First set of gouges, recommendation?

Discussion in 'Newbie' started by Fadi Zeidan, Sep 14, 2016.

  1. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Mounting the grinder and woulverine tracks on 3/4" plywood gives the flexibility to try different heights, benches, and carts. etc. find what works best for you.
    Also sharpening styles can change over time.

    When I used to hand sharpen the Ellsworth grind on a platform I liked the center of the grinder wheel just below eye level. This gave me a good sight line and a control of the tool.

    Using the Ellsworth jig I like the center of the grinder wheel a little above my waist. This is also a great height for me to hand sharpen spindle gouges as I rest the hand holding the Handel,on the top of my thigh.
     
  2. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

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  3. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Probably one clamp will hold it nicely.

    I often do demos where the grinder mounted to plywood just sits on a table.
    It vibrates a little but moves real slow so it isn't an issue for one or two sharpened ts.
     
  4. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    My sharpening station is mobile. The grinder is a slow speed Woodcraft ,now they have Rikon. Station is on wheels with tools being used on current project. Grinder is on ply with rubber feet and not bolted down.
    1-Sharpening turning tools.JPG
     
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  5. Zach LaPerriere

    Zach LaPerriere

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    Back to the V shape vs. the U shape discussion a number of posts back...

    Glenn Lucas makes the case that the parabolic flute is the easiest to sharpen, especially on the Irish, swept-back, Ellsworth grinds. Glenn goes so far as to say that he only uses a parabolic flute.

    Here's why: both the U shape and the V shape gouges have straight wings/side with a curve at the bottom. It takes greater skill and attention to not oversharpen the intersection of the straight wings and the bottom curve. What you're left with if you don't get it right is a cutting surface that has high and low edges.

    With a parabolic curve there are no straight sections and the curve diminishes the further up the wing you go (because it's a parabola, after all!) My experience backs this up as well, though I didn't know at the time why my first attempts at an Irish grind had high and low edges.

    Of course everyone's sharpening and turning style differ...I'm interested to hear what others have to say.

    And Fadi, I hope this thread hasn't confused you too much!
     
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  6. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    I am a parabolic flute guy because I use the Ellsworth grind and it works best on the parabolic flute.
    The parabolic flute gives a nicer shape to the leading edge of the wing which makes the gouge cut so nicely on the push cut and on shear cuts.

    Never thought much about the differences in sharpening other than it is really easy to over grind the nose of the vee flutes. Straight side difficulty makes sense.

    I have seen lots of poorly ground parabolic flutes too.
     
  7. john lucas

    john lucas

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    If we are just talking about how clean a tool cuts it's all about the angle the tool is sharpened, not necessarily about the shape. If you have 2 bowl gouges with the same shape but one has a 60 degree angle at the tip and one has a 40, the 40 degree will but cleaner. Now that is assuming you present both edges the same way to the wood. A traditional gouge and Ellsworth gouge will both cut the same if the sharpening angle is the same and you present the cutting edge at the same skewed angle. Granted some shapes allow you to present the tool at a more skewed angle for some cuts and this will almost always give a cleaner cut. I often use the traditional gouge by using the left wing flute up so that the wood crosses that edge at a very skewed angle. This of course gives a very clean cut. I tend to use the Ellsworth grind for roughing bowls with the flute about 45 degrees to the left. The lower wing then hits the wood at a somewhat blunt angle and cuts very rapidly although not as clean. However when roughing bowls you aren't looking for clean.
    Back to the original question. Remember that British gouges are measure by the flute width or from one side of the gouge to the other inside flute. American tools are measured by shaft size. So a 1/2" American gouge will probably be a 5/8" British gouge. Just thought I'd through that in incase you are looking at tools from overseas such as Sorby or Henry taylor.
     
  8. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    You have it backwards. A half inch British gouge would be a 5/8" American gouge.
     
  9. Dave Morgan

    Dave Morgan

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    Fadi, you have received some very good advice here and all usable. I've turned some over the years and almost daily for the past 3 yrs. Not knowing if I wanted to get into turning as much as I have, I started with less expensive tools. By doing that I have learned very well how to sharpen! I've used different grinds to see how they fit "me" and how they worked for "me" and have used different size and brands of gouges. That worked very good for me and now I'm buying the tools, grinds, handles, etc. I've decided on. The only added advice I can offer is to get what works and gives the best results for "you"!
     
  10. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

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    Thanks guys, I received my jamieson bowl gouge on Friday and uses it some over the weekend. I need to watch more videos, but overall it was not as difficult as I thought. I'm planning to practice some more next weekend (I only turn on weekends) and definitely making the switch.

    Overall impression is that they have much smoother finish. I even used the gouge to clean cut after using the carbides. Had one catch, but nothing serious.
     
  11. Barry Crowder

    Barry Crowder

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    I'm a little late to the party, but something that comes to mind when moving from carbide tools to a bowl gouge is that carbides are mostly used in a scraping mode (yes, there are exceptions, but mostly scraping), while bowl gouges are used for bevel supported cuts. These are very different techniques, and I would encourage anyone switching from carbide tools to bowl gouge to be aware of the differences as they explore the new gouge.

    I don't mean to imply a lack of knowledge on anyone's part... It's one of those things that I key in on, particularly watching YouTube videos of the "I just got a new lathe" variety. These videos almost never show a bevel supported cut, and if one were just to watch these videos, it wouldn't be obvious that bevel supported cuts even exist.

    Since you mentioned Lyle Jamieson, he has a good article titled, "How to Avoid A Catch – Woodturner’s Fear Factor" on his website.
    Again, no offense intended, and you may already know this. This is just an important distinction that could get missed, depending on one's exposure.
     
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  12. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

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    Thanks Barry, and excellent point thank you :)

    Yes I heard that carbides are considered scrapers as you said and that's why I wanted to switch to gouges.

    I am watching videos from various folks including some on this forum on bowl gouges. I should dedicate one weekend to just trying various cuts without worrying about the bowl design.

    Overall, I was able to do it some cuts but it wasn't smooth sailing.

    At times I lost the contact with the bevel, other times it was difficult to establish that first entry point to establish bevel contact with the gouge bouncing around. I also found it difficult to get more than small cuts, not like the videos where they get long bigger shavings. and found myself applying force at times.

    Overall, I was intimidated by the gouges but after trying it, it is just a matter of practice. This was just me trying it out. I still have not got a grinder, I used the gouge out of the box to give it a try it so it is probably not as sharp as it needs to be.
     
  13. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Do you know the species of the wood and is it wet or dry ... or somewhere in between?

    The bowl gouge was probably sharp when you got it since it was made by Thompson, but it doesn't take too long for the edge to become dull. If it isn't too dull then you could touch up the edge with a diamond slipstone a couple times, but you will need to get a grinder very soon.
     
  14. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

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    I believe that one was waxed on the green side hickory, not freshlily cut, purchased it on eBay.
     
  15. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    When I began turning, I think that I was suffering from information overload (where to stand, posture, body movements, tool rest height, hand positions, tool position, watching the horizon of the bowl) ...... somewhere in this extensive pre-flight checklist I would lose track of how the tool should meet the wood. And the result was always the dreaded "BIG BANG" followed by some bad words being uttered. The light bulb finally came on when I started paying attention to how the bevel meets the wood. And, I also discovered that most other things such as turning posture, tool and hand position, and toolrest height automatically followed along.
     
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  16. Fadi Zeidan

    Fadi Zeidan

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    I just need to practice some more, first time holding a gouge, and it went better than expected :)
     
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