JET 1221vs Alignment

Discussion in 'Newbie' started by David Gilliland, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. David Gilliland

    David Gilliland

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    Hi all, first post here. I'm a relatively new wood turner. I started on an old grizzly mini lathe handed down to me, and recently upgraded to a JET 1222vs.

    Out of the box, the headstock and tail stock of the JET are not perfectly aligned horizontally (please see attached pic).
    Lathe Alignment.jpg

    I've reached out to JET and they've told me to "shim the bolts" or file down the tail stock. I'm not really comfortable filing a brand new piece of equipment with my limited experience, and I'm still working on getting shims so haven't tried that yet. I'm wondering if:

    a) Should I expect perfect alignment out of the box, and if so, should I be pushing JET to fix the issue rather than trying to implement their recommendations?
    b) Is the amount of misalignment shown in the photo significant enough to be a concern? I'm definitely getting a lot more vibration on this machine compared to the Grizzly, which is making it hard to get a smooth finish on my cuts, but I don't know if the alignment or another issue with my setup is causing this.

    Thanks for any wisdom you can impart on this newbie!
     
  2. Regis Galbach

    Regis Galbach

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    I think the vibration would bother me more than that aliignment. If you are doing spindle work that alignment may cause a problem. For bowls, platters, and hollow forms I don't see that as an issue.
    Hopefully someone has tips on the vibration.

    Regis
     
  3. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Welcome to the AAW forum, David.

    I wouldn't be too concerned about something that small. It looks pretty good to me. Besides, matching points only tells you half the story... it tells you the radial misalignment, but doesn't tell you anything about angular misalignment. For turning between centers, perfect alignment is meaningless because the spindle is rotating about its own axis ... an analogy would be an automobile drive shaft with a universal joint at each end.

    I don't understand Jet's response since you said that the misalignment was horizontal and not vertical. There is generally enough lateral play in the tailstock to zero out misalignment if you haven't tried that yet.

    As Regis said, the vibration is a much greater concern. Could you describe the vibration in a little more detail? With the lathe running and nothing mounted on the spindle, is it something that is audible or is something that is felt? How is it affected by speed? Remove the belt to see if it is still a problem with only the motor running. Use a dial indicator to measure the runout on the spindle to see if it might be bent ... it's rare, but my first lathe had a bent spindle.
     
  4. Owen Lowe

    Owen Lowe

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    I don’t have this lathe so may be way off base. A thought on vibration and misalignment… when you take firm hold of the spindle and the hand wheel, can you feel any movement whatsoever by twisting in opposing directions? I noticed in pics of the lathe that the headstock appears bolted to the bed. It may be ever-so-slightly loose. The misalignment could be the result of the headstock sitting canted a touch. Hopefully this one check will solve both issues.
     
  5. David Gilliland

    David Gilliland

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    Thanks for the quick reply guys! I will look in to the other items RE: vibration and hope to get back to you guys soon with some updates.

    I do not have a bench I can bolt the lathe to, so I have it bolted to a piece of plywood which I then have clamped to the bench. This is not ideal I know, but it's my best option at this point.

    So far it sounds like the group consensus is that the small misalignment is not a big enough deal for me to raise a stink with JET, and I will focus on looking in to these other issues that may be causing the vibration.

    Thanks again!
     
  6. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    If after looking at the items Bill suggested. Also tighten all bolts. Then if no results is the piece you are turning very unbalanced, if so that is something you can partly get by doing a better job of centering the workpiece.
     
  7. David Gilliland

    David Gilliland

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    Bill, thanks for your detailed list of tests. I listened to the motor/drive system and felt the bed with my hand under numerous different operating scenarios. I tested:
    - Spindle in
    - Spindle out
    - Belt detached
    - Workpiece attached

    To me there is vibration in the bed that I can easily feel with my hands across all speed ranges and all situations. The vibration is much less without the belt attached, and not surprisingly is worst with the workpiece mounted.

    There also seem to be some strange noises coming from either the motor or bearings or...something else? It comes and goes and seems much more prevalent when the belt is actually connected. Maybe I'm just being paranoid but I took a number of short videos which I've uploaded to the link below. If you're willing to take a gander and let me know how it sounds to you, I'd really appreciate it.

    Thanks!
    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngBCq-UDIT36JzxEwwdHRJ_F4hFYVpwJ
     
  8. Regis Galbach

    Regis Galbach

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    Mine is not quite that loud but mine is also on wood cabinet although it is bolted solid. I can't tell if there is vibration in yours but, I do hear the bearings.
    I occasionally have to remind myself that mine doesn't run like the $3500++ lathes that some of the folks here have.
    Regis
     
  9. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    The random noise you are getting may be from the bearings or the thin ribbed belt.
    Depending on the RPM of the individual components turning you could be getting
    vibrations and noise that resonate at those speeds. You might check the set screws
    on the motor drive pulley and the spindle pulley to make sure they are secured. Many
    of the off shore bearings being made these days are of questionable quality. Most of
    the imported industrial equipment our company commissions require the bearings to
    be replaced before we can get them running to specs. You could use a dial indicator
    to check the run out on a straight piece of round stock chucked up on your lathe. There
    are a number of video's on YouTube that explain the process of checking run out on a lathe.
    Another simple solution for aligning the center points is to loosen the (4) mounting bolts
    of the head stock and align the (2) points and then tighten the mounting bolts as you watch
    the alignment of the two points. But this can also throw the alignment off of the head stock
    and the lathe ways. On a precision machine you would level and align the head stock first
    using shims so that the spindle is centered and aligned on the lathe ways and then address
    any alignment issues with the tail stock.
     
