• Beware of Counterfeit Woodturning Tools (click here for details)
  • Johnathan Silwones is starting a new AAW chapter, Southern Alleghenies Woodturners, in Johnstown, PA. (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Paul May for "Checkerboard (ver 3.0)" being selected as Turning of the Week for March 25, 2024 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Lathe Tools

Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
41
Likes
35
Location
Sullivan, Maine
Hi folks,
New to turning and to this forum. I looked around and didn't see much in the way of guidance for buying tools, gouges and the like. I've done some homework and understand the metal issues with HSS vs. Carbon Steel. However, my question is simpler.

I want to buy decent/quality tools without paying JUST for the name. So, if I were to buy, Sorby, for example, I'm sure I'd get a good tool, or set. But how much of the cost would be just for his name? Not that I'd not buy it anyway, but I'd like to know what I'm buying.

Also, I've seen a lot of "suggestions" about what specific tools a newbie like me should buy. And I'd like some help with that too. Individual tools rather than a set?

About five years ago I took a turning class and couldn't follow up for a variety of reasons. This weekend my wife and I are attending a weekend class at the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Rockport, Maine. It's only two days, but it's a smaller class and I've got my questions written out.

Guess I need as much help as I can get to begin with and any suggestions about tools would be greatly appreciated. Santa will be bringing them. Yes, I believe in Santa, especially with a promise like that.

Jerry
 
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
14
Likes
0
Location
Washington State
I agree with you about not wasting money on just a name. Fortunately, I think Sorby is actually one of the ones where you really will get your money's worth out of. I would add Crown turning tools to that list as well. I'm a big fan of quality tools after throwing away junky ones I wish I'd never bought.

The one thing I look for is Sheffield steel. I have no doubt there are as good or better steels, but you will not be disappointed with Sheffield steel.

In all the classes I've taken, one of the points that always comes across is that there's a lot of ways to save money. You can buy just the steel and turn your own handles. (I'd actually like some sources for buying the steel if anyone knows any.)

I think if you have no other tools at all right now, a set would be a great way to get going. You'll definitely save money. Most of the 5-8 piece sets will have all the standard tools, none being useless.
 
Last edited:

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,593
Likes
4,890
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
Jerry, You are on your way. My suggestion to new turners is take a class and then buy the tools you learned to use. You are on your way to quality school. For first tools I suggest you consider Packard's Packard brand (crown?) and Craft supplies Atrisan( Henry Taylor) They are quality tools less expensive. Steve will be able to help you with tool selection. Great teacher great guy. You will have fun and learn a lot. Al
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
134
Likes
5
Location
Houston, TX
my not so learned, somewhat newb opinion -

you can't go wrong with most Sorby, Taylor or Crown tools. Even though they are "named" tools, they make quality tools at affordable prices.

now - each of those manufacturers may produce a "Signature" line of tools named for a particular turner (David Ellsworth, Glenn Lucas, Richard Raffan, etc) - those tools generally cost a bit more than standard tools

most important is to take notes in your class of tools that you use. Ask about flute shapes of gouges that you use AND like, type of grind, etc. - those things will help you select the tools you want to buy.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
86
Likes
6
Location
Greenwood, SC
Jerry, glad you are aboard. You'll learn lots here and be sure to check out the newbe forum. Lots of good things there. Although no one has said it but sort of implied, don't by a set of tools. Buy the ones you need. And buy quality tools. You really do get what you pay for.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
792
Likes
9
Location
Ames, Iowa (about 25 miles north of Des Moines)
Website
rwallace.public.iastate.edu
Don't forget about the sell-direct-to-customer, independent tool manufacturers like Thompson Lathe Tools, D-Way Tools, Monster, and similar woodturning tool manufacturers. You can purchase tools (and handles) from these suppliers that are generally very high quality steel with excellent manufacturing QC, and a long tool life. You can also save a bit by turning or making your own handles that are customized to your needs, body/hand size, and type of turning being done. Purchasing one handle and several different tools for it is a great way to get started with top quality turning tools at the outset. Given the relative cost and high tool quality involved, these tools purchased directly from the manufacturer are often a very good bargain that will last a long time.

