detail gouge problems

[ryan34]

I got the crown detail gouge awhile back and just started using it and I am having problems with catches. I am trying to form beads but the catches always happen I have tried changing the angle of approach and the height of the tool rest. I can't find any articles and need the help. Does anyone have any advice?

 

[John Nicholas]

Detail Gouge

You want to have the gouge engage the workpiece at center or slightly above.
Set you tool rest to accomplish that.

Get to know the tool. Start with some planing cuts, just move the gouge into the wood and then along the rest removing a thin layer of wood.

After you get a little more familiar with the tool, try the beads and coves and other types of cuts.

I've found that helps me with any new tool.

John

 

[dkulze]

When folks are having catches with a detail (spindle) gouge, it's usually due to not riding the bevel. It's very important, when making any cut, to have your bevel in contact with the wood then draw/rotate the tool to engage the edge. As you make the cut, always have the bevel in consistant contact with the wood. This sets the limit on what the tool is cutting. Without the bevel in contact, you're cutting freehand and you're gonna catch sooner or later.

Dietrich

P.S. (where is ya?)

 

[ryan34]

When folks are having catches with a detail (spindle) gouge, it's usually due to not riding the bevel. It's very important, when making any cut, to have your bevel in contact with the wood then draw/rotate the tool to engage the edge. As you make the cut, always have the bevel in consistant contact with the wood. This sets the limit on what the tool is cutting. Without the bevel in contact, you're cutting freehand and you're gonna catch sooner or later.

Dietrich

P.S. (where is ya?)

thanks for the advice once again. I guess its just practice and more and then more practice . I'm in Chicago. What about speed, what rpm should I be turning at.

 

[John Nicholas]

Rpm

What about speed, what rpm should I be turning at.

Ryan,

For a spindle try 500 - 1500. Stay below any vibration. You can go faster if you feel comfortable. Pen turners routinely go at 3000+.

John

 

[MichaelMouse]

You don't say what form the grind is, but one of the problems with cylindrical blanks for gouges is that the interior doesn't match the exterior contour. This can get you into a wedge situation, or if working a bowl, a heel bruise situation as you try to sweep inside. Best way to overcome on convex work is to make your entry sweep a down and forward, so the thinner material on the edges removes stock rapidly enough to keep your nose from wedging and ejecting or pushing thin stock away. Means engaging on the wing of a fingernail first and transitioning to the nose for depth as you get the room by advancing to the center of the gap between beads. Match the down arc to the curve of the grind.

Of course, this isn't the best tool for the job of beading, as you know. Have you tried some of the other regular solutions like your thick parting tool? If you're making beads far enough apart to accommodate the thickness of a detail gouge that'll work. Narrower gaps want a traditional beading tool, Bedan, or single-edge chisel.

EDIT - Speed is unimportant unless you get a catch. If your touch is light and your approach one of patience in letting the wood come to the edge and be cut, 500 on a mini is just fine.

 

[Claude]

Spindle gouges, when new, do not have an easy profile. I do recommend you transform it making it as an elsthworth nail gouge. You will see how fantastic you profile gouge is

 

[Keith T.]

Ryan, I agree with Claude...grind the wings way back. I use the detail gouge right on the centerline, flute facing away from the cut (tool on its side) To form a bead, allow the tip of the tool to create just the smallest groove in the wood; once you have the groove started, begin the cut, riding the bevel. Always work from large diameter to small. cut one side of the bead, then do the other side. The detail gouge will cut beads and coves with ease, I can e-mail you a page from a demo handout if you want that should help.

 

[ryan34]

Ryan, I agree with Claude...grind the wings way back. I use the detail gouge right on the centerline, flute facing away from the cut (tool on its side) To form a bead, allow the tip of the tool to create just the smallest groove in the wood; once you have the groove started, begin the cut, riding the bevel. Always work from large diameter to small. cut one side of the bead, then do the other side. The detail gouge will cut beads and coves with ease, I can e-mail you a page from a demo handout if you want that should help.

thanks that would help out alot. e-mail address is snatch63@sbcglobal.net

 

[Ken Grunke]

Ryan, here's a picture of Ellsworth's detail gouge, scroll down to the fourth one:
http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/grinds.shtml

 

[woodwish]

Ryan, here's a picture of Ellsworth's detail gouge, scroll down to the fourth one:
http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/grinds.shtml

Ken, I have been to that page before and finally printed out a lot of it. I keep the pages near my grinder when I am trying to sharpen. It's easy to look at the design I want as I sharpen. My turning has really improved since I have improved my sharpening. I know that is something experienced turners have said for years, and it is true. At first I was afraid to really sharpen the tools for fear that I would accidently change the shape, but with pictures from this page I have no fears of changing shapes on purpose. Good reference page for every turner!

