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Kelton Bowl Saver vs Oneway Easy Core

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Does any one have first hand knowledge of both of these systems? Any preference towards either? I have the Oneway Easy Core system and am pleased with it, although I would like to have the ability to produce more than just hemispherical cores. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

Steve Worcester

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I have and use both. You are correct that the easy core will only produce hemispheres. The nature (and ease) of the design is the knife pivoting. I have experimented a bit with mixing the knifes and fingers and adds a bit to the versatility.

The Kelton has different knifes to give you different profiles. It gives you that, but the learning curve is much steeper, and it can be a bit intimidating in the event of a catch, and the subsequent knife bend/twist.

I will use both, and will end up twisting and repairing both. They each have their place and if you can afford both, get them. Afford one and are timid, get the Oneway. Smaller lathe, I would say Oneway also.
 
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I only have the McNaughton and chose it because of the versatility it offers.

Learning curve may be steeper but not that much if you try to understand what is happening while coring. Watching some instructional videos really help a lot too.

I am planning on adapting my hollowing laser pointer with mine and that should help give me peace of mind more while coring :D
 
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Thanks for the insight gentlemen. I was thinking of the Kelton system for use on my VB-36. Those pieces that are larger than I can start on the 2436 wind up as a big pile of shavings. Coring at least once with the Kelton on the VB, then taking those cores to the Oneway for use with the Easy core is what I had in mind. Plus the added versatility of using the Kelton on either machine with a toolpost change would be an advantage. I was just qurious as to how the Kelton system handled. I am an experienced turner, and I do understand the forces involved in this operation. I just do not know anyone locally with a Kelton to talk to about how they like it or maybe test drive one.
 
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Coring

Hi Valkyrie
If you go to Bill Grumbine's web site www.wonderfulwood.com, click on the for turners tab, you will find a write up about the McNaughton system.
It may help you.
I too am aiming at bying the McNaughton system some time, and would be interested to find out how you get on with it.
Nigel
 
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I'm curious. Why do you say the Oneway device will only make hemispherical cores? I have not used one, but it looks to me like the base can slide across the lathe bed, allowing both the entry point of the tool into the wood, and the center of rotation to adjusted relative to the wood.

This seems to me to be no different than the Kelton, which I use. I'm not overly fond of the Kelton system. There seems to be a lot of manufacturing innacuracies that seem to cause problems.
  • the blades don't sit perfectly horizontally, so the cutting height varies as the cut progresses
  • the cutting tips aren't in line with the handle, so the blade tends to twist
  • the oval section, while reducing friction, allow the blade to twist in the gate
  • the blades aren't bent to a perfect circle so the cut has to be made wider than it it should be or the blade binds
I would also add that it seems to me to be easier to set the Oneway system so you know where the cut is going. That is tricky with the Kelton since you don't know where the center of curvature is.

If I had a lathe big enough that I could core over the bed I would seriously consider switching to the Oneway system.
 

Steve Worcester

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seafoam said:
I'm curious. Why do you say the Oneway device will only make hemispherical cores?
The blade has a pivot point which is set towards the center of the bowl. Since it picots, it is going to be an arc, a half circle the radius of which is the center of the bowl to the cutting tip.
 
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Steve, can the blade's pivot point not be set off center? It looks to me like there is adjustment for it to slide sideways.

Let's say it could be set off to the side, away from us. The arc it is going to cut will reach the axis of the bowl (the bottom of the core) at angle such that the core is more v-shaped than hemispherical.

Granted, the side will still be an arc, but then that is true for all these systems. If the tool isn't an arc then it will bind in the cut.
 
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Derek,

I only have and seen the Mcnaughton but I think I understand what you are saying and yes it may work...BUT if you look at the lower support...I think they are geared towards coring with the post at center.

Otherwise you have to make the cut thick enough to compensate for it. If not the support will be on the way of the outer core's walls (I think). the same is true with the blades...they seem wider than McNaughton and there is a tradeoff for that (need a wider cut).
 
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I'm glad this topic was raised, as a coring system may be my next major purchase. (I just acquired a new PM 3520B this past week.) I've watched both systems demo'd on video but have no first-hand experience with either. About Derek's question, it seems to me that you could do what he proposes but you either run the risk of creating a large funnel :eek: or wasting an awful amount of material which runs contrary to the reason for coring.