Rob Wallace
 

Bill Boehme

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
12,886
Likes
5,169
Location
Dalworthington Gardens, TX
Website
pbase.com
.... I want to buy decent/quality tools without paying JUST for the name. So, if I were to buy, Sorby, for example, I'm sure I'd get a good tool, or set. But how much of the cost would be just for his name? Not that I'd not buy it anyway, but I'd like to know what I'm buying.

Sorby, as well as Crown, Hamlet, Thompson, and other well made tools are brands. When turners talk about buying a "name" tool, they are referring to "signature" tools -- a brand name tool that has been "blessed" by a big name professional in much the same way that you would expect to see signature golf clubs, fishing rods, and other big boy toys. You can buy the above brand tools without the need to buy any of the signature tools that the same manufacturers offer for more money. Generally speaking, when you buy a signature tool, you are actually getting more than just the signature stamped on the handle. It may be the steel or the shape of a flute or the processing (cryo, for example). The worth of this added value is fodder for debate on Internet forums.

.... This weekend my wife and I are attending a weekend class at the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Rockport, Maine. It's only two days, but it's a smaller class and I've got my questions written out.

I think that there is no better way to get you going than this. Whether you ask your questions or not, you will know the answers by the time that the class is over because the instructors already know what your questions will be.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
I will second Rob's advice. I use mostly Thompson and D Way. You are buying from the guys who make the tools. You generally get better steel at more affordable prices. They come unhandled, so you can make your own (I prefer wood) or buy some after market handles, and there are a lot of them. As to which ones you will need and use, well, that is a whole different question. Generally 2 bowl gouges, one 45 degree bevel or so, and one 'bottom feeder' with a 60 to 70 degree bevel. A round nose scraper. A parting tool. A skew or two. A detail gouge or two. A spindle roughing gouge. You can do just about anything with these tools. There are many other variations of these tools.

Then you need a grinder and CBN grinding wheels. Best ones from D Way, if for no other reason than the width (1 1/2 inch). Tools must be sharp.

Welcome to the vortex.

robo hippy
 

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,593
Likes
4,890
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
IMHO most beginners will be better served by the M2 steel-high( speed steels). They can be sharpened with an AO wheel and produce good results. Certainly the Thompson tools are excellent and I have several. These tools really benefit from sharpening on a CBN Wheel or ceramic wheel. When I get to only owning particle metal tools I will get a CBN wheel.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
298
Likes
243
Location
Suwanee, GA
Website
www.mikepeacewoodturning.com
Agree with all about the quality Sheffield steel for HSS. Chinese HSS tools might be a bargain but sooner or later you will get some real duds, whether it is the quality of the steel, their hardening process or their milling.

I like Thompson tools but generally happy with the Sorby HSS, especially when bought during their 20% off sale which happens once or twice a year at Woodcraft and other turning vendors. Buy the Sovereign version without the handle and make your own handles.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
41
Likes
35
Location
Sullivan, Maine
Tools

You guys are great. I suspected I'd get this kind of advice, and I really appreciate it. I'll wait until after the class this weekend and figure out where to send Santa looking for my new toys. And since it's Mrs Santa that's doing all this, AND TAKING THE CLASS, I suspect she won't make EITHER of us wait until Christmas to get what we want. Yeah, she's good like that.

Any of you know what a Rope Worker's FID is? I do a lot of decorative rope work, more about that later. Well, along the way, I've picked up a HUGE amount of beautiful Fancy Pants exotic wood to make Native American Flutes from. Well, my market dried up and I've got a lot of this wood with graining to die for in 2" ++ thick pieces. Well, Fids are used in rope work to open the individual strands, and you'll be hard pressed to find nice ones in lovely wood. So that's one of my immediate goals; learn Spindle work so I can turn fids and get them on eBay.

Thanks again, and please keep the advice coming. Can't have too much of that stuff.

