Hand Sharpening HSS tools on a Belt/Disk sander.

[Colin Nelson]

Hey all,

I have a WEN 6502 sander, and just upgraded my tools (from Harbor Freight $10 tools) to Hurricane Turning HSS tools: 2" & 1" Roughing Gouges, 3/16" Diamond Parting Tool, and 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" Bowl Gouges. The sander has 80 and 240 grit belts.

In my classic desire to do everything the stupid really hard way, and usual lack of budget, I want to learn how to sharpen these without a jig.

Am I headed for shark infested deep waters?

Frankly, I'm too ignorant about angles to know any science about them...I've somehow fumbled through sharpening enough to make the things I've made, but want to do it better.

Next on my tool list is a Scraper, probably a square...

I use the Parting tool for most things besides parting, in my big list of "doing it wrongs", and use a "ring tool" that I made from a screwdriver for disks, rings, and beads.

If I did a live video stream of me turning I'd have to send aspirin along with the web link, to help with all of the headaches I'd cause.

Do you have any tips for my tool sharpening?

Thanks!

 

[Owen Lowe]

Nothing will take the place of doing it yourself, but you may get some good technique instruction from the many YouTube (and AAW) videos on sharpening. Jimmy Clewes, Bonnie Klein and a whole host of others have done them.

If you still have your old HF tools, practice with those. The roughing and parting tools are less of a problem since they don’t use compound movements to sharpen. The bowl gouges require swinging the handle as you rotate so take the most concentration and skill development. You might try practicing the movement several hundred times () with the sander off to get the muscle memory started. After that, mark the bevel with a Sharpie and go very very lightly the first efforts to see how your movements are working.

 

[robo hippy]

One of my more recent videos, all about platform sharpening. I don't know about the particular belt sander you have, but doubt the platform I use will fit it. Not too difficult to make a serviceable one though. I only use the platform for sharpening.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rZ6iR3bbEk


robo hippy

 

[john lucas]

Well I have sharpened using just about everything. I started out on a disc sander. It attached to the outboard side of my Shopsmith. that actually works really well. You can sharpen High Carbon steel tools near the middle where the surface speed is lower so you don't over heat them. Sharpen the HSS tools further out. when an area gets dull on the wheel just move out or in a little. The downside is they don't hold up real well although back then they didn't make the Blue Ceramic discs. I would imagine those work great.
I used a standard 3" hand held belt sander for a while. Worked well except I forgot to remove the cloth dust collector bag and the sparks from the tools burned holes in it. I now have a 1" strip sander that I use for a lot of sharpening, both knives, scissors, and yea some turning tools. Works much better than the small belt sander and it's much quicker to change belts. The one I got is from Lee Valley and you have to add the motor and switch.
Went from those to my old Craftsman 6" 3450 rpm grinder with a gray wheel. That is probably the worst tool I've used for sharpening. I still have it and use it to change the shape of tools with a course wheel but not to sharpen.
Eventually I stepped up to an 8" 1725 rpm grinder and use White aluminum oxide wheel on one side and CBN on the other.
Angles on tools aren't critical. It's nice to have a ball park to know where to start but the more important thing is to be repeatable and even more important than that is to actually get it sharp. This is much easier on things that don't vibrate and chatter like many grinders do. That's why the disc and belt sanders worked so well for me. Hand grinding is great but takes a long time to master. Using one of the jigs such as the Oneway system with the Varigrind really helps you get a good shape and good edge on the tools. I have built homemade versions of the various sharpening jigs and you can find those on Youtube. Not the ones I built but others.
Sounds like your using your tools as scrapers from what you say. Just about anything with an edge will work as a scraper. Just keep the handle higher than the cutting edge and you should be OK. Learning to use bevel rubbing tools will really help you enjoy this hobby.

 

[hockenbery]

I use a jig to sharpen my bowl gouge.
I sharpen all other tools using a platform or handheld with some support.
All on a 8” grinder now equipped with CBN wheels.

I had classes with O’Neil and Ellsworth in which I learned how to hand sharpen the side ground gouge before jigs were available. I was getting ok results hand sharpening but over time the grind would drift and I would have to spend time correcting the grind profile back to where it belonged. When I began using a jig - gouges lasted longer and I was able to use several gouges interchangeably because they would have nearly identical profiles.

A belt sander can be used but be aware they are often more aggressive than a grinding wheel.
Tools won’t last as long and mistakes will take longer to correct.

Look for a working grinder at flea market - used value is pretty low.
You can equip it with a wooden platform for almost nothing and even build jigs for almost nothing.

If you can hook up with a local chapter of AAW there may be some members who can give o some help with hand sharpening. It isn’t too hard.

 

[Mike Johnson]

There is an import sharpening jig designed for a grinder wheel setup that runs about $100.00
This has a jig for both wheels and a holder for sharpening bowl gouges.
Another option is to build your own sharpening jig, there are several videos on YouTube that
cover the design elements for these home built sharpening jigs and the tool holders.

