finishing with CA glue

[Sean Boyle]

I turned my first pen today a tried to finish with CA glue. Turned and sanded to 400 then applied 3 coats thin of ca glue with 10 min between coats then sanded with 600 and way to coarse. I have never used CA glue as a finish. Once the glue is applied where do I go from there. I was told by a contact at a supplier to treat it like acrylic but I have never worked acrylic HELP...

 

[Sean Boyle]

also what other finishes can be used for pens

 

[Bill Boehme]

You will need Micromesh or equivalent to finish the pen. The abrasives go up to 12,ooo grit in the Micromesh packs sold by Rocklers. There ae also techniques for applying CA to get a reasonably smooth application of CA. It would be a good idea to visit the IAP web site to get more in-depth help.

 

[Jerry Bailey]

a friend of mine uses this method, and gets high shine work .....

with paper towel, apply light coat boiled linseed oil
with paper towel, immediately apply light coat of CA
let dry (minimum 2 hours)
light sanding (on lathe while turning) with 600 grit wet paper (very light so water looks milky)
apply another light coat linseed and CA with paper towel, and again let dry minimum 2 hours
light "sanding" with piece from brown paper bag (he says is same as 4000+ grit)

do this with 2-3 more coats with CA only and then buff's out
his sheens are really a high gloss ....

 

[Steve Doerr]

Sean, I use CA exclusively on my wood and antler pens. I have never used CA with BLO. I know some do, but from what I have heard, the CA keeps the BLO from really curing. My method is very simple. I sand the blank to 600 and blow all of the dust off. Using a paper towel, I apply 10 coats of medium CA. I then lightly sand using 400 and then 600 grit sand paper to smooth the CA on the blank. The purpose of this sanding is to make sure that the CA is smooth with no glossy spots. (Glossy spot means there is a divot at that spot.) Be careful not to sand thru the CA or you will have to remove all of the CA and start all over. Make sure all CA dust is removed from the the blank. I then apply 10 more coats of medium CA with a paper towel. During the application of the CA you can lightly mist the CA with accelerator to speed up the drying process. I then again lightly sand with 400 & 600 grit paper. Once this is complete, I then will wet sand with micro-mesh thru all 9 grits. This will produce a very durable high gloss finish that is second to none.

I know there are others that use different, but similar process to mine. I have been using this method for over 6 years. Most of my first pens still have a high gloss finish even after regular daily use.

You might want to checkout some of the U Tube videos to watch how it is done. Good luck and HTH.
Steve

 

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

I use 2 - 3 coats of thin CA

then 2 -3 coats of medium CA

I use craft foam to apply. I've had much better luck with it than I ever did using paper towels. I also use accelerator between each coat. generally a light spritz with an aerosol can, but sometimes a wipe with a paper towel moistened with accelerator.

I prefer to let the CA off-gas/cure at least overnight or for a few days.

then start sanding - I usually start at 400 w/d, then 600 and 800, then through all 9 grades of MicroMesh

 

[John Solie]

You're going to get about a dozen answers and all will be correct. :cool2:

I've done a couple coats of thin CA, then medium CA, and had mixed results.

I've found that (for me anyway), I have better results with just using thin CA and using accelerator about every third application of CA. I'll put on a lot of coats since I want to make it more difficult to sand through the finish when I'm done with the CA.

I'll wear a nitrile glove on my left hand, which is the hand I hold a folded paper towel. I don't use very much CA, and it sets fast so you've got to move quick. I do not apply much pressure since I don't want to glue the paper towel to my glove, nor do I like the heat from the curing CA.

When I'm done with the CA, I'll start with 400 grit sandpaper and am trying to get the entire pen a uniform shade of "gray." I have a work light which shows shiny low spots. I'll lightly sand those out. When I'm happy with the blank, I'll blow it off with some compressed air, wipe it down and proceed to 600 grit and repeat.

