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Design for Woodturning

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I am in the process of developing a Website which will focus on design for woodturning. I am trying to judge how much interest there would be. The site contents would be geared to the needs of beginning and intermediate woodturners. It would contain downloadable files in pdf format in a variety of subjects in design including conventional methods i.e. pencil and paper, computer software as an aid to design, theory, practical methods for recording and expanding ideas etc. It is intended that all the material will be free. Including access to free software where appropriate. I would be grateful for any response - postive or negative, to this idea. I am applying for sponsorship/funding to get this started so your feedback is important. I don't know of any other site that specialises in this area, if you know different please let me know.
 
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Phil,

I, too, think this is a great idea and, no, I'm not aware of any other site dealing with such matters. It would be of real value to me and, I suspect, many others. I don't think the ability to post designs on the site would be necessary (nice, but not necessary) as there are number of other sites where this can be done, including this one.

Whit
 
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Outstanding Idea, and OVERDUE :D

I'd suggest that you be prepared to divide the site into sections for different aspects like form/shape as opposed to segmented/construction stuff to (maybe) tool-making.

Mark Mandell
 

john lucas

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Phill
Interesting. I would probably be there. I'd like to see sections all types of turning. Spindles, Goblets and even discussions on designs that relate to carving or adding other materials to turned.
 
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I would put in a word of caution, that this not become a "how I did it" site or another WOW-type of site or even a rival to the AAW Photo Gallery. Once you start soliciting contributions from everybody, you will get Huge Grief from those who don't get "picked" for inclusion or their sage words of wisdom published for the benefit of lesser lights.

I'd also suggest you stay away from the forum format. On-line critique is still in its infancy, and if you throw your site open to all, you'll soon be spending your days with the delete key. You'll also find it amazing how possessive people can become over something they don't own.

I can also anticipate that a multi-faceted site could well and quickly outstrip a single person's ability to maintain it in both time and costs, even WITH sponsors. I'd therefore suggest that you start with addressing basic design issues, say for faceplate stuff and spindle-work, and look for expert help, even paid staff, to assist.

Expand into other areas only after getting the basics down fairly cold.

"Course that's just MY opinion, Your mileage may vary :D


Mark
 
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I hope I'm not throwing a wet blanket on what could be a good idea but how would all of you feel if you saw your design being sold by someone else? Or would the site be "here is my design but don't copy it."

Mike
 
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"Imitation is the finest form af flattery." Don't know who said it, but it's true. A copyist never gets it quite the same. I occassionly will attempt to "reproduce" something I've seen another turner do just to see if I can do it. If it doesn't work, why not? If it does, attribute it to the originator. And then, there are theme and variations.

Whit
 
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With literally thousands of years and billions of pottery items produced by Humans, I seriously doubt that any bowl or jar shape or form that any of us can do has not been done before, probably several thousand times. Artists have been ripping each other off, or at least copying, modifying, bastardizing, reinterpreting, rediscovering, or regurgitating the work of others, whether contemporaries or ancestors, for all of those thousands of years.

You think you're going to stop all that with your particular masterpiece?

Really?

You also into South-Central Florida real estate, by any chance? How 'bout some nifty gilt-edged, surface drainage and redevelopment bonds to go with that Scenic Everglades Homestead?

Relax. ;)

Enjoy the craft! :D
 
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Before this thread loses its original theme I would like to clarify what the site would really be about. It would not be a forum to post designs or offer specific design solutions. The intention is to provide tutorials on the design process, methods and alternatives. It would be there to discourage copying and encourage original thinking. An education style site with serious articles on design. To include all the subjects that more commercially minded publications leave out of the agenda. It would hopefully have something for most turners to think about, challenge, have views on and create dialogue.
Progressive thinking and doing does not come from adapting or adopting someone else's style or method of working although we may use this as a starting point for reference or to encourage us to attempt something we haven't tried before. The hope is we all find our own way in time. In my opinion!
 
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Phil,

I applaude your idea, which is quite different from what I envisioned from your first post. I think that quality design education for turners is seriously lacking with most books and video's focusing on the "how to" and technical aspects.

I think a major challange will be distilling principals of design and form down to basic ideas that can be simply expressed. Once that's done, your challange will be to reconcile those principals with the very different concepts of "style."

I do have a feeling that what you are describing is a book rather than a web site. Concepts of good design can be viewed as static, basic principals, which, while being interpreted and reinterpreted by the many artists working, would not lend themselves to a dynamic medium like the Internet. I think you'd run a real risk, even with "guest contributors," of the site becoming inactive like the book that gets read and then put on the shelf for occasional reference.

I would certainly use it as a reference, but as a self-sustaining web enterprise, I think you'll have serious problems keeping it fresh and dynamic and preventing it's becoming a voice of convention and conformity.

