Negative rake scrapers?

[Jon Murphy]

I am having difficulty figuring out the advantage of negative rake scrapers in the general sense. I've read Cindy D's paean to them, and those of others, and it seems the actual "cutting edge" (angle of the bevel to the top surface) is the same as that of a standard scraper. The angle of attack to the wood changes because of the negative rake, but one can also change that by adjusting the angle of the scraper and the height of the tool rest.

When I say "cutting edge" I mean the included angle between the top surface (angled downward on a negative rake scraper) and the bevel. I happen to use a 60 db. bevel, so were I to put a 10 dg. negative rake on the top surface of my scraper and a 50 dg. bevel I'd have the same 60 dg. "cutting edge" as on my standard scraper. If I wanted a different included angle I could change my bevel without using a negative rake. If I wanted a different angle of attack I could change my tool rest height and the angle of my scraper. Where is the advantage?

I can see that there could be an advantage of convenience in the negative rake, perhaps not having to change the tool rest when transitioning from bowl gouge to scraper. That I can understand, but the difference in "cut" is beyond me.

Best, Jon

 

[Bill Boehme]

If you only put a 10° bevel on the top it's not a real NRS in my opinion. Try it with 30° on both top and bottom (included angle of 60°). Then hone off any grinder bur and use a burnishing tool to raise a small bur. Use the tool horizontal at centerline and feather-light touch against the wood. You can't get the same delicate touch when you have a standard scraper angled down because you will be fighting against the wood trying to pull the tool into itself. The small bur will only last a minute, but it should leave a very smooth surface.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I am having difficulty figuring out the advantage of negative rake scrapers in the general sense. I've read Cindy D's paean to them, and those of others, and it seems the actual "cutting edge" (angle of the bevel to the top surface) is the same as that of a standard scraper. The angle of attack to the wood changes because of the negative rake, but one can also change that by adjusting the angle of the scraper and the height of the tool rest.

When I say "cutting edge" I mean the included angle between the top surface (angled downward on a negative rake scraper) and the bevel. I happen to use a 60 db. bevel, so were I to put a 10 dg. negative rake on the top surface of my scraper and a 50 dg. bevel I'd have the same 60 dg. "cutting edge" as on my standard scraper. If I wanted a different included angle I could change my bevel without using a negative rake. If I wanted a different angle of attack I could change my tool rest height and the angle of my scraper. Where is the advantage?

I can see that there could be an advantage of convenience in the negative rake, perhaps not having to change the tool rest when transitioning from bowl gouge to scraper. That I can understand, but the difference in "cut" is beyond me.

Best, Jon

Try a search here, we have had several long discussions about this...

 

[Mike Brazeau]

I think the best thing to do is to forget studying the theory and take a scraper and try some different grind angles. About six weeks ago while prepping for a lidded box session I was teaching, after reading numerous discussions, I took an old 1/2" carbon steel scraper and tried a couple of grinds, using same grind angle top and bottom. My first attempt I think had an included angle of about 80 degrees. Did not work worth a hoot. I settled on a 70 degree included angle and it works sweet for finish cuts. Tried on a couple of small bowls as well as boxes. I have yet to try on a larger scraper and to regrind a large left grind scraper but look forward to it. Very easy to use with little risk of being too aggressive. Will still retain a normal version for hogging out when needed but NRS definitely has a role to play.

 

[Fred Belknap]

I read somewhere that the beveled top keeps the tool from self feeding. This is as good a suggestions as I have heard about NRS. I use them and have settled on 80 degree bottom and the lowest degree on Robo Rest which I think is around 25 degrees for the top bevel. I prefer large scrapers with light pressure. I also find that the cut from an 80 grit CBN grinding wheel burr works as good as a burr that is honed off and then put on the tool with a Veritas tool. They are great on hard wood and knots but do leave a little fuzzy stuff on the against the grain cut on soft wood. I don't find this to be a problem. I gave a demo on NRS at our last club meeting and it was well received. Other turners may find other angels and thickness works better for them. It is easy to do a little experimenting especially when you have the ROBO Rest.

