Limiting the symposium attendance

[Jeff Jilg]

There have been some suggestions on this forum and others that we limit the attendance of the symposium. I think people mean well when they make suggestions, but this one is off track. The AAW is an inclusive organization. Everyone is welcome, even if they arrive late after driving for one or two days.

I do not feel this would be in the best interest of the AAW. The symposium attendance should NOT be limited. Sure we had some crowding problems this year. That observation is understandable. We'll work on that for the future.

Planning for the future
For our general membership and attendees, I urge everyone to register early. It helps us plan for the event. The earlier we know how many people will be there, the easier it is to change it. This year we did not have overly high registrations until 1 month before the event. Makes it hard to change stuff at that point. We did change the banquet hall so that everyone could attend. Unfortunately the sound system in the larger facility didn't work well. But we did not turn anyone away.

I think there were 3 factors contributing to the high attendance this year:
- 20th anniversary
- location was within 1 day driving distance for many
- some of the symposium promotions were more widely viewed
- a world class lineup of demonstrators

Last year we had about 1,100 attendees. This year we had ~1,800. No one (including everyone on this forum) foresaw that. If the increase was only 300 it would have been fine. But the increase was too large and too late.

The solution to the problem is to invest more time in the contingency planning. We as board members learn from experience.

I enjoyed some of the crowding. Long lines at elevators meant I could meet new people and talk to them while waiting and in the elevators. A few of the crowded rooms were challenging, and we'll work on those.

Now my problem is "what to do with a purple shirt"??? One board member told me they feel like a bridesmaid. You get an outfit you can only wear once.

 

[John Nicholas]

Purple Shirt

Now my problem is "what to do with a purple shirt"???

Come on up I-35 a few miles and you will be in Power Cat Country. K-State!!! Power Cat purple shirt - Power Matic

John

 

[Dave Beringer]

Jeff:
I totally disagree with your comment that attendance should not be limited. By that comment you are saying that watering down the product is fine. I realize how much planning it takes to have a top flite program. With respect to the planning I say implement it donot chuck it and make last minute not as well thought out plans when attendance forces you to. The Galt was overwhelmed by the size of the crowd. Its hallways and demo rooms were meant for less. I appreciate the pre planning it takes for such an event. Let the members come to realize that they may not be able to attend at the last minute. No one would have made the drive knowing that the event was sold out. It happens at all regional events. I believe it would be resonable for the planner to forcast the attendance + - a reasonable amount and make it clear that registration at the door may not be possble if the limit is met. I think its only being a responsible member to regester early. Its kind of disrespectful to the value of the symposium to register so late. Yeah a few may be forced to but thats a few not 20 - 25 percent. I would think members could aid in making a better symposium by being forced to commit in a reasonable time, allowing proper time for preparation and eliminating the fireman approach that does no credit to anyone. Again, did I have a good time in louisville, yes. Were there problems with over crowding yes. Were there major problems with the galt yes. I also realize the effort the board puts forth and I appauld them. I also believe in an organization the size of the AAW and growing it makes sense to use a professional Conference manager. You guys should be overseers and not so much involved in all the details. Im sure most of you still have 9-5 (or more) jobs that need your attention.

I firmly believe the model used for a 800-1100 member symposium may not work for one that is attended by 1800 to 2000.

 

[Bill Grumbine]

Jeff, limiting the number of people who can attend is not being exclusive. It would be if certain people were given first crack at it and then the rest were allowed a chance to get in. But, to the best of my knowledge, everyone is given the same amount of time to register. On the one had we see the complaint that there are not enough people volunteering to help out at every level of the organization, and on the other we are saying it is okay not to commit because we don't want to exclude you! You already know most of what I think on this, but since you brought it up, I will inflict my opinions on the rest of the group.

On the local level turners come visiting for smaller symposia, club demos, and even demos in the shops of individuals. Space for these is always limited. I've been on both sides of this as a demonstrator and as a spectator. In both cases, I think it needs to be limited. There is a certain level of quality the spectator expects for the money and the venue. There is a certain amount of work the demonstrator expects to perform. Now, some might say that a demo in front of 100 people or 1000 people is the same thing, but it is not. There are issues of visibility, questions from the audience, handouts, etc. If a demonstrator comes prepared for 300 people and 350 show up, he is going to look bad to someone, just because that is the nature of the human mind.

