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Hot motor!

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The motor on my Jet 1236 is getting hot under very little load (though at the upper range of speed). Very hot to the touch. Not detecting any burning smell, and it starts up fine. Is there anything that's supposed to be lubed? or other maintenance? Only thing I've done recently is blow out the area of the Reeves drive, getting sawdust and such out. TIA.
 

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I don't believe there is any way to oil the motor on that lathe but could be wrong. I know the 1/2hp motor on many Jet mini lathes get very hot to the touch.
 
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internal fan?

The motor on my Jet 1236 is getting hot under very little load (though at the upper range of speed). Very hot to the touch. Not detecting any burning smell, and it starts up fine. Is there anything that's supposed to be lubed? or other maintenance? Only thing I've done recently is blow out the area of the Reeves drive, getting sawdust and such out. TIA.



Jamie,

No idea about that motor but some have an internal fan. It takes very little build up to radically decrease the amount of air a fan moves. The build up can be more of an issue at high speed than low. No idea how to go about cleaning the fan on your motor if it has one. My new Grizzly has a motor that looks just like the one on some of the Jets and that fan is pretty easy to access. Hopefully somebody familiar with your machine will chime in if this seems like it might be the issue. Reminds me how many fans I need to clean, starting with my ceiling fans!

An afterthought: These motors do run on the warm side anyway. Could it be something you just hadn't noticed before?

Hu
 
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I don't believe there is any way to oil the motor on that lathe but could be wrong. I know the 1/2hp motor on many Jet mini lathes get very hot to the touch.

Nah, John, you're never wrong.:) Knowing that the mini's run hot is comforting. I've wondered if there is any bearing problem with this lathe -- nothing really crazy-noisy like I've heard with a car's wheel bearing or a drill or router, but something kinda rhythmic and odd. Don't think, even if it's real, that it'd be enough to make the motor heat up.
 
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Jamie,

No idea about that motor but some have an internal fan. It takes very little build up to radically decrease the amount of air a fan moves. The build up can be more of an issue at high speed than low. No idea how to go about cleaning the fan on your motor if it has one. My new Grizzly has a motor that looks just like the one on some of the Jets and that fan is pretty easy to access. Hopefully somebody familiar with your machine will chime in if this seems like it might be the issue. Reminds me how many fans I need to clean, starting with my ceiling fans!

An afterthought: These motors do run on the warm side anyway. Could it be something you just hadn't noticed before?

Hu

Thanks, Hu. Yesterday, I took the cover off the fan-end (yes, it's a TEFC motor) and took the compressor hose to it, but it looked very clean anyway (unlike my husband's PC's innards, which I tried to clean out Monday but not so successful). Thanks for the +1 on the motors running "warm." Yes, it could be that I'd just noticed it, mainly because it's only been recently that I've been running it at the top two speeds of the Reeves drive.
 
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The motor on my Jet 1236 is getting hot under very little load (though at the upper range of speed). Very hot to the touch. Not detecting any burning smell, and it starts up fine. Is there anything that's supposed to be lubed? or other maintenance? Only thing I've done recently is blow out the area of the Reeves drive, getting sawdust and such out. TIA.

The steps I would go through are to disconnect the belt from the motor to the lathe pulleys. Run the motor for a while and check how warm it is. If the motor is fine, it should be barely warm. Do the spindle areas at the headstock get overly warm? While the belt is detatched, hand-spin the spindle to test it’s free movement and smoothness. It should rotate pretty easily. Lastly, if the belts are too tightly tensioned, that will definitely cause the motor to get hot to the touch.

Maintenance on motors these days is, practically speaking, nonexistent; bearings are usually sealed and just replaced as they wear out. BTW, bearings usually get really sloppy and freewheeling as they age then progress through increased grinding/growling sounds and finally seizing completely. If your bearings are nearing their life span then you should have noticed growling sounds before and along with nearing the seizing up conditions and increased resistance against rotating (i.e. heat).
 
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The steps I would go through are to disconnect the belt from the motor to the lathe pulleys. Run the motor for a while and check how warm it is. If the motor is fine, it should be barely warm. Do the spindle areas at the headstock get overly warm? While the belt is detatched, hand-spin the spindle to test it’s free movement and smoothness. It should rotate pretty easily. Lastly, if the belts are too tightly tensioned, that will definitely cause the motor to get hot to the touch.