It appears to me that the OneWay Easy Core, while being more limited in profiles/shapes, is almost completely foolproof in avoiding funnels. The McN seems a little more risky in that regard but I have to say I like its variety of profiles. The only thing that is certain for me now is that I will do a lot more studying before deciding which way to go. :cool:

BTW this is my first post here although I've been around a few months. Glad you guys are here. :)
 
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funnels?

I'm not clear what you mean by funnel, but if it's a core with a hole in the bottom, then yes it is easily done with the McNaughton, believe me, I know. Even if it doesn't have a hole, the bottom can often be too thin to hold and make a serviceable bowl. I have made a rig to try and overcome this, but the jury is still out on it's accuracy.
 
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Mark,

At the same time I purchased my McNaughton, I also purchased a hollowing rig with laser. I am now planning on attching the same laser to my McNaughton...it should be an easy task and Iam sure I can have it done...once I put time to it LOL. :D

With the laser, I hope I won't make any "funnels" or "lamp shades" ;)
 
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seafoam said:
I'm not clear what you mean by funnel, but if it's a core with a hole in the bottom, then yes it is easily done with the McNaughton, believe me, I know.
Yup, that's what I was calling a funnel!

Dario said:
Mark,

At the same time I purchased my McNaughton, I also purchased a hollowing rig with laser. I am now planning on attching the same laser to my McNaughton...it should be an easy task and Iam sure I can have it done...once I put time to it LOL. :D

With the laser, I hope I won't make any "funnels" or "lamp shades" ;)
I'll be interested in knowing how you rig the laser to fit the McN! Of equal importance will be seeing how the laser serves you in practice (i.e., at what point the laser makes it apparent that you are on a funnel trajectory and what is done to correct the cutter's path).
 
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Derek:

You are correct in your assumptions.
The pivit point does not need to be in the center of the bowl, it can be to either side of center.
You can use the same knife and core out several different size bowls by moving the pivit point to the left of center and move the tool base back from the previous cut.
Look at the ONEWAY coring demo and David Lancaster explaines this.

Happy and Safe Turning!!!

CA
 
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Standard Kelton

I have the standard Kelton... a Oneway 1640 Lathe 2HP... I've got both, Bill Grumbine's review, and Kelton's instructions... I've cored probably 30 different times...
And I still don't know how to set it up to get a good core. My first few cores were pretty nice, but now all of them are way too thick at the rim, and way too thin at the bottom, or else look like a Bundt Cake pan on bottom. And I've followed the instructions to a tee.
Frustrated doesn't cover it. :mad:
 
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Well it sounds like I have asked a question to which there are many answers. As I had stated, I do have the Oneway Easy Core system that I use on the 2436. It does work well and I like it. I was looking for something to use on the VB-36 for larger pieces. The Kelton seems to have it's pros and cons. From all that has been posted on using the Kelton, it seems to me that the path that the knife takes can vary quite a bit. Is this from user trajectory or is this something to do with how the tool gate guides the knife? As I see it the gate is set up to guide the knife on a certain path that will produce a core the shape that you want. Any how, the picture below is of a Maple trunk that I have acquired that I do not want to turn into lots of shavings,
thus the need for a coring system on the VB. Thanks for all the input. I may just have to order the Kelton and see for myself.

Michael L. Jones
 

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Michael,

That tree looks awesome!!! :eek:

The McNaughton can be adjusted as you go so the gate doesn't control the trajectory at all. What it does is assist the toold to stay upright and to counter the leverage the coring tool produces.

Watch the coring video of Mike Mahoney...it will answer a lot of your questions. If you do buy the large set and don't like it...I will be willing to buy it from you (provided it is discounted :p ) LOL
 
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Mark Pruitt said:
Yup, that's what I was calling a funnel!


I'll be interested in knowing how you rig the laser to fit the McN! Of equal importance will be seeing how the laser serves you in practice (i.e., at what point the laser makes it apparent that you are on a funnel trajectory and what is done to correct the cutter's path).

Mark,

I will post some pics when I got it done.

Re: when you will know...right away. You can change trajectory while coring and adjust as needed. Ofcourse some situation might require you to back out and make another cut :D
 
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And wax the gate and knives. A nice solid spooge of paste wax on the gate and a quick rub on the base and top of the knife will work wonders for reducing catches. Being able to slide the knife smoothly keeps it from making those small jumps forward that bugger things all up.

Dietrich
 
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Mike Mahoney Video

I took Dario's advice and watched the Mike Mahoney video on the McNaughton. I think that has really helped me see and understand what it does and how it is used. I reccomend the video to anyone who has questions about the McNaughton. Now.... just where did I put that new woodturning catalog!