We already have the places for the next two years designated. This is not going to be a surprise for most people. The vast majority of people can and will plan for it. Why should their plans be shot to pieces by a group of procrastinators that come flooding in at the last minute? Let's say for example Portland has a convention center that will hold 1500 people. It was the AAW that picked that site, and people now have plenty of time to prepare to attend if they wish to do so. When the number gets to 1500, registration is closed, whether that happens the day after it opens or the day before the symposium starts, and no one should be surprised. No one has been excluded because they all had the same opportunity to register. You already said yourself that registration was low until the last month, and this was for the 20th anniversary!

I think there can be some contingency planning, and I made mention of that to you already, but I don't think you should have to have contingencies for lots of procrastinators showing up at the last minute, and I write that being a world class procrastinator! Change the system and you will see improvements immediately. Some people will squawk because they are used to having people cater to their irresponsibility. Let them squawk. Better yet, give them a job to do and they will either do it or shut up and disappear. This technique works very well at the local level.

Bill

 

[Gretch Flo]

what's wrong with purple?

Now my problem is "what to do with a purple shirt"??? One board member told me they feel like a bridesmaid. You get an outfit you can only wear once.

Hey-I like purple. You know the poem, "when I am old I shall wear purple" or whatever-the poem is hanging in my work office so not readily available right now.
If I had known about it maybe I'd have attended!!!! Bringing my own sleeping bag, coffee maker, grill, binocs, and no deoderant to keep the crowds down-learning from this forum Gretch

 

[Ron Sardo]

I don't think there should be a limit.

Instead have a lower registration price for people who sign up two or more months in advance.

If there is a 20% increase for late registration, folks will be inclined to save thier money and register in a timely manner.

I go to a trade show once a year that is related to my business, the price doubles for registration when the event is two months away. Over 3,000 attended at this year's event.

 

[john lucas]

I guess I must have been in all the wrong places. My hotel room was good with fresh linen each day. The elevators were a little slow but so what, I was on vacation I took the time to talk to people and meet them. My roommate was ex military so we got up early each day to go to breakfast. Guess what, no lines, we had a nice leasurely breakfast each morning and then I got to meet people on my way out who were standing in line waiting.
I don't go to all the demos, I guess I've seen too many over the years. I go to meet people and see the instant gallery and the vendors. I do enjoy sitting in on some of the demos because I like to learn about the turners I haven't seen. I only had trouble getting in to one event and that was because I got there late,my fault, I knew we had a lot of people, I knew this guy was popular, I should have planned for that. I like to go to the design and critic type of lectures and they are never full so no problem there.
I love the instant gallery critic this year. There weren't any problems with the crowd moving around and possibly breaking pieces. You could always see and hear what they were saying. I vote to keep doing the IG critic in this manor.
Having to sit through a lot of banquets at my job I've eaten my share of banquet meels. I thought the food was pretty decent especially considering how many people they served. I did have a complaint about the sound system, I left after eating because I couldn't understand a word they were saying. Bob Rosand and I discussed that afterwords and I think the powers that be know what happened and it probably won't happen again. That was a really really big room and the echos were more of a problem for me than the actual sound system.
My only real complaints were the cameras. We need to do something about that. The mini cams often didn't work and cameras are hard to get in focus. I liked the big screen idea but they were often set so far forward the camera operator or the demonstrator couldn't see what was going on. I'm working on a idea to improve the camera usage because I feel it will be absolutely necessary to get decent camera images if the rooms are filled like they were for this symposium. When I've worked it out I'll be sending it around someway or another.
I know everyone want's trained camera operators but that is a very expensive proposition and trying to train volunteers in one hour or even more really isn't realistic either. One suggestion Iwould like to make is if you feel that are a good camera person, volunteer. We need you and will really appeciate your work. Another idea would be to see if there are any local schools with video classes. We might be able to get the students to man the cameras.
I think the size of this symposium was a fluke and only rarely will be repeated. I don't think we should limit the size just yet unless the facilities absolutely can't handle it. I think the Galt house just didn't have thier act together even though I had a good experience others obviously didn't.