 

[odie]

I like the character I see in your words, Colin.......and, I feel you'll make a great candidate for developing an individualistic style of turning. I can't give much fodder for thought in this thread, because although I did try to sharpen on a belt once, I decided I didn't like that method. (At least not enough to not pursue other methods of sharpening.) Some turners do and like it, though.....and, do it well. If you've got the strength of fortitude (determination!) there's no telling how far you will take this......and, you know the old saying, "it's not the arrow, it's the indian".....!

-----odie-----

 

[Gary Beasley]

Sorby has a belt sander purpose made for sharpening and there are various belt sanding rigs prevalent in the knife making hobby (watch “Forged in Fire”) so you are not off your mark with the direction you are going. The bevels produced may not have the same curve to them depending on what part of the belt you are using but the quality can be just as high as in any other technique.

 

[Richard Coers]

Depends on how much time you want to invest in learning body techniques to hand sharpen. I found it incredibly difficult because I started turning before there was such things as sharpening jigs. You have to learn to anchor your arms, fix your elbow so it won't move, pivot with finger tips, and swinging your hips to move in bigger arcs. You also have to learn to have confidence with your moves. Because if you move the tool to see where you have ground, it's incredibly difficult to put that tool back in the exact previous position to continue where you were. Also sharpening the bowl gouge with the swept back pattern requires a pretty complex rotate and lift combination move. To get grinding low end, make a fixture like the Wolverine from wood. Using unknown steel tools to make turning tools can be dangerous. If the steel is brittle, it can actually shatter into slivers and chunks. That reads as SHRAPNEL! Did that back in the day, so I know from experience!

 

[John Simmons]

I was looking for information in regard to sharpening tools on a belt sander and happened upon this thread.

Sorby has a belt sander purpose made for sharpening and there are various belt sanding rigs prevalent in the knife making hobby (watch “Forged in Fire”) so you are not off your mark with the direction you are going. The bevels produced may not have the same curve to them depending on what part of the belt you are using but the quality can be just as high as in any other technique.

Great video, gives a lot of useful information on sharpening. Good stuff

Here's a link to the video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-nTHpfcwkQ

 

[john lucas]

I have tried most sharpening methods. Here is a video I made on disc sander sharpening. It was the first method I used back when I had a Shopsmith. I did try sharpening on a 3 1/2" belt sander flipped upside down. Worked really well except I forgot to take the dust collector bag off and burned small holes in it. So be aware that sparks can cause a fire. One big advantage of sandpaper sharpening is you can easily pick whatever grit you want and change it pretty quickly. Perhaps not as quickly on a disc sander but belt sanders are very fast. Today I still use a belt sander some and still experimenting. I have a 1" strip sander I build from a kit that I got at Lee Valley tools. I would rate it right behind CBN wheels as far as ease of sharpening. The down side is the paper wears fairly quickly. You can get sandpaper for sanding metal that lasts longer but I haven't found it in the finer grits. Up to about 120, which is still a good grit.
Here is the disc sander sharpening video. I have several other sharpening videos that may help you as well.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCS2zUZvIxE&t=75s

 

[John Simmons]

I have tried most sharpening methods. Here is a video I made on disc sander sharpening. .....

Thanks John. I watched your video on YouTube earlier this afternoon.

I have a Ryobi 3" belt / 4" disc combo sander. My thought was to fabricate a V-Block fixture for gouges and a skew fixture, for skews.

 

[john lucas]

I would forgo the V block and just rig up a good tool rest. Must safer than the V blocks and it takes up a lot less room. You also have to keep adjusting the V block for different tool lengths. For a faceplate you just stick whatever tool it is up there and sharpen it. You can also do grinds you can't do with the V block.

 

[John Torchick]

I have the HF tool set which, for me, serves the purpose. I got a Rikon low speed grinder on sale at Woodcraft and bought the Wolverine setup with the Vari-grind. I use the grinder to start a turning and have moved to a DMT coarse diamond file to touch up the edge. I was surprised how well it works.
Colin, glad to see you interested in turning and those things to make turning a bit easier. Welcome! Haven't had a crawfish boil since I left LA in 1988!

 

[John Simmons]

I would forgo the V block and just rig up a good tool rest. Must safer than the V blocks and it takes up a lot less room. You also have to keep adjusting the V block for different tool lengths. For a faceplate you just stick whatever tool it is up there and sharpen it. You can also do grinds you can't do with the V block.

So do you see value in having the table to hold the angles, or just hold the tool and free hand it?

 

[John Torchick]

Your video is good and makes sense by putting the disk on a chuck. John, how do you sharpen your tools while turning? Do you have two lathes?

 

[john lucas]

I think the table ,or tool.rest is essential. It helps duplicate the tool angles. I love the robo rest. Best tool rest on the market. I can sharpen free hand and often do when lube members show up with tools at our meetings. Not enough time to adjust that particular rest so I just place the bevel on the stone and sharpen it. I do probably take off a little more steel than if I had a jig or tool rest to really nail the angle. You also have to figure I have hundreds of hours of experience.

 

[John Torchick]

You also have to figure I have hundreds of hours of experience.

Didn't think you were that old. I still remember your sharpening demo at Cookeville several years ago.

 

[John Jordan]

Go to the bottom of this page for AAW video on sharpening-it cover the bowl gouge both freehand and with jigs, and other tools as well.
https://www.johnjordanwoodturning.com/articles.html

John