 

[robo hippy]

Probably the first video I will do when I get settled into new house and shop late summer.... There seem to be two styles, one has the same grind on each side like a skew chisel with most being in the 30/30 range. The other has different bevels, with the bottom being more blunt, and the top being more shallow. I have to go back and play with the skew type ones for a bit, but have been favoring the uneven grinds. These vary from about 40 bottom grind/30 top grind, up to 80/20 for a Sorby 'hardwood bowl NRS' which is used more in a bevel rubbing mode. The skew chisel type ones are mostly used with just the grinder burr, and that burr is gone in seconds. With a 1 inch wide 1/4 round nose profile, and a 10 inch diameter bowl. I start the sweep at the bottom of the bowl, at the nose of the tool, and as I pull up to the rim, the cut moves from the nose to the edge, and by the time I get to the rim, the grinder burr edge is dull, and the burnished burr edge is almost dull. The burnished burr seems to last a lot longer, and you can turn it down and back up a couple of times before you need to go back to the grinder. I also seem to get a better burr on NRSs in the 45/30 to 60/30 bevel range. Getting steeper, like 70/30 or 80/30, it is much more difficult to get a burnished burr. With the skew chisel type, when I burnish, I can hear the edge breaking, and I make sure to try to use very light pressure. It still cuts though.

Thus far, it seems that dry wood will cut much more cleanly than wet wood with the NRS. Some thing in the order of I can start sanding at 220 or 320, compared to about 120. This can vary a lot depending on the wood. I have been going through some Myrtle/California Bay Laurel lately that is leaving a lot of tear out, much more so than normal. Have to play around with some other woods. Biggest problem most have with the NRS is cutting way too long with the burr. You just barely sweep the edge along the wood. If you have to apply any pressure at all, then it is dull. This is a high maintenance tool.

robo hippy

 

[Jon Murphy]

Wow, that's a lot to absorb - thanks guys. I see a bit of experimenting in my future.

My apologies to Emiliano, I'll have to look at the link you gave me another night as its getting late. Perhaps my thoughts will be covered there.

It seems we have two different tools, as Robo Hippy points out. One is a modified skew chisel and the other is a modified scraper. Bill B. favors the modified skew, and I have to concur with him for the use he describes. I am a fan of Alan Lacer's skews, and his grind, but I keep a couple of my older skews with the straight grind to use for the light touch final scraping he describes. That will be my first change - I grind my skews at 20 dgs. (40 dg. included) so I'll regrind my scraper skews to the 30 dg. (60) he suggests for the "skew scraper". I've never tried scraping with the skew with a burr - I wonder what the angle of his burr is.

Which raises a point. I used to use the Veritas device for making burrs, but it gives a "forward burr" of either 5 dgs. or 10 dgs. - I found I preferred to make my burr by hand so I could make it any way I wanted. My normal is about 5 dgs. of "back hook", but I vary that according to the purpose. The angle of the burr has an effect on the "pull into the wood" as well as the presentation angle.

Coming back to the modified scraper NRS, I still see no advantage theoretically, but I'm beginning to see a practical advantage in some cases where the tool presentation angle is limited by the shape of the bowl or the "elbow room" for the handle. BTW, Mike, I can't help looking at theory, that is why my domain name Is MurphSays. My lady says "ask Murphy the time and he'll tell you how to build a watch"<g>.

Enough for now, and I'll read Emiliano's link tomorrow.

Best, Jon

 

[Bill Boehme]

My wife says when she asks what time it is I tell her how to build an atomic clock.

I use a handheld burnishing tool and very gently raise a small bur that is approximately vertical when the tool is on the rest. Applying too much pressure with burnisher will cause the bur to curl backwards .... not good.

 

[robo hippy]

I never used the Veritas burnishing tool. The one time I saw it used, the turner was really cranking hard on it. I do not like big burrs as they do tend to be very grabby. The NRS, applied very lightly, will do a much better job of smoothing things out, like ripples, than a standard scraper will. Some times it is great for removing minimal tear out. It is not any good for any stock removal. You can put a honed edge/no burr on a standard scraper and get very clean cuts in dry hard woods like sugar maple. That cut does not work on softer woods.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

Jon, here is a fairly recent thread on negative rake scrapers:

NRS thread #1

and, here is another one:

NRS thread #2

and here is yet another:

NRS thread #3

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Wow, that's a lot to absorb - thanks guys. I see a bit of experimenting in my future.

My apologies to Emiliano, I'll have to look at the link you gave me another night as its getting late. Perhaps my thoughts will be covered there.