Maintenance on motors these days is, practically speaking, nonexistent; bearings are usually sealed and just replaced as they wear out. BTW, bearings usually get really sloppy and freewheeling as they age then progress through increased grinding/growling sounds and finally seizing completely. If your bearings are nearing their life span then you should have noticed growling sounds before and along with nearing the seizing up conditions and increased resistance against rotating (i.e. heat).

Hey Owen, I should have thought of disconnecting the belt, but I've only been in the shop sporadically this week, mind is otherwise occupied.:p The spindle area can get warm, but not strikingly so. There is a squeak when I hand-turn it, been ignoring that. Also, I hadn't thought of checking the belt tension, will do so. I don't have a handwheel, so spinning the spindle is a bit of a pain, especially when the chuck's not on there, but a test without the belt is well worth doing. Thanks!
 
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Link belt?

BTW, as long as I'm slipping the belt off, do link belts work on Reeve's drive pulley set-up, or not because of the way those interlocked sides work? I have an extra hanging on the wall.
 

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I shouldn't use a pronoun when I didn't make clear the "it" that I had in mind. Since you had mentioned cleaning the dust out of the Reeves drive, I think that this would be a good time to grease the moving parts of the Reeves drive which would mean the spindle and the motor shaft where the moving halves of the pulleys slide. In the case of my Delta lathe, that also included the yoke, rack and spur gear, and follower cam that are all connected to the speed control lever. The Jet probably has something roughly equivalent. Any mechanical parts of the speed control that slide, rotate, or have gears should be cleaned and greased ... not oiled. Grease mixes with dust and grit and turns into mud or dries out which helps to make Reeves drives high maintenance items. So if it seems like you just cleaned and lubed it a few days ago, it is probably past time to do it again. :rolleyes:

Those little half horse motors can get blistering hot if you work them hard. Especially when they're loafing along doing nothing but spinning they get pretty warm after an extended period. This is because they aren't very efficient so a lot of electrical energy just turns into heat. It's easy to do do some fault isolation if you suspect that something isn't quite right ... just remove the drive belt and let the motor run to see how warm it gets. Then replace the belt and let the lathe run for the same length of time to see if the motor runs hotter. Don't forget to let the motor cool to room temperature between runs.
 
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I shouldn't use a pronoun when I didn't make clear the "it" that I had in mind. Since you had mentioned cleaning the dust out of the Reeves drive, I think that this would be a good time to grease the moving parts of the Reeves drive which would mean the spindle and the motor shaft where the moving halves of the pulleys slide. In the case of my Delta lathe, that also included the yoke, rack and spur gear, and follower cam that are all connected to the speed control lever. The Jet probably has something roughly equivalent. Any mechanical parts of the speed control that slide, rotate, or have gears should be cleaned and greased ... not oiled. Grease mixes with dust and grit and turns into mud or dries out which helps to make Reeves drives high maintenance items. So if it seems like you just cleaned and lubed it a few days ago, it is probably past time to do it again. :rolleyes:
I finally found my Lathe Fundamentals book, goes through maintenance (though zero-nada about Reeves drives:(). Peters recommends white lithium grease for the pulleys and a couple other parts, dry lube for some. I like dry lube -- any idea why it's not recommended for the pulleys? I'll have to pick up the white lithium, don't think there's any in the cupboard.

Those little half horse motors can get blistering hot if you work them hard. Especially when they're loafing along doing nothing but spinning they get pretty warm after an extended period. This is because they aren't very efficient so a lot of electrical energy just turns into heat. It's easy to do do some fault isolation if you suspect that something isn't quite right ... just remove the drive belt and let the motor run to see how warm it gets. Then replace the belt and let the lathe run for the same length of time to see if the motor runs hotter. Don't forget to let the motor cool to room temperature between runs.
Ah hah. OK, very reassuring. I'll still test it, but I bet this heat-thing is cropping up now because I'm just recently using the two top speeds and running it for longer periods of time than previously.
 
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Belt tension??

I checked the belt tension today -- took off the cover and measured the deflection in one direction at the lowest speed and the highest speed, dead center between the pulleys using one finger for pressure. It deflects 1/4" at the lowest speed , and 1/2" at the highest speed. Belt is not frayed or cracked (or flipped over a la Odie's lathe:)).
  • Don't know what "normal" is
  • Don't see an obvious way to change the tension
  • Somewhat surprising the belt doesn't come off at highest speed.:D

AOK? Not?
 