 

[gkulibert]

Even with all the issues, I think the only important one that was really of concern was the space to see the demos. The rest of the complaints were hotel issues and will probably not be an issue at future events.
We should not limit attendance but there was no way to expand the size of the demo rooms at this facility. That would be a way to change with changing attendance. The hotel issue this year was influenced by the fact that they had so many rooms. Most years we fill up the hotel early and then all others have to stay at nearby hotels.
The video operators were good and terrible. In training I heard one guy saying he signed up for three demos so he could see better. If he was good fine, but there is no way to rate the video operator. There needs to be a check box on the evaluation form for the video operator quality. That way we can encourage the good ones and eliminate the bad ones. We need to stop the operators that are up there to watch the show and not run the camera.
It was really a pretty good symposium considering the large crowd.

 

[Wilford Bickel]

Jeff,

I have stayed out of all these discussions as I did not attend the Symposium in Louisville. I told my wife last night that it was a good thing we did not get to go because with some of my medical problems when I have to stand in long lines, have motel room problems, etc., the pain levels go way up and I am not a pleasant person to be around! Having attended a number of cattle functions in Louisville, I had flags go up when this large of a symposium was not being held out at the fair ground facilities that are set up to handle much larger crowds then this one.

I do not agree with your analysis of the AAW being inclusive in this respect and not able to control this mess. AAW is inclusive in that we accept all membership applications and all members are equal. At the same time to put a cut off date for preregistration and accept all registrations till that time then close them does not mean we are not inclusive. It means good business - all members that register before the deadline get to come - after that only in a cancellation situation can anyone else attend. And you will have to put a cut off date after which no refunds for cancellation. This is a very common way to handle these situations. I have been under these constraints with chemical orginizations and my cattle breeders association and never had a problem.

Continuing with the no limit problems will do nothing but cause a loss of membership as most of us will not knowingly suffer through this type of situation. I know my health will not allow it. I would like to see the board consider working with regional symposiums on a yearly bases and not trying to have this massive national symposium but say every 3 years - just an idea.

 

[n7bsn]

Jeff

You are wrong, pure and simple. For a number of reasons

• There has to be a limit on attendance, it's a requirement for every public safety/fire district I know. This is the highest attendance allowed by the local codes. But, for many functions, even this limit is too high.
• A lower limit must be used when signifcant parts of the rooms are used for things other then seating. Let's say for a simple meeting the room has a max seating capacity of 100 people. But, in a case like a turning demo, about 25% of the room is taken up by the demo, so now the limit is now 75 people.
  Extend this fomula through out the facility to discover the practical attendance limit.
• There is nothing wrong with telling someone, that they waited too long to decide to come, every venue in the world can sell out.
• Almost every convention/event/etc I am involved with as a graduated attendance fee. In some cases it gets really expensive to "just drop by". My wife and I skipped one this spring, because we didn't decide in time. One year advance registration was $50, "just dropping by" was $200. Why, they really want people to preregister

Earlier you asked how the groups I do events with decide on attendance levels. One advantage we have is often using the same facilities over and over again. We learn and know what the limits of that facility are. When you don't have that advantage (which is the case here), you have to trust the staff of the facility hosting the event to be honest with you. Work with them and talk to them about what the realistic limits of the facility are. Identify this as a possible limit.

Next, examine the limits of the staff doing the work of putting on the event are, indentify this as another possible limit.

Next, examine the limits of the facilities for people to have a room/place to sleep, etc, indentify this as another possible limit.

Last, look for any other (unusual) items, like parking. Indentify these limits

The take the lowest of these numbers as your attendance limit. Tell people what this limit is, and if you expect to reach that limit.

Examples:

• The event I mentioned above (where my wife and I did not go, due to the high "drop by" fee), one year it hit the limit put on by the Hotel hosting the convention. There was massive howling, but they had tried to warn people it might happen. People were turned away.
• A camping event a group in Oregon was putting on, was told by the State Park they were renting, the limit is 2500 people. They went to "pre-reg suggested", with a hard limit published. When people arrived (some from Utah) after the hard limit was passed, they were sent away. The whinning has bad, but you know, after that year, people pre-regestered in large numbers.
• The event I may be doing next summer gets about 1500 people (camping), we figured the hard limit was about 1800. But last year the company that owns the land and us worked about a better parking arrangement, and the new limit is more like 2000, with enough extra room for horses. So, you can work around/with the limits.