It seems we have two different tools, as Robo Hippy points out. One is a modified skew chisel and the other is a modified scraper. Bill B. favors the modified skew, and I have to concur with him for the use he describes. I am a fan of Alan Lacer's skews, and his grind, but I keep a couple of my older skews with the straight grind to use for the light touch final scraping he describes. That will be my first change - I grind my skews at 20 dgs. (40 dg. included) so I'll regrind my scraper skews to the 30 dg. (60) he suggests for the "skew scraper". I've never tried scraping with the skew with a burr - I wonder what the angle of his burr is.

Which raises a point. I used to use the Veritas device for making burrs, but it gives a "forward burr" of either 5 dgs. or 10 dgs. - I found I preferred to make my burr by hand so I could make it any way I wanted. My normal is about 5 dgs. of "back hook", but I vary that according to the purpose. The angle of the burr has an effect on the "pull into the wood" as well as the presentation angle.

Coming back to the modified scraper NRS, I still see no advantage theoretically, but I'm beginning to see a practical advantage in some cases where the tool presentation angle is limited by the shape of the bowl or the "elbow room" for the handle. BTW, Mike, I can't help looking at theory, that is why my domain name Is MurphSays. My lady says "ask Murphy the time and he'll tell you how to build a watch"<g>.

Enough for now, and I'll read Emiliano's link tomorrow.

Best, Jon

No need to apologize. I wanted to make sure you read the other threads we have had in the past.. This one has gotten pretty good... Aloha

 

[Jon Murphy]

My wife says when she asks what time it is I tell her how to build an atomic clock. .

They didn't have atomic clocks in my youth, they didn't even have electronic ones. On the wall above my computer is a Chinese replica of the old Regulator school house clock with a mechanical movement and driven by a pendulum and wind-up springs. I got it about 20 years ago and was able to get the accuracy to about 10 seconds a week by adjusting the pendulum length. One's latitude affects the speed of the pendulum swing, so one always has to adjust the pendulum to the location. 10 years ago I moved, I moved a long drive away from my old place (actually a long drive for a pro golfer, a driver and a three wood for me <g>). The clock was completely out of sync. I finally realized that in my old place the clock was oriented approximately east/west, and in the new one about north/south. The change in orientation changed the effect of the earth's rotation on the pendulum so I had to re=tune it. Jon

 

[Jon Murphy]

I've read the other threads on the NRS on this Forum that Bill suggested, they are of value as is the Glenn Lucas video someone linked. I've decided I'm going to give a try at the NRS in both forms (the modified skew and the modified scraper). But the burr is the burning question (pardon the play on words). I'll come back to that.

I've got a couple of old Henry Taylor Raffen skews (a 3/4 and a 1") that I'll regrind to 30/30 (60 included. I'll probably make a round end or half round for internal work and a relatively straight end. I've also got several Benjamin's Best 1/2" scrapers from PSI that I buy for my specialty work (I don't mind reshaping them regularly as they are low priced) - I'll try them with various combinations of top and end bevels and included angles.

Now back to the burning question. Bill B. commented "I use a handheld burnishing tool and very gently raise a small burr that is approximately vertical when the tool is on the rest. Applying too much pressure with burnisher will cause the bur to curl backwards .... not good." Note that he says he raises a burr that is approximately vertical when the tool is on the rest! I mentioned in a previous post that I use Alan Lacer's instructions on burr burnishing, a "back angle" of about 5 dgs. to the plane of the scraper. But as his use of the standard scraper involves the "high handle" that may not be inconsistent. The Veritas device, that I put aside a while ago, creates a burr that is a "forward angle" to the plane of the scraper - but their instructions also say to use the scraper at a different tool angle.

After considerable thought, and deep meditation <g>, I have decided that the burr should be burnished by hand at various angles depending on the use intended at the moment. The burr off the grinder will always be "forward facing", unless you are grinding a negative main bevel, which is unlikely. That is fine for roughing but also hard on the burr. It was Bob's comment that settled my mind. The vertical burr, when the tool is on the rest, is a burr that is approximately parallel to the wood to be cut. He was speaking of his NRS 30/30, so that is a "back angle" in relation to the top bevel.

OK, I'm MurphSays, but I think I'm getting somewhere. The shearing cut shears because of the angle that the burr is cutting the wood, it is coming at it in a slicing way like a knife. But even a knife won't slice well if it is angled wrong. I think there is no such thing as the right angle for the burr. Think of a semi-enclosed bowl (I'm working on one now, a small one of exotic hardwood). Using a half round scraper on the inside with a shear cut the angle of the burr to the wood will change as you come up the sides, you can't move the handle far enough. I'm thinking that I should put a steep "back angle" on the side burr to as to make the burr angle parallel to the wood. I'm going to try it.

