Finish on the Lathe

[Dave Fritz]

Rather than hi-jack the final finish thread I'll start a new one with my question.

How much of the finish do you do on the lathe? If you do most of it on the lathe how do you blend the bottom, assuming your working while the piece is in the chuck?

Thanks,

Dave F.

 

[Donna Banfield]

Hi Dave

This is another one of those questions, the answer to which will vary depending on whom you ask. Here's what I do. None of the work that I produce is finished while still on the lathe. More than 50% of my work is utilitarian bowls.

After I'm done with sanding and finishing turning and sanding the bottom, the bowl is taken off the lathe and goes to my finish room. This is a separate room that is used for anything that doesn't raise dust. I use a woodburning pen to write information on the bottom of the bowl (name, date, etc), and then using a 3-part finish that I have pre-mixed, of Boiled Linseed Oil, Turpentine, and high quality varnish (like Fiddes or Behlens), I saturate the bowl and leave it for 30 minutes. The bowl is sitting on old bandsaw blades that I've cut into 12" long pieces, and bent them in the middle to form a V. This keeps the bowl up off the shelf, and allows the finish to dry without marring. After 30 minutes, I re-apply the finish to any dry areas, and then wipe it completely dry using several paper towels. Viva works quite well. I leave the bowl for 24 hours in this 'clean room'.

After 24 hours, I lightly scuff the bowl with 4/0 steel wool, used compressed air to blow the debris off, and return to the clean room and repeat the process. I will do this 3-6 times, depending on the wood, and how much finish it absorbs. The more coats that you apply, the higher 'sheen' you'll get. I allow the bowl finish to dry, or 'cure' for 30 days, and follow that by using the Beale Buffing system. Only then do the bowls go to the galleries, or the customers.

Seems like a lot of work, doesn't it? Here's why I go through all this trouble. I sell my work. My experience has been that finishes that are quick and easy to put on, last about that long. The last thing I want to hear from a customer walking into my booth is a complaint that the bowl they bought from me last year looks like crap. And this is overheard by all the customers who just walked out of my booth with their wallets. In 2005 I turned 2 walnut salad bowls that my husband and I used 2-3 times a week. At more than 6 years of use, they still looked pretty good. I now sell only at one higher end show, and in 6 galleries. If a customer of mine has an issue with a bowl, I want to know about. Only one customer has ever returned to me, and all it took was a buffing on the Beale system to renew the shine.

Your mileage may vary, as will many other responses to this question.

 

[Jerry Bailey]

as with Donna, I do most my finishing off the lathe
when turning & sanding is complete for the bottom, I apply a sealer coat (de-waxed shellac thinned by 25-30%)
let it dry for several hours, light sanding again, and apply another coat and let that dry a couple hours
then I flip bowl/vessel over, turn & sand inside, and repeat the sealer procedure
(always applying the sealer with the lathe turned off)

Unchuck, apply 1st coat of finish (poly/lacquer/oil) and set aside for a week on a shelf,
when applying my lacquers/oil finishes (whatever final will be) I do all off the lathe.
I usually apply a minimum 5-8 coats final finish ........
and after all coats are complete I let dry for another week or so, then use the Beall buffing process
go thru the 3 steps with Beall, then do a 4th with Renaissance wax, let it dry maybe an hour and buff with soft cotton wheel

as with Donna, I want my pieces useable and durable, and definitely don't want any returns or complaints of failure
If you sand applied finishes too quickly together, you'll just get a gummy build-up, need to let each coat dry properly before going on to next.
I haven't sold many pieces yet (haven't tried), but the ones I have sold, they've all been happy campers and referred me to their friends .......

I have a "following" from when I built cabinets/furniture,
so when I post something new I've done on a lathe (@ Facebook & such), I've had people waiting in line to get a piece .....
haven't been able to build up any inventory ...........

 

[Bill Boehme]

I do not do any finishing on the lathe other than pens.

 

[Scott Brandstetter]

Hi Dave

This is another one of those questions, the answer to which will vary depending on whom you ask. Here's what I do. None of the work that I produce is finished while still on the lathe. More than 50% of my work is utilitarian bowls.

After I'm done with sanding and finishing turning and sanding the bottom, the bowl is taken off the lathe and goes to my finish room. This is a separate room that is used for anything that doesn't raise dust. I use a woodburning pen to write information on the bottom of the bowl (name, date, etc), and then using a 3-part finish that I have pre-mixed, of Boiled Linseed Oil, Turpentine, and high quality varnish (like Fiddes or Behlens), I saturate the bowl and leave it for 30 minutes. The bowl is sitting on old bandsaw blades that I've cut into 12" long pieces, and bent them in the middle to form a V. This keeps the bowl up off the shelf, and allows the finish to dry without marring. After 30 minutes, I re-apply the finish to any dry areas, and then wipe it completely dry using several paper towels. Viva works quite well. I leave the bowl for 24 hours in this 'clean room'.

