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I'd like your opinions on captured hollowing rigs

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With my new 3520b comes new possibilities, so I'm finally in the market for a deep hollowing rig. I have the right hollowing tools to get the job done by hand, and I even picked up a new Rolly Munro hollower at the symposium that I have yet to learn. However, I really need a captured system to do some of the work and take some of the beating. My neck and back can only take so much.

I am looking at the Elbo tool and the Lyle Jamieson rig, but am certainly open to suggestions. I really like the compact storage size of the Elbo. I saw both demonstrated in Albuquerque, and didn't see much difference in performance. I'd be interested to hear about the quality/differences of laser systems.

I'm also wondering, how necessary would a hollow form steady be if I'm intending to stick to forms not much bigger than 12"h x 8"w to 7"h x 12"w?

Thanks for your help :)
 

Bill Boehme

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I have seen both tools being used and my opinion is that the elbo tool is for light duty stuff such as you would do on a mini lathe. The Jamison rig is certainly much more robust for doing turnings that are more in line with the size of your lathe. If you are taking a beating when hollowing then your technique could possibly be the reason.
 
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If you are taking a beating when hollowing then your technique could possibly be the reason.

It doesn't take much to give me a beating. My neck (nerve, bone, and muscle) are in very bad shape, and my back isn't much better. Pretty much any prolonged repetitive motion or posture can give me problems. I just think a captured rig would allow me more time on the lathe and less stress on the body. Although, I have less than a dozen hollow forms under my belt, so I'm sure my technique has miles to improve.
 
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the wider the turning, or farther from the center, the more torque comes into play

you might want to stick with 4 to 5 inch wide hollow forms, the height of 6 to 7 inches is what i saw in richmond, not sure what size the albuquerque instant gallery mostly had

also the space to display in most people's homes is a major factor
 
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the wider the turning, or farther from the center, the more torque comes into play

you might want to stick with 4 to 5 inch wide hollow forms, the height of 6 to 7 inches is what i saw in richmond, not sure what size the albuquerque instant gallery mostly had

also the space to display in most people's homes is a major factor

The size is necessary to accommodate cremated remains. The volume usually averages around 180 cubic inches, but can range widely. The rule is 1 cubic inch per pound.

Sorry if that seemed a bit morbid.

I am concerned with the torque that a 10" wide form would put on the Elbo tool, and if the tailstock clamp is enough to control it.

The bigger systems just look like such a pain to have to keep adjusting, and storing them doesn't look easy either. Maybe it's not as bad as it seems?
 
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I have been very pleased with both of the full-size systems from Monster Lathe Tools, and I've always been happy about the personal service from Randy:

http://www.monster-wood-tool.com/wst_page6.html

This page has both an articulated arm setup and a d-bar setup. Which one are you referring to? If you have the articulated setup, then I have a couple questions. How does Monster's articulated arm compare to the Elbo tool? The way it mounts to it's own holder looks much more secure than Elbo's tailstock clamp, especially for rotational force. Do you think that setup would perform well enough for the size forms I want to turn?

Thanks for your help!
 
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Have read some complaints about the various laser systems vibrating too much to be useful. I find the laser set up on Randy's Monster articulated system to pretty stable and very helpful. Even after hollowing a piece "by hand", I sometimes use the monster with laser to get a nice, uniform wall thickness and give it a smooth clean-up finish cut.
 
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Hollower

I made my own "D" captured rig and it does rather well up to 20". I have 1" and 1-1/4" boring bars for that depth, but use a bushing to drop to 3/4" on smaller stuff so I can use my Jordan bars, and made a bar to take the Hunter rigs I made. I also made up a tool holder to take 1/2" and 3/8" to use shop-made Ellsworth style tools.

I am, however, saving my sheckles for one of Al Crandall's Kobra articulated system, which is, I have no question, the finest hollowing rig on the market. Unfortunately Al and his pard only make them custom-to-order and they're off now for the Summer.
 

