Making large bead on inside of rim...?

Discussion in 'Newbie' started by Jamie Straw, May 23, 2016.

  1. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    I have a 10"x3+" round of seasoned Madrone that I'd like to turn tomorrow. Was thinking about making one of those rims that's like a large bead on the inside. Any tips for this? I can imagine the rough shaping, but a little uncertain about getting that nice round shape right up at the top inside edge.
     
  2. john lucas

    john lucas

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    Rough out the shape leaving enough wood to get past any teR out. Then use the skew on its side as a scraper and sneak up on the shape. There are other methods but this is the simplest and safest for most turners. Be very gentle with the toe of the skew cutting the inside wbere the bead meets the wall of the bowl. You can get a catch here. Keep the handle higher than the utti g edge and you should be safe
     
  3. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    Ohhhhkay, I think I'll practice that one on a different bowl. Definitely didn't think of using a skew. Thanks, John!
     
  4. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    I think John was typing on his phone.....

    I guess it depends on how big of a bead you want, and where you are putting it. If you have a flat rim, and a shallow bowl, access is fairly easy. Deeper makes it more practical. The place where the bead joins the wall is the tricky part. This is where a negative rake scraper comes in handy. If it has the same bevel on both sides, and a 1/4 round nose, you could use it right up to the joint.

    robo hippy
     
  5. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    Well, speak of the devil. I used a negative rake scraper (NRS) today for the first time. One of the really good turners in the club, who makes wonderful boxes sold in local galleries, modified two scrapers for me recently (1/2" and 3/4"). I had seen him demo his technique, but got my first chance at it today, and it was pretty slick. I can totally see where it would come in handie for this bead-type thing. Just to clarify, when you say "same bevel on both sides" you're speaking of top and bottom, right? And "Deeper...more practical" are you speaking of the bowl-with-bead being more practical if it's deep?

    I'll post a picture later of the NRSs I have, in case they have certain things they'll be better at than others. They sure are good at hollowing out the inside of a little box. Much more forgiving than a spindle gouge.
     
  6. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    You can also buy a set of beading tools from Dave Schweitzer to easily make some perfectly rounded beads.
     
  7. Joe Greiner

    Joe Greiner

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    Like a Captive Ring

    For the inside bead at the rim, a right-side captive ring tool, of the desired size, would be ideal. Another option for the undercut would be a salvaged Allen key sharpened like an Oland tool at the tip; mount in a very large pin vise and bend rightward to place the tip in line with the handle to reduce torque.
     
  8. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    I have one of his small beading tools, but for larger beads, I feel I should be able to do them in a more traditional way.
     
  9. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    Mmmmm, very interesting. Will think about it!
     
  10. john lucas

    john lucas

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    The skew on its side is a negative rake scraper. Theres another good tool fir turning beads. Its called a 3 point or pyramid tool. Its a round rod ground with 3 surfaces so it looks like a pyramid ( except it has 3 planes insfead of 4. .) You push the tip into what will be the bottom of the bead abd then pull the tool out and cut the bead from the bottom to the top with a scraping action. I think i show that tool in action in my bead turning video. I just got home and found it. Look about 6 minutes in and you'll see beads with the skew flat and then beads with the 3 point tool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjYehUsMdB4
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  11. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    John beat me to it, NRS's started out as skew chisels. I do have one that is about 70/20 which is better suited for the insides of scoops and boxes, though I need a specialized one for boxes. The handy thing about the skew type NRS is that you can sharpen with the burr on either side, so for a bead inside a bowl, you would want the burr on one side for the up hill side of the bead, and on the other side for the down hill side.

    I figure it would be easier to form a bead closer to the rim rather than down inside a bowl where the shape of the bowl would make it difficult to get the tools into proper position. I don't do much with with the ring tools, but think Doug Thompson's fluteless gouge would also work, or a scraper with a ) shaped nose. The lower part should be able to get all the way up to the bead.

    robo hippy
     
  12. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    Reed, I'm going to start a separate thread on Negative Rake Scrapers. Our group has a fabulous box maker who demos and uses NRSs for exquisite results on his little boxes (which sell very well, BTW). I've talked with a couple of long-time pro turners who are losing their skepticism about the NRS and playing with their own grinds. New thread will have pics.
     
  13. odie

    odie

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    This thread got me to thinking!.....Uh, oh......:D

    Out of curiosity, Jamie......Do you consider the rounded bead more aesthetically appealing than a squared bead? I had been doing the squared bead for about the past ten years, because I thought it was distinctive, and nobody else seemed to be doing it that way.....like this purple heart bowl shown below. To my mind, I was thinking the squared bead looked better than the rounded bead......but, it could be my personal perspective isn't in tune with how others perceive it........

    1429 purple heart (4).JPG
    Now, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm missing out by not doing the rounded bead, like this curly maple bowl that's out in my shop right now. To me, it doesn't make much difference, because either way is just as easy to do for me. I'd like to have pleasing shapes for my customers, and if there is a difference in preference, I'd like to satisfy that interest.......

    IMG_2311.JPG

    To tell the truth, I hadn't planned on making the rounded bead anymore, because I'd been happy with the squared bead look.....but, because of this thread, I decided to go back to making the rounded bead once again.

    The last time I made the rounded bead, I was doing it with a 1/2" R/N scraper w/ground bur. My whole process of prepping scrapers has undergone a host of changes in the past five years......and, as a result, I did this curly maple bead with the R/N 1/2" raised bur scraper. I did have to make the initial bead a little taller than I do for the squared bead, because the initial prep for the final finished bead makes it necessary to take a little more off the overall height than the former.

    ko
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  14. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    Odie I do not call that a bead. To me it is incised lines. There may be a better name.
     
  15. odie

    odie

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    I believe you are speaking of what I refer to as "detail grooves" with the "incised lines" reference, Gerald.

    What I'm referring to, is the raised rounded protrusion that more closely resembles a bead in spindle turning practice exercises. This "bead", shown in my photos, is what separates the rim from the interior of the bowl, or maybe the purist would prefer to call it a platter! This is what I believe Jamie was referring to in this thread.......but, maybe I've got it all wrong! :confused:

    ko
     
  16. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I would call it the lip or rim of a winged bowl. I think it would look better rounded and that the edge f the wing also ought to be rounded. The square edges conveys a sense of hardness to the overall form that doesn't quite seem to fit with the softer shape of the bowl.
     
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  17. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    Thanks for the clarification. By the way I prefer rounded, but have not done one that way so just a style preference.
     
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  18. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Ditto what Bill said. Lip or rim and the wing.
    Platter or bowl is a gray area. Makers decision.

    On small bowls the squared rim works quite well and looks nice to me.
    Rounding Works well If you keep the full even thickness of the wall.

    Stewart Batty used to do a terrific winged bowl demo in which he shows and discusses the wing placement. Even with the top of the rim, just below the top of the rim like Kelly's top photo, midway down the wall, or having the wing at the foot of the bowl.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016

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