Jerry
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
134
Likes
5
Location
Houston, TX
unless I'm missing something, most of the fids I saw on Ebay are selling for $10 or less.

you could certainly do much better than that using that wood for some other turnery project.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
325
Likes
732
Location
Gulfport, MS
Website
www.woodtreasuresbybreck.com
I will agree that if you go with the powder metal tools they really do need to be sharpened with the CBN wheel to get that great edge. If you don't have a CBN wheel for sharpening yet then I would go with the Taylor, Sorby, etc.. tools because like what has been said they can be sharpened well with standard stone wheel grits. And that matters from my experience.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
There is no reason to wait for the CBN wheel. If you want the best wheels out there, it is no contest. They are far safer, never need to be cleaned, trued up, or balanced. Your only excuse is that you have to wear out the wheels you have first. Well, maybe you spent money on a balancing set up and fancy truing tools.....

robo hippy
 

john lucas

AAW Forum Expert
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
8,322
Likes
3,576
Location
Cookeville, TN
I have no problems whatsoever sharpening my Thompson toos on a white wheel. You don't need a CBN wheel to sharpen theses. I love my Thompson tools and sharpen them on white wheels ,strip sander,and CBN. No problems.

I also like the Packard a d Artisan brand tools and feel like they are a good brand. Most every thing I've used from woodcraft has been a good tool
P@N told are good buys
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
114
Likes
1
Location
Central Washington State, the dry side.
Tools

I wasted a few of my earliest tools as I did such a poor job sharpening. Nothing like removing 1/8" of metal with each trip to the grinder trying to learn free hand sharpening. I bought and continue to use a Oneway Wolverine jig. Glad I did my initial learning on inexpensive (relative, I know) tools before graduating to the D-Way and Doug Thompson tools that I enjoy using today.
 

Bill Boehme

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
12,886
Likes
5,169
Location
Dalworthington Gardens, TX
Website
pbase.com
I wasted a few of my earliest tools as I did such a poor job sharpening. Nothing like removing 1/8" of metal with each trip to the grinder trying to learn free hand sharpening. I bought and continue to use a Oneway Wolverine jig. Glad I did my initial learning on inexpensive (relative, I know) tools before graduating to the D-Way and Doug Thompson tools that I enjoy using today.

I think that using a jig is a wise choice. I know that many of the professionals and others can do a great job of freehand sharpening, but I have seen a lot more bad jobs of freehand sharpening than I have seen good jobs.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
41
Likes
35
Location
Sullivan, Maine
Okay, so lots of you folks recommend Thompson tools. I looked them up and agree that they seem to be about as good as I'd ever need. One problem.

They come with no handles!

For an experienced wood turner, this isn't an issue, but I don't have any tools to turn a handle with and no experience to do it with either. So buying these really nice tools leaves me in the same situation I'm in now; no tools! I can't turn a handle without a tool and I don't have a tool to turn one with.

Really, that's a "Catch 22" type joke, and you'll date yourselves if you know what that is. Certainly I can buy a less expensive tool with which to make the handles. Probably should do that anyway until I get my style sorted out.

Having said that, and accepting that I may really want the Thompson tools, what's your "second" choice? I need to practice sharpening too. I DO have the Wolverine jig with white wheels; is that adequate?

I know I'm a pest, but you folks seem to have the answers.

Thanks,
Jerry
 

john lucas

AAW Forum Expert
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
8,322
Likes
3,576
Location
Cookeville, TN
Doug does sell handles for his tools but it is easy to make your own. Lots of info on the web about making handles. I probably have a handout in my documents if you really want one.
You do of course need a tool to make a handle. Since a bowl gouge is one of the most useful tools I would purchase one (pick on) from one of the sources mentioned above and plan on using it up. It will allow you to turn a handle even though it may not be the best tool for this, it does work. The downside of some of the bowl gouges is they don't come with a decent grind to begin with. My Henry Taylor which is a good gouge came with no grind, just sort of blunt on the end. Not a problem for me but could be for a new turner. That's part of why I like the Thompson tools They come with a decent grind and if you already own a Wolverine jig it works perfectly with this grind.
Even if you have a jig you can screw up tools. We see it all the time in classes. You have to understand how to correct bad grinds and this leads toward getting a good grind from the start. I have several videos on sharpening which should help you no matter what you buy. Here is one of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9G16ylEZHQ
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
With the commercial handles, one handle can be used on several different tools. Shank size is what matters. This is a handy option for traveling with your tools. If you have any turning friends near by, making your own wood handles is a good beginning project.