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I am concerned with the torque that a 10" wide form would put on the Elbo tool, and if the tailstock clamp is enough to control it.

the elbo tool will handle 10 wide form, the problem is tearout after about 8" deep,
we are all perfectionist to some degree and tearout is a problem with other system as well, it depends on your skill

the elbo tool does require a larger opening than some, but for an urn it is no problem, here is an unfinished urn upside down with pvc threaded opening
 

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Monster

Charlie if price is not a concern I would vote for the monster solid bar system. I have a good friend who does 24" high x 12" wide vase style hollow forms on a 3520 and loves the Monster. The articulating arm monster system has limitations on size,12" high x 8 wide is pushing it. G
 

john lucas

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I also made my own Jamieson style rig. I made the lazar from the design in American Woodturner about 3 or 4 years ago. It does vibrate but works well enough to hollow quite thin.
If you use curved bars such as the John Jordan style bars there won't be any torque cutting the larger diameters. If the cutter is aligned with the center line of the shaft the there isn't any more torque than a straight cutter as long as the tool rest is on the straight part of the bar.
What you do have a problem with is tool overhang. When you start getting deep inside a vessel, whether it's straight in with a straight bar or to the left hollowing a wide vessel with curved bar, you get vibration. Larger bars = less vibration and can go deeper or further out.
I also think Randy's Monster tool rig is an excellent rig, as well as the Kobra. That being said my homemade rig has worked pretty well and only needs some minor modifications to be really decent.
 
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This page has both an articulated arm setup and a d-bar setup. Which one are you referring to? If you have the articulated setup, then I have a couple questions. How does Monster's articulated arm compare to the Elbo tool? The way it mounts to it's own holder looks much more secure than Elbo's tailstock clamp, especially for rotational force. Do you think that setup would perform well enough for the size forms I want to turn?

Thanks for your help!

Have read some complaints about the various laser systems vibrating too much to be useful. I find the laser set up on Randy's Monster articulated system to pretty stable and very helpful. Even after hollowing a piece "by hand", I sometimes use the monster with laser to get a nice, uniform wall thickness and give it a smooth clean-up finish cut.

I only have the articulated setup and have made several pieces larger than those that you are interested in making, Charles... I do use the Rolly Munro tool with the setup and am delighted with the combination, AND, I have been more than pleased with the laser system, overall... I will note that it is a LITTLE problematic to adjust, but all things considered, I can only compliment Randy on his design and craftsmanship.
I don't have the room to use that "D" handled tool in my shop, so I may be a little more inspired to make the articulated setup work than others might be.
 
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This page has both an articulated arm setup and a d-bar setup. Which one are you referring to? If you have the articulated setup, then I have a couple questions. How does Monster's articulated arm compare to the Elbo tool? The way it mounts to it's own holder looks much more secure than Elbo's tailstock clamp, especially for rotational force. Do you think that setup would perform well enough for the size forms I want to turn?

Thanks for your help!

Charles, I have both the captured arm and the articulated arm. Of the two, I'd say the articulated arm is my favorite. It's very smooth and easier to reposition the rig than the captured arm, especially when entering the vessel at a sharp angle to work on the inside of the top and shoulder with a straight boring bar. It's also very easy to set up. The fact that the base is not attached to the tailstock is a plus to me, since it allows a much bigger variety of mounting angles. I have found that at times when I start getting some vibration on deep cuts, a slight repositioning of the arm can get rid of the problem. I've not used the Elbo, so this is strictly my perception of the difference.

I've done pieces in the size ranges you're talking about, and the Monster handles them well. Once you start getting past about 10" or so deep, pretty much any brand of 3/4" boring bar will start getting a bit wobbly. If you're regularly going 12" deep, you might look into a 1" boring bar, but it can still be made to mount to pretty much any rig if it has a 5/8" shank.

One of the things I've liked about the Monster rigs is that they come complete with a variety of tool holders and bits. You can also use other brands of cutters and accessories, but Randy sells a full and flexible setup ready to go out of the box.

[Disclaimer: I consider Randy to be a friend of mine. I have a bought a lot of his tools; I'm not a paid endorser. Just a very satisfied customer.]
 
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Thanks to you all for your input. It is greatly appreciated :D

I think I just might be sold on the articulated Monster system. It seems to be what I was looking for in the Elbo tool, but with the strength to accomplish what I need. I wasn't even aware of that tool before. I thought Monster only did the d-bar setup. I'm glad I asked.

After doing some research on it I've found the laser system has some pretty good reviews, so that's a bonus too!
 
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Charles,
I do not think you will be disappointed with the Monster Articulated Hollower. At Albuquerque after Randy got his table set up I just touched the hollower and my next step was to reach for my wallet and purchase one. My only addition was to purchase separate bases for the different lathes that I use.
Bill
 
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I'm real pleased with my Jamieson system. Lyle is also a pleasure to deal with. His DVD on his captured system may be something you want to check out - very informative as well as full instructions for its use.

