G0698 18" X 47" Wood Lathe

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Rich Aldrich, Jan 14, 2010.

  1. Tom Hamilton

    Tom Hamilton

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    laguna 18/47 Hand Wheel Pictures

    Hello Roger,

    I took a couple of pictures of the hand wheel on my Laguna 18/47 both on the spindle and off the spindle so you can see how it goes together. I've attached them.

    I wonder if Laguna changed the spindle in order to add the hand wheel? With it sticking out of the rear of the headstock cover on mine and flush with the cover on yours I think the spindles may be different. It would be a job (and cost) to change the spindle just for a hand wheel.

    Do you have a picture of the spindle with the cover open?

    Tom
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Paul Singer

    Paul Singer

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    Is it possible that there is an adapter attached to the end of the headstock shaft to extend it out through the side.
     
  3. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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    Hand Wheel Pics

    Hi Tom,

    Thanks for the pics! I sent you a return email with some further info on my set up. A little closer look inside your cover might show a flange with a spindle extension. Let me know what you find! Great photography!
     
  4. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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    New info from Grizzly tech support -pulsing at low rpm

    Hello everyone,

    I heard back from Grizzly tech support on the "pulsing at very low rpm" issue that I and another owner have reported to them. The engineers have said that they got the specs wrong, even in the catalog and online.

    They say that the Low rpm specs should be 100 rpm, on the low belt setting, and the high belt setting low rpm spec should be 330 rpm.

    I pressed the tech guy as to why some owners of the Laguna model report no problems with their version, and the reply was that they cannot speak to the machines of other companies, but that this lathe was made to their specs. I then said that even the labeling on the lathe itself is wrong; they said "correct." Even when I asked about the inverter being reprogrammed, the engineers say that is not the problem, it is simply their specs to which the machine is built.

    For me, in the grand scheme of things, this "pulsing at very low rpm" is a mostly minor annoyance, and not a true hindrance to achieving good turning success. Most of my years of experience of turning have taught me that it is very rare to need anything below 100 rpm, and sanding and finishing on my previous lathe was limited to a minimum of 400 rpm, as that was the minimum speed for that lathe.

    Most machines [except Oneway and Robust] are manufactured in China, and I have noticed as of late that there are owners of Jet and Powermatic that are speaking of problems with their machines, so I guess that it is a "try to do the best you can" deal. The other problems are being discussed on "another forum" [runout on a Jet(spindle, bearing issues) and shimming tailstock to align with headstock on a 3520b]

    Grizzly has a return policy, and said they would pay the shipping back to them, but as of now that is not what I want to do. Again, I see this as a very minor annoyance rather than a problem that hinders me in turning projects, as I would most likely have very rare use for less than 100 rpm.

    My bottom line - for me personally, is that I still believe that I have a good machine with good features for a good value. That was what I was looking for when I made my decision to purchase, and what I want for the future is longevity, performance and availability of parts and service in the future if it is needed.

    I hope that my perspective helps any out there that may be considering the purchase of a new lathe, and had this one in mind to look at.:rolleyes:
     
  5. Tom Hamilton

    Tom Hamilton

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    Laguna 18/47 Spindle Pictures

    Hello Roger,

    I've taken a couple more pictures of the spindle with the hand wheel and cover plate removed and attached them to this post.

    The spindle on my Laguna looks to be one piece, you can see in the picture where the groove is cut for the pulley key, that's where two pieces would have to join if there where to be two pieces.

    I've included a picture of the end of the lathe put back together to show how I mounted a pipe with a 1/2" ID using the cover plate screws, I put a swivel light fixture in it. I pretty much have light everywhere I need it while turning.

    Tom
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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    Similar set up

    Tom,

    Thanks for the additional pics. Your set up is similar to mine, and the only difference that I can see in the pictures is that the spindle on yours is longer. that being said, I wonder if your spindle is longer all the way through to your other side where the chuck is mounted, or if it is a 2 piece that is threaded onto the flange with the threaded holes on either side of the spindle.

    I can't tell from the pics if the spindle is threaded on the inside of the center to accept an extension, or if it is a single, longer spindle assembly on the Laguna than is on the Grizzly version.

    I guess Laguna will have to clear this up for me, but your efforts are greatly appreciated, and they do show similarities. I guess I will know later. One question though, did you try to see if the part that the hand wheel screws onto was itself able to be un-threaded off the black flange?

    Thanks again Tom, you've been a great help!
     
  7. Paul Singer

    Paul Singer

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    Roger,

    Could you take a picture of yours with the cover off? I am assuming the black ring that the keyway is in is where the two threaded holes are on yours that was mentioned a while back.
     
  8. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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    Paul, you are correct

    Hi Paul,

    the black ring [flange] has two threaded holes, one on each side of the spindle, and in Tom's picture, the spindle is rotated so that only one of them is showing.

    Do you have the G0698? Are you planning on getting a hand wheel accessory?:rolleyes:

    As far a pics go, I would have to get my son to help me with that and I don't know how soon that would be. My computer skills are minimal at best.