robo hippy
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
Jerry,
I am trying to figure out how you could grind of 1/8 inch of steel with each trip to the grinder. 1/4 inch gouge? 100,000 rpm 10 grit wheel? Even beyond what I could do, and I tend to be heavy handed. Or are you a fisher man?

robo hippy
 

Bill Boehme

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
12,886
Likes
5,169
Location
Dalworthington Gardens, TX
Website
pbase.com
Jerry,
I am trying to figure out how you could grind of 1/8 inch of steel with each trip to the grinder. 1/4 inch gouge? 100,000 rpm 10 grit wheel? Even beyond what I could do, and I tend to be heavy handed. Or are you a fisher man?

robo hippy

Uh, . . . Reed -- Jerry didn't say that. :D

But, in any case, it is conceivable that a beginner could do that if nobody had shown him how to sharpen.
 

john lucas

AAW Forum Expert
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
8,322
Likes
3,576
Location
Cookeville, TN
Well probably not 1/8" but I do remember grinding away more than I wanted. I would sharpen and of course it looked like I was taking a course in diamond faceting. Then I'd try to use it and it wouldn't behave and I didn't know if it was me or the tool so I would sharpen again. My guess is that's how we end up using up our first gouge. Of course that was before grinding jigs.
 

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,593
Likes
4,890
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
I have "fixed" lots of side ground gouges over the years. Some with deep dips in the nose and others with deep dips in the wings. Never actually measured any but Some were probably at least 7/64" deep :)
Also an incorrect sharpening angle on a spindle gouge can ruin an 1/8 inch on the tip a hurry.

One joy of conducting workshops.... you will will see what folks come up with when "self taught"
When the grind is so off I have to turn the tool upside down and joint the tops of the wings those are taking off a lot of metal.

Some of my early grinding attempts were unusable. Al
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
14
Likes
0
Location
Marietta
Which came first..The Chicken or the handle

One problem.

They come with no handles!

For an experienced wood turner, this isn't an issue, but I don't have any tools to turn a handle with and no experience to do it with either. So buying these really nice tools leaves me in the same situation I'm in now; no tools! I can't turn a handle without a tool and I don't have a tool to turn one with.

Really, that's a "Catch 22" type joke, and you'll date yourselves if you know what that is.....
Thanks,
Jerry
Jerry, before the lathe, a handle was a dowel with a hole in it. Many a file or rasp got a handle from an old broom stick or closet rod, hand drilled hole, a few wraps with wire if need be. In computers, a boot strap program knows just enough to fetch the OS from a spinning disk, tape, ROM, and constructs a marvel of a human interface by which we can communicate.

Think rather, I built up my tool handles from a roughing gouge with a broom stick handle from which I made a better handle. Then I made a handle for my spindle gouge, with which I made a handle for my skew. By the time I finished my handles, I was pretty good at sizing, drilling, and sanding.

Would the lack of handle stopped Milo or Yossarian?? Yes, one of my favorite books.

:D

Cheers, JT
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
41
Likes
35
Location
Sullivan, Maine
Tools and handles

Well spoken responses. Of course, I was joking about the catch 22 issue. As it turns out, about five years ago I took a turning class and had bought some terrible tools on eBay that never worked and probably never could have. Really bad metal. I still have them.

I bought the Wolverine jig and never sorted out how it worked.

So, Now I have the jig and a pile of trash tools. I CAN proceed. The tools have enough life in them that, IF I can get them sharpened, I can make handles. And it's good practice on the sharpening jig too. If I really screw one of them up, there's little lost. And in truth, I've gotten a lot better at sharpening and, with the help of some of the you tube videos, am making a pretty nice bevel on a gouge. It's coming.

Really, I do appreciate the guidance and encouragement. I couldn't follow through with the other course for a variety of reasons. This time I'm determined to get it right. So, you folks will be hearing lots more questions. I hope that, at some point, I may become a contributor, rather than a newbie asking questions.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
41
Likes
35
Location
Sullivan, Maine
unless I'm missing something, most of the fids I saw on Ebay are selling for $10 or less.

you could certainly do much better than that using that wood for some other turnery project.

Shawn,
You are dead on right. But wait, there's more.