At this point, I might break out my micro-mesh pads and (lightly) dry sand up through all the grits. I find wet sanding to be more aggressive and I don't want to sand through the CA. After finishing with the pads, I'll use a couple applications of a plastic polish, which really kicks up the shine.

Recently, I've tried a couple of pens where I didn't use the micro-mesh, but went straight to the plastic polish after 400/600 grit. I have to use more polish, and it produces reasonably good results. It doesn't seem to be as nice as when I use the pads, but it's a lot quicker and my test subjects haven't noticed a difference.

There are several videos on YouTube regarding CA finishes for pens. Somewhere in the mix of all this you'll find what works best for you.

 

[Bill Boehme]

John is right. I have heard of a number of methods using CA and in the end, you need to decide which you prefer or come up with your own variation. I am convinced that for pens, CA gives the most durable finish unless you want to do a pen with a "natural" look that uses no finish or just uses a light treatment of oil. I would avoid any finish that uses shellac because a lot of things can dull the finish rather quickly.

The problem with going straight to the plastic polish is that it does not level the surface -- it just polishes whatever is there -- bumps and all.

 

[John Solie]

The problem with going straight to the plastic polish is that it does not level the surface -- it just polishes whatever is there -- bumps and all.

Thanks for pointing that out... It's always fun to try composing messages when you're in an environment where interruptions abound. I added a small clarification to my post, but will summarize here. I've turned a few pens where, after leveling the CA with 400/600 grit, I've gone straight to the plastic polish instead of going through the MM pads first then the polish.

 

[Sean Boyle]

thanks for the help found the micro mesh pads they are on order. Although I am not 100 % happy with the results of my first pen it did get me a order for 20 have to be ready for end of February those parts are on order as well.

 

[Dean Center]

CA finish is commonly used by rod builders on their wood reel seat inserts, much like pens. In many discussions on a rod building forum, just as here, people report using many different recipes. Each person seems to have to work out their personal variation, probably due to differences in lathe speed, pressure applied, length of time of application, speed of moving the paper/applicator, wood being used, possibly the brand or thickness of CA, maybe ambient temperature or humidity, and so on.

One thing you might not think of as a variable, is the paper towel. An experienced builder advised me to use Viva brand paper towels, which have a felted paper, more cloth like than other brands, and I do get better results. (My personal recipe includes 3-4 coats of medium CA, TruOil instead of BLO between coats of CA, sanding with 400 dry, then wet sanding with 600 and 1200, and finally polishing with brown paper bag)

The bottom line is that you will develop your own recipe based on the advice of others and your own experience. Once you find your mojo, don't ever change a thing!

 

[Bill Boehme]

Dean, thanks for the tip about Viva paper towels. I will give them a try. I have used Bounty which seem to work better than most, but some paper towels especially the cheaper ones are almost as good as my skin when it comes to being a perfect accelerator/catalyst for CA.

I have a love/hate relationship with CA -- I can't get near a bottle without gluing myself to something, but it is so handy for so many things. Recently I congratulated myself for not getting glued to something until I discovered that some of the CA had leaked through the turning and dripped onto my jeans. Also, I was out of debonder.

 

[Dean Center]

...some paper towels especially the cheaper ones are almost as good as my skin when it comes to being a perfect accelerator/catalyst for CA.

Bill,

Unlike me, you live in an area with some moisture in the air, which will make the CA set up faster than in a low humidity climate or time of year. You might buy a little extra time by running a dehumidifier, if you have one, when you're going to use a CA finish.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill,

Unlike me, you live in an area with some moisture in the air, which will make the CA set up faster than in a low humidity climate or time of year. You might buy a little extra time by running a dehumidifier, if you have one, when you're going to use a CA finish.

I generally go outdoors because the thin stuff reacts so quickly and violently that the fumes are unbearable. At least outdoors I can be upwind. I don't know if it is due to the moisture, but I have found that putting CA on a cotton cloth is another thing that causes almost instant fuming.