Just some thoughts Jeff, but saying no-cut-off, ever, is going to end causing even more problems, maybe not next year. But someday.

TTFN
Ralph

 

[Frank Kobilsek]

My biggest concern with the big crowd was that it blew a great big hole in my retirement plan. I thought with lots of practice in 5 to 7 years I would be good enough I could go make a nice side income selling my turning work. Now I realize there will be alot of competition out there in the woodturning field. This is really disapointing as my fall back plan was collecting celebrity belly button tint and selling that at flee markets, people tell me collection and sales may be difficult in that area.

Frank

 

[john lucas]

Frank Me too. Obviously we need to get together and find something to sell to woodturners and then we can be in the vendor section breaking even with our expenses and not making any money instead of going to craft shows and breaking even with expenses and not making any money.

 

[hcgernhardt]

Why does it move?

Jeff, and any other concerned with planning---

My first question is, as the title suggests, why does the Symposium have to move every year?

I look at the Mecca of Amateur Radio as an example: Hamvention (formerly the Dayton Hamvention). This absolutely huge event is held every year at the Hara Arena, in Trotwood, OH (a suburb of Dayton). Attendance in recent years has been as low as (I believe) 18,000, with record attendance numbers in the lower to mid 20K range. Forums and testing sessions are held, and although the testing sessions require advance registration (walk-ins are permitted on a space-available basis), registration for one or more days can be purchased at the Hara Arena Box Office. The entirety of the arena floorspace is taken up by vendors, and a huge "flea market" is held in the parking area. Parking is at a remote site, and a small fee buys a weekend-long bus pass for unlimited rides between the Arena and Remote Parking areas. Registration is required to enter any portion of Hamvention, be it forums, indoor vendors, or flea market.

I know that the Symposium is a massive undertaking. I do, however, wonder about the necessity of finding a new location each year---a stable, central location may be more conducive to large attendance, and thus, higher revenue. I admit that I do agree with the comments which suggest registration should be required to enter the vendors' area, and that registration at the door or after a certain "cutoff" date should be more expensive.

Good luck with the Portland preparations!

BTW: Just wear the purple shirt. Remind me to post a picture of my purple suit.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

The location has to move to allow for folks from different areas of the country to have access to it. Also we use volunteers from each location. Imagine if we had the same volunteers each year - they would get burnt out. While we are paying for some of the services, in the nearterm we cannot run this symposium without volunteers.

This item gets discussed in nearly every board meeting (i.e. once a month). The next two years are selected and the papers are signed. 2007 is Portland, and 2008 is Richmond.

 

[Martin Braun]

My biggest concern with the big crowd was that it blew a great big hole in my retirement plan. I thought with lots of practice in 5 to 7 years I would be good enough I could go make a nice side income selling my turning work. Now I realize there will be alot of competition out there in the woodturning field. This is really disapointing as my fall back plan was collecting celebrity belly button tint and selling that at flee markets, people tell me collection and sales may be difficult in that area.

Frank

You stole my idea - I was hoping at 32, with 33 years of practice, I could be doing gallery quality work and retire on that. Guess I'll have to fall back on my plan B - towel boy in a high-end Carribean resort.

 

[hcgernhardt]

The location has to move to allow for folks from different areas of the country to have access to it. Also we use volunteers from each location. Imagine if we had the same volunteers each year - they would get burnt out. While we are paying for some of the services, in the nearterm we cannot run this symposium without volunteers.

That was my initial suspicion.

This item gets discussed in nearly every board meeting (i.e. once a month). The next two years are selected and the papers are signed. 2007 is Portland, and 2008 is Richmond.

Oooh... Oooh... Which Richmond?

 

[Jeff Jilg]

Richmond Virginia

 

[Ron Sardo]

Maybe it's time to have two symposiums, one on each coast.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

The two symposiums/year topic has also been discussed at almost every board meeting. Like I said, the next two years are setup at this point. The location(s) three years from now could have that occur.

Ralph - I am not wrong. I elicited an opinion and I feel strongly about it just like you feel strongly about yours. 400 people may agree with an opinion but that doesn't make it wrong or right.

