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? for those of you who have sliding headstocks.....

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by odie, Nov 22, 2017.

  1. odie

    odie

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    View: https://youtu.be/9O5mpBVJqeE


    At 3:55, it says the headstock is more stable if positioned at the end. Just wondering if those of you who have sliding headstocks find this to be true.....

    -----odie-----
     
  2. JeffSmith

    JeffSmith

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    I’ve got a Robust AB - use the headstock regularly at both ends and just about every inch of the bed in between. for the most part, its at about the 1/2 way point. Never had a problem with the headstock being anything but rock-steady. Been using it that way for over 5 years.
    My former lathe was a Jet 1642 - it didn’t seem to have a problem with headstock security either even though the banjo was notoriousfor letting go just when I needed it most.

    While I’m not obsessive about it, I do try to keep things clean around the bed and check the clamping plates every now and again...
     
  3. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I thought that the bed looked awfully lightweight for a lathe with a 24" swing. The leg castings looked really rough. The tailstock seemed like something that belongs on a much smaller lathe. They claimed that the motor is 3 HP, but the size seems way too small and I would have guessed 1½ or 2 HP. The inverter is a bottom of the line Delta S1. Finally, I don't like the tool rest clamping mechanism. I can see the possibility of difficulty removing or inserting a tool rest. I can also see the possibilities of the toolrest slipping while turning.

    Given the lightweights bed, I can see why they recommended parking the headstock over the legs. I position the headstock on my Robust wherever it is the most convenient.

    In summary, I think that the Laguna has way too much swing for for a lathe of its build. A swing of 16" seems more appropriate to me.
     
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  4. Jon Minerich

    Jon Minerich

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    Bill,
    As a “newer” woodturner don’t know if I am qualified to respond or not. As a recent purchaser or the Laguna Revo 1836, I would like to share my thoughts.

    I recently upgraded from a Delta 46-460 to my new Revo. Like many turners, I dreamed about the Robust, Oneway, and Powermatics, Vicmarcs, etc. However my budget gave me a reality check. I researched quite a few mid-priced lathes-Jet, Nova, Grizzly, Laguna, etc. I talked to several turners in our local club. I also got to test drive some of their machines. For a few months I aggressively searched the internet and club websites, but couldn’t find a used lathe that fit my needs, close enough to home. (Like you I would have a hard time purchasing a lathe, sight unseen.) The Laguna was on sale and so I made my decision. It was delivered to my door for $75!

    I believe the fit and finish is comparable to the other lathes I researched. The internet reviews were very good. I invited one of our most experienced turners from our club to visit and give me his honest opinion (he happens to own 5 different lathes including a big Oneway). He told me he was very impressed with my lathe, considering it’s price.

    Finally, you should know that I have a small shop. I moved the headstock in so the motor wouldn’t hang out off the end of the bed, taking up more space. I experienced no vibration. Granted I haven’t turned a large, out of balance bowl, but lathe runs smoothly. I can’t remark on the electronics because I am not an engineer.

    So based on my limited qualifications, I would recommend anyone looking at a mid-priced lathe, give consideration to the Laguna. It may not be the best lathe out there, but I believe you get a lot of value for the money.

    Thanks,
    Jon
     
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  5. RichColvin

    RichColvin

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    Odie,

    I have the Powermatic 3520B, and slide the headstock to the other end (the tailstock side) when turning bowls. Works well and makes the job much easier. As for issues, I've seen none.

    Kind regards,
    Rich
     
  6. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    One strong testimony for the Laguna Revo - Craft Supplies sells it.
    They know woodturning and what they carry works for woodturners.

    With any lathe - heavy blanks should be turned with the headstock above a leg set or close to it.
    Small and medium size work will vibrate less and you are unlikely to be able to measure the extra vibration when the headstock is in the middle. You will gain a 100+ rpm with the headstock over the legs with heavy blanks which is a big deal for roughing.

