Narrowing down sanding-kit choices

Discussion in 'Newbie' started by Jamie Straw, Sep 12, 2015.

  1. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    More questions for Odie

    Are you saying the Velcro on the back of the disc wears out before the abrasive does? or is more the hook part that's on the backer? I'm pretty good about tossing an abrasive when the actual grit wears out, didn't realize the Velcro would give up first.

    If you have time some day, could you post a picture of this set-up. Not sure I'm following, but like the idea of being able to customize when need be.

    I'm not seeing flex-edge discs on the Packard page for Power Lock. What kind do you use?

    Seems to be the general consensus, I figured just the lower grits for power sanding.
     
  2. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    Owen, I just finished watching two of Vince's videos -- they really helped, thanks! I found the starter kits, just have to decide between blue and green.
     
  3. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    Done! It's blue!

    Ordered the 2-3/8" and 3-3/8" blue starter kits. Not much different from green, but seem to keep people happy so that's it! Appreciate not only the helpful videos on Vince's site, but also the fact that he doesn't gouge shipping, and ships USPS instead of Brown Truck or FedEx. USPS is always faster for me (Northwest corner) and less expensive.

    Temp shock was too much for me today -- 109° yesterday, NW cold today, and I was exhausted from the trip. Back to the lathe tomorrow! Am working on my Holey Bowley bowl.;)

    Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread! You the best!!!
     
  4. odie

    odie

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    It's not the Velcro on the back of the individual disc that wears out, but the matching Velcro on the backing pad that wore out too fast for my likeing. Eventually, it starts slinging discs. At that point, the only thing that can be done, is replacement of the Velcro surface (pita), or replace the pad/mandrel. The Powerlock pads do wear at the edges, but they can be revived by cutting down the diameter. They do last for many years, and are replaceable. The mandrels never wear out.

    I worked in the shop today, and took the photo you asked for. The Powerlock backing pad can be changed in diameter to better fit certain tasks, by reducing the diameter of the rubber backing while spinning it on a drill and subsequently applying it to an abrasive belt, or disc. I use my 6x48 60gt belt for this. Also, in another photo you'll see that a couple backing mandrels have been shortened to accommodate particular tasks, as well. In that photo, there are several modified backing pads for comparison on size possibilities. The smaller the pad, the better it will allow a powerlock disc to flex though curves. Both standard and flex edge discs will flex, but the thinner, more rigid standard disc flexes less than the flex edge will.

    I believe the flex edge discs are available from a couple of woodturner's sources, and off hand, can't remember the second one. I know that CSUSA does carry the flex edge discs, though, and I normally buy from them. https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/search?term=power+lock I use both 2" and 3" discs, but primarily the 2".

    There is a comparison photo of two 180gt 2" discs in my hand. The one on the left is the standard disc, while the one on the right is the flex edge. The flex edge is noticeably thicker with a material the bends much easier. The standard disc remains fairly rigid, but it will also flex somewhat.

    There is also a couple of photos of my lathe during sanding operations. Notice there are several adjustable height arm rests there. These allow me to brace my arms for sanding......something I feel is important to good sanding.

    The Merit Powerlock discs last a long time, but they will not last if the surface prep requires a lot of sanding. The target objective is to do as little sanding as possible.......not use sanding as a crutch for overcoming poor sharpening and tool handling prior to the sanding stage of operations.

    ko
     

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    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
  5. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    Odie, thanks for the info and taking the time for pictures, really helps me understand your system. Also, the idea of arm rests is a great one that I might not have thought of. I like how you organize things!

    I'm going to try Vince's system. For now, I'm such an occasional turner, I think the pads/mandrels will last long enough. Vince has addressed that problem with his "innerface" pads (I think he means "interface). If you're curious about the set-up, you can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olIp4OjpL7o

    I'm sure that, down the road, there will be times when I want to try something a little different, so your information will be bookmarked for reference. The detail you gave is very helpful. Thanks for your time!
     
  6. odie

    odie

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    You are welcome, Jamie.....:D

    I have been aware of Vince's Woodenwonders, but haven't seen the video. Now I have. That's a clever idea he has about never actually using the basic backing pad for applying the disc to. It does seem to address the one big issue I've had with Velcro sanding pads.....

    I've been using the merit powerlocks for so long, that I've become accustomed to using them......and, am satisfied with the results I'm getting. I'm not trying to convince anyone that powerlocks are best......except for my own evolved methods of using them. This is what I explained in another post. Once you use any of the popular and available methods for long enough, you're bound to solve any problems that come up.

    Good luck with the "innerface pads"

    ko
     
  7. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Use the power lock some.
    Mostly when doing heavy sanding to remove material when shaping a carving.
    Something I learned from Michael Peterson a long time ago.
    I find the power lock pads too stiff for inside curves.

    I use hook and loop on bowls and hollow forms.
    I use interface pads mostly with abranet discs
    The hook and loop products have evolved a great deal in the past decade.

    Al
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
  8. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    Some of the first hook and loop discs I bought did have separation problems and I had a few discs go zinging past my ears. That hasn't been a problem in years. The hooks do wear off eventually. Much more quickly if you are using higher speeds, and higher pressure, both of which generate more heat. I did try a set of the 'wave' pads years ago, and thought they were junk. The over size discs that Vince has do the same thing if you use a smaller pad. They do crinkle a bit but that is no problem. The only problem I have had with things coming apart are with the soft interface pads. This seems to be consistent with all the different ones out there. My theory is that most are made from open cell foam, and it just doesn't have enough surface area (as in lots of holes), so the soft loop part of the pad pulls off. This might be a bit more of a problem with Vince's 'micro' hooks which really grip hard. I do gently slip my thumb between the pad and disc, and gently lift, but they do fail eventually. I have yet to find any disc that cuts better or last longer than Vince's blue discs. The Norton Dry Ice discs do, but they cost a lot more per disc.