    Now that I take a second look at Tom's pictures, I notice that there is a set screw on top of the flange, and I am wondering if the spindle on his has two parts, the one which connects to the handwheel having a keyway, and locks in place with the set screw? If that is indeed the case, then I could easily adapt that to my Grizzly G0698....
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2010
  9. Tom Hamilton

    Tom Hamilton

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    laguna Spindle

    Hi Roger - The Laguna spindle is one solid piece from one end to the other, neither end screws off. It shows it that way in the Laguna manual and by looking down the hollow spindle it looks that way too.

    The black flange in the picture is the pully. The threaded hole on the face of it is commonly used to screw bolts in to use to push it off of something. The other threaded hole above the key is a set screw for the two stepped pully.

    Tom
     
  10. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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    Thanks Tom,

    That clears this issue up. Maybe in the future, Grizzly will find a solution to help their owners, as did Laguna. Best of luck!:)
     
  11. Paul Singer

    Paul Singer

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    Roger,

    I don't have a G0698 as of yet and it might be a while if what I read is true that they are backlogged till June. Just trying to understand what I am getting into. I am not real happy with Grizzly's answer to the speed question. As you said 100 rpm is probably fine for me but it really looks like it was suppose to go to 0 and because it does not they are back pedaling. I think the lathe is a screaming deal for what it does do but I hate this kind of support. I have heard stories like this from some Jet customers also so what do you do.

    I was wondering if you could make an extension out of wood to bolt to the black flange out beyond the headstock and then make a wooden hand wheel to mount to that. It does not have to take a lot of stress therefore it should hold up as long as it is balanced. Just a thought.


    Paul
     
  12. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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    Wooden hand wheel -

    Hi Paul,

    I think your idea of a turned hand wheel bolted onto the pulley [flange] would be a workable idea. Thanks!

    Grizzly's tech support has been upfront with me, but in this case I think that they could work at bringing their inverter up to what the originally advertised specs were. It seems to me, that they put out a machine, and basically have said "this is what it is, live with it," however I believe that especially since other versions like the Laguna 18/47 have owners who report this "pulsing at very low rpm" is not an issue with their versions; that Grizzly could make the effort and find out a solution, if they would contact the factory, or be willing to make adjustments necessary to bring the specs in line with what was advertised originally.

    They have since talking with me changed the specs to the new ones I referenced on and earlier post. I think it is the tail waging the dog, and perhaps they believe that this is the simplest fix, but I tell you, they are loosing reputation, and frustrating customers.

    In my case, they have hurt themselves, as I have future plans for building a new shop, and I am going to need additional tools. I was interested in a large planner, and some other machines, but now I am having second thoughts.

    I do believe that I have a good lathe for the money, but this problem, albeit, a minor one, I believe is one that is able to have a remedy, if they would only "man up" and do what it takes.

    Our only options should not be to either return the lathe, or live with it!

    HEY GRIZZLY, ARE YOU LISTENING????
     
  13. Bart Leetch

    Bart Leetch

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    I noticed this problem is found below 100 rpm & because I am interested in this lathe I printed out the manual, on page 25 they recommend a speed of 190 rpm for roughing out a 16" bowl if your having trouble below 100 rpm maybe this is the answer. I don't have the answer to this but thought this recommendation interesting. This leaves you with 90 rpm leeway before you hit 100 rpm. So you could still drop the rpm 35-40 rpm & still be at 150 rpm for a 18" bowl It looks like they are recommending a increasing roughing speed variable as the diameter decreases.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2010
  14. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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    Grizzly's recomendations not the issue

    Hi Bart,

    The issue is one of what the lathe was advertised to do, not what they recommend as far as turning speeds. The website and the catalog [pg. 126]had the specs at 0-1200rpm on the low belt setting, and 0-3200 rpm on the high belt setting. The labels on the machine and in the manual say the same thing.

    The lathe "pulses" at very low rpm, and instead of doing what Grizzly has done, and that is go back to the website and change the specs on their page about this lathe, they simply changed the specs to reflect what the tech guys told myself and another owner.

    That leaves us with a choice of 2 options, either return the lathe, or live with it. They could have done what I believe is the correct thing, and worked at getting the inverter, or whatever else might be the cause, [including the fact they said they got the specs wrong,] and make this thing run smooth at low rpm.

    This is mostly an annoyance, because most turners don't get below 100 rpm very often, but some do, and to know that the machine is not operating as it was advertised is a matter that should be fixed. Grizzly needs to "man up" and address this issue, other than just wash their hands by a return of the lathe from those who like me put a new electrical service in my shop just to accomodate the 220 volt this lathe runs off of.

    Grizzly is loosing reputation, and customer trust [imho]. In the realm of the possible, we know that other versions of this lathe, carried by other vendors are not having these issues, according to owners that are posting. So we know that this is fixable, if Grizzly would just do what it takes. The fix might be a new inverter, or reprogramming or something else, but it is a do-able fix.

