Need Your Input on a New Lathe

[Tony Maness]

Anyway, that's my two cents worth. Some of this may be useful to you, and some not......but, it all applies to me and what I do with a lathe

Great insights. Thanks for taking the time to share lessons learned.

 

[Roger Chandler]

I think some of the newer generation of Grizzly tools will rival the quality of Jet or Powermatic easily. I have used at least a dozen or so different bandsaws over the years including theDelta, Jet and Powermatic [I am talking about the 14" class saws] and my last saw purchase was a Grizzly G0555LX.........it has great fit, finish, casting and runs as smooth as I have ever seen on that class saw. It also has the best detensioning system I have seen on a 14" class saw. Premium roller bearings top and bottom and fine adjustments with a knob. In the year I have had it it is a super performer.

I have a larger Jet 18" bandsaw, and the Grizzly definitely stands with it in quality..........I think because of the number of different models they sell, not everyone goes for the premium features. They have price points that make purchase attractive, but unless one knows what makes for a quality machine, then they can make a mistake purchasing a lower end model.......which is fine for the occasional user/hobbyist, but for someone who demands high performance, then get one of their higher end models...whether lathe, bandsaw, tablesaw or whatever.........I think that is where the reputation has been in question. You do get what you pay for!

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

Grizzly is generally a great value and I think of them as basically replacing Delta in the market. No manufacturer has a consistent lineup across all machines though IMHO so I take each machine as it is. I like my Grizz 8" jointer quite a bit. However I'm still scratching my head at how Grizzly requires a 15 Amp breaker for a 3HP lathe motor, Powermatic requires a 20 Amp breaker for a 3HP lathe motor, and Laguna calls for a 30 Amp breaker for a 3HP lathe motor. I would not expect these to all perform the same.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Grizzly is generally a great value and I think of them as basically replacing Delta in the market. No manufacturer has a consistent lineup across all machines though IMHO so I take each machine as it is. I like my Grizz 8" jointer quite a bit. However I'm still scratching my head at how Grizzly requires a 15 Amp breaker for a 3HP lathe motor, Powermatic requires a 20 Amp breaker for a 3HP lathe motor, and Laguna calls for a 30 Amp breaker for a 3HP lathe motor. I would not expect these to all perform the same.

What Grizzly does is the same thing that they do on several, if not all, of their other lathes. They use the INPUT electrical power and not the correct mechanical OUTPUT power. As a rule of thumb, you can figure that the mechanical OUTPUT is about 2/3 of the input power. The efficiency of a low cost imported three phase induction motor is generally in the 60% to 70% range. More realistically, I would think that the motor is about 2 HP.

Their claims are deliberately misleading because horsepower is a measure of mechanical and not electrical power.

Just looking at the picture of the lathe on the Grizzly web site, it is easy to see that the motor is too small to be 3 HP.

None of this is to say that the lathe isn't a decent machine. Two horsepower really is adequate for all but the most heavy duty needs, so I wonder why they feel the need to adopt a Sears-like marketing model for advertising their stationary power tools. Didn't they see what happened to the reputation that Sears once enjoyed? Well, they aren't quite as bad as Sears. At least they don't use the term "max developed horsepower".

 

[Hu Lowery]

motor information

What Grizzly does is the same thing that they do on several, if not all, of their other lathes. They use the INPUT electrical power and not the correct mechanical OUTPUT power. As a rule of thumb, you can figure that the mechanical OUTPUT is about 2/3 of the input power. The efficiency of a low cost imported three phase induction motor is generally in the 60% to 70% range. More realistically, I would think that the motor is about 2 HP.

Their claims are deliberately misleading because horsepower is a measure of mechanical and not electrical power.

Just looking at the picture of the lathe on the Grizzly web site, it is easy to see that the motor is too small to be 3 HP.

None of this is to say that the lathe isn't a decent machine. Two horsepower really is adequate for all but the most heavy duty needs, so I wonder why they feel the need to adopt a Sears-like marketing model for advertising their stationary power tools. Didn't they see what happened to the reputation that Sears once enjoyed? Well, they aren't quite as bad as Sears. At least they don't use the term "max developed horsepower".