I belong to the International Guild of Knot Tyers; ever hear of them? Probably knot. Anyway, they are top of the heap decorative knotters that do things with pieces of string you wouldn't believe, and they are the group these fids will be aimed at for sale and as gifts.

I've got some stunning Tiger Maple that is musical instrument grade. The curls are as magnificent as you could imagine. Turn that down into a fid and it may become a showpiece. That's my plan anyway.

You're right. I'll not make much money on these things. But the contentment that comes from making one, and seeing someone's eyes light up, is satisfaction enough.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
134
Likes
5
Location
Houston, TX
Shawn,
You are dead on right. But wait, there's more.

I belong to the International Guild of Knot Tyers; ever hear of them? Probably knot. Anyway, they are top of the heap decorative knotters that do things with pieces of string you wouldn't believe, and they are the group these fids will be aimed at for sale and as gifts.

I've got some stunning Tiger Maple that is musical instrument grade. The curls are as magnificent as you could imagine. Turn that down into a fid and it may become a showpiece. That's my plan anyway.

You're right. I'll not make much money on these things. But the contentment that comes from making one, and seeing someone's eyes light up, is satisfaction enough.
that makes a lot more sense than selling them on ebay for $10

:D
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
It was Patrick that said it. Must have been the drugs, got my wisdom teeth yanked on Wednesday. Much better now.

To me the free hand sharpening and jig sharpening are like gouges and scrapers. I could gouge out big holes well with either tool. I had facets and lop sided grinds with my jig. The biggest hastle with platform sharpening is setting easily repeatable angles. The grinds don't have to be perfect to be able to function. You can screw up the grind equally well with jig or free hand. Mostly you need a good teacher. If you can turn, you have all the skills you need to free hand sharpen. Like Bonnie Klein said, A, B, C of turning. Anchor the tool on the tool rest, rub the bevel, and cut.

robo hippy
 

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,593
Likes
4,890
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
It was Patrick that said it. Must have been the drugs, got my wisdom teeth yanked on Wednesday. Much better now. To me the free hand sharpening and jig sharpening are like gouges and scrapers. I could gouge out big holes well with either tool. I had facets and lop sided grinds with my jig. The biggest hastle with platform sharpening is setting easily repeatable angles. The grinds don't have to be perfect to be able to function. You can screw up the grind equally well with jig or free hand. Mostly you need a good teacher. If you can turn, you have all the skills you need to free hand sharpen. Like Bonnie Klein said, A, B, C of turning. Anchor the tool on the tool rest, rub the bevel, and cut. robo hippy
A problem I have had is drift. If you turn multiples and copy the last one turned for the next one there will be a big variation as your style drifts. If you copy the first one turned for all the others they will look a lot more alike.

With sharpening you are sharpening the edge and profile you have on the tool and essentially copying the last one so drift can occur over time.

I sharpen spindle gouges without a platform the bevel on the wheel and end of the handle held on my thigh. Push the tool up the wheel and turn it left then right. This is something I learned from David Ellsworth 18 years ago. I just got good at it and the edge always comes out the same. I do drift with the front bevel angle but that isn't critical. Some additional drift happens when I just sharpen the edge and introduce a secondary bevel and eventually a convex bevel.

Bowl gouge I sharpen with the tells worth jig. If I don't use the jig I tend to get too much drift.

Everything else I sharpen on a platform.

I am a firm believer I jigs.

Al
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
Drifts? Not sure what you mean here. Is this meaning how you deal with the sweep of a gouge or scraper, as in how far back you sweep on or towards the side?

robo hippy
 

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,593
Likes
4,890
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
Drifts? Not sure what you mean here. Is this meaning how you deal with the sweep of a gouge or scraper, as in how far back you sweep on or towards the side? robo hippy

Design drift. Say you want to turn 6 matching table legs.
If you copy 2 from 1, 3 from 2, ... 6 from 5 It is likely that 6 won't match 1 well as you keep adding errors along the way.
If you copy 1 every time 2 will look a lot like 6. And all 6 will look fairly close.

When sharpening 6 times you only have the 5 the sharpening to copy. for the average person using a jig guides the design to keep the 6 time looking like the first.