 

[Jon Murphy]

detail gouge follow up

This is not directly related to this thread, but it is on topic. I grind my detail gouges (a 3/8 and a 1/2) with the rounded heel David E. recommends, but his bevel angle is very sharp. He is using it for bowl "cutoffs", etc., so the sharp angle is right for him.

For some silly reason I reground mine to a 40 dg. bevel a while back, don't remember what I was working on or why I did it, perhaps I was having catch problems. I had been using a 30 dg. bevel.

So my question is this, what is a good "all purpose" bevel angle for a detail gouge, allowing that I mainly do bowl and hollow forms - but some spindle work with deep coves. I have a couple of standard grind spindle gouges (45 dg. bevel) so don't need to compromise the detail gouges to do the work of a spindle gouge. My thought is that I should "round" the heel down by grinding to about a 20 dg. bevel, then smoothing the transition to the shaft. I could then grind a "hollow" bevel just at the cutting edge to some greater angle.

I may have answered my own question, but I'd be curious to see what you all think.

Best, Jon

 

[MichaelMouse]

Talk about thread resurrection! A "detail" gouge is just a shallow cylindrical. Since it can't be ground at a constant angle like a constant thickness gouge without leaving a big heel to get in the way, you have to live with it either of two ways. First, as you mentioned, grind the heel of a fingernailed pattern back out of the way for those times you're trying to roll around the nose. Second, grind a long edge and stand the tool up so you use the long grind either side of centerline.

I own one - recommended by "experts" to answer a problem I had not yet experienced - and it never did anything a standard cylindrical gouge with a third less thickness in front wouldn't. "Vibration" control versus thickness isn't a factor even if you use the tool with the flute perpendicular to the rotation rather than perpendicular to the rest. Just don't compound a poor angle with poor technique and try to hog.

I ground mine pointy, and it's a fine hollowing tool which is self-cleaning, even through holes even modestly larger than the diameter of the gouge. If you're cutting coves, either get a non-cylindrical or use one of the workarounds mentioned above. As always, longer bevels can be used at lower angles than shorter.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/a63b77ab.jpg

Working a goblet. Notice the shavings are broad - done by the side. Point is for plunging without risk of skating the nose.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/725a28f2.jpg

 

[odie]

One simple point to remember is to initiate the cut with the tip of the gouge perfectly vertical, or in alignment with the direction of the rotating surface. Once the cut has begun, then the gouge can be rotated to the desired position because the heel, or bevel has established it's authority in stabilizing the cutting edge.

It's pretty easy to test this. Try a cut with the edge not vertical, and it will tend to "skip" sideways. This doesn't mean the cut can't be started with the tip of the cutting edge not perfectly vertical, but it will require a firm grip of the tool to proceed to the point where the heel has established the stability of the cut.

ooc

 

[john lucas]

I have 2 tips for beginners. One is to sharpen it at about 40 or 45 degree bevel. These seem to be more forgiving. Then start the cut very very lightly. If it's not at the right angle it will skate but will do so gently and not tear up the wood. Once it starts to cut it will then have the bevel on the shoulder of the cut and won't kick back so you can push a little harder.

 

[odie]

Ryan, here's a picture of Ellsworth's detail gouge, scroll down to the fourth one:
http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/grinds.shtml

Thanks for the link, Ken.......

The traditional gouge grind made with the Wolverine V arm doesn't seem to be very popular anymore. (on the bottom in photo provided) I'm surprised it's not on that list at all! I do see one or two that are very blunted for use on bowl interior bottoms, but it seems to be pretty much gone from common use. Although I use nearly all the swept back grinds shown, the old standard straight grind is still used quite a bit.....it's such a versatile configuration.


Am I about the only one who still uses that grind?.......or, is this just one more example of a useful tool, aspect, procedure that seems to be left behind.....simply because the "herd" has gone the other way?

ooc

 

[Dale Miner]

I have a couple ground like the upper one, although maybe not quite as much swept back. They get used from time to time on the interior and occasionally on the exterior of bowls. The fingernail swept back grinds get most of the duty though.