Like I said in my original message, if we get the right contingency planning it could be possible to expand the event by up to 50%.
- add more demonstrators
- obtain increased room sizes
- increase other services as needed
- brew stronger coffee for sale in the hallways

We currently charge a higher fee for late registrations. That could get raised higher. If someone really wants to attend, they pay the price.

We could look at increasing popularity from a positive perspective. At the computer company I work at, we don't turn customers away. If they want more product and we don't have the capacity, we figure out how to increase it. This is the same type of project management problem.

This year we had a rare occurance. It never happened before. As a result we didn't have the contingency plans in place. We can now plan for this in the future.

 

[Gynia]

If you want to go to a limited atendence symposium then Provo would be a good choice.

The very fact that the demo rooms were full (which they are EVERY YEAR) shows how many folks got to see the demos.

I have suggested in years past that overflow rooms with Video and audio feeds be available for the more popular demos.

In the really BIG symposiums (the AAW Symposium is tinny compared to a LOT of other symposiums) there are many more options to keep the members entertained.

Volunteers can be compensated. 2 hour worth gets you a "T" shirt. 5 hours gets you an AAW book or AAW Video. 10 hours gets you a day free registration...

We have demos, IG and the trade show as an anytime entertainment. Add some more options for attendees. Like what?

How about a Video room. Have a library of video and a room with 10 or 20 TVs and DVD or VHS players along with headphones. Folks can come in and watch a Video. You could even list demos suggested by the demonstrators.

How about a room like the youth room for adults? Charge $10 or $20 per hour to use a mini-lathe, use some tools, safety equipment and a hunk of wood.

How about arranging with local galleries and gift shops for visits by members to offer their wears for sale?

How about a symposium craft show? A room where folks can offer their turnings (likely of less quality than the IG) for sale?

How about a more formalized way for regular folks to talk about their woodturnings? This would be a "show & tell" that members could sign up for. Limit each person who signs up to 1 minute per turning to talk about the turning (what type of wood, finish and whatever the member wanted to say about their turning) and one minute to answer questions. This room should be close to the IG and members would take one or more of their turnings to the "show & tell" room at the time they signed up for and tell anyone who was there about their turning. The turnings could even be arranged in the IG in the order they will be talked about. Right now we have the collaborative challenge, auction items, silent auction items, "return to the community" items, which would leave one more "special" section for Show & Tell. That way folks could get an idea when a particular turning was going to be talked about.

How about a photo booth where members could take pictures of their turnings and other folks turnings. This would be a sign up sort of things also person would put their turning in a photo both, set-up by the symposium, and get to take a picture of it with their camera. If other folks wanted to take a picture of that turning they would get in line and each person in turn would be able to take a high quality picture of the turning.

No doubt there are a LOT of other possibilities for diversion of members.

I suspect that it would take a few years for these options to become popular enough to have an impact on the attendance at the demos. There is also a good chance that some of these would never develop an interest amongst the members. The whole idea is to have more options instead of having the same options only larger.

With the larger screens we need higher definition cameras. Sitting 10 feet away from a 10' screen will display a NTSC video feed as grainy and out of focus. Go from 360i to 1024i and the display will make a HUGE improvement for those folks who have to use the video screen to see the demo.

This is a little "pie in the sky" but, WiFi the Video feed through a URL so members can watch the demo on their computer (in the room or elsewhere at the symposium.

I can see a hotel that could feed the Video from the different demo rooms to different channels on hotel room TVs. If these are done digital and recorded onto hard discs then these demos could be seen on demand. You see the demo but when you get back to your room you find that the notes are a bit confused. Just watch the demo again on the hotel room TV.

List restaurants in walking distance on a map and indicate on the map with "$" and color to indicate cost and type of food (breakfast, lunch, dinner, ethnic, meat and patatos...

 

[Gretch Flo]

Plan B

You stole my idea - I was hoping at 32, with 33 years of practice, I could be doing gallery quality work and retire on that. Guess I'll have to fall back on my plan B - towel boy in a high-end Carribean resort.

Falling back on being towel boy may have brought you the big bucks from Bill G and others at the Galt. Gretch

 

[Jeff Jilg]

A lot of good positive ideas are in your suggestions. I attended a recent Microsoft conference and they had numerous activities spread throughout the conference.