    I still feel like this is a good machine, with a minor issue, but it should be fixed by Grizzly.
     
  15. Vaughn

    Vaughn

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    In my humble opinion, if the spindle turns, it should not pulse. Grizzly changing their spec does not solve the problem, it ignores it. If they say 100 rpm is the minimum speed, that's the speed at which it should first start turning, not a pulsing 50-something rpm. And from what I've read, it seems there have been reports of pulsing at slightly higher than 100 rpm, too.

    I know you'll get lots of good turning with that lathe as it is, and you don't expect the super-low end speed to be critical, but I do hope that Grizzly finds a real solution and makes it available to the owners. They're a good company, so I suspect they're not really ignoring the problem, just buying time until they get a handle on it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  16. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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    Hello Vaughn,

    I sure hope that you are right about them "buying time until they get a handle on it," because it was my understanding that they were a good company as well, and were very good at resolving customer issues.

    I want to keep this lathe, but I want it to do what they advertised and what it is labeled for and that is 0-1200/3200 rpm. Other versions like the Laguna 18x47 is the same lathe and owners who post said theirs do not have this problem, so in the realm of possibility, there is a fix out there if they would just "man up" and do what it takes.

    I just want the lathe to be what it was advertised to be, and I had to change out the electrical panel box and run new circuits in my shop to be able to power the lathe, so I made a big investment on their advertised specs and this looks to me like something that is a fixable issue.
     
  17. Rick H

    Rick H

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    Lathe

    I notice on all this everyone keeps saying it is the same lathe as the Lugana. Has someone looked to see for sure that the inverter is the same on both lathes. My guess is the lower cost lathe used a cheaper inverter and that is what is causing the problem. Many times they use off the shelf parts, so they have no idea how they are designed to work, they just know if they set it up this way it works in their application. They have no idea what other configurations might work too.
    If they are not the same then I would say to order an inverter and motor for the Lugana and install that on your lathe then it would be the same. Now your lathe will run closer to the one you are comparing it to.
    This is where a lot of us get ourselves in trouble. It looks like something else so it must be as good. Not always true. If it is cheaper, then something is probably different, we just don't let ourselves see it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  18. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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    changing horses[specs] in mid-stream

    Rick,

    Grizzly does have their own specs. The lathe carries the same labels as far as the rpm belt settings as do all the other lathes like this one such as busy bee, Hare & Forbes and Laguna. If Grizzly is going to use the same specs on their labels for the machine, and in the owners manual and on their website and catalog,[until they changed them, after the fact] then they should bring the performance in line with what they advertised; which is what customers like me were counting on.

    Because this issue, according to the ones who posted, who own Busy Bee and Laguna models of this same lathe report that theirs do not have this issue, then we know that this is a fixable problem. Grizzly most likely could bring a fix about, if they were willing to do what it takes, as other vendors have the same version of the lathe and do not have these issues.
     
  19. Bart Leetch

    Bart Leetch

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    In all of this I was reading & a humorous thought popped into my head I remembered Ray Stevens song about the Shriners Bubba your fez is the only one with a propeller on top........& it pulses.:eek::):D


    Busy Bee states speed at Variable Speeds - Low Range: 0-1200 RPM
    High Range: 0-3200 RPM.

    Do we know for a fact their their lathe actually does operate this way?????

    Laguna states speed at Variable Speeds - · Low: 60 - 1200 rpm
    · High: 200- 3200 rpm

    Do we know for a fact their their lathe actually does operate this way?????



    Grizzly ....Speed range high: 330-3200 RPM low: 100-1200 RPM.
    They used to state on line low 0-1200 & high RPM 0-3200 the paper catalog & owners manual state the same. It appears to me that Grizzly either knew what it should be & actually made a printing mistake or someone went out & put it through its paces several times & found out this is the way it actually works.

    Then they went & changed the on line specs to match what they should have been or what they just found out.

    I really want to purchase one of these lathes later this year but this leaves me with some questions in my mind???????????? In fact I am saving up to pay cash, so I really wonder?????

     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  20. n7bsn

    n7bsn

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    Good point, and we probably don't.

    One thing to remember (and this is a result of a discussion I had with the owner of Grizzly)

    Just because a tool "looks" identical, doesn't mean it is. Yes, it is possible that a Busy Bee, a Grizzly and a XXX may all be made in the same factory. But they may be made to different specs.

    They also may not even be made in the same factory. In that area of the world, it is very common for a lot of similar appearing tools to be made, to widely different specs.

    Another point, Busy Bee is NOT Grizzly, yes they appear to be similar, but they may not be. The two firms are owned by brothers, the brother that owns Grizzly has, IMO been more successful then the brother that owns Busy Bee. They also have an agreement, not to see across the border, period. Although quite a number of people in BC, make the short drive to Bellingham to buy at Grizzly

    TTFN
    Ralph
     

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