Green wood to seasoned in one hour!

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by odie, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. steelguy

    steelguy

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    Robert - the problem issues with vacuum systems are always the seals. A vessel on the order of a propane tank may be a good start. The challenge will be getting things in and out of it, and maintaining the seals. Another approach could be to use a severed propane tank as the holding structure - unsealed, but then utilize a vacuum bagging system around the whole tank - similar to the vacuum approach that veneer applicators utilize. This would provide an easier means of mantaining seals. I am not sure that you could apply full vacuum capabilities that way, but it will be a start in the right direction. Here are a couple of links:

    http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm
    http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=17906

    Jerry
     
  2. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Robert, I have seen a few vacuum vessels on eBay -- I'm sure that they are in prime condition. :D

    The better half is from Dixie.
     
  3. Joe Greiner

    Joe Greiner

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    Re-inventing the wheel can be a lot of fun, but an old NASA motto is "Search before research."

    Patent specifications are required to describe procedures available to those "skilled in the art." That can be a nebulous restriction, but as far as I can tell, it includes you, and you, and you.

    Collecting patent documents can be a lot like saving string in a ball. With some organization, it can be managed. And you can thus delegate some of the development work. Commercial limitations apply, of course.
     

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  4. Robert Manning

    Robert Manning member

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    Joe, I'm not charting any new territory here. Vacuum kilns have been used to dry wood for decades. I feel like I have enough information to make this happen, and just need a suitable vessel. After that, it's just a matter of dialing it in as far as temperature, level of vacuum/pressure, and time. I would prefer something longer than a propane tank so I can dry short planks for my segmented work, and that is really the genesis of this endeavor. :cool2: Oh, I just thought of an idea to use the tank halves for the ends on a piece of PVC or homemade fiberglass pipe.

    As for sealing, Jerry, a roll of butyl tape is standard equipment when I do vacuum veneering. It's nice to see that Joe Woodworker still has my compound curve veneered Kayak displayed in his customer gallery.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2010
  5. Bill Fitzgerald

    Bill Fitzgerald

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    micro microwave drying

    I have had good sucess drying bowls & vases via microwave. If any one is interested I willshare what I have learned!!!free!!
     
  6. steelguy

    steelguy

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    vacuum chamber

    Robert- Re: your milk bottle idea. Be very careful, as even partial vacuum can cause serious implosions. I would not mess with glass, unless you can come buy an old laboratory desiccator, which often has a vacuum line port.

    Take a read of the following link. http://www.hyvac.com/Other_items/Safety/implosion.htm

    Jerry
     
  7. Robert Manning

    Robert Manning member

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    Yeah, the flat bottom is structurally unsound.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2010
  8. odie

    odie

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  9. jwtaylor

    jwtaylor

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    Vacuum Kiln Drying for Woodworkers

    For those that are interested there is a small book by Joshua Salesin on this subject by the title of "Vacuum Kiln Drying for Woodworkers". See http://vacuumkilndrying.com/index.html I have a copy and although I have not yet built a kiln I plan to and have been collecting parts. Lots of good information in the book, well worth the cost to me.

    John
     
  10. steelguy

    steelguy

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    Robert - Yes an implosion can ricochet - off of "itself". I would not expect to be able to see any change as the wood dries. Yes, it will lose weight and may distort, but I don't think the benefit of being able to see is worth the risk. Remember the old saying about curiousity and the cat!!!

    Jerry
     
  11. Robert Manning

    Robert Manning member

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    Jerry, I wonder if I might be able to see the vapor come off and perhaps condense on the cool walls of the vessel. I'm not sure my curiosity can be contained, in this instance. I will, however, proceed with caution.
     
  12. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Robert, I have seen a few lab type bell jars on the Internet. The glass is usually around 1/2 inch thick and they have a hemispherical top. Most of them that I have seen are a bit pricey even though they are old and used. I would not consider even for a moment using something like an ordinary jug as a vacuum vessel. You do remember what happened to the curious cat? I enjoy reading your posts and would not want to read about you in the past tense.
     
  13. Vaughn

    Vaughn

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  14. Robert Manning

    Robert Manning member

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    Don't worry, Bill, and thanks for your informative posts as well. You are truly an asset to this forum.

    Those bell jars are the perfect setup with lots of light coming in to inspect your experiment. They're probably designed to withstand a small explosion where they liftoff without breaking until it ricochets off the ceiling and then hits the concrete. Even then it would probably have to land sideways before it would shatter.:cool2:

    Full vacuum is around 15 PSI and a propane tank is 12" diameter. Is there anyone out there who is willing to calculate what thickness of flat plexiglass would have a workable (minimal) deflection on the twelve inch diameter tank at only 15 PSI, assuming that the piece is evenly seated against the tank?

    I know that a twenty inch diameter piece of 3/8" mild steel plate has a deflection of about 1/16" at full vacuum.

    That's funny, no warning for when I slice into that propane tank with an abrasive cutoff wheel?
     
  15. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I meant to ask ... are there still any back row seats available for this event? :D
     
  16. Vaughn

    Vaughn

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    The guys that make meat smokers out of the big propane (or fuel oil) tanks often fill them with soapy water before hitting them with a cutoff wheel. ;)
     
  17. n7bsn

    n7bsn

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    A friend wanted to make one into a bell... we did that very thing before wearing out several wheels cutting the bottom off

    Has great tone, we hung it in the shop, then a tapped it with a hammer, sounded nice. Then he took a mighty swing... when our heads stopped hurting I took the hammer away from him
     
  18. Robert Manning

    Robert Manning member

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    Ralph, was that a five gallon propane tank and what was the wall thickness? Also, what diam. and width cutoff wheel?
     
  19. steelguy

    steelguy

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    Robert - you certainly are determined! Don't believe that you will see vapors. You may see condensate. Depending on the type of vaccum pump you have, the water vapor may play havoc with it.

    Also remember Icarus!
     
  20. n7bsn

    n7bsn

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    Nope, it as large, say 5 ft tall and 2 ft in dia. I don't recall the wall thickness, but we ended up using a 3inch wheel on an air-drive. Tried a bunch-o-stuff, including bi-metal blades on a "destruction" saw
     

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