Lyle is big on making turning fun and his system helps keep it fun

He is also always improving his system - different cutters are available as well as bigger bars.
 
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Charles, I just received my Monster articulated hollowing rig from Randy last week.

I purchased it because of all the good reviews I have seen. While I have not used it yet I can tell you if it works half as well as it is built it will have been worth the money. If you need to go a little deeper Randy does sell a 1" bar that his tooling will fit in.

Good Luck

Alan
 
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I have a Monster system, and love it. I had an adapter made for it so I could use my McNaughton cutters in it. I found the 3/4 inch ones just too long for the system, or at least I think that is the problem. I get a lot of vibration with the long ones. Short arms, and long bar are just too many levers working all at once. The 5/8 inch bars are no problem. If I am doing a larger form, I will rough hollow it with the McNaughton tools by hand, and do the finish work with a carbide disc. You can go 8 inches deep without too much trouble, but going deeper than that takes a very light touch. The articulated systems really make hollowing easy. Well, easier anyway.
robo hippy
 
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Charles I do have both of Randy's monsters. They both have places where they excel but I do love the articulating arm unit. Very easy to use and move around.
 
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Donald Derry system

No one mentioned Donald Derry's system? Simple, robust and easy to use. Pick up an ornament turner while you are at it and have a blast. Donald also does seminars on how to use his system-great artist and all around guy. Another system to look for-may be hard to find is a Kobra. The Kobra is a very robust hollowing system however, it may take some patience to get one as they have a very limited production schedule. One other thing to know, is that if you are getting into hollowing, you either need to make or purchase some sort of steady rest system-a lot of different designs. If you are handy with a welder you can make one.
 
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I'll second the vote on the Don Derry lightening hollower. Quick setup and very easy to get up and running. Limit on the Lightening Hollower is about 9" with the standard bar. He has a 5/8" bar now that goes a bit deeper.

While I don't have the monster articulated arm, I like that it's mounted to the bed. And may venture down that road some day. I'm not thrilled with the elbo tool mounting to the tailstock.

Venturing down the extreme deep hollowing world is what Frand Sudol used. Basically it is a oversized Jamieson system. Bar weighs in about 100lbs.

Another option for extreme deep hollowing is the Keith Clark system which I use. That system goes 20+ inches depending on the wood of course. I like it for my quest in going deep. Also his steady rest is top notch as well.

Scott (tool junky...but it's ok, the first step is recognizing you have a problem) :D
 
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I bought the monster rig and it is not great came in with a bad bearing, Finish was ok, paint wasn't even close to my lathe next time I would just get white, but that is not a big deal. It was missing part of the order I never got. My main issue is they are to busy to warrantee the bad parts and he told me live with it. Also I ordered his handles came in not the way I wanted and they do not fit Thompson guages basically got a SOL. I tried to return everything an he would not, even though it was new in box. Now his new page states a 25% minium restock fee and you have to have a RMA he would not issue me a RMA. Between that and seeing some tips snap off from another member of our club I would stay away from this system till he gets things straightened out. I think he was starting to get to much stuff back. Also there have been some law suits agents him I don't see the company around for long the way they are going. As for the good reviews I tried posting my experience on other boards and he has some supporters and they got deleted. I won't say where but do your research.

On the up side it does look nice and I know allot of people had luck with it, There are some short comings but they are easily corrected. I knew that going in and I still bought it. Depth is also limited because of his design and he will not sell extensions, I don't blame him, it's a safety thing. In my case I just didn't get a good set up out of the box.

I herd good things about the Jamison set up may try that next.
 
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You might want to contact him again. I think he is a good bussiness person and will correct any problems his tools might have.

Return/Refund Policy

All Monster Lathe Tools and Accessories are manufactured by Superior Design & Machine and are warranted to the original buyer for one full year from date of purchase. We will repair or replace any items that do not meet with your expectations. Please note that this warranty does not cover lasers, cutter bits, scrapers, or sanding pads. All returns for refunds are subject to a minimum of a 25% restocking fee, depending on the amount of usage of the tool. Shipping costs are non-refundable.

No returns or credits will be allowed without first obtaining a Returned Merchandise Authorization (RMA) number. If you have a problem with any of our products, please contact us first via either of these methods:

E-mail:
 
R

Ron Sardo

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Jason has been making the rounds among the forums.

Randy already returned Jason's money and told him to keep the tools.
 