I love my CBN grinder, but I hate going back to it. I like honing off the grinder burr and making my own by hand - partly because I can do it often before grinding away any steel. If this idea of variable "burr angle" along the blade, or for the instant purpose, works out then we will have one more reason to hand burnish the burr.

Best, Jon

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Hello Jon. You probably read somewhere where I posted that I was a late comer to the new NRS resurgence. Dont worry too much about angles and or the angles of the burrs. Mainly because I have found that one grind does not fit all... Some of the woods that I use love the NRS, some, like Koa, not so much. I do my NRS on my coarse CBN wheel, and it takes me many trips to the the grinder to finish something. But the extra minutes on the grinder and applying the NRS are well worth it. I converted some of my old scrapers, I have not regretted the decision, plus I have a Dough Thompson NRS. It's a good tool to have in your tool rack... Let us know how you like it, and on what woods works best. Aloha

 

[Clifton C]

Another interesting input would be the when where and why questions. The NRS is another tool that fits somewhere in the progression from the chain saw to 1200 grit sanding film. As Emiliano states, "Some of the woods that I use love the NRS, some, like Koa, not so much."
So, when do you grab the NRS and why ?
c

 

[Bill T Tucker]

Interesting discussion...not often is it necessary to reread comments, but this time it's worth it! Does anyone use a small diamond hone (course) to smooth the top burr and re-raise the working burr? Seems to work well with the skew and it's Quick.
bill

 

[robo hippy]

Well, I figure the only difference between my grinder burrs, and my burnished burrs is how they are created, not angles. I don't have any 1000X photos to back that up, only brushing my thumb across them. I have tried grinder burrs from 80, 180, and 600 grit CBN wheels. Haven't tried one from the 1000 grit wheel. I do need to play around with different grit wheels and try to compare burr cutting differences. Most of the time I use the 180 or 600, and can't really tell any difference. When I hand burnish them, I hold the carbide rod about 5 degrees off of the bevel on the bottom, so if bottom is 45 degrees, then burnisher is 50 degrees or so. My preference for final cuts that remove/reduce tear out and tool marks) on outside walls and inside walls of bowls is a shear scrape which isn't a scraping cut at all. Some times that doesn't work. This is where I resort to the NRS, which also works 'some times'. It is still a scraping cut, and doesn't eliminate tear out, but can greatly reduce it. I do find the NRS more useful for sweeping across the bottom of the bowl to smooth that out, and in the transition area. With scrapers, if you use them on the walls of the bowl, most of the time you will get more tear out, not less.

Funny thing about hand burnishing, I am surprised at how little pressure it takes to turn a burr.

As for hand held hones, I have tried them, and they do work, but the burrs from a fine grit CBN wheel works as well. I never managed to get the hang of the hand held hones, and others can probably do that better than I. I would expect to use pretty much the same process as a hand burnisher, turn/hone down the top side burr, then hone the bevel to turn the burr back up. Easier for me to use the hand burnisher. It doesn't take much pressure at all...

Biggest problem I have had with the NRS is recognizing when it is dull and not cutting properly.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

It was Bob's comment that settled my mind.

You can call me Bill ... or you can call me Billy ... or you can call me Billy Ray (we southern boys have two first names) ... but you dassn't call me Bob ... or Merle Haggard ... anymore.

View: https://youtu.be/8QUSQJQml40

 

[Jon Murphy]

Sorry about that Bill, my elderly mind slips now and then - how about Billy Bob <g>. You southern boys are pikers, my father was Canadian and I ended up with three first names. That was fine until the computers took over and wouldn't allow four names, and I'd always gone my second name. Try convincing the bureaucrats that Jonathan W. Murphy is the same person as Alan J(onathan) W(yman) Murphy - It took me ten years to convince the NJ DMV. They wanted me to use the name on my birth certificate as that was my "real name". I asked if I could use Alan Jonathan Wyman Murphy, they said it wouldn't fit. I asked if I could use Alan J. W. Murphy - no that wouldn't fit either as I couldn't have two initials. They said my "real name" was Alan J. Murphy, despite my protestations that if my full name had to be abbreviated I should get to pick which parts I used. I went on driving with my old NY state license, renewing it at a friend's address. Totally illegal, but as Social Security, the IRS and banks and my home deed, etc. had accepted me as Jonathan W. I didn't want to have two identities.