After 24 hours, I lightly scuff the bowl with 4/0 steel wool, used compressed air to blow the debris off, and return to the clean room and repeat the process. I will do this 3-6 times, depending on the wood, and how much finish it absorbs. The more coats that you apply, the higher 'sheen' you'll get. I allow the bowl finish to dry, or 'cure' for 30 days, and follow that by using the Beale Buffing system. Only then do the bowls go to the galleries, or the customers.

Seems like a lot of work, doesn't it? Here's why I go through all this trouble. I sell my work. My experience has been that finishes that are quick and easy to put on, last about that long. The last thing I want to hear from a customer walking into my booth is a complaint that the bowl they bought from me last year looks like crap. And this is overheard by all the customers who just walked out of my booth with their wallets. In 2005 I turned 2 walnut salad bowls that my husband and I used 2-3 times a week. At more than 6 years of use, they still looked pretty good. I now sell only at one higher end show, and in 6 galleries. If a customer of mine has an issue with a bowl, I want to know about. Only one customer has ever returned to me, and all it took was a buffing on the Beale system to renew the shine.

Your mileage may vary, as will many other responses to this question.

Donna
I'm a newbie and wonder if you would be open to a few questions. I don't want to take over this thread but very interested in your clean room and finish methods. I am struggling with my finishes (along with several other things, lol) but have been thinking long and hard about a separate finish room. Let me know if I could "bug" you a bit with newbie questions.

 

[Donna Banfield]

Sure Scott. Here's my email address: donna@livealifelessordinary.com. If you encounter issues with that one, the fall back is donnabanfieldturns@gmail.com.

 

[john lucas]

the only thing I finish on the lathe is my bottle stoppers. I use thinned lacquer that I put on with a cloth. let it dry whichtakes just seconds. then I apply another layer. Then I use just one drop on the cloth and turn the lathe speed up and more or less French polish it. The rag with little amount of lacquer helps spread and blend the first 2 layers. Most other things I finish off the lathe.

 

[Richard Findley]

In my experience, finishes you apply on the lathe give immediate zing but are something of a short term fix. Good finishes that give zing and are long lasting/hard wearing need a little more work.

I'm often asked 'what's your favourite finish?' Trouble is, it depends on the item you are making, the timber you are using and what it's final use is, as to the best finish. I usually use either an oil finish or a spray lacquer. I have a spray booth which is as dust free as it gets in a turner's workshop!

Both are relatively easy and the more coats you apply the better the finish. Usually 3 coats of lacquer and around 5 of oil works well for me.

Hope this helps

Richard

 

[Jamie Straw]

Type of lacquer?

the only thing I finish on the lathe is my bottle stoppers. I use thinned lacquer that I put on with a cloth. let it dry whichtakes just seconds. then I apply another layer. Then I use just one drop on the cloth and turn the lathe speed up and more or less French polish it. The rag with little amount of lacquer helps spread and blend the first 2 layers. Most other things I finish off the lathe.

John, which lacquer do you like the best? I'm having to rebuild my entire finishing supply, as everything in the cupboard was over 5 years old! $$$$ Anyway, am having to make my choices count, and I have almost no experience with lacquer.

 

[john lucas]

I used to use Deft a lot until I started buffing a lot of my work. The Deft was too soft and I would burn through it with the buffing wheels. I buff with 3" wheels at about 1200 to 1500 rpm so my surface speed is far below what most people buff at. When I used the 8" wheels it cut through it super easily. I had to wait at least 3 days for it to harden enough to buff work. Not good for production stuff like Christmas ornaments and wine stoppers. I found a local supplier that makes their own lacquer. There lacquer is superior to Deft for my purposes. The problem is they only ship in very large quantities. They sell a lot to the local furniture industries and really aren't into selling to individuals other than walk in's. Perhaps you can find a supplier around where you are. Apparently there are lots of places like this around the country. Wish I could be more helpful.
Most people seem to be quite happy with Deft. For wine stoppers I dilute the lacquer 50/50 with lacquer thinner and apply about 3 quick coats. It dries very quickly. Then I will buff with a Bounty paper towel if it's needed with the lathe spinning. Sometimes I'll put just a drop on the paper towel so it sort of acts like a french polish to help smooth out any streaks. On those wine stoppers I don't buff them. If I want a thicker more glossy look I apply a slightly thicker mix of lacquer and let it dry overnight and then buff them the next day.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Thanks, John, that's helpful info. I was thinking mostly of the bottle stoppers, want them to be quick to finish. I've used Deft spray years ago on a couple of small things. I can ask around about a local "special recipe" lacquer and see what might be available. Don't have a buffer yet, but there's an estate sale coming up soon that has one, will see what they want for it.