    90% of turners will be happier and more successful turners by
    Buying a Jet or Laguna and using the money saved to take quality classes.
    Robust and ONEWAY are terrific lathes however making crappy work on a terrific lathe is not nearly as satisfying as making great work on a second tier lathe.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  7. Fred Belknap

    Fred Belknap

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    I have a PM 3520B and my headstock is positioned pretty close to the middle of the ways most of the time. I have the ways marked with a sharpie so I can return it to the same position when I move it. I sometimes move it all the way to the end to buff larger bowls just to have more room to buff, I then move it back to the marked position. I can't notice an difference in stability any where I move it. I do a lot of off balanced NE bowls and sometimes I have to lower the speed till they get more round but that happens wherever I have the headstock positioned. I have a swing away that I use when turning the inside of bowls which gives me full access to the bowl inards
     
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  8. Lamar Wright

    Lamar Wright

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    Hi Odie, headstock on my new Jet 1640 is stable any where I move it and that includes rotating the headstock as well.
     
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  9. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Try an experiment.
    Put a 50+ pound slightly out of balance blank on your lathe.
    Check the speed you get with the headstock in the middle.
    Check the speed you get with the headstock on the end.

    Use the tailstock. Run the lathe up until vibration is excessive then try increasing to see if it reduces.
    If it keeps increasing back off. Report the speeds. Or dial position.
    To measure vibration you can put a half full water bottle on the ways and mark the height of the ripples. Be sure to get the same vibration level for the speed measure.
     
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  10. odie

    odie

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    Thanks for this idea, Al......will be trying this today! :D

    -----odie-----
     
  11. john lucas

    john lucas

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    Wow Al. gotta try that. I have turned pieces on either end and the middle of my Powermatic 3520A and didn't see any difference but then I didn't do a test like that.
     
  12. William Rogers

    William Rogers

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    Happy Thanksgiving
    Bill, a few observations from your post. I have the Laguna 18-36 and have never turned on the 24-36 or seen one other than pictures. I have turned on the Robust AB and Powermatic 4224. The 18-38 has the some of the same things as the 24-36. In regard to the tool rest clamp I find it much better as far as holding then my Powermatic 90 is that is the same as the new Powermatic 3520C. Only complaint there is location of lever. Cast iron legs "rough". Typical cast surface to me. Never crossed my mind and has no function.. The fit of the lathe was great as everything lined up and no binding during assembly. I have the Delta S1 inverter. Low end, I have no idea. Seems to work just fine and I believe it is proven on other lathes. Weight of my 18-36 base is 427 lbs. I added 280 lbs. of sand ballast between the legs using the built in cast feature. Not necessarily the same as if it were in the mass of the lathe, but it doesn't go anywhere. Laguna also has wide legs adding to stability. You really need to know the amps to determine the hp. The 24-36 can have either a 2hp or 3hp, who knows what motor was on the one in the video. 2hp seems to be plenty for me. As far as the sliding headstock I move it to the opposite end when doing bowls and keep it over the legs when not. For me there is no advantage to move it in the middle. I like to move the tailstock out of the way and do not have a swing away. The things you see as issues are non-issues to me. As a hobbiest I am very happy with my Laguna. More expensive lathes have more features, but they won't make me a better turner. I'm better off with my $2500 lathe and $4500 tooling than a $7000 lathe and no tooling.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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  13. Dan Bevilacqua

    Dan Bevilacqua

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    Great thread for me, because I have have some interest in eventually (need to save more $$) purchasing the Laguna Revo 18/36. Thanks for starting the thread, Odie.
     
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  14. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    Well, I have had a sliding headstock for 18 years or so, PM3520A and Robust. I can't really compare them to the Oneway or Vicmark lathes which have fixed headstocks because I don't have thousands of bowls turning time on them. Many noted turners claim that there are vibration issues with lathes that have sliding headstocks compared to the fixed headstocks. The first models of sliding headstocks had very small pressure plated on the bottom of the headstock that were pretty much the same size as the one on the banjo. My Beauty has one that runs full length with bolts on both ends of the plate. Pretty secure. That being said, there has to be at least some extra vibration if the headstock is in the middle of the lathe bed. When I am seating a tool in a wood handle, I pound the butt end on a work bench, and always do that directly over a leg rather than in the middle of the bench because that point is more solid. How much vibration is there? Probably minimal. I slide mine down to the tailstock end leaving enough room for the tailstock to fit onto the main part of the lathe bed, which is a foot or so from the end of the lathe, and almost to the edge of the metal flange on the leg that secures it to the lathe bed. If I have the headstock in the middle of the lathe, that is for turning spindles, not bowls.

