mandatory use of face shields

Discussion in 'Woodturning Health & Safety' started by Art Deboo, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. Art Deboo

    Art Deboo

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    I am looking for some feed back regarding the mandatory use of face shields for all who demonstrate or use lathes at your clubs.
    This is not an issue at all regarding new folks who come to learn in our hands on program.
    It is an issue when it comes to our demonstrators.
    Is there other guilds out there that have a mandatory policy in place regarding there use?
    What are your thoughts regarding this practise?
    Do you have any issues regarding the enforcement of this type of policy?
     
  2. n7bsn

    n7bsn

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    Art
    All I can see is I seldom see face shields at club meetings or symposiums. I have heard many demonstrators explain they normally wear one, but don't for demo's so they can more clearly explain what they are doing
    I know our club doesn't require it
     
  3. Malcolm Tibbetts

    Malcolm Tibbetts

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    I admit to not always using one in my shop, but for demonstratioms, I almost never use one. Even with a lapel mic, it makes communications difficult.
     
  4. john lucas

    john lucas

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    Ditto what was just said. I find a face shield very irritating when I demo. When turning things like ornaments and my hand mirrors the possibility of injury is extremely slim so I don't wear a face shield when turning those at home either.
    Bowls, platters, and segmented turnings that might explode I do wear one. When I demo these I make sure my wood is sound, I don't turn large ones, and often turn at slower speeds to reduce the danger. At that point I assume some risk and don't wear the shield. I do mention that you should and this is for the convenience of the demo only.
    Mostly it's just trying to talk through the face shield that is difficult. I talk the whole time I'm turning trying to explain how I use the tool and why. I can't really put a face shield down, turn a little, and then pull it up and talk.
    I do wear glasses. I don't think anyone should demo without at least a pair of safety glasses, even small stuff. If you blow up an ornament it probably won't hurt you but could easily damage an eye. Not worth the risk.
    We have a fairly new club in our town and the new president doesn't turn with any kind of eye protection and he turns at high speed. I'm supposed to do a demo on safety and you can bet I will mention that along with showing some photos of injured turners who have had bowls blow up. I'll also be discussing how to turn while standing out of the line of fire. I had an old wooden faceplate blow up on me a few weeks ago. I was standing out of the line of fire so no injuries. Of course sometimes you can't and that's when the face shield comes off the shelf.
     
  5. Rick M

    Rick M

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    Perhaps not absolutely mandatory, but our club strongly suggests that demonstrators (club members) wear a full face shield--even to the point of supplying one to the turner for the duration of the demo, if needed. Yes, we use lapel mics and it can make for some awkward interruptions to the turner's natural flow and banter, but I only recall one individual (a production turner) who insisted on proceeding without one, but did wear safety glasses. No demonstrator has refused to repeat something said while under the hood if requested.

    With typically 60 - 75 (or more) members and guests at meetings, we also separate the rows of seating to open up a "safety aisle" along the "line of fire" coming off the lathe. Safety is addressed at every meeting and workshop, and attendees are encouraged to speak out if an unsafe situation develops during the demo.

    The hardest part I find about wearing a good face shield is remembering you can't just pucker up and blow the shavings off the work at hand :D.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2010
  6. MichaelMouse

    MichaelMouse

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    Always an interesting topic. I suppose we ought to ask, as few do, whether any face shield of the thin plexiglass type really provides much impact protection at all if a relatively heavy object flies off the lathe at low speed, or a relatively light one departs at one of the high speeds the variable speed people like to use. The answer is, at best - maybe. It's really to protect the eyes, as Norm says, so the part that interferes with speaking is unimportant anyway.

    Best protection is to stay out of the throw zone and keep your spectators out of it as well. Or put them behind a barrier. Recommend steel mesh with a flat black coat of paint. Half inch or even larger probably just fine, since a piece of wood which might fit through in a lucky throw would flutter in the wind and fall before it got to a spectator at four feet. Plexi is a great dust collector, so I consider it unsuitable.

    Glasses, a close toolrest, and a body position out of the zone are enough in the direction of the demonstrator.

    Look at "hold harmless" agreements signed by the user as one way of getting your message out.
     
  7. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Would it be worthwhile for the AAW to form an ad hoc committee to investigate potential options for providing adequate safety for demonstrators with the goal of not restricting their ability to communicate or conducting their program.

    While everybody seems to agree in principle that face shields should be used, the practice of not using them speaks louder than a disclaimer of saying, "do as I say and not as I do". We all agree that the typical lapel microphone works poorly if wearing a face shield, but there may be other options that would perform satisfactorily. An example would be microphones used by military pilots who wear helmets and face shields, yet are able to communicate clearly while also not being visually restricted by the face shield. The typical polycarbonate face shield used by woodturners can be plagued by reflections if the lighting is not right. There are probably several ways of dealing with this annoying problem including anti-reflective coatings on the face shield and possibly blocking some overhead lights with a visor.
     