 

[Kevin Miller]

The Blue shop paper towels seem to slow the cure on thin and medium CA the most for me. I got that tip from someone on you tube and just happened to have some in the garage so I tried it. A drop on the Viva towels I had at the lathe (I use these for plastic finishes and friction finishes because they're a bit softer), A drop on the bounty my wife uses in the kitchen and a drop on the blue shop towel.

The thin CA on the bounty almost cured instantly. Could even see the "smoke" coming off of it. The Viva was next and sure enough the Blue shop towel held off the "cure" longer than any of them.

No idea why and really don't care much. It seem to work so that's what I use for mine now.

 

[Ian Thorn]

I just use small piece of paper towel a drop of water then Ca and it seems to go of very quick. when applying the ca I keep moving the towel back and forth fast and hardly get any rough spots then sand with 1200 1500 then Ubeut EEE.

Ian

 

[john lucas]

I don't make many pens so take this as it may. I finish most of my turnings with lacquer so I always have it around. That along with the hassle of using CA (bad eye irritant, heats of paper towels which burn your fingers and is expensive) means that I just use the lacquer. If you burn through lacquer you can just apply more because it melts itself. I carried the last pen I made for a year before I lost it. No damage to the finish at all. This one had 4 thinned layers applied with a bounty paper towel (will have to try Viva because I think Bounty changed something over the years and it wants to shred to easily now). I thin the lacquer about 60 lacquer to 40 lacquer thinner. I apply it with the lathe running slow and then crank it up and use the paper towel with just a drop to sort of melt the finish and smooth it kind of like french polishing. I let it dry for about a minute and do it again. If the finish isn't glossy enough I buff it with the Beale buffing system. However that is the same as mentioned above in that if the finish isn't perfectly flat is just buffs the not flat areas as well.
Instead of micromesh I sand to 600 grit and then use 4/0 steel wood to further polish then go to automotive paste polishes. I experimented a lot with different systems when trying to polish epoxy and other resins to a glass like surface. This worked as well as micromesh and is a lot less expensive. I do have some new sandpapers now that I bought from Thesandingglove. It's a brown paper and goes up to 1500 grit. I've been using those instead of the 4/0 wool now and they work very well and not too expensive. The are also excellent for sanding white woods and not leaving the sanding color in them like the wet or dry papers did.
I'm pretty sure it's not as thick of a looking finish as the CA and may not be as durable although most furniture is finished with lacquer. For my purposes it's fine but then I'm not selling pens and certainly not for the high dollars some get. Since most of them are gifts I don't want to spend 3 days on the finish (even though most of my friends are worth the time)

 

[Joe Greiner]

Dean, thanks for the tip about Viva paper towels. I will give them a try. I have used Bounty which seem to work better than most, but some paper towels especially the cheaper ones are almost as good as my skin when it comes to being a perfect accelerator/catalyst for CA.

I have a love/hate relationship with CA -- I can't get near a bottle without gluing myself to something, but it is so handy for so many things. Recently I congratulated myself for not getting glued to something until I discovered that some of the CA had leaked through the turning and dripped onto my jeans. Also, I was out of debonder.

Debonder is sold by the ounce. Acetone is sold by the quart.

 

[Steve Worcester]

Stickfast has a video on doing this, but what I do is sand wood to about 400, then a few coats of thin to seal. Use accelerator and sand with a 600 back down to the wood or at least level. Then I use mediums with accelerator for a couple coats. I use Abranet 600 to level then put another coat or two of medium CA. At that point if there are swirls marks, sand with water using 800 and 1000. Then I use Abralon 1000, 2000 and 4000 with water. After that I use 3M auto polishing compounds. Rubbing compound then Swirl mark remover polish. You can also use Novus plastic polishing compounds or the stuff Stickfast sells, but the 3M works quicker for me. Although the Stickfast Gloss is pretty good.

I think 10 coats is excessive and invites cracking because the finish will not move at the same rate as the wood, presuming it isn't stabilized.