First off, a disclaimer: This information is pulled partially from the Grizzly site and partially from the Burt site. However, Burt is willing to modify their base offering to suit the buyer and of course Grizzly can after delivery although I think it is more likely for Burt to build all the way to finished product rather than a buyer discarding new components to replace them.

Anyway, according to Burt their 18x47 machine which seems to correspond to the 733 in all aspects except paint, puts out 1500watts, no indicated input. Watts to horsepower conversion indicates 2 horsepower the same as the Grizzly advertised horsepower for the 733.

Burt does give the input and output watts for their 22x42 machine which seems to closely correspond to the 766. Input watts are 2200 and output is 1500, still 2 horsepower of course. However, the Grizzly specifications indicate two significant differences, one I don't know the meaning of, the other seemingly more important however I am no expert on electric motors and even my gas engine stuff is from long ago.

Here are the two differences: The 733 motor has a inverter rated for 2hp, the 766 has an inverter rated for 3hp. With rotary converters that doesn't mean a thing, no idea what if anything it means with these electronic inverters. The second difference is more interesting. The 766 motor is rated at 1725 RPM, the 733 at 3560 RPM. If memory serves Horsepower equals torque x RPM.

Does this mean we are getting much more torque from the 766 motor at a given RPM? Particularly in the low range? Generally when we are considering the load a motor or engine can handle torque is more critical than horsepower.

I don't really know what all this means, hopefully Bill or someone else that does will enlighten us.

If the image works it is the comparison between the "two horse" 733 and "three horse" 766 at the griz site.

Hu

 

[Rick Doganiero]

I don't have much to add with what has been said prior, all good advice.

I turn on a Robust AB, coming from a Powermatic 3520B. I had no issues with the Powermate. An opportunity arose for me to purchase the AB and I took I. I have been turning on it for about 4yrs with no regrets.

I do second the idea of going to a large turning conference where you can see and touch the machines All the top contenders are great machines. Some lathes like the Stubby and Vicmarc don't look like much in a webpage photo, however, I was impressed with them when I got a chance to see one up close.

Good luck in your search.

Rick D

 

[Tony Maness]

And The WINNER IS??

Thanks for all of your input, options, and operational experience. I have chosen to purchase a Robust lathe. The order is in. There is a back log of orders, so, there are others that made the same choice. I will be turning on a Robust lathe this July!

 

[Bill Boehme]

First off, a disclaimer: This information is pulled partially from the Grizzly site and partially from the Burt site. However, Burt is willing to modify their base offering to suit the buyer and of course Grizzly can after delivery although I think it is more likely for Burt to build all the way to finished product rather than a buyer discarding new components to replace them.

Anyway, according to Burt their 18x47 machine which seems to correspond to the 733 in all aspects except paint, puts out 1500watts, no indicated input. Watts to horsepower conversion indicates 2 horsepower the same as the Grizzly advertised horsepower for the 733.

Burt does give the input and output watts for their 22x42 machine which seems to closely correspond to the 766. Input watts are 2200 and output is 1500, still 2 horsepower of course. However, the Grizzly specifications indicate two significant differences, one I don't know the meaning of, the other seemingly more important however I am no expert on electric motors and even my gas engine stuff is from long ago.

Here are the two differences: The 733 motor has a inverter rated for 2hp, the 766 has an inverter rated for 3hp. With rotary converters that doesn't mean a thing, no idea what if anything it means with these electronic inverters. The second difference is more interesting. The 766 motor is rated at 1725 RPM, the 733 at 3560 RPM. If memory serves Horsepower equals torque x RPM.

Does this mean we are getting much more torque from the 766 motor at a given RPM? Particularly in the low range? Generally when we are considering the load a motor or engine can handle torque is more critical than horsepower.

I don't really know what all this means, hopefully Bill or someone else that does will enlighten us.

If the image works it is the comparison between the "two horse" 733 and "three horse" 766 at the griz site.

