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Looking for a hollow system?

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hockenbery

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Turners have lot of different preferences.
Most all of the systems out there work. Some are too heavy for me,to move around easily.
I have never liked the response/feedback of the articulated systems; lots of folks love them.

I like the Jamieson handle, with Bosch hollowing bars.
I build my own back rest and laser system. I have use the Jamieson laser and back rest and they work fine.

The Bosch bars work well for me. There is nothing out in the end to get in the way.

Nice thing about his system is that if you want to go bigger I have an 1 1/4 bar I can use with it to go 12" and a little more.
Also if you want to go really big the larger systems are mostly based on the same concept.

Al
 
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john lucas

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I'm a fan of the Monster tool system although I have a home built version of the Jamieson. I like the Carter system but there are a lot more parts than needed and you can't use just anybody's bars. The Monster tool system will let you use other bars (so will the Jamieson) This gives you a lot more choices down the road. Another good system is the Steve Sinner system. Both his and the Monster tool system will take up less space for storing. (some disassembly may be required if you use the laser with either one for compact storage.

http://www.advancedlathetools.com/

http://www.monster-lathe-tools.com/cart.php?target=product&product_id=274&category_id=63
 
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Yeah I looked at both systems and I liked the monster system better but I want one I can use on any size lathe from mini to a full size lathe.
 

john lucas

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You can use the Monster tool on any size lathe. The support system for the captured bar has adaptors to fit most lathes. You may have to buy one for the different height. You would need this kind of adaptor for the rear support on any of the systems other than maybe the Elbow Tool. (assuming your lathes have a different swing size) the Elbow tool fits on your tailstock quill but that assumes that all quill feeds are the same size and I don't know the answer to that.
 

john lucas

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I made my first one with 3/4" bars, 3/8" all thread rod, some nuts, a 1" bushing from Lowes and some set screws and press pins. It was a sort of cobbled together version of Lyle Jamieson's rig. The one I'm using now is a welded together version of the same thing.
I'm wanting a larger one and found the steel in the junk yard this year so will probably build it when the weather gets better. I will probably copy the Steve Sinner version for this larger one. It seems like storing it would be easier.
I made the rear captured rest from wood. It was cheap, quick and easy to build. I thought I would build it out of metal when I had the time but it's worked so well I'm still using it. I will probably take the time to build one out of metal this year.
 
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I have a Kobra - I love it, but it is expensive, big, and heavy. And I think there is a waiting list to get one.. To be completely transparent on this - this is the only mechanical hollowing rig I have ever used so I have nothing to really compare it to.
 
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I think at this time I will try making some version of the mini monster hollower.
I do like these hollower the best.

I did watch an look over the carter hollow roller system and not totally sold on it cause of its functionality. Lock down downs kind of suck set screws not in the greatest places(behind a roller). And so people claim that the system is out of aliment and can not be adjusted. It is either tight and one end or sloppy at the other side of the roller dew to possible tool post uneven?? and for as little hollowing as I'm going to do i can't see the investment just yet.

But I have been impressed with the Trent Bosch hollow bars. I have no comparison for as hands on so take so you wish.

thanks.
 
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Hollowing system

I'm actually with Michael. All of my older hand held cutters fit into my Kobra. It is a little more pricey and heavier than most but I had an Elbo and have done lots of hollowing by hand but the Kobra takes ALL the stress out of hollowing. I especially like the rigidity of the Laser. Easy to set and rock steady.
 
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Kobra/Monster

Here are some shaky cell phone pics to give you an idea of some of the differences between the Kobra and the Monster when discussions come up. It's really not a fair comparison. There's a big difference in price, but they both do what they were designed to do. The extra money for the Kobra gets you more mass, bigger bearings, thicker metal etc. At one time in my youth I owned both a Porsche 928S and a Fiat 500. They both got you there, but the journey was a heck of a lot different.

kobra-monster 003 (Small).JPG kobra-monster 011 (Small).JPG

The bar shown on my Kobra is a 1-1/4" x 24" special order. It comes with a 1" x 16" bar normally.

kobra-monster 010 (Small).JPG kobra-monster 012 (Small).JPG


I ordered an adapter that lets me use my Monster bars on the Kobra, so I can use the Hunter cutter on the Monster bar in the Kobra for most ridge clean up.