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Bill Boehme

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... Ah hah. OK, very reassuring. I'll still test it, but I bet this heat-thing is cropping up now because I'm just recently using the two top speeds and running it for longer periods of time than previously.

It is also possible that the capacitor is beginning to fail. If it is running, but you're not doing any heavy turning the motor should get very warm maybe even hot after an extended period, but not too hot to keep your hand on it. If you think that it is hotter than it ought to be then it might be worth replacing the capacitor. Here is a thread that I ran across about the motor on the Jet 1236 from several years ago.
 

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BTW, as long as I'm slipping the belt off, do link belts work on Reeve's drive pulley set-up, or not because of the way those interlocked sides work? I have an extra hanging on the wall.

I checked the belt tension today -- took off the cover and measured the deflection in one direction at the lowest speed and the highest speed, dead center between the pulleys using one finger for pressure. It deflects 1/4" at the lowest speed , and 1/2" at the highest speed. Belt is not frayed or cracked (or flipped over a la Odie's lathe:)).
  • Don't know what "normal" is
  • Don't see an obvious way to change the tension
  • Somewhat surprising the belt doesn't come off at highest speed.:D

AOK? Not?

With a Reeves drive, the tension is determined entirely by the spring force on the motor pulley, speed setting, and the belt length. Therefore use the specified belt. My experience has been that Reeves drive belts on woodturning lathes have a much shorter lifespan that belts on fixed width pulleys. I would vote against using link belts. They are OK for some uses, but their best use is as a temporary replacement when you don't have a spare on hand. On Reeves drives the link belts are especially bad because the have too much stretch. When you change the length of the belt on a Reeves drive, it changes the speed of the spindle. Speed regulation on a Reeves drive lathes is bad enough without adding a stretchy belt to the equation (I'm talking about the cheap kind on modern woodturning lathes, not some of the well built old iron). The springiness of the belt plus the pulley spring set up a sustained feedback loop that results in speed flutter. This flutter wears out the sliding pulley on the motor shaft.

I have Fenner link belts on my drill press. I tolerate them because I don't use the drill press much and I am too frugal to spend the few dollars required for the right size A-section belts.
 
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With a Reeves drive, the tension is determined entirely by the spring force on the motor pulley, speed setting, and the belt length. Therefore use the specified belt. [Snip] On Reeves drives the link belts are especially bad because the have too much stretch. [Snip]

OK, no link belt, was just curious since it's just sitting around. Sounds like I probably ought to order a new belt, even if it's just for backup. eReplacements.com has one listed for the 1236, assuming the white 1236's are the same as the old blue ones, or I could run down to the auto parts store. The belt that's on there is the original no doubt, but the lathe probably has less than 100 hours on it, I'm really the only one who's used it since it was new. It'll be interesting to compare this one to a new one and see how much stretch there is.
 
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It is also possible that the capacitor is beginning to fail. If it is running, but you're not doing any heavy turning the motor should get very warm maybe even hot after an extended period, but not too hot to keep your hand on it. If you think that it is hotter than it ought to be then it might be worth replacing the capacitor. Here is a thread that I ran across about the motor on the Jet 1236 from several years ago.

Well, thank heavens I'm not having those problems! Informative thread though, and I'll see if I can ID those set screws and make sure they're tight. So Bill, is white lithium grease the hot ticket? Any opinion on dry lube?
 

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I used molybdenum disulfide grease ... great stuff ... great for turning everything black and greasy. It penetrates into metal parts and stays there. I think of white lithium grease as something to lubricate slow moving things like patio door tracks and rollers, the screw on a garage door opener, hinges, tailgate hinges and door hinges on my truck, and pivots on squeaky office chairs.
 
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Subscribed, as my old green/blue Jet 1236 gets a hot motor as well.

Edit: Ooops, I missed the word "subscribed" -- I get it now. I'm less worried than I was, but have to ask, is yours giving you any trouble besides running hot? Have been turning a little last couple of days, everything is fine except the wrist I sprained opening up the collapsed Reeves pulley to re-install the belt.:p Next time I'll put a spacer in there. Also, a question for you: If you bought your lathe new, what kind of belt did it come with? (Auto-type or something else?)
 