Hu

Well, if the only thing that is different is the larger HP rated inverter, then it would not mean anything UNLESS the inverter in the 733 was being used in "variable torque" mode rather than "constant torque" mode. Here is what that means: A motor is capable of a certain full load torque when running at its "base" speed. Base speed is the nameplate speed when running on 60 Hz AC power, typically about 1750 RPM. In constant torque mode, the inverter is capable of putting out sufficient current to the motor so that its full load torque can be achieved at all speeds from minimum up to base speed. In variable torque mode, the inverter is operating in a performance region where it has to reduce the output current to prevent exceeding the maximum power rating of the output transistors (you don't want to let the magic smoke out of a solid state device). So, why would the inverter be operating in variable torque mode rather than constant torque mode, you might ask? The answer might be that The inverter really isn't a true 2 HP inverter. It might actually be a 1.5 HP inverter, but could be used with a 2 HP motor provided that there are some restrictions on motor performance (variable torque) that keeps the inverter from becoming toast. Likewise, the "three horsepower inverter" might possibly be a 2 HP inverter for constant torque output and able to work with a 3 HP motor using reduced performance variable torque output. If this speculation is correct, then it is clear that a 2 HP motor on the 766 would have better performance at speeds below base if the inverter is operating in constant torque mode.

BTW, I have discussed in the past some of the problems with using ordinary three-phase motors with an inverter and the reason that theyh may fail much earlier than their normal service life. For those who are interested in wading through a long discussion in layman's terms (sort of), here is a paper on motor insulation and inverter induced stresses. Here is another much simpler paper describing inverter fundamentals for the layman. Finally, here is a link to a site that short descriptions on more than you ever knew existed about electric motors.

Your question, "are we getting more toreque from the 766 than the 733 at a given RPM"? The answer would be, "maybe yes" if my speculations about their possible shenanigans are correct. It is also possible that marketing types are too confused to understand anything and have incorrectly described the lathe performance characteristics.

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

Wonderful insights Bill. Thank you for sharing. I for one will be checking out those links.

Doug

 

[Hy Tran]

Thanks for all of your input, options, and operational experience. I have chosen to purchase a Robust lathe. The order is in. There is a back log of orders, so, there are others that made the same choice. I will be turning on a Robust lathe this July!

Hello, Tony,

I too placed an order for a Robust (in my case, a couple of weeks ago). I asked for delivery after the Symposium. I had the chance to also try a Powermatic and a Oneway (local club members). Both are really nice machines (especially compared to my Shopsmith ); but what sealed the deal for the Robust was: (1) A pay increase at work that pays for the Robust after a few years, and (2) little touches that I think I will value over the next 15-25 years, such as the moveable pendant, the tilt-away tailstock, the stainless steel ways, the toolrest lock, spindle lock, slightly easier belt changing, and that Robust will make slightly shorter legs for me without any fuss.

Best,

Hy

 

[Steve Worcester]

Hello, Tony,

I too placed an order for a Robust (in my case, a couple of weeks ago). I asked for delivery after the Symposium. I had the chance to also try a Powermatic and a Oneway (local club members). Both are really nice machines (especially compared to my Shopsmith ); but what sealed the deal for the Robust was: (1) A pay increase at work that pays for the Robust after a few years, and (2) little touches that I think I will value over the next 15-25 years, such as the moveable pendant, the tilt-away tailstock, the stainless steel ways, the toolrest lock, spindle lock, slightly easier belt changing, and that Robust will make slightly shorter legs for me without any fuss.

Best,

Hy

all great observations as well as how easy it is to level in the shop. (Yes, I am biased as a Robust dealer).

 

[Bill Boehme]

Hello, Tony,

I too placed an order for a Robust (in my case, a couple of weeks ago). I asked for delivery after the Symposium. I had the chance to also try a Powermatic and a Oneway (local club members). Both are really nice machines (especially compared to my Shopsmith ); but what sealed the deal for the Robust was: (1) A pay increase at work that pays for the Robust after a few years, and (2) little touches that I think I will value over the next 15-25 years, such as the moveable pendant, the tilt-away tailstock, the stainless steel ways, the toolrest lock, spindle lock, slightly easier belt changing, and that Robust will make slightly shorter legs for me without any fuss.

Best,

Hy

Welcome to the group of happy Robust owners. You will very pleased with it.

