Hollowing system boring bars

[William Rogers]

I have the Hope hollowing system. I have the 3/4" bars straight and bent that are great. I can use carbide or HSS scrapers. I also have the Hope 5/8" bar that only uses the carbide cutters. These cutters seem very aggressive, most likely caused by my inexperience. The carbide cutters are attached to a smaller ss bar and inserted into the 5/8" bar. I ended up bending both the straight and curved cutter insert bars. I've straightened them best I could, but most likely not as good as new. So I'm considering the Trent Bosch 5/8" boring bars with the HSS scrapers. I believe these will work in my system. Thinking about getting all 3, straight, curved and extreme curved. I intend to do some practice today on an open bowl with the cutters I have. Are there other boring bar options? Those that use Trent's, how are they?

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

I’ve used Trent’s straight and slight curved 3/4” bars on Al’s recommendation to use with hope system and they are solid. I’ve hollowed 11” deep on end grain dry mesquite with no problem. I just got his 3 set 5/8” cutters but I haven’t tried them yet. They look as solid as the 3/4, no room for them to bend.

 

[George Guadiane]

I have the Hope hollowing system. I have the 3/4" bars straight and bent that are great. I can use carbide or HSS scrapers. I also have the Hope 5/8" bar that only uses the carbide cutters. These cutters seem very aggressive, most likely caused by my inexperience. The carbide cutters are attached to a smaller ss bar and inserted into the 5/8" bar. I ended up bending both the straight and curved cutter insert bars. I've straightened them best I could, but most likely not as good as new. So I'm considering the Trent Bosch 5/8" boring bars with the HSS scrapers. I believe these will work in my system. Thinking about getting all 3, straight, curved and extreme curved. I intend to do some practice today on an open bowl with the cutters I have. Are there other boring bar options? Those that use Trent's, how are they?

It might help if you included some pictures of your problem.
I had a Monster articulated hollowing system, they had a long bar with variable/exchangeable ends that held different cutters...
I was able to bend all of them, knocking some of them out completely.
My solution was to use long bars for each of the tools. In that way, you get the uninterrupted strength of the bar from one end to the other.
I use the Rolly Munro articulated hollowers because they fit through the smallest openings. They clog sometimes and they have a bit of a learning curve, but they are well worth the effort (and the expense in my opinion).

 

[hockenbery]

I use the Bosch 3/4” bars with the HSS cutters. they are great.
I certainly recommend them.
However there are many good options out there and they all work well for somebody.

You might consider not ordering the extreme bent tool unless you plan to turn wide flat tops.
It is sort of a specialty tool that you can add later. You may never design a form that needs it.
If you have a sort of spherical top the the bent tool will reach everywhere.

The Jordan bars are similar except they use a set screw to hold the cutters.
The Bosch cutters are held in with CA glue. I like the CA better.

1. I have never had a CA tip come loose in use. ( I did see a CA glued tip come loose in a demo when too much heat was created from a dull tool.)
2. CA Tips take a few more minutes to replace. Heat the tip to remove it, clean out the hole, wait 5 minutes for thick CA to set.
3. I have had a set screw tip come loose.
4. I have lost count of the set screws I have lost but I buy them by the dozen.
5. I never owned a set screw that I did not strip out the socket in a year or two.

 

[Mike Brazeau]

Have a look at Lyle Jamieson's website and the adaptation of the No. 1 Hunter Tool that he sells. Can be adapted to most any system. A much more controlled cut than a teardrop scrapper with a better resulting surface. Does a beautiful job on wet, dry whether you are rough hollowing or looking for a finished surface. I have a home made system based on Lyle's design and have had this cutter for 8 or 9 years. I also mount the 3/16" bar with the No. 1 Hunter in a piece of 1/2" or 5/8" cold rolled steel with a handle for doing the interior of boxes etc. There are some photos of mine in Tools & Jigs at link below.

 

[Richard Coers]

Maybe you can put a swivel tip on what you have and put in a small 3/16" HSS cutter. If you want to buy new, John Jordan is a good place to look. http://www.johnjordanwoodturning.com/John_Jordan_Woodturning/Tools_and_More.html

 

[Glenn Lefley]

Have a look at Lyle Jamieson's website and the adaptation of the No. 1 Hunter Tool that he sells. Can be adapted to most any system. A much more controlled cut than a teardrop scrapper with a better resulting surface. Does a beautiful job on wet, dry whether you are rough hollowing or looking for a finished surface. I have a home made system based on Lyle's design and have had this cutter for 8 or 9 years. I also mount the 3/16" bar with the No. 1 Hunter in a piece of 1/2" or 5/8" cold rolled steel with a handle for doing the interior of boxes etc. There are some photos of mine in Tools & Jigs at link below.

