Help me compare the Powermatic 3520B vrs the Robust Liberty

[hockenbery]

Bob,

The ONEWAY banjo Is easy to move with one hand.
It locks in place with a little push and will not move. The little push allows it to be unlocked with a little pull.
The tool post lock is a long handle on a swivel mount so it falls out of the way parallel to the tool post instead of sticking out at 90 degrees to hit a tool handle.
Most other locks are a simple screw or a spring loaded lever you can move around the bolt head.
The tool post won't move when handle is pushed down. The long handle gives leverage.

The locking position of the tool post level can be set in six positions about the clock face if you do 't want it to lock when straight down.can be adjusted.
Changing tool rests is easy - Lift the lever about 90 degrees remove the tool rest. Lift the lever 90 degrees insert the too rest.

The locking lever does not come off by hand

Every other banjo I have used the locking lever will be in the way for some cuts. The solution is to rotate the tool rest and reposition the banjo.
The spring loaded levers can sometimes be moved around the bolt head to be out of the way.
On some banjos there is another hole to screw the locking bolt into. These are things you just deal with when they happen.
It just an inconvenience you don't have with the ONEWAY banjo.

Al

 

[Bob Dupras]

Thanks Al. That's probably the best explanation I've read. It makes perfect sense after looking at the pictures. If I go with the PM, that will be a must have. The banjo on the PM was the biggest difference to me after using the Robust.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have never seen the Oneway banjo up close, but since you have turned on Robust AB lathes as well as your own Oneway, what are the main advantages in the Oneway? I'm just curious and not likely to get a Oneway as I am pleased with what I have.

I do agree that the banjo on the Jet is not something to brag about. While it isn't the worst, it would make the bottom ten list.

On my Robust, the banjo locking lever can go either left or right and only require finger pressure to solidly lock it in place. The wedge lock can be placed on either side so that it is never in the way and solidly locks the tool post with finger pressure only.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I keep hearing about the Oneway banjo. What is it about them that makes them so good? Apparently, they seemed to be preferred over the Robust banjo.

But if you didn't have your Jet, would you still buy the Jet, or would you go for something higher end like the Robust? It's not really a question you need to answer. It still goes back to what Bill said. It all boils down to what I want. Once my requirements are met, everything else is justification.

I have the banjo the jet came with. It's not the greatest to be sure, but plenty acceptable. I've had the funds to buy a vacuum rig, some very nice gouges, extra chucks and other things that I might not otherwise have.

I'd likely buy the Jet again as I've been pleased with it. But hearing the comments about the Oneway banjo makes me want to look into it.

And honestly, the VB is a luxury and really all I'll likely ever need.

 

[hockenbery]

I have never seen the Oneway banjo up close, but since you have turned on Robust AB lathes as well as your own Oneway, what are the main advantages in the Oneway? I'm just curious and not likely to get a Oneway as I am pleased with what I have. I do agree that the banjo on the Jet is not something to brag about. While it isn't the worst, it would make the bottom ten list. On my Robust, the banjo locking lever can go either left or right and only require finger pressure to solidly lock it in place. The wedge lock can be placed on either side so that it is never in the way and solidly locks the tool post with finger pressure only.

The robust banjo has excellent locking levers and is easy to move.

I have two issues when using the Robust that I won't have with the ONEWAY banjo.

The tool post clamping lever does get in the way on some cuts. When it does you can fix it by rotating the tool rest and/or moving the lock position of the handle.
Moving the handle to the other side usually puts it too close to the work for my liking.

It is harder to change tool rests and every once in a while one or both of the wedges will block the hole until you move them out of the way with your finger.
To keep the opening open you have to open the lock an extra turn or two and not hit it or move it while there is no tool rest in the banjo, or it closes or slides and blocks the hole. On the ONEWAY you just lift the handle to open the space and weight of the handle will hold the tool rest in place while you check the height.

The wedge lock is similar to the lock on the early powermatic 3520a. It locks great but makes changing the tool rest a bit of a bother.

Al

 

[Bill Boehme]

Thanks for the description. Those are nice features and if somebody had a low performing banjo, it might be worth considering. The nuances of dealing with the wedge lock becomes almost unnoticeable after a while and I automatically do things like spin the lever an extra turn when changing rests. I have a Steve Sinner tool rest that I hardly ever remove as I consider it the best there is because it allows me to drop the tool handle as low as I please.

BTW, the US made Powermatic was not the A model, it was the original model that didn't have a revision letter. I think that it was when WMH acquired Powermatic that the production was moved overseas and some "value engineering" was done.

 

[john lucas]

The Banjo on the Oneway is one of the things I don't like when I demo. It locks extremely positive with a light touch but I always seem to have to strain to unlock it. On the Robust lathes I haven't noticed that. 2 fingers to lock and 2 fingers to unlock.
One feature I like about the Powermatic is the Variable frequency drive won't start if something is blocking the spindle from turning. I've accidentally left my index pin in a few times on my aftermarket indexer and the simply won't start. I think it may even shut off with a really big catch but I haven't had a catch that big in so long I don't remember. It's a setting that you (the factory, not you) can set the sensitivity. When I turned on a DVR the setting was too low and I could lock up the lathe with a large cut. Most annoying. Haven't had that happen on my Powermatic. When I installed an aftermarket VFD on my Nova 3000 I played with that setting and it's pretty cool.