 

[hockenbery]

Symosium Lathe Purchase

Hello, Tony,

I too placed an order for a Robust (in my case, a couple of weeks ago). I asked for delivery after the Symposium. I had the chance to also try a Powermatic and a Oneway (local club members). Both are really nice machines (especially compared to my Shopsmith ); but what sealed the deal for the Robust was: (1) A pay increase at work that pays for the Robust after a few years, and (2) little touches that I think I will value over the next 15-25 years, such as the moveable pendant, the tilt-away tailstock, the stainless steel ways, the toolrest lock, spindle lock, slightly easier belt changing, and that Robust will make slightly shorter legs for me without any fuss.

Best,

Hy

Buying a Lathe for delivery at the Symposium is a great idea for purchasing made to order lathes like Oneway and Robust.
At the AAW Symposium, Trade Show Venders loan lathes for use in the rooms. Vendors like to ship their lathes to new owners in Pittsburgh.

We use the demonstrators lathe requests of 1st,2nd, 3rd choice to put the lathes in the the demonstration rooms. A 6 time demonstrator will get their first choice if it can be accommodated. A two time demonstrator may not. This year we had no vendors for Vicmarc or Nova.

Below is a table of lathe requests by the Pittsburgh demonstrators. The order shows what Lathes 31 of the best turners in the world asked to demonstrate on. Take the numbers with a grain of salt. Some demonstrators have a financial interest in Lathe companies and in a few cases a demonstrator will ask for a lathe to demonstrate on that they would never choose to own.

lathe.................first choice...........1st,2nd 3rd choice
Oneway......................7.......................11
Powermatic.................6.......................11
Vicmarc......................5........................8
Robust.......................4....................... 7
Jet............................ 2.........................5
no preference.............4..........................4
Stubby...................... 1.........................5
General 260............. 1...........................1
Nova DVR . ............. 1......................... 1

If you share a lathe with other turners a point Hy made will be important.
We ran a class in January. it takes about 20 minutes to change the height of a Oneway and 2-3 to change the height of an American Beauty. Most people never change the height but if you do....

if you attend the symposium be sure to thank Oneway, Powermatic and Robust for loaning us Lathes for the demos.

Al

 

[KellyDunn]

Tony, I have had my Oneway 2436 with the large outboard since 98. I have done modifications.
If I got it today I would do the same except add SS ways. I have the three HP motor and the secondary off on switch on a magnet that I pretty much leave on the tool post of the outboard. Having the large outboard gives me size options. I have never maxed out what it can do. I think 36 in piece is the largest. I think it can take 44. Doing any inside work means you are standing directly in front of the bowl or vessel and NOT leaning over the ways. May not be important for some but I do this for a living and move between the inboard and outboard during the day. I did have two toolrests custom made from 1 in. plate steel. Do not know if they have changed toolrest construction or not but I could flex the tips. I work off the tips all the time. Harmonics suck.
If you dont do a lot of bowl work and are mostly spindle buy a cheaper one of the lathes listed by a few folks here. All the ones listed are very good lathes. But you need to figure out what you do and get a match for you.
Edit, silly me. I did not see how long this thread had gotten and hit reply after reading the first page. Then read it all. Congrats on your purchase. You will be a kid in a candy store.

 

[odie]

Of those whom I've been aware that have owned a Oneway lathe, I don't think I've ever heard of any disappointments with them.....very top notch quality. Oneway lathes have always been among the top of the "most desirable" list for lathes. I've always felt Oneway is making a big mistake by not offering their lathes with a 1 1/4" x 8tpi spindle. Over and over again, we see the same theme......a turner wants to upgrade to a better lathe. Some of these turners have many accessories that are already 1 1/4x8tpi, and wish to use them with the new lathe. Most of the chucks available can be adapted to M33 threads, but if they use faceplates, they will have to buy a new set. Some accessories are not available in the M33 threads.

To me, it doesn't make sense, because the Oneway chucks, and faceplates are all available in 1 1/4x8tpi threads. I have them, plus many of their other accessories.....and, all of it is top quality stuff. Some years ago, I thought I might buy a Oneway lathe, but it was this point that kept me from pulling the trigger.

There have been several times, I wanted to upgrade my 1992 Australian made Woodfast lathe, but for some reason, or another, I never can quite make the decision to do it. Besides the Oneway 2036, another lathe I almost got was the Vicmarc VL240 with the swivel head. When I bought the Woodfast, it was my third lathe, and was an upgrade in itself........it's proven to be a very high quality lathe.