    I haven't turned on this particular lathe, but have on the 18 inch model. Impressions are that the leg splay is very minimal, and needs to be widened. This would reduce vibration. The mobility wheels and brackets are very much in the way/stick out way too far if you stand at the end of the lathe to turn bowls. Also, I do not like that cone on the headstock. 3 1/2 inches is a big lever arm, and by the time you add a chuck, your bowl is at least 6 inches off the footprint of the headstock. This adds considerably to vibration issues. When the tailstock is engaged, this problem is minimal. Take away the tailstock, like you have to do for coring with the McNaughton, and you get a lot of vibration. Same for turning out the inside of the bowl. This cone, and other variations of it seems to be for the sole purpose of getting clearance from the headstock for twice turned bowls to make it easier to turn the bottom outside of the bowl when you reverse it. I guess that is some thing to consider if you turn that way. For me, if I turned that way, when I trued up the tenon, I would finish turn an inch or so of the outside wall of the bowl before reversing so work in that spot would be minimal. I would expect the vibration issues to be more related to the cone rather than to the bed flexing, though both would contribute some.

    On some other lathes, the headstock spindle extends in a bell housing. This is so that in the event where you may wear out the headstock bearings, you can unbolt the headstock spindle rather than having to take the whole headstock off.

    robo hippy
     
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  15. William Rogers

    William Rogers

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    Well as a Laguna owner I do have a difference of opinion to some of the statements made. We will all defend our lathes when necessary.
    Reed you said the legs splay was too narrow for the 18-36. I don't really agree as it is 2" more than the 3520b. I have never used the McNaughton on my lathe, so no comment. I have however had a 17-3/4" out of round blank on my lathe. I really don't see the cone contributing to at best very minimal vibration. And once the the blank is rounded on the outside and turned I don't see any difference in turning the inside. Just too much mass on the cone to be of any real concern. We all have our opinions and usually different. I have not turned anywhere near the bowls you have, but have been using the Laguna for 6 months and just don't see these problems.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  16. Doug Rasmussen

    Doug Rasmussen

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    The narrator in the video says the bed is welded steel, looks more like cast iron. It has machined pads on both ends so it'd be simple to bolt a bed stiffening bar of steel to the bed, at least on the front side, maybe back side too if it also has pads.. Same with the cast legs, machined pads for wheel mounts could be used to put a bar between the legs on the back side.

    Even if the pads aren't used for stiffening they're a nice feature to make adding DIY accessories to the machine.

    From the video one thing I really didn't care for is the spring loaded spindle lock, a bad idea. Like on 4-1/2" angle grinders, eventually the pin or the hole gets rounded and won't lock after extended use.
     
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  17. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Differences in Lathes are comparable to differences in cars.

    Like cars most lathes will get you where you want to go.
    Like cars they have different capacities and different power.
    Like cars the “better” ones are more pleasant to use.
    And high performance can make the trip faster for good drivers and dangerous for unprepared drivers.

    :) A few are “unsafe at any speed” :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  18. odie

    odie

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    I tried using a sports drink about 1/4 full today, and my impression was my sense of feel (fingers on the bedway) is more sensitive in detecting the vibrations.....been doing this for years, so my sense of touch is much more developed than it was at one time. I wonder if using alcohol (or some other thin liquid) might be better at showing the vibrations.....?

    -----odie-----
     
  19. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Maybe you could try a Margarita in a long stemmed coupe glass. :D

    I would say that your awareness of how to use your senses of fine touch and proprioception are what have evolved over the years. But, as we age, we have a gradual loss of these nerve cells.
     
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  20. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Jon,

    Your real world experience is certainly worth a lot more than my opinion since I haven't actually used a Laguna 2436 lathe. I'll admit that I've been spoiled by my Robust AB.
     

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