Obviously, this is all just my opinion. Your mileage may vary. :)
 
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Thanks Mark. I'm still relatively new to turning so I bow to your superior knowlege.

I was just thinking of the few times I've been fortunate enough to talk to famous woodturners and they all seem to have a signature piece and some have even told me they do not want to see copies of their design being sold.

But if you say that will never happen that's good enough for me.

Mike
 
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Mike,

It's not something that's limited to turning; happens in every artform. Indeed artists used to be trained in technique by copying masters' work, and you may still see a painter set up inside of a European museum doing just that. I've known a few painters who could make you a dead nuts copy of a Rembrandt, De Vinci, Manet, or a half-dozen others. When I was teaching, a fair part of what my students did was study the work of others, not to copy, but rather to understand and begin the process of creative thinking. Invariably some of their work would resemble what they had seen and studied.

I appreciate every artist's desire to "protect" their ideas, and thus preserve the uniqueness of their contribution. I also acknowledge that even "known" professional artists can be a little insecure that someone will copy their piece(s) and 1) do it better than they, 2) use the pirated design to make money, or 3) both. This is not limited to the art world. Examples: Oneway screaming about JET "ripping off" their componant live center design and selling it for $20 less, and all the patent and copyright litigations in courts around the world.

My favorite story on the subject concerns Pablo Picasso. He used to drive art dealers crazy when they were trying to authenticate a painting as having been done by him. Part of the problem was that the man produced such a huge number of paintings and other items, and part was because his style was so easy to copy. As the story goes, when someone would bring in a piece for him to verify as his, he would chuckle (because neither he nor anyone else could remember all the stuff he did), and then seriously look at the piece for several minutes. Finally, if he liked it, he verified it as his work. If he didn't like it, he denounced it as a forgery and would point up its faults. It didn't matter whether he had actually done the piece or not!

Mike, I sincerely hope that you get to the point where others are copying your work. :D

Mark
 
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Copying

It is interesting to see the comments on copying. Historically it has always been a method of training in both art, craft and practical skills - learning the 'masters' techniques, a passing down of skills. I don't know too much about the current arguments in woodturning in the US but there seems to be parallels to those occuring in the UK about work being derivitive. It is interesting to note, however, that few copyists get recognition for their work other than at a local club level. Here, there seems to be a fascination with skills at the expense of content, too many woodturners producing work to impress or intimidate other woodturners and not enough emphasis placed on the needs, tastes or desires of the potential purchaser. I personally don't see the point of wooden stetsons or goblets with thin, 3ft stems but then perhaps it just a question of taste! I also don't see much point in producing tradtional items that don't fit with contemporary lifestyles. Nostalgia seems to rule! A sure way of killng off a craft is stay rooted in the past. The US seems to have more interesting approach to creative craft than the UK, maybe we can catch up.
 
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Thanks

The site would not be there for turners to submit their work for posting. It will be more about design technique, downloadable tutorials to assist those with limited design experience to develop their skills or to discover alternative methods.
Anyway thanks for the number of views on this posting, I have received a small start-up grant and the site will be proceeding. It may take a while to get on-line because of the volume of content to be prepared. A basic site will be on line shortly where it will be possible to register interest and receive mail.
 
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Copying

I think some of the comments here about copying have been very insightful. I recently purchased a book by Chris Stott, "Turned Boxes, 50 designs". At the end of his introduction is an excellent paragraph. I quote,
"When learning a new craft, it is the most natural thing in the world to copy existing items, and in my opinion there is nothing wrong in this. Artists have copied old masters for generations in order to understand their techniques. Eventually, though, there comes a time when you have to put something of yourself into your work and develop a style that is unique to you. I hope these designs will help to get you started on this path."

I have decided to make as many of these boxes as time permits, and vary the design as it suits me. At the end of this process I will know which boxes I like, which ones lend themselves to adaptation and which ones are "fixed". There is only one sphere, but how one embellishes it can be distinctive. Some designs have a name associated with them. Is the Ray Key capsule box really an original design of his that should not be made and sold by others? I truly don't know the answer to this. Anyone who has seen a capsule or a propane tank probably feels that no one owns that shape.

The idea of a design website is certainly fascinating. But the questions raised about copying are fair ones. If you go ahead with it, I urge you to set the boundaries/parameters at the beginning and let the viewers know what is fair and what is not. The issues raised by Mark are legitimate and well-stated. And hosting such a site might be a little like being in charge of a mud puddle. Do you REALLY have control? :D
 
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New Site

My new site is at its beginning stage and has an introductory page on-line where you can register your interest by mail. Search engines may not find it yet but the site address is www.woodturningdesign.info. Thanks for the feedback in these replies. It might be a while before it is fully functional, I have a considerable work load in preparing tutorials.
 
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