 

[john lucas]

Jamie I do all my buffing on the lathe. I bought the Don Pencil 8" extension to hold the Buffing wheels. I bought the 4" wheels from Craft Supplies I think, it's been a while. I still had the buffing compound from when I bought the original 8" wheels that I never use.

 

[Dave Fritz]

Donna, if you and Scott would be willing to share some of the things you spoke about I'd love to hear them too. I don't consider anyone has taken over the thread, it's all good information about finishing.

Thanks,

Dave Fritz

 

[Jamie Straw]

I used to use Deft a lot until I started buffing a lot of my work. The Deft was too soft and I would burn through it with the buffing wheels. [Snip] I found a local supplier that makes their own lacquer. There lacquer is superior to Deft for my purposes. [Snip] Most people seem to be quite happy with Deft. For wine stoppers I dilute the lacquer 50/50 with lacquer thinner and apply about 3 quick coats. It dries very quickly. Then I will buff with a Bounty paper towel if it's needed with the lathe spinning. Sometimes I'll put just a drop on the paper towel so it sort of acts like a french polish to help smooth out any streaks. On those wine stoppers I don't buff them. If I want a thicker more glossy look I apply a slightly thicker mix of lacquer and let it dry overnight and then buff them the next day.

John, how do you apply the lacquer? I'm not having much luck so far, have tried a couple different approaches. I have quarts of Deft brushing lacquer (gloss and semi-gloss) and rattle cans of the same. Currently working on wine-stoppers.

 

[Bill Boehme]

John, how do you apply the lacquer? I'm not having much luck so far, have tried a couple different approaches. I have quarts of Deft brushing lacquer (gloss and semi-gloss) and rattle cans of the same. Currently working on wine-stoppers.

I'm not John, but here is what I do. I use un-rattle can Deft gloss spray lacquer. I try to adhere to the humidity and temperature restrictions. It seems like when I want to spray, it's blowing dust, a plague of flying insects, pollen, or the cat wants to help. Occasionally, all the conditions are perfect, but that's not the norm. I first apply a light tack coat and let the VOCs flash off for a few minutes. I then apply a wet coat just heavy enough to level out, but don't get carried away or it surely will sag or run. It's better to spray too little than too much. Allow a few hours to dry and then repeat the above sequence. I usually do at least six wet coats. After the last one, I let the lacquer dry for a week or longer before leveling starting with P400 or finer sandpaper. Then I use Micromesh up to 12,000 grit. Lastly, I polish with Novus2. I rarely power buff because it is too easy to ruin the finish by getting it too hot and smearing or burning through, especially if you don't allow a minimum of a week for it to harden. I also use pre-cat lacquer in rattle cans. It has high solids so it takes longer between coats. Also, I try to let it cure for a couple weeks before leveling and polishing.

 

[Jamie Straw]

I'm not John, but here is what I do. I use un-rattle can Deft gloss spray lacquer. I try to adhere to the humidity and temperature restrictions. It seems like when I want to spray, it's blowing dust, a plague of flying insects, pollen, or the cat wants to help. Occasionally, all the conditions are perfect, but that's not the norm. I first apply a light tack coat and let the VOCs flash off for a few minutes. I then apply a wet coat just heavy enough to level out, but don't get carried away or it surely will sag or run. It's better to spray too little than too much. Allow a few hours to dry and then repeat the above sequence.

Thanks, Bill, for stepping in for John -- he must be out partying somewhere. It seems one mistake I make is to read and follow the application directions on cans, resulting in my applying a subsequent coat probably earlier than is workable.

I usually do at least six wet coats. After the last one, I let the lacquer dry for a week or longer before leveling starting with P400 or finer sandpaper.

Again, I need to wait longer apparently. Other than that, so far so good.

Then I use Micromesh up to 12,000 grit. Lastly, I polish with Novus2.

Oh, my! Hubby was making fun of me the other night when I told him I had sanded something to 2000. I'll never live it down if I go to 12,000.

I rarely power buff because it is too easy to ruin the finish by getting it too hot and smearing or burning through, especially if you don't allow a minimum of a week for it to harden. I also use pre-cat lacquer in rattle cans. It has high solids so it takes longer between coats. Also, I try to let it cure for a couple weeks before leveling and polishing.

Oops, I first read this as "power sand" (not buff). Point taken.