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He only returned money for the handles after allot of feedback and I tried to send them back to him to be fair but he refused and said he would refuse any packages from me, so they are still sitting new because I can't use them.

I also bought a complete hollowing system that he did not send the complete because he didn't have all the parts and some he forgot, that is fine he can send them when he gets them but it also had other issues. He then stated he would not return anything or ever want me to contact him again. So I never got a complete system I paid for and he will not warrantee anything, since the system has some issues this is where the tension is. I tried to send him several nice email but he seems stubborn and told me never to contact him again. I really would just like to work things out it is a couple minor issues but if he would talk I can't.

I did post on another forum but it got deleted because several people jumped in and it turned ugly, kind of snowballed agent’s monster. So I posted here. I only want to post the facts. Because like many people I did my research before buying and looking for bad feed back and good, purchased and found out later that all the negative feedback gets deleted. The internet should be an open place to post good and bad things. If one side is getting posted and the other deleted it is not fair to anyone, in fact that is censorship and I thought there was a little thing called free speech. If threads stir up bad issues simply close the thread, don't delete the content.
 
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Jason,
If you are not going to use the handles you might consider donating them to an AAW affiliated turning club that has a youth program. Something that helps young people get interesting in woodturning. Am sure they would appreciate it. Just a thought.
 
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I donate stuff all the time, I teach woodworking, for free to highschool students, trying to keep the craft going. Give stater wood turners my old tools, in fact I have to stop that I keep on gaving away tools I can use later but I replaced most of my old tools now with thompsons tools and I am trying hard to hang on to them. I am also a volunteer EMT and Firefigher. Actually today I did a fundraiser today for the Special Olympics where we raised about 40k by pulling 727 plain accross a runway at newark airport, fun takes about 10 people to pull a plain I found out. Another bit of useless knowldge.
 
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Jason,
I am suprised to hear about your experience with Monster Tools because I recently bought a hollowing rig and I found him to be very helpful and pleasant before, during and after my purchase by answering any questions I had about the tool. I even bought a indexing tool along with the hollowing rig which i had many questions about. He always seemed to have time to answer them in a professional manner. He even contacted me a couple times from date of purchase until it shipped letting me know the status (he was back logged with orders and could not ship right away but he told me that upfront when I ordered it).
When the tool arrived everything appeared to be there and looks like a great system. To be fair about it I have not set it up yet to use it so i can not comment on the preformance yet. Just stating my experience so far has been very good.

I think you should be allowed to post your experience good or bad on these forums because they are what lead me and others to purchase tools and hollowing systems in the first place. I posted my questions on the forums and pm'd members about tools and rigs capabilities etc- before making up my mind to purchase them. This is why these sites are so valuable to me - the experince of others and their opinions.

Truthfully, I would simply not participate in a forum that would delete my comments about something i was critiquing (which i have done). A crtique is simply my opinion on the tool or matter being discussed and should be open for discussion and comments freely without being retaliated agaisnt by deleting my comments. That being said, this is probably why i only follow a couple forums (AAW and Family Woodworking).
 
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Monster rig

Well here is my story about the monster articulating arm hollowing system: I purchased a used system from a friend in my wood turning club. He was buying bigger and I wanted a hollowing system. I used it for 3 hollow forms I was very pleased with it.
I wanted to buy a swan neck tool from Randy at Monster Tools, So I called him we talked about what I wanted, I sent him pictures of my system, Now remember it is used and worn some. He took a look at the pictures and told me to send him the whole thing and he would redo it for the price of the swan neck bar.
Today I received it back in under two weeks. It is brand NEW!!! All new boring bars holders bits parts the works!!!
I can not say enough how pleased I am with his service and generosity to do this for me. I have never meet him or dealt with him in the past. I would not hesitate to recommend him in the future!! He is a terrific person and business man! Thanks Randy,and Monster Tools.

George Morris
 
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That is grate wish I had that experance. I never even received the compleat hollowing system I paid for and what I received doesn't work well. I guess it depends if he likes you I probably asked to many questions before buying. Hopefully he is changing for the better.
 
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I received my articulated hollowing rig right after the AAW symposium. Before I ordered I had called and e-mailed Randy Privet several times with questions from payment questions to the capabilities of the unit. He answered all of my questions in a very nice, frank, manner. He told me at the time of order that it would be at least 4 weeks if not 5 weeks because he was getting ready for the symposium. After he had gotten back from the symposium he called me and told me the unit had shipped and ask if I would please call him to insure that it had gotten to me OK. When I received the unit all was well except he had included the wrong T-nut for my lathe. I called him the day after I received the unit and let him know that I received the wrong T-nut. He was very apologetic and said he would ship the correct one out that day. 2 days later I received the correct part.