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Edit: Ooops, I missed the word "subscribed" -- I get it now. I'm less worried than I was, but have to ask, is yours giving you any trouble besides running hot? Have been turning a little last couple of days, everything is fine except the wrist I sprained opening up the collapsed Reeves pulley to re-install the belt.:p Next time I'll put a spacer in there. Also, a question for you: If you bought your lathe new, what kind of belt did it come with? (Auto-type or something else?)

No other problems other than the motor gets hot. The lathe does need a bit of lubing from time to time when the pulleys refuse to go into their highest speed setting (for pen turning & finishing).

The lathe still has it's original belt. I check it for cracks and fraying when it's lube time, and it looks fine.

My 1236 is a blue/green one, and was purchased new back in the 1990's. I have a large ambrosia maple blank (about 11x11x4) that's still pretty green and I'm a bit leery on spinning that up due to motor strain and that 550 is the lathe's slowest RPM.
 
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No other problems other than the motor gets hot. The lathe does need a bit of lubing from time to time when the pulleys refuse to go into their highest speed setting (for pen turning & finishing).

The lathe still has it's original belt. I check it for cracks and fraying when it's lube time, and it looks fine.

My 1236 is a blue/green one, and was purchased new back in the 1990's. I have a large ambrosia maple blank (about 11x11x4) that's still pretty green and I'm a bit leery on spinning that up due to motor strain and that 550 is the lathe's slowest RPM.

What's your choice for lube, John? I was surprised to see nothing in the owner's manual about that type of maintenance (or any maintenance, really).:confused: This week, I've been turning a different speeds, and checking the motor periodically. It's really the top two speeds that lean toward heating it up, and I'm thinking it's just that the little fan is undersized for its job at those two speeds. So, from now on I'll turn the motor off when I don't actually have tool to wood (e.g., instead of letting it run when I quickly hone a tool with a diamond card). Re: your maple blank, if you knock off the corners and it's pretty well balanced, would that make the 550 rpm OK?
 

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.... This week, I've been turning a different speeds, and checking the motor periodically. It's really the top two speeds that lean toward heating it up, and I'm thinking it's just that the little fan is undersized for its job at those two speeds. ....

The motor always runs at the same speed regardless of what the spindle speed might be. However, if you are putting a larger load on the motor at a particular spindle speed then, yes, the motor will be hotter at that speed.
 

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..... what kind of belt did it come with? (Auto-type or something else?)

The belts that I have seen for woodturning lathes with Reeves pulleys use ordinary ½" width raw edged belts. That is the most commonly used size with small electric and gasoline motors so an auto parts store would probably have what you need. According to an engineering handbook that I checked, Reeves drives typically use a special belt that has a flatter profile than regular belts and is double wrapped. If you have a riding mower that might be the kind of belt you will find installed on it although a newer design on some mowers uses a notched belt that almost looks like a chain drive.
 

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...... So, from now on I'll turn the motor off when I don't actually have tool to wood (e.g., instead of letting it run when I quickly hone a tool with a diamond card).....

One more thought ... I think that the fan is OK. The ducted shroud around the fan directs the air over the exterior of the motor and that is typical air flow for a TEFC motor (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled). In order to get the most cooling, the air flow across the motor needs to be "laminar". Laminar air flow means that it is smooth without anything that would create turbulence. The things that you should check for which could limit the air blowing across the exterior of the motor would be shavings piling on and around the motor as well as dust that accumulates inside the fan shroud. Those things can significantly reduce the air flow even if it is just a small amount of dust and shavings. Jet didn't do the greatest job as far as isolating the motor from shavings is concerned, but it's far better than my Jet mini where the motor is directly under the ways where shavings quickly pile up.

I would be in favor of letting the lathe run because I think that the fan cooling benefit is better than the amount of heat generated while idling. If the drive had a lot of friction somewhere that was making the motor work hard even while not turning then it's hard to say which is better.
 
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The belts that I have seen for woodturning lathes with Reeves pulleys use ordinary ½" width raw edged belts. That is the most commonly used size with small electric and gasoline motors so an auto parts store would probably have what you need. According to an engineering handbook that I checked, Reeves drives typically use a special belt that has a flatter profile than regular belts and is double wrapped. If you have a riding mower that might be the kind of belt you will find installed on it although a newer design on some mowers uses a notched belt that almost looks like a chain drive.