Thanks, Bill,

 

[Bill Boehme]

...... Can't imagine power sanding at that stage anyway, so no problem there!...

A lot of turners power buff with the Beall system. I have all the buffs and all sorts of wheels mops and whatnot mostly collecting dust. I'm sure that it is good or nobody would use it. For a lacquer finish, I just feel like it might be too aggressive. Or, maybe I'm just a Neanderthal when it comes to working with wood.

 

[odie]

It's easy to blend the foot with the rest of the bowl, because the intersection is at a corner. I'm a faceplate turner, and apply a Danish Oil while the bowl is spinning on the lathe, and still attached to the wasteblock. I then part the bowl from the wasteblock and turn the foot while the bowl is held in Oneway jumbo jaws. The polishing and waxing is done with the Beall method.....this step is done off the lathe.

ko

 

[Jamie Straw]

A lot of turners power buff with the Beall system. I have all the buffs and all sorts of wheels mops and whatnot mostly collecting dust. I'm sure that it is good or nobody would use it. For a lacquer finish, I just feel like it might be too aggressive. Or, maybe I'm just a Neanderthal when it comes to working with wood.

Confusion -- I mis-read your sentence about power buffing (read it as "power sand"). I have corrected my response. Yep, I have the Beall stuff, am being cautious with it.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

A lot of turners power buff with the Beall system. I have all the buffs and all sorts of wheels mops and whatnot mostly collecting dust. I'm sure that it is good or nobody would use it. For a lacquer finish, I just feel like it might be too aggressive. Or, maybe I'm just a Neanderthal when it comes to working with wood.

Bill , I am not an expert on lacquer, but have started skipping the red rouge and go to white diamond only and that seems to work better . Have you tried skipping straight to white diamond?

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill , I am not an expert on lacquer, but have started skipping the red rouge and go to white diamond only and that seems to work better . Have you tried skipping straight to white diamond?

My preference is to hand finish and polish a high gloss surface. I can see sleek scratches (see the proposed optical definition of sleek scratch below) in a power buffed glossy finish.

Proposed optical "sleek" definition from the minutes of the ASC OP/TF 2 – Working group Committee for Optics and Electro-Optical Instruments – Appearance Imperfections Standard Meeting, February 8, 2015 (ISO 10110-7)

“A sleek is a long surface feature that is narrow, faint, without evidence of conchoidal fracturing at the edges, only visible over a narrow range of angles, and is smaller than 0.003 mm wide and deep.â€

Sky & Telescope article on cleaning optics and warning about sleeks


What? Of course I'm not OCD!
​

 

[Dave Fritz]

It's easy to blend the foot with the rest of the bowl, because the intersection is at a corner. I'm a faceplate turner, and apply a Danish Oil while the bowl is spinning on the lathe, and still attached to the wasteblock. I then part the bowl from the wasteblock and turn the foot while the bowl is held in Oneway jumbo jaws. The polishing and waxing is done with the Beall method.....this step is done off the lathe.

ko

How many coats of Danish Oil do you use?

 

[odie]

How many coats of Danish Oil do you use?

Hello Dave.......

Generally, only one, but it does depend on each individual species.....and how that individual piece of wood is reacting to the DO. I soak it pretty good initially, and then use 0000 steel wool, at a very slow rpm, while the DO is still wet, adding some as the surface soaks it up, and/or dries out. I never part the bowl from the waste block right away, so that additional coats can be applied when I feel it's necessary.......most of the time, it's not necessary. I always wait until the next day, or longer, to make that decision.

ko

 

[John K Jordan]

How much of the finish do you do on the lathe? If you do most of it on the lathe how do you blend the bottom, assuming you're working while the piece is in the chuck?

A simple answer to that is difficult. Often the method I use and the amount done on the lathe depends on the object, the size, the intended use, the type of wood, the type of finish, and the effect I'm looking for. And what I feel like experimenting with at the time.

I finish most things off the lathe, bowls, platters, larger spindles, etc., but for many of these I do apply a coat or two of sanding sealer before removing from the lathe. Reversing to shape, sand and apply sealer to the other end doesn't typically cause blending problems. Beeswax it is almost always applied with friction with the lathe running, sometimes with the help of a heat gun. I do some "on the lathe" finishing with the work spinning and some mounted on the lathe but turned by hand.

I finish many small diameter spindles entirely on the lathe, things such as finials, finger tops, "Harry Potter" wands, conductor's batons, special handles, bottle stoppers, and the rare pen.

Some things get a superglue finish on the lathe. More get a shellac based friction polish (Mylands). On some I start the finish on the lathe and finish the finish off the lathe, sometimes with lacquer, sometimes with TruOil, other times with danish oil.

JKJ