  10. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    On the two videos that are titled "spindle in" and "spindle out" (actually the spindle is the rotating element of the headstock, the piece that plugs into the Morse taper socket of the spindle is the the drive spur), I hear a lot of bearing noise. With the belt removed, grab the spindle nose or at the handwheel and see if there's any radial or axial free play. If I'm not mistaken, the axial play can be taken out by adjusting how far the handwheel is screwed on. You can check the bearings by turning the spindle by hand (belt removed, of course) and carefully listening for any slight ticking or other noise. Bearings in good condition ought to be quiet. Next, give the spindle a quick spin by hand to see if there is any noise such as a rattle or growl.
     
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  11. Regis Galbach

    Regis Galbach

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    David, I just did the test procedures listed above and learned something about my 1221 and really didn't finds any problem that I could hear. BUT, I did quiet mine down. Every time I have moved the belt, I had put lot of pressure on the lever to put tension on the belt. Well, I tried with just light-to-moderate pressure and it quieted down a LOT. Mine was not as loud as yours but, it still made bearing noise. So, your post probably made my Jet & belt last longer and run smoother & quieter.
    Thanks,
    Regis
     
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  12. David Gilliland

    David Gilliland

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    Thanks Regis. I too crank down pretty hard on the lever but just tried with light pressure and the problem remains. I wish I knew what a properly operating version of this lathe sounded/felt like so I could know if mine is way off base. Sounds like it is. I think I'm just going to have to take it in to JET and request a new one.
     
  13. Regis Galbach

    Regis Galbach

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    I'll record mine
     
  14. Regis Galbach

    Regis Galbach

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    Here is a video/audio of my Jet1221

    View: https://youtu.be/Ic3WPO44cwg


    I ran it from minimum to max on 3600 belt position
    I was holding my phone about 12" away

    Regis
     
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  15. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks for mentioning that, Regis. V-belts and especially poly v-belts should never be under high tension. You ought to be able to grab the belt between your thumb and index finger about midway between the pulleys and deflect it a half inch each way with only moderate finger pressure. High tension will wear out the belt and bearings way before their normal service life. On my Jet mini lathe, the weight of the little half horse motor is sufficient for tensioning the belt.
     
  16. john lucas

    john lucas

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    I will have to go look at a 1221 to see how the bearing are inserted. On the smaller jets the handwheel tightens up to put tension on the bearings. If it's too tight it will make noise. Too lose and you get some mild spindle wobble. I will check with my friend who has one and see if I can run over.
    Belt tension will definitely cause excessive noise. You want enough tension to drive everything but not hogging down on it.
     
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  17. William Rogers

    William Rogers

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    Most likely it is the rotating live center that is slightly out. They are not that precision and I have seen many times when two spur centers are used the lathe alignment is fine. The rotating live centers are just not the way to check lathe alignment. Before doing anything to the lathe with respect to alignment I would recommend either getting another spur center to use or a lathe alignment tool. I would suspect the vibration is from something else and not alignment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
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  18. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    Using a mechanics stethoscope or a long handled screw driver you may be able to
    locate the source of the noise. When standing next to a machine making noise it can
    be difficult isolating the source of the noise and problem. If you can narrow down the
    source of the noise you will most likely narrow down the problem & the solutions.
    You have (2) main rotating components in your machine, determine if the noise and vibration
    is emanating from the drive motor or the rotating spindle assembly. You have a new machine
    with a new belt so it should be in good condition, you may want to inspect the drive belt to make
    sure it is in good condition, a worn or damaged belt can also create vibration and noise on a
    rotating machine.

    Another option is to review your parts manual to understand the process of the dis-assembly
    of your machine. You could purchase a good quality set of bearings for the spindle assembly and
    take your lathe apart and install a new set of bearings. Taking this step will do several things, you
    will have an intimate understanding and knowledge of all of the components in your machine. You
    will also understand how they work together as a system. You will also understand how to access
    and maintain each assembly in the machine. You could also install a spare belt around the spindle
    shaft and secure it out of the way so you have it when the other belt fails.

    If the parts manual does not provide enough information for the bearings you will need to take
    measurements from the factory installed bearings to cross them over to a domestic made bearing
    that will work on your machine. Someone may have already done this and may have them listed on
    the internet on one of the wood working websites. You could order the original OEM bearings but if
    there was a quality control issue with these bearings you might be replacing a bad set of bearings with
    another set of bad bearings. As of late many companies that make equipment overseas will source components on the open market and these components are manufactured or assembled in questionable
    environments, bearings are precision made components that need to be cleaned and assembled in a
    clean room controlled environment.

    Relying on a factory customer service these days can be frustrating and many times a waste of time. The trend as of late is putting a script in front of a person that has a day or two of training to answer questions
    when the phone rings. The newer model machines take several months before they get feed back from the
    market to determine the weak components and problems with a new design. You can get your hands dirty by
    working on your machine to determine the problem, or you can sit on the phone waiting for the next available
    attendant to read off of a script to maybe identify the problem.
     
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  19. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Since I am currently at the SWAT symposium, I dropped by the Craft Supplies booth and got Kirk DeHeer to run the Jet 1221 that they had set up for for doing demonstrations. This was during the quiet time in the vendor area when most people were away attending programs so there wasn't any crowd noise. He ran the lathe at about 1900 RPM and I could barely hear any sound. The sound that I did hear was essentially all from the motor. The lathe was sitting on a sturdy work bench.

    Just to make sure that the piece of plywood isn't acting as an amplifier, try running the lathe sitting directly on a concrete floor. If it's not running very quietly, take it back and get another one.
     
  20. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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