Congrats to the OP......From what I know of the Robust lathes, the company seems to be establishing itself as a premier option for those who are looking to buy a lathe in today's market......

ko

 

[cwearing]

Robust---I never looked back

 

[KellyDunn]

Odie, One of the modifications I made was have a machinest make me a new spindle with 1 1/2 x 8 threads. He took one look at the blueprints that come with each lathe and said no problem. I also talked to Oneway about doing a more common thread. Since it has not happened you can guess what I was told. I tried using Oneways adapter from M33 to 1 1/2x8 but got bad harmonics. If I were starting fresh instead of coming from a production faceplate background I would have had no beef with their thread. At the time no one was making things for the Oneway but Oneway. Now lots of folks make stuff for the lathe. I forget what the new spindle cost me but it was not cheap. But to me well worth every dollar.

 

[hockenbery]

Robust has the 33x3.5 threads as an option and the #3 morse taper in the tailstock as an option.



I use the #3 taper in the in the ONEWAY tailstock a lot more than I ever thought I would.
I find #3Mt drill bits with drill bits much easier to use than those in a Jacobs chuck.

Al

 

[Bill Boehme]

Odie, One of the modifications I made was have a machinest make me a new spindle with 1 1/2 x 8 threads. He took one look at the blueprints that come with each lathe and said no problem. I also talked to Oneway about doing a more common thread. Since it has not happened you can guess what I was told. I tried using Oneways adapter from M33 to 1 1/2x8 but got bad harmonics. If I were starting fresh instead of coming from a production faceplate background I would have had no beef with their thread. At the time no one was making things for the Oneway but Oneway. Now lots of folks make stuff for the lathe. I forget what the new spindle cost me but it was not cheap. But to me well worth every dollar.

The folks at Oneway are nice to deal with, but occasionally they are a bit "one way" about some things like the spindle threads. Their website says that they will do custom threads on chuck inserts and I asked them for a 1X8 insert that was just RH thread rather than the RH/LH that is standard for them, but they simply refused. I pointed out that the RH/LH threads fit too loose for the best alignment and that hardly anybody still builds lathes with LH threads for outboard turning. Since they are one of the "hardly anybody" lathe manufacturers, I suspect that they didn't take too kindly to my remark. The issue has gone away since I bought my Robust with a 1¼X8 spindle thread.

 

[Bob Dupras]

Thanks for all of your input, options, and operational experience. I have chosen to purchase a Robust lathe. The order is in. There is a back log of orders, so, there are others that made the same choice. I will be turning on a Robust lathe this July!

Which one did you order?

 

[Tony Maness]

Which one did you order?

American Beauty

 

[Tony Maness]

American Beauty has arrived

Robust received a larger order of lathes than usual in the spring. There was a 10 week period from time of the order to delivery. Still worth the wait. The company delivering the crate would not enter my driveway. So, the driver and i pushed the 600# crate to may shop with the help of a manual hydraulic lift. Make sure you request a truck with a lift tail gate to place the crate on the ground. Unpacking the crate was easy with a hammer and flat bar. However, at least two people are needed to take the lathe off the bottom shipping platform. Next step is to read the manual and start having fun.

 

[Andy Chen]

Congrats, Tony. Envious!

 

[JeffSmith]

I had forgotten how nice and shiney mine was when it was new. Haven't forgotten the joy of turning the first few projects; after three years it hasn't worn off yet even though it's no longer bright, shiney and new.
Have fun, be safe.

 

[mark j miller]

oneway 2436

I just retired and I want to upgrade to my LAST lathe. I just ordered the one-way 2436 a retirement present to myself. I like all the lathes listed but being Canadian, the American lathes are just way too much $$. The exchange rate doesn't help either.
Mark

 

[hockenbery]

I just retired and I want to upgrade to my LAST lathe. I just ordered the one-way 2436 a retirement present to myself. I like all the lathes listed but being Canadian, the American lathes are just way too much $$. The exchange rate doesn't help either. Mark

I have serial number 275. It is a great lathe.

You will enjoy it.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Welcome to the AAW forum. You will like your new lathe.

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

Congratulations on your retirement Mark. I have turned on a 2436 and it's a dream. What are you moving up from?

Doug