To my recollection the AAW has repeated the same format for the past 5 years without many changes. Last year and this year the youth room was added, and it was successful. Maybe it is time to try a couple more activities to round out the whole experience.

 

[spinsdawood]

Mebe I am missing something here. Too many active members is a problem? I know the sudden expansion of members attending a national convention complicates the situation somewhat. If overcrowded it does make for a long day. On the other hand consider the alternative. Most facilities have overflow areas that can be accessed for an additional fee. These possibilities are normally addressed in advance of the actual need. The facility wants to rent more space and should have an alternate plan to help accommadate such needs. Just my thoughts.
Jim

 

[TurningDog]

chiming in

From my perspective of someone who has been to more than a few conventions, meetings and get togethers in louisvillw, I will say I think that was the wrong location. I have never been to an event down there and not had some major problem blowup. I considdered driving the RV down and pulling the car but decided against it. I like the idea of tiered registration fees and possibly making a VIP pass available only to early registrants and everyone else is first come first serve. I have been to a few scifi/fantasy conventions worked this way and it worked well. Also I found that there was less hassle in big events in smaller metro areas as the space was available cheaper allowing for more space to be booked and more cheaply at that. I also think that rather than moving the symposium the event could be better organized holding it in a single location. Another way to cut down on needed space woud be to do 2 events a year one in late winer one in late summer. That might well too much of a pain in the *** to organize but in the long run once you get it done once it would be much easier to organize repeatedly.

 

[RonW]

It is obvious that the number attending has to be dictated by the facility used. Your can not jam 10 pounds of sawdust in a 2 pound bag! I think that the Richmond location, which is even closer to a large part of the US population, will have the same problems as Louisville, unless there is a facility capable of handling the extra last minute crowd. I am for holding the symposium in a very large convention center, one capable of dealing with any number of people and lodging folks in area hotels. Some type of shuttle bus system could be used to move people back and forth from selected hotels. That should not be much more expensive than the lathe door prizes. Some control on late registration without limited attendance, could be gained by a stiff late registration fee.

Ron Wilson

 

[Jeff Jilg]

Nice idea Ron but we can't do that because of cost. The large facilities charge a much higher rate. So if we went with one of the really large conference centers but only used it for 1,200 people then we would pay double for facilities and we wouldn't be leveraging the conference center very well.

 

[Martin Braun]

Nice idea Ron but we can't do that because of cost. The large facilities charge a much higher rate. So if we went with one of the really large conference centers but only used it for 1,200 people then we would pay double for facilities and we wouldn't be leveraging the conference center very well.

One thing to consider as well, is rate of growth of the symposium. Don't think that it will continue to grow at the rate that it did this year (1100->1800), but s'pose it grows at half that, then for 2008, you are already looking at 2000+ in addition to last minute walk-ins. I wonder if there's a correlation between local, or national growth rates, and symposium attendance?

 

[Steve Worcester]

I would say that the attendance is in relation to the area. Basically how close are you to population within driving distance. And how many woodturners are in that circle of population.

I would imagine that portland will be less people and richmond back up again.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

I agree with Steve. Plus when you consider that Portland is on a coast, the surrounding area gets cut in half (no one driving in from the ocean side). Next year will probably go back to ~1,100 or 1,200.

 

[Big Dog]

Symposium

So what incentive is there to pre-register. My biggest concern was that there were not enough seats available in the rotations. It would seem fair that those that pre-registered should have first shot at seating and then open it up to all the late comers. What do I care if I save some money by registering early but cannot get into any of the rotations I want to see. What about the possibility of having a fixed location for the symposium. Go to the major population centers or consider alternating back and forth between L.A. and New york for example.

 

[crashgtr]

Thoughts

I was thinking that maybe instead of limiting particiation in the entire conference, you could divide up the events by experience level and specialty with definitions. that way if the hosting location is big enough, you could host topics appropriate for beginner levels that would be attended by beginners and the much more advanced topics could be held simultanouesly for the advanced turners. You could further divide it up by interests or specialty, bowls, spindle, segmented etc. depending on space and facilty flexibilty.

Just some thoughts.
Liz

 

[n7bsn]

Location, Location and service

I agree with Steve. Plus when you consider that Portland is on a coast, the surrounding area gets cut in half (no one driving in from the ocean side). Next year will probably go back to ~1,100 or 1,200.