I'm still looking for a way to use the Monster cutter heads in the Kobra bar, because the Monster comes with a much more versatile cutter selection. The Kobra also has it's own adjustable tool rest.

kobra-monster 024 (Small).JPG
 
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Hollowing system

Here is one more super inexpensive option. Looks a lot like the Elbo which works just fine but obviously is not quite up to the standards of the monster or Kobra.
I was trying to attach a PDF file but unfortunately I don't know how but could email it to you if you want to have a look.
 

Steve Worcester

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They are all similar, but different. From a shop made Jameson to the Kobra, they will mostly all work but have their limitations. Most of it has to do with how far off the rest can you go "comfortably". You can use aftermarket bars (Bosch, Jordan, homemade) except the Carter, it requires a milled bar to fit in the rollers.
It may be a matter of how much you want to spend and expandability. I have different home made rigs for different sizes, at some point you have to go bigger bar sizes to go further off the tool rest. Regardless of this, you start with one and then expand or branch out to go larger. Over say 8" to 12" off the rest, it goes to a bigger system (for me).
The Kobra is the only one that doesn't get in it's one way (of articulated) in that it will allow you to move each layer of steel under itself. Still pinch points, but it doesn't get in the way in that each "bar" will rotate under the other.
I have used most all of them, and they all have their plusses and minuses.
In a club, ask around as to what each person has and see if you can try them. None of them work for everything. Most of the hollowing I do is 3-10" deep, but diameters plays in there too.
Distance off the tool rest plays a whole different parameter after about 12" where the thickness of bar and the stoutness of the tool itself come into play.
 
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My take on this is what the articulating system does for me. It is about the smoothness of the movement of the tool. The articulation allows me to effortlessly move that tool tip without a death grip. The other important thing that any system does is to keep in check the rotational force of the cutting tip (the downward pressure at the tip while in the cut). I use the Monster and I use up to and including my 3/4' Keltons and Jordan hollowers with out a problem. If I want to hollow a piece and I do not want an entry hole bigger than 1/2" I'm going to have to use a tool with a shaft size of about 3/8". If I want the piece to be 15" tall with that same opening it still has to be around 3/8" but will have to be 16 or 17" long. Will there be vibration, you betcha! But yes you could hollow that piece at that depth and get it done. The size of the rig in that situation means nothing to me as the cut has to be small and the important thing is control especially when making the finish cuts for standard thickness throughout the piece. I have never felt the need to have a beefier system as the Monster has exceeded all my expectations. I agree with Steve that all systems have limitations and if your going to buy one you should try to find one to try.
 

john lucas

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Well there is another factor that hasn't been mentioned. The secondary tool rest in conjunction with the main tool rest keeps the tool cutting on the center line which helps control the cut. The Kobra and monster tools have their own mounting system, the Jamieson and Sinner style need the secondary rest and it works really well. I do find that occasionally I have to twist the secondary rest to get those special cuts under the shoulder. Sometimes even switching the shape of the bar doesn't help so I have to shift it.
I have hollowed as deep as 16" with a 3/4" bar. It really starts chattering at those distances. This is with a 3/16" cutter. Half inch bars start chattering at 8". I haven't done it but it seems like it would require painfully slow cuts with a 3/8" bar anywhere beyond 6". Would love to hear from people who can do that more successfully than I.
I make 3/4" adaptors for my smaller bars so they will work in either my arm brace hand held or my captured bar system.
 

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hockenbery

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Well there is another factor that hasn't been mentioned. The secondary tool rest in conjunction with the main tool rest keeps the tool cutting on the center line which helps control the cut. The Kobra and monster tools have their own mounting system, the Jamieson and Sinner style need the secondary rest and it works really well. I do find that occasionally I have to twist the secondary rest to get those special cuts under the shoulder. Sometimes even switching the shape of the bar doesn't help so I have to shift it.
I have hollowed as deep as 16" with a 3/4" bar. It really starts chattering at those distances. This is with a 3/16" cutter. Half inch bars start chattering at 8". I haven't done it but it seems like it would require painfully slow cuts with a 3/8" bar anywhere beyond 6". Would love to hear from people who can do that more successfully than I.
I make 3/4" adaptors for my smaller bars so they will work in either my arm brace hand held or my captured bar system.

John,
10-12" over the tool rest is about the max for me with a 3/4 bar. With really light cuts you can push further. I use a 1 1/4 bar and that limit is around 18".
I also have found that a 1/8 cutter helps a little bit. The 1/8 are too aggressive for me in small vessels but way deep they don't cut much so they don't vibrate as much.
As you know the further over the tool rest the lighter the cut.
I don't do much over 10" deep.

I slide my secondary rest around a lot.

Al
 
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