    Odie, that is a really interesting approach for the sanding discs. Are you sanding with just, or mostly the edge of the disc? One thing that I don't like with the stiff discs, is that I would get scratch marks from the edge of the disc, which was bad when sanding with 400 grit. To get extended life out of my discs, I sand the outside with the middle portion of the disc, and the inside more with the edge of the disc.


    robo hippy
     
  9. odie

    odie

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    Howdy Robo.....

    Yes, it's very possible there's been some improvement in the hook and loop material since I last experimented with them.....and, that's been well over a couple decades ago. This is a minor consideration, since the versatility of the powerlock discs far exceed the abilities of any foam backers to sand varying degrees of curvature. In order to fully understand this advantage, it's my opinion that someone doing cursory testing the powerlock discs probably won't realize what kind of advantages there are, or how to capitalize on them without some serious time and evaluation invested in the learning process.

    The goal is to apply as much surface area of the powerlock discs while sanding, at all times. If the surface is close to flat, such as the bottom interior of the bowl, then I normally would choose the full sized rubber backer with a thin stiff pad. As the sanding progresses through a curve, then a cut down rubber backer with a less supported edge of either the thin disc, or the flex edge disc works nicely. As the curve gets more pronounced, then the flex edge disc, with the cut down rubber backer is best. From mostly flat to a tight curve, the utilized surface area of the disc diminishes from a nearly complete surface area of the disc being applied, to that close to the rim for the very tightest of inside curves. I have also experienced some digging in of the edge of the disc, but not for quite some time. It's all a matter of choosing the right rubber backer diameter, in conjunction with the right style of disc......and applying both correct presentation, and pressure.

    ko
     
  10. Dean Center

    Dean Center

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    Reed's last note reminded me of something you should know, Jamie. When you go to remove the hook and loop disc from the pad, use two hands--one to hold the disc and one to hold the pad. If you try to be speedy and just peel the disc off, the hook portion will tear off the pad, or the pad will start to come apart. I've been using the pad sanders for several years and I'm still trying to learn how to apply light enough pressure when sanding. So I'm pretty hard on the sanding pads. But on the plus side, I've gotten pretty good at repairing them.
     
  11. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    Too funny, can I send mine out for repair?;) One thing about being retired, I have stopped trying to do everything fast, so I'll keep your advice in mind. Thought I was going out to sand today and try everything out, but got sidelined.
     
  12. KellyDunn

    KellyDunn

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    Jamie, a lot of good information here. I bought a sheet of replacement velcro with the sticky on it from sanding glove. Its easy to replace the velcro on the pads. If you use an interface pad though the main velcro on the pad stays just fine. For me I carefully with a sharp knife cut off the old velcro. I then put th epad in my drill and turn the grinder on. I run the pad over the grinder to level it out. It does have a learning curve to do that. Then cut a new velcro from the sheet and stick it on and your ready. I keep a pile of old pads and then do a bunch in one session. I really just need to get more interface pads. I have been buying 1 yard sheets of Indasa and cutting my own discs. One I leave the edges on and the next one will be round. So half of my discs have extra paper over the edges. When drawing circles next to each other you will see what I mean. I do one two and three inch discs. Most one inch and many two are leftovers from three inch discs. If you do this dedicate a pair of old scissors.
     
  13. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    At the rate I'm (not) going, it'll be awhile before I wear out a pad, but will definitely keep this stuff in mind. Where do you get your 1-yard Indasa sheets? I found 25-yard-long rolls at Online Industrial Supply, but that seems a bit much.:rolleyes:
     
  14. KellyDunn

    KellyDunn

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    Jamie, yes I get them from Industrial Abrasives. I guess since I turn for a living you just cant have enough tools or sanding supplies. When a sanding disc flies off the pad you are still sanding. That means you just destroyed the velcro. For me at least that is the most common way. True that over time it does wear out. I have never had an Indasa disc fly off a pad. I however have burned a bridge or so with papers that the grip just separates from the sandpaper. At least the fabric kept the disc from being trashed. So when folks give you a solid thumbs up on sanding discs they are also saying the discs stay together. Pay good money and it should buy a good product.
     
  15. Raul McCai

    Raul McCai

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    Glad I found this thread. Thanks for the info
    I have become disappointed in my PSA disc set up and was looking for something better.
     
  16. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    If you're thinking "Vince" I'll bet you'll be happy. The kit I received, and additional stuff, has all been very high quality. He answered my 1 email very quickly.
     
  17. KellyDunn

    KellyDunn

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    Jamie, its been awhile since I last ordered from Industrial Abrasives but I think a one yard sheet was maybe about $17. I dont care if they get folded so have them fill a flat rate box.
    I started out using psa discs on smaller pads but the heat just threw them off. Folks that like regular paper keep a can of 3M 77 spray to keep regular sandpaper on a disc. So I went to velcro from one to three inch. Seemed to much work to spray the disc each time I wanted to change paper. I do use psa on five inch pads for exterior sanding.
     
  18. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    Thanks for the info, Kelly. I'm diverted to spindle-type turning from now through Christmas, but plan to get back to bowls and power sanding after that. I have used Vince's set-up a couple times, the Velcro is pretty tenacious. No desire to chase small pads around the shop, LOL, so will stick (so to speak) with the Velcro!
     

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