I take you meaning and agree, even if you do flunk geography (the coast is better then an hour west of Portland)

Going from past experience in other similar meetings, just putting it in the Oregon/Washington area reduces attendance by ~20% (compared to mid-west to eastern) and probably 10% (compared to California).

The only thing that bothers me about the site, is I have yet to find anyone I know that has done events there in the past, so I can't get a feel for their relative honesty, reliability and service. The variation in these you get is astounding. from places that will out-right lie, to places that will do almost anything to make your event function smoothly.

An example of the later is Ocean Shores (WA) Visitors Center. We have used them a couple of times and they have been very pleasant to work with:

Examples of the others:

• A hotel and convention facility that over booked rooms, assuming a certain % would not show
• A hotel and convetion facility that told us (and the people buying the hotel) that all their rooms were useable. When, in fact, a large percentage had never been used as they were not built properly, ie tub drain plumbing not connected, heaters that didn't work, etc. We didn't sue, but the new owners did.

TTFN
Ralph

 

[David Somers]

I agree with Steve. Plus when you consider that Portland is on a coast, the surrounding area gets cut in half (no one driving in from the ocean side). Next year will probably go back to ~1,100 or 1,200.

WELL! Mr. Jilg!! Don't forget the uncounted hoards of turners who will be driving to Portland (and maybe flying a tiny bit!) from the farther west coast....the disassociated west coast if you prefer that term (Hawaii and points so far west they become east!) We could well swell your attendance beyond your wildest imaginings!!! <grin>

It has been a number of years since I conventioneered in Portland, but the area had a pretty well developed convention capability then and I would not think it has lessened since. My experiences as an attendee were good overall. I do think Jeff and Steve are right in that the numbers (not counting the immense Hawaii contingent) will be lower because of distance, cost (Portland not being the cheapest west coast city to fly to) and the lower numbers of turners out that way, at least in my perception. It is a really nice little city though and I think it will be a good choice in terms of the symposium experience, and in recreational opportunities for folks who take time to explore before and after the event. There are a heck of a lot of amazing places within easy range of there for folks to go to. This will be my first AAW event, but in terms of attending conventions in general, I am pretty optimistic about this location. (No one in my family is a member of the greater Portland Chamber of Commerce by the way)

 

[Jeff Jilg]

The AAW has already done a preliminary site visit of the area. More planning will be done. Also the board always does an onsite visit in January for the site to be used that year.

I think Ocean Shores would have been fun. I'm from the NW. Portland will be similar to Pasadena. Both lack significant population to the areas generally to the west.

 

[Martin Braun]

I was thinking that maybe instead of limiting particiation in the entire conference, you could divide up the events by experience level and specialty with definitions. that way if the hosting location is big enough, you could host topics appropriate for beginner levels that would be attended by beginners and the much more advanced topics could be held simultanouesly for the advanced turners. You could further divide it up by interests or specialty, bowls, spindle, segmented etc. depending on space and facilty flexibilty.

Just some thoughts.
Liz

I like that idea a lot - you could split it into days - beginner/intermediate/advanced and then you would probably get the same #'s in overall attendance, but people at either end of the spectrum would spend the first or last day in the vendor area, or fly in late or early. Don't know if it would for sure work that way though, but it might smooth things out a bit.

 

[Dave Beringer]

I for one don't see how spliting days would help. Most people would still probably attend the entire symposium, its not that long. For people to drive long distances or fly a one day event just doesn't cut it. I think the real problem is forecasting what attendance will be for an event 2 years in the future for an event that dramtically changes sites each year. I still stick by my opinion that you do your best to project attendance and select a place that will accomodate you guess. When the event comes around you let the membership know what the limits are and stick to them. This will encourage members to sign up sooner and not place the planners in the 2 minute drill to adjust there plans.

 

[Bill Grumbine]

I for one don't see how spliting days would help. Most people would still probably attend the entire symposium, its not that long. For people to drive long distances or fly a one day event just doesn't cut it. I think the real problem is forecasting what attendance will be for an event 2 years in the future for an event that dramtically changes sites each year. I still stick by my opinion that you do your best to project attendance and select a place that will accomodate you guess. When the event comes around you let the membership know what the limits are and stick to them. This will encourage members to sign up sooner and not place the planners in the 2 minute drill to adjust there plans.

