Finishing with guilders Paste and oil

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Fadi Zeidan, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    187
    hey guys,

    I’m working on a bowl that I colored black using Speedball black ink. I plan on carving areas and applying gold guilders paste to the carved recess. I’m trying to figure out how do I finish the bowl.

    1. Should I apply Danish oil to the whole bowl before I carve sections on it then apply guilders paste
    2. Should I carve it then apply Danish oil on all of it then follow up with guilders paste
    3. Should I carve it, apply guilders paste then apply Danish oil
    4. Use some other finish
    My concern is the oil and guilders paste not going well together.
     
  2. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,139
    Location:
    Dalworthington Gardens, TX
    Home Page:
    Forget about the Danish oil. Apply the gilders paste and then buff with a rag to work it into the crevices and pores. Continue buffing to remove the gilders paste until the desired effect is achieved. Allow it to dry for a day or two and then finish with some light coats of spray lacquer. My favorite is Deft gloss.
     
    Regis Galbach and Fadi Zeidan like this.
  3. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    187
    Thanks bill, I have deft lacquer spray. I’ll do that.
     
  4. john lucas

    john lucas

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    5,830
    Location:
    Cookeville TN USA
    I have always used lacquer but lately have been using minwax wipe on poly and so far that's worked quite fine as a finish over the wax. quite often I don't put anything over it and it's fine as long as you don't try to buff it. If in doubt you can always use shellac as the first barrier layer over the wax.
     
  5. Richard Coers

    Richard Coers

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    Peoria, Illinois
    What's the species? Remember using guilders paste on open pore woods will fill all of those pores. Especially if applied on something with no finish film.
     
  6. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    187
    I’ve used minwax on few pieces, because I’m going to carve it, I’m not sure how it fill some of the spots. I’m also debating if I want to make it glossy. Right now it is black and really like the look of it as is but I need to apply a finish
     
  7. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    187
    It is black walnut. I’ve sanded it to 400, I’m going to carve recesses into it then apply one more coat of black ink, sand to 600 and apply the gilders paste in the recess.

    7C82E0BF-8133-4CB4-B0CB-03B1E866FA4F.jpeg
     
  8. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,139
    Location:
    Dalworthington Gardens, TX
    Home Page:
    If you decide that you don't want glossy, it's easy to just shoot a coat of semi gloss or matte over it. Disadvantage of gloss is that it highlights a bad sanding job especially on a black background. Disadvantage of semi gloss and matte finishes is that they have optical flatteners that show up as a whitish haze on a black background ... making it look dark gray. Sometimes no topcoat finish is better than a matte clear coat.
     
  9. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,139
    Location:
    Dalworthington Gardens, TX
    Home Page:
    In this case, I would apply clear lacquer over the piece now before you carve it. Then apply the guilders paste and finally finish with another coat of lacquer.
     
  10. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    187
    Curious, why the first clear lacquer before carving?
     
  11. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,139
    Location:
    Dalworthington Gardens, TX
    Home Page:
    I suppose that you could carve and then apply the lacquer, but the rationale would be to keep the dyed black area clean ... if that is your intention. Otherwise, the gilding paste will become embedded in the pores and even with a well sanded surface the gilding paste fills microscopic irregularities. With a few coats of lacquer to give a smooth non-porous surface, the surface can be wiped clean of gilding paste except for the carved areas ... if that is what you want.
     
  12. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    187
    That makes sense and solves my issue with making sure the gilders paste doesn’t rub outside the recesses, thanks again bill!
     
  13. john lucas

    john lucas

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    5,830
    Location:
    Cookeville TN USA
    I just re read Betty Scarpino's article on using gilding paste and she recommends using 2 light coats of lacquer before using the paste. You don't want enough to fill in the pores but you want enough to protect the other finish. without the lacquer the paste will change the color of the areas you don't want to change. I tried it with and without the other day to see and she is correct (DUH).
     
  14. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    187
    Thanks John! I will do that. This is my first piece and first try on what I am trying to do so it will most likely be a learning experiment for future pieces.
     
  15. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,139
    Location:
    Dalworthington Gardens, TX
    Home Page:
    It depends on whether or not your goal is to accentuate the grain pattern. On wood that is strongly ring porous such as ash the objective is usually to highlight the grain pattern and Betty's suggestion would apply. However, in this situation it sounds like the goal is to only apply the guilding paste to the carved area so building up the finish would work better.
     
  16. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    187
    This is not exact as it uses dyes, I’m trying to achieve the same separation between colored recess and the rest of the body.

    http://pin.it/anSyce-
     
  17. john lucas

    john lucas

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    5,830
    Location:
    Cookeville TN USA
    It the case of the photo you have, very careful application by brush was probably how that was done. Using a gullding wax to accentuate carving you would want to fill the grain like Bill said to avoid having the wax colored grain detract from the carving. Best bet is to use a wood that doesn't have a lot of pores such as cherry, maple, bradford pear, etc. If you use walnut, oak,or ash you will have lots of pores to fill.
     
  18. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    Home Page:
    There are so many ways to embellish... I have been using gold leaf with my boxes, what I learnt at Arrowmont with Emmet Kane. Please show us the final product, I would like to see it. Aloha
     
  19. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    187
    Only if it comes out right :) I think the challenge will be cutting crisp line. I might try it this afternoon after work.
     
    Emiliano Achaval likes this.
  20. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    187
    Well, that went down hill real quick!

    Dropped the red gilders paste on my shorts while opening it and smeared my cloth, kitchen, everything. In the process of trying to catch it, smeared the bowl in red as well. Not to mention my micro carver carbide burr kept getting clogged and would not drill deep even after constant cleaning and was disappointed.

    In the end, I decided to give up and wiped the whole piece in gold then red gilders paste.

    My wife keeps thinking my designs are by creative calculated execution...

    07AC82CA-96F0-40B4-B95D-2FC17246321E.jpeg 65BFB6B8-A811-40EA-BE02-572688571F7E.jpeg
     

Share This Page