The product that I received was very well made. Having been a machinist for a number of years I can assure you that I would not produce that rig for the price he chargers. I have used the unit a couple of times since and can say that what I was told of its capabilities was exactly what I received and what I found to be in its use.

I have had no other dealings with Randy Privet other than this. I have never met him and have no friendships with him. I am pretty much a nobody. He treated me with respect and the way that I expect to be treated. Even when there was a problem it was corrected without incidence.

I had read the threads that Mr. Lambert had started on a couple of the other sites. I did not post in those threads but did follow them. For me his post on the first site was very hard to follow and was confusing as to what he exactly wanted or expected. I could understand how he might have not gotten what he wanted because of the content of his post. The threads took a very sour note from their inception and believe they were probably deleted for that reason. The way the first thread read to me was it was not a really a critique but an attempt at a compliant thread to see what kind of reaction it could bring from other members. I can tell you the reaction was not very good with most of the post favoring Randy Privet.

I have had a positive experience with Randy Privet and will more than likely do business with him again. From my experience I can recommend his unit to someone looking for a nice rig to do moderate depth forms.

I really have no dog in this hunt other than I was a witness to what was written and my interpretation of what was written. I am really sorry for the troubles that Mr. Lambert has had and hope that he finds what he is looking for.

Sincerely,

Alan
 
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Good post Alan, and typical of virtually everyone's (with one exception) experience with Monster Wood Turning Tools. Might be time to just let it go.
 
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Alan,
I totally agree with what you said, I cannot even begin to believe anything that Mr. Lambert said and in his initial rant it sounded to me like he wanted Randy to give him something that Randy didn't even make. My tools from Randy have exceeded all my expectations of said tools.
Bill
 
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I see it as a plea for help but Jason it's sad the fact is no one really cares about what happened. Replace the bearing on your own and find another place to get a handle, everything will be fine. If you have any problem with the tools you bought from me I'll take care of it. I did talk to a guy last week who has plans for the next generation hollowing system but I don't know the details.
 
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First, I'd like to thank everyone for their input to help me make this decision. This has been an extremely helpful thread. Not just to me, but I'm sure to others as well.

Second, about my dealings with Randy Privett and Monster Lathe Tools. After deciding on the MAP-HD setup (the articulated hollower), and having a multitude of questions answered, I went ahead and placed my order about a month ago. I rec'd a "thank you for your business" email from Randy last Wed. with a set of instructions and shipping information. The setup showed up on Sat., and of course I had to immediately unpack and assemble it. My first impression was absolute awe (Now I understand, Bill). I have had the pleasure of working for some tool snobs that had massive debt due to their "start-up costs," and this ranks or beats any tool I've ever used. The engineering, and especially the machining, are second to none. I have now had a chance to try it out. I roughed out a 9"w x 4"h form from wet Box elder, and it performed flawlessly once I had it adjusted and positioned properly. Though, it was a bit jumpy before that (centering issues), and I tightened down the arms a teeny bit. I spoke to Randy yesterday, and let him know I rec'd it and was happy. He was very friendly, and answered what questions I had left. I will do business with him again. I am not so easy to please, but he has one extremely happy customer to add to his many others.

Third, and I'm kicking myself knowing who I might be defending, but Mr. Lambert, free speech just doesn't work that way. I'm sorry, but Constitutional misconceptions shouldn't be left to dangle. Aside from that, I'm sorry that you weren't happy with Randy's service, but speaking as a pest of a customer to him, I can assure you that he'll go out of his way to do business with someone that treats him right.

I would apologize for the length, but hey, it's my thread and I'm happy :p
 
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It's all good....

Just wanted to make a mention of our positive experience in doing business with Randy. We bought the Monster MAP-HD and in our dealings Randy was frank about the wait time and more than helpful in answering a couple questions. I had also mentioned an optional tool handle during our phone conversation. When the Hollowing system did arrive, all was in good order - nice fit and finish - right down to matching the babypoop yellow color of the Powermatic 3520 AND a tool handle was included - no charge, perhaps for the wait?!!! We were only too pleased to write and thank him for the extra tool handle and of course to tell him how much we like this tool. Would not hesitate to purchase from him again. The Monster Map-HD is superb for our purposes.
 
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