 

[hockenbery]

Thanks for the description. Those are nice features and if somebody had a low performing banjo, it might be worth considering. The nuances of dealing with the wedge lock becomes almost unnoticeable after a while and I automatically do things like spin the lever an extra turn when changing rests. I have a Steve Sinner tool rest that I hardly ever remove as I consider it the best there is because it allows me to drop the tool handle as low as I please. BTW, the US made Powermatic was not the A model, it was the original model that didn't have a revision letter. I think that it was when WMH acquired Powermatic that the production was moved overseas and some "value engineering" was done.

These workarounds become almost automatic like tapping the short tool rest clamps on the wood fast or powermatic banjos.
If you haven't used a ONEWAY banjo a lot you wouldn't even notice.
Reminds me of a cheap rental we had a few years ago that had crank windows. We started asking ourselves "what's wrong with us that we are complaining about the crank windows"

The woodfast was my primary lathe for many years. It is fine machine in many respect with many quirks. Owners learn to adapt to the "adequate banjo" and to use the knockout bar on the tail stock centers. It is just part of the process.

It is worth noting that banjos require periodic maintenance to function well
Most of them have a locking rod that passes though a ring. This should be sprayed with ballistol or WD40 and slid from end to end a few times to clean and lubricate it.
Also the contact area with the ways needs lubricant and the locking plated under the ways need to be lubricated and the ways cleaned. I do this when ever I am cleaning the ways. Ballistol lasts about a week for me. Wd40 a day or 2.
I never lubricate the tool post of the tool rest locking clamps. The nuts on the locking plate need to be adjusted from time to time.

 

[Bob Dupras]

Well, I've pretty much made up my mind. I'm going with the PM. It's purely a financial decision between the PM & Liberty for me. And I'm just a hobby turner, and I give away much more than I sell. The PM will do more than I expect I'll ever ask it to do. And so would the Liberty. I do plan on getting at least a few Robust tool rests along with a Oneway banjo. I addition, I'm going to get the 18" bed extension so I can do some larger platters.

This has been a very informative shopping trip for me. Again, I want to thank everyone who helped me with information, and letting me bend their ear in person, and on the phone.

 

[robo hippy]

I have heard that there is going to be a 3520C at the Pittsburgh symposium, so you may want to investigate that.

As for ease of sliding the headstocks, static balance is the issue. I think the Robust moves more easily than the PM because it is better balanced, with the PM being more heavy on the back side. Not sure if it is possible to make one that will balance out perfectly. The motor would have to be set up above the headstock or on the end. Jet tried to get around this with the 16 inch model, and their 14 inch model by putting the motor on backwards with the intake being right in the line of fire for dust, and it stuck out past the face of the headstock.

The Robust does have an extra wire that keeps the lathe from turning on if the spindle lock is even a little bit engaged. I had to call up Brent once to figure out why my Beauty wouldn't turn on....

For banjos, I think both the tool rest lock, and the banjo lock handles should be like bench vise handles. A T shape, where the top of the T is a loose bar that can slide to either side. I believe Oneway solved this by putting the handle on a hinge.

robo hippy

 

[Bob Dupras]

I have heard that there is going to be a 3520C at the Pittsburgh symposium, so you may want to investigate that.

robo hippy

This is the 2nd time I've seen something regarding the 3520C. Since I'm in no real hurry, I think I'll at least try & see if there's a review of it from Pittsburg before I pull the trigger on the 3520B. I've been told CSUSA will be having a Powermatic sale during the symposium. So if it is true, I'll probably skip the sale if the added features are worth waiting for.

 

[Dean Center]

This is the 2nd time I've seen something regarding the 3520C. Since I'm in no real hurry, I think I'll at least try & see if there's a review of it from Pittsburg before I pull the trigger on the 3520B. I've been told CSUSA will be having a Powermatic sale during the symposium. So if it is true, I'll probably skip the sale if the added features are worth waiting for.

If you're looking for a deal, Craft Supplies is selling the 3520s used for demos at the Utah Symposium last month at a discount. Assuming they still have any.

 

[Bob Dupras]

If you're looking for a deal, Craft Supplies is selling the 3520s used for demos at the Utah Symposium last month at a discount. Assuming they still have any.

They don't have any. I checked last week. Plus, you have to pay freight on the demo machines. It's a good deal if you can pick one up. I think they take 20% off the demo units. But the normal sales are 15% off with free shipping.

 

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

Bob - there's a 3520B up for sale down here in Houston. Not too bad of a drive from LR.

 

[Bob Dupras]

Bob - there's a 3520B up for sale down here in Houston. Not too bad of a drive from LR.

Thanks Shawn! Can you PM me the details? That could be a possibility. I have to be in San Marcos later this month.

 

[Lou Kinsey]

Bob, there's one for sale in Memphis TN. It's listed in the Want Ads by Jeff