A similar thing happens when you put a carved pattern on a piece. Say just straight grooves with a vee palm carver. If you go around the piece in a circle the pattern won't match up well with where you start because you will unconsciously make changes to the length and depth of the grooves.
If however, you do the carving by jumping around the piece the changes won't be as obvious and when you fill in between two caravel areas your brain makes a match.

Machines tend to be more repeatable than people. The jig is a simple machine that helps the repeatability.

The way humans do things tends to drift over time.

Al
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
Hmm, maybe I am more different than others. My grinds with the jigs were never perfect. The rounded part of the nose was never centered on the flutes. One side would have more sweep than the other. Some times the wing was more rounded, or straight, or even concave. I have found over several years of free hand sharpening that the grinds don't have to be perfect to be functional. As long as you can 'feel' the tool cutting, the tiny imperfections make no difference. I saw the same variations with free hand sharpening that I did with jig sharpening. To me, it was like Yogi Berra said, "It is 90% mental and 10% in your head".

robo hippy
 
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
2,432
Likes
1,850
Location
Bozeman, MT
I have several videos on sharpening which should help you no matter what you buy. Here is one of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9G16ylEZHQ

I highly recommend John's sharpening video to those learning to sharpen. Especially the one where he patiently shows you how to fix the common problems you'll create while learning. (And I would respectfully recommend getting a spindle gouge to make your first handle. Since spindle work is usually the first thing you'll work on, it fits what you'll be doing just a bit better and is a little less expensive.)
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
41
Likes
35
Location
Sullivan, Maine
Hi Folks,
Thought I'd let you all know how the class went. Good and bad, as you'd expect. Steve is a real character and did a fine job. However, he was short on time. He spent a lot of time on Spindle work in areas I'm not sure were as important, at our level, as they should have been. Then he started on Face Plate work on Sunday AFTER LUNCH. Less than four hours to cover a HUGE subject. We were all worn out totally and really didn't get as much out of Face Plate work as we should have, but that's the way it went.

I've got nothing but good things to say about it. I did get a lot of "general" training, learned a lot about sharpening and got some great information on different tool makers. So the course was a good thing.

Thanks to all of you for your guidance and I'll be in touch for more of it.

Jerry
 

Bill Boehme

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
12,886
Likes
5,169
Location
Dalworthington Gardens, TX
Website
pbase.com
Jerry, I think that most all classes are fast paced and will leave you exhausted by the end. Whether or not you think that spindle turning is important, my opinion is that it is the most important part of learning to turn. While it might not take much skill to turn a spindle -- it takes a lot of skill to do it well. Only when you reach that skill level will you fully realize how clumsy your early efforts looked. Concerning cross grain turning of bowls and platters, my opinion is that there is not nearly as much skill development needed as there is for spindle work. When you are proficient in spindle work, you are also proficient in all forms of turning, but the same can't be said for cross grain turning.
 

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,593
Likes
4,890
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
Jerry, Thanks for sharing your experiences. And congratulations on taking an important step. Consider joining a local club of the AAW.

T Bill made many excellent points.

The mental component of classes tends to tire the students more than the day length. So many new things to learn.
Many spindle turning concepts and cuts translate directly to face grain turning but it often takes people a long time to appreciate the relationships. Sort of a higher order of understanding when one day the light bulb goes on!

For the basic course it is the element of tool control you get with the spindle projects that make it possible to use the bowl tools.

When I need to assess a student's level, I give them a 2x2 and a bowl gouge and tell them to make me a cylinder.
How they present the tool and work quickly sorts them into beginner, intermediate, advanced.

Be safe and practice, practice, practice, practice.......
Al
 
Last edited:

Steve Worcester

Admin Emeritus
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
2,690
Likes
93
Location
Plano, Texas
Website
www.turningwood.com
Here is my $0.02

1)Initially, any grinder and wheel will work. You are just trying to put a good sharp edge on a tool. A dull edge will work far worse than a sharp edge. It is later when you think about grinder speeds (recommend below 1800 RPM if you can start there.)

2)Later you will start to appreciate better wheels. Gray works, white is better, red or blue (generically) better, CBN, the bomb. And I would put diamond in there too, but there are detractors for that cause.