There is a point to this long story, believe it or not. The ill-fated NJ Governor Tom McGreevy (he was forced to resign on some sex charges) did one good thing in his brief reign - he disbanded the DMV and formed the MVA (motor vehicle agency) under a private contractor. I went to the MVA office near me (an old DMV office) and it took me an hour to get my NJ license as Jonathan W. Murphy. The only reason it took an hour was that I had to speak to the supervisor and she had to get an OK from Trenton - our "negotiation time" was a matter of minutes.

Best, Jon

 

[Jon Murphy]

I'm sold!

I reshaped my old 3/4" Raffen skew to a half round scraper shape with 30/30 bevels. I've been having trouble finishing the inside of a 4" semi-closed cocabola bowl (about 3" deep), the wood is quite sensitive to slight mistakes. I went from the CBN 80 grit grinder directly to the bowl (no real burr, I'd been grinding both sides of the tool alternately and I didn't remember which side I did last). I made a light pass across the transition and up the side and got a decent result. I then honed the bevels and used two light passes of my hand burnisher to raise a "vertical burr" (as Bill suggested). I then made a couple of full passes across the bottom and around the corner and up the side of the bowl with a light touch. Wow! I smoothed out some uneven areas and came up with a decent surface. I went to the annoying "center nub" and was easily able to smooth it (I too often get a grab there with a standard scraper).

This does not mean I'm a total convert, I will still do all my basic shaping with gouges and I haven't yet tried an NRS for removing material. I'm also not sure if the final finish is better with the "skew type" NRS or shear scraping with a standard scraper, but I can see the additional control provided by the light touch and the tool flat on the rest. Next project is to modify an old scraper to an NRS and try it out for removing material.

BTW, I only went from the coarse CBN to the bowl as I was in a hurry, I'd just done the serious regrinding and didn't want to take time to go to the 180 grit CBN as it was late.

For those who asked about the diamond hone, I use an expensive one that lasts forever. Alan Lacer sells a hone of his design which is a 600 grit double sided slip stone with a wider round edge and a narrower round edge. It is made with the electroplating (I think, but don't hold me to it) process. I've had mine for three years with no deterioration - and I use it a lot. The 600 grit diamond surface works well for honing gouges and skews, and my kitchen knives and work knives, and anything else. I've basically retired my old set of diamond "stones" which were pockets of diamonds in metal rather than metal plated with diamonds - they were from my wood carving days. One warning, I bought a new Lacer stone about six months ago as my old one was clogging due to lack of maintenance. I then bought a Scotch Brite Hand and Nail brush in the Paint section of Home Depot, a small handy brush with stiff bristles, for about 3 bucks. I soaked my old stone in water, and a bit of dish soap, and vigorously applied the brush. I didn't need the new stone - but it is in reserve in the kitchen so I don't have to go to the workshop. Now I just run a bit of water on the stone and hit it with the brush a couple of times a week.

Pardon my going on, but I'm trying to cover the bases. I am a great believer in saving money by spending money and time. I use the Oneway setup for my rest mounts, and their Wolverine jig for gouges. But I spent the bucks a few years ago for Don Geiger's Vertical Solution V supports. Soon after that he came out with his modified one (name forgotten) that also had a four position peg that changes the distance from the wheel by a fixed amount. As I'd just bought the old one Don kindly sent me the parts to make a conversion for a nominal price. He has dropped that line in favor of his cheaper alternative - which I think is probably excellent. I also bought a D-Way 180 grit CBN wheel about four or five years ago, as it had the rounded edges I need for my Ellsworth style hollowing cutters (I do a lot of hollow forms, my old avatar showed them). I was tired of adjusting for the wearing down wheels. A year later I added the D-Way 80 grit wheel without the rounded edges, the 90 dg side cutting edge is useful.

One problem with Don's system is that his instructions, and supplies, are oriented to bowl gouges - and I make a lot of other grinds. He kindly sent me a few of the gauges he had not accepted to sell. I made a 30 dg gauge and a 45 dg. gauge to go with his 60 dg. guage. In combination with the leg settings of the Wolverine, and the height settings of the VS, and the four fixed distance settings of the new VS I can make almost any gouge grind shape I want. But the key is that I can duplicate it exactly.

