds up over time. Some have a shoulder to seat against the front of the jaws, some don't. Mostly depends on intended use and how long I spend making them. My number two jaws fit anything down to somewhere under a half inch when they need to by using a bushing and I have a half inch drill chuck mounted on a #2 morse taper. Comes in handy to drill holes and to hold small stuff as others have mentioned. No drill press at the moment so my lathe is often my drill of choice.

Hu

 

[Owen Lowe]

I find collets the best way to hold small objects. I use the low cost knock-off of the Beall Collet (PSI) chucks that have 5 collets ranging from 1/8 to 5/8 inch. These hold quite well with less than 1/4" to grip as long as there is a small shoulder. Collets in the #2 morse taper are also available, but they only range up to 1/2"

And collets generally have a much better centering success rate when it comes to removing a piece from the collet and replacing it. Machinists greatly prefer collets to chucks when given the choice.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Learning bushings...

I turn bushings from plastic or end grain wood to hold smaller stuff. I cut a fairly narrow slot in the bushing to let it squeeze up on what I need to hold. Sometimes only a saw kerf, sometimes a little bigger. All of my bushings get thrown in a junk drawer when I am done with them and an assortment of bushings builds up over time. Some have a shoulder to seat against the front of the jaws, some don't. Mostly depends on intended use and how long I spend making them. My number two jaws fit anything down to somewhere under a half inch when they need to by using a bushing and I have a half inch drill chuck mounted on a #2 morse taper. Comes in handy to drill holes and to hold small stuff as others have mentioned. No drill press at the moment so my lathe is often my drill of choice.

Hu

Would love to make my own bushings. I'll read up on making wooden bushings. Re: the mounted drill chuck, I'm noticing that mine has just a little play in it. It's not the Morse taper that has the slight jiggle, it's the chuck. Not sure how important it is that it be rock solid.

 

[Jamie Straw]

And collets generally have a much better centering success rate when it comes to removing a piece from the collet and replacing it. Machinists greatly prefer collets to chucks when given the choice.

Centering success would be a good thing. The chuck seems overly bulky for the spindle turning I'm doing right now. Bowls were a different story of course, and they're coming around again soon I hope. I'll check out the PSI's that Michael mentioned.

 

[Jamie Straw]

I often use the tail center to align spindles in the chuck.

I stared the spindles with a cup center drive. Turn the tenon at the tailstock side usually with peeling cut with a skew.
The point from the drive center can be used with the point of the tail,center to get the alignment when in the chuck.

I need to get a cup center drive. Only have a 4-spur with retracting (spring-loaded) center point. Haven't reviewed the options for head- and tail-stock.

 

[hockenbery]

I need to get a cup center drive. Only have a 4-spur with retracting (spring-loaded) center point. Haven't reviewed the options for head- and tail-stock.

Need ? Probably not unless you get into multi center turning,where a cup drive is highly desirable.

Since I have cup drives I use them on all spindles under three inches and for short spindles up to a about 8" diameter.
A cup won't drive a heavy spindle well

I like them for whole bunch of reasons.
They mount on the blank with just tail stock pressure ( quicker than hitting a spur with a mallet or making bandsaw kerfs in the end of the spindle)
They recenter extremely well if you take a blank off the lathe
I can flip a spindle end to end and it centers extremely well.
They hold multi center turnings well and don't chip the corners.
A small one I use lets me screw a chuck on over it.
If I want to twist a spindle to align a grain feature with my index wheel I can just loosen the tail stock a tiny bit and turn the spindle.

Steb drives work almost as well. Except they don't let you spin the turning to line up the grain for a multi center layout.

Al

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

I have a steb drive that I use a good bit and like a lot. It's very forgiving for us learners. Craft Supplies has an affordable one.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Yes, for 4 of 6 reasons...

Need ? Probably not unless you get into multi center turning,where a cup drive is highly desirable.

Since I have cup drives I use them on all spindles under three inches and for short spindles up to a about 8" diameter.
A cup won't drive a heavy spindle well

I like them for whole bunch of reasons.
They mount on the blank with just tail stock pressure ( quicker than hitting a spur with a mallet or making bandsaw kerfs in the end of the spindle)
They recenter extremely well if you take a blank off the lathe
I can flip a spindle end to end and it centers extremely well.
They hold multi center turnings well and don't chip the corners.
A small one I use lets me screw a chuck on over it.
If I want to twist a spindle to align a grain feature with my index wheel I can just loosen the tail stock a tiny bit and turn the spindle.

Steb drives work almost as well. Except they don't let you spin the turning to line up the grain for a multi center layout.

Al

Well, 4 of those are good reasons for me to add one methinks. All relate to my current focus on stoppers.

• Although I rarely cut kerfs or bang with a mallet, I do want to be able to hold stock with just mild tail stock pressure. I've made a little wooden "cup" to put over point in tailstock, it bears on the cup behind the point and spins, but doesn't mar the tail-end of the stock.
• Definitely need to recenter after taking blank off lathe.
• I really need to be able to flip spindle and keep centered!
• Would love the option
• to install a chuck over the center.

I'm long-past buying stuff just for the fun of it, but this sounds like something worth adding to the list, thanks!

 

[Jamie Straw]

I have a steb drive that I use a good bit and like a lot. It's very forgiving for us learners. Craft Supplies has an affordable one.

I'll check that out. Don't have too many catches now, but not really pushing the envelope either.

 

[hockenbery]

Cup centers respond to a catches quite well. They let the wood stop and stay centered. Tighten the tail stock an proceed.
A steb center I'd basically a cup center that has indentations on the cup whose purpose is to resist spinning.
When you get a catch with the steb it spins making a groove the width of the indents.

If either center spins just tighten the tailstock and they drive again. On the same center.

Lots of folks like stebs. There are stebs that fit in chucks and stebs on live centers.
Flipping end for end you might want steps on both ends for better centering.

My wife uses stebs and does not use cups.
I use cups and do not use stebs

You can get spring loaded stebs an spring loaded cup center when the points retract when the centers are seated.
This can make alignment easier. Especially for more experienced(older) eyes.

Stebs drive a little better than cups,
Cups recenter a tiny bit better than stebs
And cups allow you to line up the grain better for a layout although a spring loaded steb should let you do almost as well.

Bless Steve Jobs soul, but he tried to turn every "steb" into "step". I think I got them all.

 

[john lucas]

I like Steb centers for larger work but for smaller diameter work the spring in the center pin actually increases the chatter that I always have to fight on long thin spindles. I have a 1/2" diameter steb center that never gets used anymore.

 

[hockenbery]

I like Steb centers for larger work but for smaller diameter work the spring in the center pin actually increases the chatter that I always have to fight on long thin spindles. I have a 1/2" diameter steb center that never gets used anymore.

On some of the spring loaded ones you can lock the pin in the compressed position by tightening a set screw that goes into a slot on the pin.

Al

 

[Jamie Straw]

Mr. Jobs

[snip]
A steb center I'd basically a cup center that has indentations on the cup whose purpose is to resist spinning.
When you get a catch with the steb it spins making a groove the width of the indents.

[Snip]
Bless Steve Jobs soul, but he tried to turn every "steb" into "step". I think I got them all.

The spring loaded 4-spur that I use does pretty much the same thing, but probably scars a more than a Steb would. Re: Mr. Jobs -- you can add any word to the dictionary. Auto-correct needs to be turned off, so you get the red underline under the word, then right-click and select "Add to dictionary."