No link below?

 

[Mike Brazeau]

No link below?

Should be there on everyone of my posts. Shows on mine. Www.picturetrail.com/mikebrazeau

 

[William Rogers]

It might help if you included some pictures of your problem.

Had a good day today and have a better understanding of my hollowing bar. I mounted the small bowl and set up the system. I should have done this from the start to see how the cutters worked. This time I rotated the cutter about 10 degrees counterclockwise. Before the cutter was much closer to level.
I was able to cut easily and no catches. I took the thickness down to about 0.150" without any problems. I cut from the center bottom to the top that I believe is the way Lyle indicated in the article Al provided. For me there is always a center nub that has been a pain to get rid of. So I rotated the cuter clockwise and easily removed the nub. I just worked just the nub area at the bottom.
So I believe my cutters are fine, but may add the bent cutter from Bosch as my curved is not as good as his bent.

For some reason I had a huge mental block when I installed the cutter the other day. I believe for some reason I just inserted it to where the set screw relief was at the end of the bar instead of pushing it fully into the bar. This definitely added to bending of the insert. This picture should explain. You can see three or four witness marks from the set screw. There should just be two. How embarrassing.

Inserted properly there isn't much of the insert extended. The attached file shows the improper insert mounting. I did straighten my cutters and now they both fully insert into the bar.

I did use my scrapper and only rotated it slightly and that also worked well.

 

[Richard Coers]

Maybe you were hollowing a long grain vessel, but most commonly it's end grain. You should be practicing with the grain in the same orientation to understand what happened before. That cutter is hanging out there a TON!. I'd extend the flat and cut off the shank of the holder if the bar isn't bored deeply enough.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Had a good day today and have a better understanding of my hollowing bar. I mounted the small bowl and set up the system. I should have done this from the start to see how the cutters worked. This time I rotated the cutter about 10 degrees counterclockwise. Before the cutter was much closer to level.
View attachment 24300 I was able to cut easily and no catches. I took the thickness down to about 0.150" without any problems. I cut from the center bottom to the top that I believe is the way Lyle indicated in the article Al provided. For me there is always a center nub that has been a pain to get rid of. So I rotated the cuter clockwise and easily removed the nub. I just worked just the nub area at the bottom.
So I believe my cutters are fine, but may add the bent cutter from Bosch as my curved is not as good as his bent.

For some reason I had a huge mental block when I installed the cutter the other day. I believe for some reason I just inserted it to where the set screw relief was at the end of the bar instead of pushing it fully into the bar. This definitely added to bending of the insert. This picture should explain. You can see three or four witness marks from the set screw. There should just be two. How embarrassing.
View attachment 24298
Inserted properly there isn't much of the insert extended. The attached file shows the improper insert mounting. I did straighten my cutters and now they both fully insert into the bar.

I did use my scrapper and only rotated it slightly and that also worked well.

We all have mental blocks, as I get older, I have them more often! Glad you could figure it out. Aloha

 

[john lucas]

that style cutter used with the top flat is a catch waiting to happen. As you found out tilting it to the side will work much better. Ideally it is still a bevel rubbing tool and if you push it straight in it will try to self feed and run backwards in the opposite direction of the cupped side. Think 90 degrees to the wood surface in that example. The bevel is about 82 degrees so if you swing the handle to the right and about 8 degrees the tool will be very controllable and take a nice cut. For hollowing you will find it much easier if you pre drill a center hole. The when you start the cut even if you have the handle straight out it will just sort of naturally cut across at an 8 degree angle following it's bevel and not catch. Going up and down the side of the vessel it is not on the bevel but will function very much like a scraper. It won't take large cuts this way but will clean up the sides very well.

 

[William Rogers]

that style cutter used with the top flat is a catch waiting to happen.

How true that is John. I watched your videos and with Al's help that helped me in figuring out what I was doing wrong.

We all have mental blocks, as I get older, I have them more often!

Thanks Emiliano, I thought it was just me.