We all know that the exact shape of the tool is unimportant to its use, and we all adapt to the shape we are using. But the exact duplication of a grind saves expensive steel as a couple of passes on the fine wheel are all that are needed in a regrind. It is worth the extra time in set up, and in equipment, to save the expensive steel in the long haul. And that brings me back to scrapers and hand honing and burnishing. Every time you go to the wheel you are removing steel from the tool. When you take off the old burr with a hand hone, then re-burr with a hand burnisher, you are not only able to change the angle of the burr if you choose, you are also losing no steel.

I grew up during WWII, with rationing cards for food and gasoline. We kids had toy soldiers, but only a couple, the rest were represented by twigs from a tree as we set up our military formations in the mud of the garden. I buy certain expensive tools (my Lacer skews, but my own handles) and my Thompson detail gouges, and my Crown PM parabolic bowl gouges. I also buy Benjamin's Best scrapers for reshaping to need (good steel, but not the best). My Ellsworth hollowing tools (I have about twelve with different shaft diameters and cutter sizes) cost me under ten dollars apiece. David has kindly told all his customers how to make his tools. The cutters cost about $9 at the vendors, but one can make them from stock for about a buck. David doesn't seem to understand he is supposed to make money from his "inventions", not make it easy for us to duplicate them <g>. I love the man. About 3 bucks for a blank of the 10% carbide about 3 inches long - that is three or four cutters depending on the width. I've gotten down to 1/8" for the very small, and my biggest are a quarter. O-1 tool rod goes for about ten bucks for 36", that is about four shafts. A bit of bending, a bit of drilling, and a bit of CA glue, and you have a tool. Oops, need a bit of wood for the handle.

I digressed, but that is me.

Best, Jon

 

[hughie]

I do not own one but on the occasion, I find the need to use one. I lift the handle till up to produce a negative angle. This has worked well for me with no hassles.

 

[robo hippy]

Hmm, I have a couple of old NRSs made from my first set of tools which were basic M2HSS. Might have to dig them out and play with them since I have been using the other fancy metals lately. No idea if the burnished burrs will work any better with them or not. Grinder burrs too...

robo hippy

 

[Clifton C]

Hughie, I've heard of this, when I've tried this, to get the top of the scrapper to be "negative" by raising the handle the cutting edge ends up well below centerline.
Do you raise the tool rest to compensate?

 

[John Torchick]

This is an interesting thread. I can't imagine how turners of 150 years ago, or before, turned wood and didn't have two dozen tools. Emiliano had an interesting comment on different grinds for different woods.

 

[Mike Brazeau]

Jon, I now completely understand your earlier response to my post. Don't convert all your scrapers. The NRS is useless as a macro hogging tool. I only turn for fun and to make round stuff to give away, but over the years have tried to make use of the modern technologies that have been adaped to woodturning. One of the old aspects I continue to use, especially when coring bowls is to clean up the inside bottoms and correct thickness issues with a scraper. I was roughing out a couple of small bowls from some found soft maple the other day and the NRS did nothing.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Feel free to hog away with a NRS provided that you only do so in gossamer wisps the thickness of which are best measured in angstroms.

 

[robo hippy]

It doesn't make any difference how high you raise the handle, the standard scraper will not cut the same way the NRS does. I have tried every variation I can think of, they are two different tools and they cut differently. Some woods will cut really nicely no matter what you do, and some won't cut nicely no matter what you do...

robo hippy

 

[hughie]

Hughie, I've heard of this, when I've tried this, to get the top of the scrapper to be "negative" by raising the handle the cutting edge ends up well below centerline.
Do you raise the tool rest to compensate?

Not often as I use the negative aspect infrequently, usually on a small patch that's giving me grief. Yes the tool ends up well below the centreline as with all the methods we use you have to be comfortable with it. I make my own scrapers for what I do and shear scrape where possible.

But as Robbo pointed out its horses for courses and NRS have their limitations and as mentioned the whole process is occasional for me.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Feel free to hog away with a NRS provided that you only do so in gossamer wisps the thickness of which are best measured in angstroms.

I have videos of me hogging with a 5/8 spindle gouge, making boxes, cutting end grain on woods like Lignum, you get an endless ribbon of wood that is thiner than a hair, looks like you are removing a lot of wood, but on final cuts is basically nothing, but yards long...