Well said! Almost everyone else does it this way. I don't see why it is such a problem to limit the attendance to the size of the venue.

Bill

 

[Bob M]

Look to the past

Jeff:

I wouldn't be surprised if the pattern of registrations coming in to the AAW office varied a whole lot from year to year. For example, if 50% of the total registrations for the 2005 symposium came in within 4 weeks of the opening of registration, that "50% in first 4 weeks" would probably hold pretty close (give or take 10%) for 2006. By tracking the pattern, a reasonable estimate of the eventual 2006 total could have been "ballparked" (to use a Louisville connection) in advance. This should be the responsibility of the conference coordinators.

I would also agree with other voices in suggesting that the "penalty" for later registration and for "walk up" registration be increased.

Bob Matern

 

[John Abt]

Jeff:
I would also agree with other voices in suggesting that the "penalty" for later registration and for "walk up" registration be increased.

I agree that late registrants can play havoc with planning and cause some of the issues that many experienced atthis year's symposium. I also agree that members be encouraged to register early.

This may sound petty to some, but the verbage used to describe this actually becomes important in this type of situation. I suggest that, instead of a "penalty" for late registration, that early registrants receive a "discount". It's a little softer and expresses a benefit rather than a punishment. A tiered system could be used to to set registration fees.

As an example:

those registering 30 days prior will pay $250 (remember, this is an example actual prices to be set by the board)

those registering 14 - 29 days prior will pay $275

7 -13 days - $300

walk-ups and less than 7 days, $125 per day or $325 for all 3 days


Again, I know it sounds somewhat petty, but I believe that way you say something is as important as what you say (if not more so.)

 

[CTutor]

Jeff, I was a Director of a 10,000 member society for 15 years. Ran symposia for 1800-2300 attenders so I have been on both sides of the fence. The Galt House has not changed its staffing and practices since I had a meeting there in the mid 80's. So if complaints about the venue precipitated your questions forget it. Simple things like taking rooms out of inventory would have helped at G/H like room 433 that lacked an airconditioner and viewed a wall should never have been offered. But that is the G/H. Nothing you could have done to improve thier management.

Whether you limit participation or not depends on the objective of your annual meeting. If it is to provide educational and inspirational programs for the members then limitations would not meet that objective. A simple enough guide.

AAW is at the awkward “teenager†phase of an association. Too big for most hotels (other than Vegas or Reno) and too small to use most convention centers effectively (read that financially viable). Centers will bring with them additional problems such as security (centers with big meetings are prime targets for assaults) and coldness in feeling. Hotels for the most part suffer from the same problems as the Galt. They are not generally staffed for full houses and when 100% occupied that strains the regular staff. Regardless of which you choose there will be opinions about the choice. Unless 15-20% of the attenders have the same complaint your probably doing the best you can do without too many changes. Listening though will never hurt.

If providing educational/inspirational programs is the objective and crowding is the problem why not extend the number of programming days and offer tiered programs. The first day for newcomers, second for advanced , and the third and forth for creative “Gee Whiz†out of the ordinary presentations. (Or some such). Let the attender pick and choose what days to attend. Of course the exhibitors will complain. Give them an option as a group to exhibit for 3 or four days. They can not afford not to exhibit for the entire show but give them an option. I know which they will chose. (I assume you have an exhibitor organization/speaker set up by now).

Preregistration woes are normal. Advertize a registration fee (add 20% to what is reasonable) and offer a pre-registration discount of XX% to those who register by XXXXX . It seems to be a psychological thing to offer a discount rather than stipulate two rates. You’ll still get last minute late registration no matter what you do.

AS for numbers. I coubt that anniversaries and so forth effected attandance at Louisville. The show of hands at the opening session left no doubt that fisrt timers were in the majority. Consequently loyalty to historical events probably did little to influence attendance. The one day driving distance and a % of membership in total will give you fairly good figures for planning. Special events tied to history may not be a good indicator of attendance. Potential customers and convenience will probably be your best predictors.

I was impressed with the entire Symposium, management, presentations and scheduling. Y'all "git" a gold star for that one.