That cutter is hanging out there a TON!. I'd extend the flat and cut off the shank of the holder if the bar isn't bored deeply enough.

Richard the attached photo is the improper installation. I think what happened was that the rear set screw was not backed out far enough and I hit that thinking it was a stop. The bar is bored deep enough and the cutter goes into it quite a bit without much overhang. It was operator error.

I really appreciate the help here and have confidence I can easily hollow with this system. Doing the open bowl help in seeing how the cutters worked.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

that style cutter used with the top flat is a catch waiting to happen. As you found out tilting it to the side will work much better. Ideally it is still a bevel rubbing tool and if you push it straight in it will try to self feed and run backwards in the opposite direction of the cupped side. Think 90 degrees to the wood surface in that example. The bevel is about 82 degrees so if you swing the handle to the right and about 8 degrees the tool will be very controllable and take a nice cut. For hollowing you will find it much easier if you pre drill a center hole. The when you start the cut even if you have the handle straight out it will just sort of naturally cut across at an 8 degree angle following it's bevel and not catch. Going up and down the side of the vessel it is not on the bevel but will function very much like a scraper. It won't take large cuts this way but will clean up the sides very well.

I will be using it soon, I just got another Urn commission, and its perfect for that... I will keep in mind your advice John. Greatly appreciated. Aloha

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I will be using it soon, I just got another Urn commission, and its perfect for that... I will keep in mind your advice John. Greatly appreciated. Aloha

Sorry, wrong thread, lol

 

[William Rogers]

Sorry, wrong thread, lol

Mental block?????

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Mental block?????

LOL, I participate in so many that sometimes I dont know where I am...

 

[Dennis Weiner]

I use a little bit of this and that. I originally bought my hollowing system from infinity systems at aaw providence ri in 2002. They are out of business but It’s very similar to the Jamison system except double retaining bar is longer and has two posts one in the center and one on the end. I use a second oneway bango on my 2436 instead of the stock bango. The 2 combined gives me extraordinary angular reach which I use for my donut like shapes(no holes lol) my D bar excepts 3/4” bars. This made it adaptable to many of the bars mentioned. At some point, I bought the Jamison 1 1/16 diameter bar and his swivel holder that accepted 3/16” HSS. I did well and created many pieces but none exceeding 15 inches deep. A few years ago I bought the Jamison-hunter 6mm cutter and was very satisfied. The finish that it provides is excellent providing you understand the tool. There is an article that Lyle wrote in Aaw December 2011 page 21 that explains the full use of the tool.
Since then is a pleasure to hollow. So relaxing.

I had a wish to make larger hollow forms, but with the back of the oneway two feet from the wall it was impossible to get a 60 inch bar system to work in that space.

I am currently looking for a nice long log because I came up with a solution.

I figured that the maximum vase that I could turn on my oneway is 28 inches with my space limitation.
This can be done in stages with various size boring bars. My first bar was 3/4 Andre Martel hook tool barb which accepts the 3/8 Jamison swivel. I can hollow with it 5 or 6 inches deep. Next, I have to assemble the 1 1/16 Jamison bar with the bar placed in the hollow form first, the connect to the d handle. That setup will take it down to 10/12 inches. Tool rest is now removed and the new equipment which I bought from Keith Clark at aaw Kansas City this summer is put on the bed. The part is his cross bar with a 12 inch fulcrum that will go inside the hollow form similar to a tool rest but it’s a cylinder that houses 1 1/4 boring bar and fits and feels as tight as a piston! The cross bar and fulcrum are attached The same way. The fulcrum glides across the supporting cross bar which was made 24” across.
So the third boring bar from Clark is 22” long and connects with a 3/4” interface bar to my existing d bar. The cutter holder has a 3/4 to 3/8 interface, so I can use my Jamison swiveled cutter. Finally I can bore to 18 inches, then to final depth with the Clark 32” boring bar which I bought as well.
I tested the bar with the 12” fulcrum 25” out it and it cut cleanly without any vibration. At 28 inches out there was some vibration, but with light cuts it was insignificant. So, this is all my boring bar parifinalia.
One exception, i made a 3/4 articulated boring bar holder for Jamison, tear drop cuter and all the legacy cutters. I may saw off my 2 Exocets and put them to work with these 1 1/4 bars.
Jamison 3/8 => 3/4

Custom machined 3/4 tool holder
Note: fulcrum is pointing away from work in this picture.