3) If you want to learn to turn and not free hand grind, get an jig setup. Oneway is good, I used it for years. Sharpfast is easier. And there are several good commercial and homemade setups out there. They are designed to get a repeatable sharp edge without the fuss. But start off with a known good gouge, and set it up with the grinder turned off to get the angles right.

4) If you want to learn to free hand grind, find someone who is proficient at it and ask them for help. Expect a learning curve. This curve is potentially greater than if you didn't know how to swim and want to learn to do Olympic Butterfly, but that may be just me.

5) When you want to resharpen a tool in a jig or freehand, regardless of setup, if you aren't reshaping the tool, there is minimal steel removal.

6) buy the tools you can afford now, learn to use them and save up for better ones when you get better. Any steel will work, you just may have to sharpen more often. If you have discretionary income, buy all the awesome things I have talked about here and get someone to show you how to use them properly. If they came with instructions (unlikely) they were crappy and unuseful.

7) Better steels last longer and you don't have to have exotics wheels to sharpen them. But when you get a whole quiver of exotic steel tools, you will WANT more exotic bringing compounds to keep them sharp.

8) if you disagree with this, that's fine, this is my opinion and everyone is literally entitled to it. Argue all you want, this is MY opinion but it is based on trail and error and a lot of years of experience (like several others here). If you don't like it, it doesn't mean I have to agree with yours either, but I am open to suggestions.

9) This want meant to be a diatribe or manifesto, but I started having so much fun, it may have come out that way. It is all about having fun, life and woodturning, and sometimes the lines blur. When woodturning becomes a lifestyle, you know you have earned it.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Messages
125
Likes
1
Location
Cumming, Georgia
Website
www.tri-colorturners.com
Jerry,

I didn't read through this entire thread and this might not be very timely, but here is my input. I found that the Henry Taylor HSS and Artisan version (HT made for Craft Supplies, USA at a slightly lower price) are good quality tools for the price. I also like the Sorby Sovereign (unhandled tools) when they go on sale. I recently noticed that Grizzly is selling them at what looks to be the discount price on a regular basis. I also like to make my own tools using HSS blanks from machine tool companies. This can be a cost effective place to start, but likely not the best answer long-term unless you just like to make tools like me or need a one-off for a particular job. That said, making your own, including gouges, can be a cost effective way to teach yourself how to grind. I have gone both ways and in hindsight would have started with making my own until I got good at grinding -- I went through a couple of expensive tools in a hurry early on. I would also recommend staying away from the Chinese produced tools as you never know what you are getting. I use Chinese steel for making my own, but have found the machining blanks from my sources to be reasonable quality. Anyway, something to think about in addition to the other great input you have received.

Best regards,

Matt



Hi folks,
New to turning and to this forum. I looked around and didn't see much in the way of guidance for buying tools, gouges and the like. I've done some homework and understand the metal issues with HSS vs. Carbon Steel. However, my question is simpler.

I want to buy decent/quality tools without paying JUST for the name. So, if I were to buy, Sorby, for example, I'm sure I'd get a good tool, or set. But how much of the cost would be just for his name? Not that I'd not buy it anyway, but I'd like to know what I'm buying.

Also, I've seen a lot of "suggestions" about what specific tools a newbie like me should buy. And I'd like some help with that too. Individual tools rather than a set?

About five years ago I took a turning class and couldn't follow up for a variety of reasons. This weekend my wife and I are attending a weekend class at the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Rockport, Maine. It's only two days, but it's a smaller class and I've got my questions written out.

Guess I need as much help as I can get to begin with and any suggestions about tools would be greatly appreciated. Santa will be bringing them. Yes, I believe in Santa, especially with a promise like that.

Jerry
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
45
Likes
1
Location
Mesquite Tx
In addition to all what has been said, some good, some great, some personnel, is this: Keep your very first bowl gouge that you mutilated in changing the bevel, going from swept back, back to an open U, then using the Vari-grind, trying the Ellsworth or Irish grind, and repeated this several times. And then when the tip gets down to the very bottom of the flute, there is no more left to the tool and all you have is something to be used in the garden as a dibble, hang it from a prominent spot in your shop, near the grinder. You will look at it and laugh when you think of what you did to that poor sucker as you learned the craft.
 
Back
Top