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? on long thin turnings

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Jun 8, 2004
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I am attempting to turn a pair of chop sticks. I am sure this is something I can do even though I have only been turning for 2 months. My problems are:

1. While using any tool, once it gets down to 1/4 the whole turning starts to chatter. I have been supporting the wood opposite the cutting tool with my fingers, but it still chatters.

2. When I part off the end, it tends to crack at the tip, ruining the fine detail I worked into it.

I made about 6 pieces of scrap cherry last night and need some help!
 
Joined
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It's tough to tell you exactly what you need to do differently unless a person is right there next to you but here are a few tips...

1) Not too much tailstock pressure. Too much will compress the whole thing and make it whip more. Just enough pressure to keep the wood against your drive center.

2) What kind of tool are you using? And how are you using it? Tough to describe online how to do it but a light tough at a shearing angle towards the headstock is best. If any project demands the use of a skew, this is the one.

3) Sharp tools with correct bevels and proper technique. I know, this is a throw-away sentence as it doesn't tell you much. It's only when you find out that what you have been doing isn't optimal, that you really know how meaningful that sentence is. :)

4) Good job at providing a steady with your other fingers. Are they as close to the tool (on the other side of course) as possible? Choke up on the tool in your tool-holding hand. Gives you more control.

5) Are you working with green wood? Green wood will whip far more than dry at a given diameter. What kind of wood are you using? How long is it?

6) Don't push too hard at all. Light shearing cuts almost parallel with the axis of the lathe (that's the scientific phrase for cutting toward either the headstock (preferred) or tailstock and not straight at the wood).

7) Part off at the headstock end! Part off with a skew or small spindle gouge at a shearing angle. Don't use a "small skew in a peeling cut" (aka Parting Tool) here. This is, I assume, how you're doing it now?

If you'll email me direct, we can setup a time in a day or two to show you how I do it through the LatheCAM. Might be easier to see it done live and (sort-of) in person.

Small, thin and long turning is a very demanding turning project. The smaller, thinner and longer you get, the more challenging and technical.

- Andrew
 
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Two tings I would recomend;
Hold the drive end in a chuck. That way you can just use the tailstock to keep the piece in line. Just let it ride in or on, depending what is on the top of the long spindle.
Also turn a short section to the size you want, starting at the tail, and don't go back or you may twist it off.

Good luck
 
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Thanks, The chopsticks are almost 12" long and 1/4 wide cherry. I use a skew to turn them and that was doing OK, not great just OK. I have a supernova in the head holding the but of the chop sticks. I bet I had too much pressure on the tail stock. I will try again this weekend and let you know.

Thanks again for the tips.
 
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The other thing to know about is a technique knows as a string steady. Take a piece of dental floss or thin string. Drape it over the chopstick and tape both ends to the bed of the lathe with almost no tension on the string. Now do the same thing but attaching the string to other surfaces at divergent angles to the first (the wall behind the lathe if close, a magnetic lamp carefully positioned, a strategically placed tool box, etc). You should end up with 2-4 strings bracing the spindle from different angles but radially perpendicular. If you can manage one up, one down, and one kinda pointed towards you, you'll have the best brace. If the tension is light enough, no significant friction will be generated until the tool contacts the wood, so burning is unlikely. If you need to, tape the spindle where the strings contact to prevent a burn.

This type of steady is actually really good for very thin spindles. A turner in our club has managed a 14", 1/10" spindle using a scraper, of all things.

Good Luck,
Dietrich
 
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dkulze said:
This type of steady is actually really good for very thin spindles. A turner in our club has managed a 14", 1/10" spindle using a scraper, of all things.

Good Luck,
Dietrich

A string steady is good but really shouldn't be necessary for just a chopstick as the original poster said he's doing. Of course, it won't hurt other than just getting in the way and taking time.

I'm up to 24" long, 1/32" diameter trembleurs now. I love my string steadys (I use up to 4 at a time on those) but they're a pain to all get setup and lined up together. I couldn't do it without those steadys though. Can't say that I've tried it with a scraper!

Another option for the original poster to drive your work is just a jamb chuck. You can either buy these commercially as a "lace bobbin drive" or similar name. The ones I've seen just fit into a morse taper and look like a square socket (to drive square headed bolts, etc.) on the other end. You can make your own from wood and make it any size you want. For example, making the square hole in it 3/4" x 3/4" to fit a 3/4" blank. You just shove your blank in there and put enough tailstock pressure to hold it there. No splitting and less tailstock pressure needed to hold it. Just another option if you're planning to do a lot of this type of thing.

Personally, for my trembleurs and many other small, thin turnings I just cut a morse taper on the end of the wood blank and shove that into the spindle morse taper. Easy, quick and nothing to get in your way.

- Andrew
 
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after reading your posts, I just reaized that I may be suffering from excessive speed. I realize that even if the wood is centered in its turning, it may have a natural imbalance due to the grain of the wood. That alone at higher speeds would cause the whipping effect after I part off the end...That helps Thanks!

I was building a spindle steady out of rollerblade wheels, but the dental floss would be much less in the way! Thanks for the idea.
 
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Doghouse said:
That alone at higher speeds would cause the whipping effect after I part off the end...That helps Thanks!
What do you mean by that? Are you parting off near the tailstock and then continuing to run the lathe to do more cuts?

Doghouse said:
I was building a spindle steady out of rollerblade wheels, but the dental floss would be much less in the way! Thanks for the idea.
You can also use waxed sewing thread ("button thread"). It's cheaper and stronger but you don't get that Minty Fresh feeling afterward. ;)


- Andrew
 
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Although I agree with the suggestion that things may work better with the headstock end of the workpiece held in a chuck, there is another reason for using this method.

Thin turnings are not well supported between centers. Consider, for example, a beam supported only by a single point at each end. This would allow the maximum amount of flexing. Exchange this for a beam with one end trapped as a chuck would do and flexing is reduced substantially.

I also recommend that you take a tip from Richard Raffan's Project Book and Video. He turns a Morse Taper on one end of the workpiece and then shoves it into the headstock. This traps several inches of the wood and works like a charm to reduce flexing. You don't have to work around a chuck either.

Trapping the wood at the tailstock end will also help. This can be done by turning a very short Morse taper and forcing that end into a Nova live center. It makes a big difference. There may be other ways to support this end better as well.

By the way, twelve inches seems a little long for chopsticks. Reducing them by a few inches will make the work easier too. They will also be easier to use for eating. :)

Thanks for the idea. I am off now to make some more chopsticks too.
 
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Turning long thin pcs

I 'd like to piggy back on this poster with this: show us a picture of the string supports-its hard to comprehend some of the small stated turnings! :confused:
 
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Maybe this will do for now?

Dtoggs said:
I 'd like to piggy back on this poster with this: show us a picture of the string supports-its hard to comprehend some of the small stated turnings! :confused:
I don't have any pictures of my trembleurs in the process of being turned yet but I do have a couple of pictures of one of my string steadys in an in-progress article on the subject. It's located at:

http://www.woodturnersofswmo.org/Articles/String_Steady.htm

Not much there yet but you can at least see one of the types of steadys I'm talking about.

I'm hoping that next weekend (another club meeting) I'll be finding out how to actually get a presentable image of these very small and thin turnings on my own. I'm not a photographer by any means and am hoping to get some shots of my stuff. Every attempt to photo most of my stuff is a complete failure.

- Andrew
 
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