Thanks Fellas...
 
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I struggled a bit myself at the beginning, but following the tips in the Mahoney video helped out immensely. The most important tips in my experience were a.) to make sure the final height of the blade tip is exactly at center b.) not to pull the handle sideways, but push the handle blade forward. I think these were probably mentioned in Bill's website as well.

One thing that can be tricky, that I've never seen mentioned, is that if the wood has a lot of internal stresses, or dries quickly and deforms substantially the knife can get jammed if enough relief cuts are not made as the bowl is cored. I figured this out coring some red gum eucalyptus :) .
 
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I took Dario's advice and watched the Mike Mahoney video on the McNaughton. I think that has really helped me see and understand what it does and how it is used. I reccomend the video to anyone who has questions about the McNaughton. Now.... just where did I put that new woodturning catalog!

Thanks Fellas...

I agree its a great video. I bought it and learned a lot. However...his video, From the Tree to the Table, taught me a lot more about bowl turning.
 
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Kelton

Our club recently hosted Mike Mahoney for a demo, and he spent quite a bit of time showing us the Kelton Coring system. There are a couple of suggestions that can help. First, make a template of the piece you are coring and draw on it the arcs you need to make the cores. (This is essentially the same as extending the tool post, but doesn't require standing on a bucket.) Then, choose the blades to match the arcs you have drawn and determine your point of entry to begin the core.

Second, Mike pointed out that a slight relief cut on the outside of the path near the entry point helps greatly for chip clearance.

Third, it is essential to push the tool into the work, not lever it in by pulling on the handle sideways. The tool already has an arc built in and you have to let it do the work itself.

I highly recommend Mike's video for using this tool. It is amazing what it can do!
 
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When setting the height of the tip to center, extend the blade all the way through the gate, raise the handle to the stop and then check. I have found that one setting using PVC will not work for me as some of my blades are not perfectly formed and some have been bent and straightened. Assuming the tip is the same height off the ways as the base of the blade can cause a "catch" problem in actual use as while advancing the blade the tip lowers into the catch zone and the blade torques and rubs the walls of the kerf. It is better to start with the blade high of center and advance to the blade perfectly on center at the finish.
 
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I do use a collar around the tool rest post to keep the cutter at center height. One collar does seem to work for all 3 sets of blades. I have found that especially on large bowls that by the time the cutter gets to the bottom, it can be below center. There is some flex in the blade, and the tool rest support, especially when you are hanging out there a ways. This will lead to more chattering, but seldom any catches. I do prefer to be slightly above center when starting the cut. Kind of standard for any tool when working on the inside of a bowl.

As far as differences in the 2 systems, The McNaughton is by far more versatile. You can core plates, standard bowls, and deeper vessels. This is because of the variety of blade shapes there are to work with. With the fixed center Oneway, there is a little play for side to side for going deeper, or shallower, but if you go all the way to either side, there are problems with the support finger binding in the cut. The biggest time difference comes from having to advance the support finger on the Oneway. This means on a bigger bowl that you have to turn off your lathe 4 or more times to advance the support finger. I also don't like sharpening the cutters. You have to take them off the lathe, then hold them up to a grinder. You have to sharpen the top surface because of the point on the front of the cutter. If I was to use this in production, I would make a surface grinder of some sort. A diamond stone just doens't quite cut it.

The McNaughton is faster for me to set up and use, but, there is a learning curve. This is not a tool to try to learn all by yourself. The instructions that come with it aren't very good, and you need some one to show you how, or get a DVD. Mike has one, and I have one as well with a slightly different approach.

robo hippy
 
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I have both systems but find it's the Oneway that I use. The Kelton system works but is probably not suitable unless one frequently does coring. I don't find myself frustrated by the lack of variation the Oneway allows though it is less. One point that is very pertinent in this discusion is that since the Oneway path is fully set before cutting, one can set the cut where the bowl bottom is without having to allow for an error, producing what in one post was referred to as a 'funnel'.

With the Oneway, I would suggest getting extra cuting heads so that a batch of them can be sharpened and ready for use. This way the sharpening is less of a chore than with the Kelton. One can quickly change these heads.

Malcolm Smith.
 
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I did have Oneway send me one cutter that didn't have the point ground on it. I did taper the sides a bit, and put a 70 degree bevel on the end. I really liked the way it cut. It was more agressive than the pointed model, which is why they don't sell them that way. It could be sharpened while the cutter is on the blade. I didn't try the spear point on that cutter.
robo hippy
 
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