  8. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    I almost never wear a face shield. I do wear glasses because I can't see well enough without them. The face shields we use, are basically only good for keeping chips out of our face, and have almost no impact resistance. I do stand out of the line of fire. Part of the reason is common sense, and the other part is wet wood spray. It is a habit now. When demonstrating, I agree that they are in the way. As to having them be mandatory, I don't know. Supposedly we are intelligent enough to know when we are doing some thing foolish, and experience is a very effective teacher if we make mistakes at slower speeds. I do include in my demos that some of the things I do are 'professional driver on closed course, do not attempt', followed by if you want to try this, slow your speeds down, slacken the belt, and take little bites. I include a section on things that make your bowl explode, and how to avoid them. I do urge turners to use only good solid wood, and if you are turning some thing questionable, then slow down, use a LOT of caution, stand out of the line of fire, and wear a face shield. I also borrow a quote from 'Pats Fan' on the Wood Net Forums: "when sphincter tightening exceeds chuck tightening, you have a problem."

    robo hippy
     
  9. john lucas

    john lucas

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    Most clubs I demo for do not have lapel mikes. A few do. The sound is really bad when you talk through a face shield with an on camera mike.
     
  10. Bart Leetch

    Bart Leetch

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    Its great that this should be discussed. I catch my self forgetting to put my face shield on most probably because I've not done any turning for awhile. I have an older face shield that has a few scratches on it that has been stored in a garbage bag. I just had the LOML make a bag out of an old bath towel to put my shield in. I plan to rinse the shield under the faucet & blow it off with the air hose & then store it in the bag, I hope this will decrease the likelihood of scratches.
     
  11. RussFairfield

    RussFairfield

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    I always wear safety glasses over the regular glasses for demonstrations because they have side shields, and bridge the nose gap. That takes care of all but an explosion of heavy wood, and we shouldn't be using questionable pieces of wood anyway.

    The cheap Radio Shack lapel mikes are worse than nothing because they only work when they are under the face shield. That gives them the sound quality of talking inside of a garbage can because of the echo under the face shield. Even worse is that every breath is amplified to the audience.

    Don't look to aircraft and similar throat contact mikes. Their sound quality is
    isn't much different from the cheap lapel mike. They are just more sturdy.

    There may be a solution, but it won't be cheap for either the demonstartor or the club.
     
  12. NBHowe

    NBHowe

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    Face Shield

    As far as I know the club I belong to does not have a mandatory face shield rule for demo's or any other time. About 75% of demonstrators wear one, and I'd say about 99% wear some form of PPE. even if it's just saftey glasses.
    Talking to the crowd whilst turning and making yourself heard when wearing a F/S can be differcult.
    At our Hands on meeting we try to encourage people to use them but even if they wear them at home they do not bring and use them to the hands on meeting.
    I have been a pipe welder for over 36yrs and would not be alive today had I not been wearing a face shield the day a grinding wheel blew apart, parts of the wheel hit the face shield and knocked me out. The F/S headband had chunks of the wheel imbedded in it. Had I not been wearing the F/S those chunks would have penertated my skull like a bullet.
    That was over 30yrs ago and I am still a pipe welder, I wear and use PPE as nessarsery every day at work and in my shop at home. I allways wear a F/S when turning in fact puttting it on is just part of getting ready to turn.
    I am not a saftey nut and do not belive in wrapping people in cottern wool, but some things just make sense. When turning it makes sense to wear eye protection at least, full face protection is even better.
    I know that welding and turning are differant but the reason to wear a F/S is the same To protect the wearer.
    Nigel
     
  13. Gary Chester

    Gary Chester

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    Just like the seat belt in the car... I don't feel comfortable without my face shield.
     
  14. john lucas

    john lucas

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    We just need air bags built into our turning smock. When it senses a projectile it fires deflecting the object. Of course it might push your skew into your neck or bounce you backwards 10 feet when it hits the lathe. There are still a few bugs to work out on this invention.
     
  15. Brodie Brickey

    Brodie Brickey

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    I did a demo out in Arizona last year and wore a face shield. One of the attendees noted that when I wore the face shield I pitched my voice to carry and he could hear clearly vs when I lifted up and talked I didn't speak loudly enough. This was a small group of 15 or so turners and no mic was available.

    The club I'm a member of may not have a policy of requiring face shields, but many of the demonstrators use them or glasses. I don't think they would allow it to continue if some form of safety glass wasn't between the eyes and the wood.
     
  16. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    If I have a lapel mic I wear a face shield. some clubs have them.

    If I don't have a mic, I don't wear a face shield.

    I think wearing a face shield is a good idea.

    -al
     
  17. Ruth Niles

    Ruth Niles

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    I totally understand the safety of a face shield. I can't help but wonder how many pieces are flying off the lathe or exploding during demos.....or in your own shop?

    A face shield is only as good as safe turning techniques, a good piece of wood or the proper tool properly sharpened.

    I've seen guys put on a face shield and think they are invincible, they are more aggressive and become less attentive to details that might signal danger.

    Ruth
     
  18. Robert Manning

    Robert Manning member

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    I value my vision, so I hang my face shield from a hook that dangles from the ceiling in such a way that the shield hangs at eye level. The hook is just above my height so the shield is in my way as I stand at the lathe. This helps me remember to always wear it. When I swivel the headstock to turn anything over 14", I wear both the face shield and safety glasses. We all have one extra eye, but I would hate to lose one.
     
  19. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    And just so that folks don't get too complacent over the idea of an "extra" eye, just in case one gets knocked out, it really isn't quite the same as a "spare" (as in spare tire). We do much better with both. With only one eye, we no longer have depth perception. Depth perception may not seem like a big deal until we no longer have it.
     
  20. Robert Manning

    Robert Manning member

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    How would you explain the extra arm and leg?
     

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