Bill, If I'm reading that statement correctly, you're saying that the belts you've seen on Reeves-type lathes are not equivalent to the "special belts" that the handbook describes. I'm curious about the special, flatter and double-wrapped belts (only the best for my ol' Jet:D)
 
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One more thought ... I think that the fan is OK. The ducted shroud around the fan directs the air over the exterior of the motor and that is typical air flow for a TEFC motor (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled). In order to get the most cooling, the air flow across the motor needs to be "laminar". Laminar air flow means that it is smooth without anything that would create turbulence. The things that you should check for which could limit the air blowing across the exterior of the motor would be shavings piling on and around the motor as well as dust that accumulates inside the fan shroud. Those things can significantly reduce the air flow even if it is just a small amount of dust and shavings. Jet didn't do the greatest job as far as isolating the motor from shavings is concerned, but it's far better than my Jet mini where the motor is directly under the ways where shavings quickly pile up.

Nothing interfering with the laminar flow, and the inside was quite clean.

I would be in favor of letting the lathe run because I think that the fan cooling benefit is better than the amount of heat generated while idling. If the drive had a lot of friction somewhere that was making the motor work hard even while not turning then it's hard to say which is better.

Idling? That's confusing....it's either on or off. Could be that I need to lube something to take some of the load off. Can't seem to get more than a half-hour/day in the shop this week.:p
 
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By idling I mean not under load.

I meant to post a picture. Here is the new type of belt used on Reeves drivwes: http://texasbelting.com/products/gates-5230v662


Here is the variable speed wrapped belt: http://www.directindustry.com/prod/...roduct-14262-1432703.html#product-item_758597

Bill, The belt in the first link works on a Reeves drive? Is it rigid so it does not fit down into the groove? Looks like that for a mini lathe would almost cost what the lathe does.
 

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Bill, The belt in the first link works on a Reeves drive? Is it rigid so it does not fit down into the groove? Looks like that for a mini lathe would almost cost what the lathe does.

Yes, that first one would be for BIG machines with big pulleys. They are also used on something called snowmobiles ... whatever snow might be. :rolleyes: The basic idea in the design is that it flexes more easily than the wrapped belt. The wrapped belts are supposedly better than the raw edge belt because don't get jammed when the pulley halves close together. I think that the wrapping is some sort of aramid fiber material.
 
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What's your choice for lube, John? I was surprised to see nothing in the owner's manual about that type of maintenance (or any maintenance, really).:confused: This week, I've been turning a different speeds, and checking the motor periodically. It's really the top two speeds that lean toward heating it up, and I'm thinking it's just that the little fan is undersized for its job at those two speeds. So, from now on I'll turn the motor off when I don't actually have tool to wood (e.g., instead of letting it run when I quickly hone a tool with a diamond card). Re: your maple blank, if you knock off the corners and it's pretty well balanced, would that make the 550 rpm OK?

I'm using some sort of franken-lube that my son got from where he worked in a factory. It might not be the correct stuff to use, but it seems to do a good job. I don't have a lot of it left, so new lube will be on my hunt list before too long.

I'm kind of surprised that your motor heats up at the highest speeds--the motor's RPM is constant, it's the ratio of the pulleys that determined the lathe RPM.

As for the maple blank, it's got kind of a funky shape. I can cut it round on the bandsaw no problem. Still concerned about the motor load, and probably the bearings.
 
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I'm using some sort of franken-lube that my son got from where he worked in a factory. It might not be the correct stuff to use, but it seems to do a good job. I don't have a lot of it left, so new lube will be on my hunt list before too long.

I'm kind of surprised that your motor heats up at the highest speeds--the motor's RPM is constant, it's the ratio of the pulleys that determined the lathe RPM.

As for the maple blank, it's got kind of a funky shape. I can cut it round on the bandsaw no problem. Still concerned about the motor load, and probably the bearings.

Yep, the 1236's bearings don't have a sterling reputation.:p But then again, I guess they're not all that difficult or expensive to replace.:rolleyes: I'll have to break down and lube (if I can figure out all the parts are that Bill listed, may not be equivalent in my lathe, but at least I'll do the shafts the pulleys ride on and anything else that's seems to move and is accessible). I think I'll go with white lithium to start. If it doesn't seem to last, will go to something more gross.
 
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