Operator (and bystander) injuries? List the ways....

Discussion in 'Woodturning Health & Safety' started by Jamie Straw, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Doug Rasmussen

    Doug Rasmussen

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    Jamie, from my first hand experience with industrial machinery, the state department of Labor and Industry (the dreaded L&I) can help you here. They're more than glad to send out an inspector to look over your shop for safety issues, posted warning signage on machinery etc, etc. As long as you make the inspection request you're not liable for fines for unsafe conditions. If they make an unannounced inspection due to a complaint or whatever that's a different issue.

    In the State of Washington there are issues to be aware of. Anybody working for payment is automatically covered under state industrial insurance. I assume this would apply to paid demonstrators and possibly class participants. This is where you can get into tricky territory. For instance, if you hire a handy man to do odd jobs around your home you are responsible for their industrial insurance. If they're a professional you can verify online whether premiums are being paid to the state. If they aren't covered (as would likely be the case of an out of state demonstrator) you can sign them up and pay the nominal premiums yourself. If an uninsured individual is hurt on your premises the penalties can be severe.

    I expect state inspectors will be fairly hard nosed about issues with unguarded, rotating chunks of wood. Probably at a minimum requiring guarding like shown in the attached picture. As a sidenote, the Seattle Woodcraft store typically has at least 10 lathes on display and not a singly one has a guard installed.

    For sure, bench grinders will need to have full enclosures over the wheels. Even the CBN wheel sellers show their products being used without guarding which has always been surprising to me.

    The liability insurance company your local club deals with might have some safety guidelines too.

    Given the litigious society we're in it's no wonder public schools have been forced to give up shop classes. A friend very active in the woodturning community gave up the idea of marketing a clever accessory because the product liability insurance per unit exceeded his projected selling price.

    lthe guard.JPG
     
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  2. odie

    odie

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    Hi Jamie

    When you say "open shop", do you mean a shop that is open to a community of turners who are not receiving instruction, but working independently?
     
  3. Mark Lindquist

    Mark Lindquist

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    That's how I read it Odie -
     
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  4. RichColvin

    RichColvin

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    Jon Magill is a big name in the Ornamental Turning community and he said the same thing at a presentation I saw him give in 2016. It is sad to me : His ideas was a great one.

    Rich
     
  5. odie

    odie

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    Unless you're one of those who can manipulate a gouge one handed, or the rare turner who happens to have three hands, this rule I've quoted above seems a little off base to me.....:eek:

    As I digest these safety rules, there are a couple that I'm not willing to completely comply with. I've never been an instructor, but if I were, I'd insist on compliance.....even though I may fudge one or two of the rules in my own shop.

    During the past week, the temperatures in my shop have been very high.......and, I've resorted to wearing shorts and "flip-flops". This is not my normal practice, but with all this heat, I guess you could say "the devil made me do it"! Ha,ha....:D

    To my thinking, John Lucas hits on the bottom line here. Unstable wood and speed probably result in more serious injury than anything else in woodturning. Also, John Lucas is the one who convinced me to purchase the Bionic shield, which I wear every day. It's not going to stop every possible thing your lathe might fling at you.......but, it's far better than the standard shields that have no reinforcement on the sides or bottom.

    Many of the rules are plainly common sense........but, I fully understand the need to "spell it out" so the lowest common denominator is subjected to them......:rolleyes:

    -----odie-----
     
  6. Mark Lindquist

    Mark Lindquist

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    Surprised you misunderstood this Odie. This method is for startup of dangerous work and most anything that could come up to speed using certain lathes.

    Here's what I published back in 1986 in Sculpting Wood: Contemporary Tools and Techniques.

    "Often the beginning stage of turning large burls is dangerous and requires special caution when turning the lathe on. I stand to the side well out of the path of the burl and jog the lathe up to speed. Jogging is a series of snap starts, allowing the mass to gradually reach its maximum rpm at the slowest speed of the lathe which in this case is 50 rpm."

    The "rule" (as in "Golden Rule")is not off-base. I know many pro turners who practice this technique daily. I've turned with Ed Moultrop, Dale Nish, BobStocksdale and many others in their shops and they all practiced the same protocol when first staring large pieces. If it's not for you, fine, go about your business the way you turn, but I don't appreciate the cheap shot, however I expected as much sooner or later.

    So long guys.
     
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  7. odie

    odie

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    Yeah......funny how that one sailed right over my head! :D

    I had envisioned the act of turning while one hand was on the stop button........Oh well, a little time spent re-reading could have prevented that! ;)

    -----odie-----
     
  8. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    No, "open shop" (at least at my club) is intended to give some one-on-one mentoring. We have an instructor at each lathe to assist new turners in a particular topic such as spindle turning, hollowing, bowl turning, or whatever someone wants help with. My club has an open shop at least every three months that begins about four hours prior to the regular meeting time. We usually have about 6 to 8 lathes set up as well as instructors helping with other topics such as sharpening, tool making, and dyeing. There are also tables set up for trading wood and tools. One of the local woodworker stores frequently sets up a mini store. We also have hot dogs and other food which always helps to draw a crowd. :D I do my part by making sure that no hot dog goes uneaten. :)

    We do not have lathes sitting there for somebody to just mess around ... they can do that at home.
     
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  9. Grant Wilkinson

    Grant Wilkinson

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    As a very inexperienced turner by the standards of this group, I cannot add much to the discussion. However, there was an accident reported on another forum that would not have occurred to me as being the result of an inherently dangerous situation. The turner was not wearing loose clothing. He was wearing a snug fitting T-shirt. However, he had the jaws of his chuck opened far enough that the outer edges of the jaws extended beyond the body of the chuck. He reached for something (I forget the exact details.), got the sleeve of his shirt caught in the spinning jaws, tore the heck out of the shirt and injured his arm.

    No one can come up with an all encompassing list of don'ts for turners. As the man said, just when you believe you've made things fool proof, they invent a more imaginative fool. However,maybe you could include in your list something about reaching over spinning equipment for any reason.
     
  10. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    A great lesson ! Spinning objects with a corner - wood or metal - will almost always let go of skin after making bruise or tearing a piece out. In a particle bad situation a broken bone might result.

    Long sleeves, gloves, hair, jewelry ... are often held onto until torn free. Severe injury and death can occur.
    Steel wool, cloth rags are also subject to being grabbed.

    Wearing a watch is "ok" until the wood grabs it and won't let go

    Knew a guy who spent his life in the philiadelphia ship yards who me the most dangerous equipment was the big drill presses ( similar hazards to a lathe turned verticle)
    People did not respect their power got pulled into them by spinning wood they could not hold or caught clothing. They lost hands, arms, or died
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  11. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    I'm listening, but way over-extended until Thursday. See you then.:eek:
     
  12. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    Not exactly, but close. Details in a separate post in a couple days. It's "the wee hours" and I won't be back before Wednesday night or Thursday.o_O
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  13. Ely Walton

    Ely Walton

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    Hi Jamie! I am very new to the AAW and this forum, but back in the day, after reading (and re-reading) Dale Nish's books, I did a lot of stave bowl construction. I recall one particular situation when I was putting the finishing cuts on a bowl with thin curved sides at relatively high speed, it exploded before my mind had a chance to process what happened. I finally found a piece of the bowl at the other end of the shop -- it had flown through a very heavy curtain like it wasn't even there. If in the line of fire, it would have put the hole in my thorax!... I am sure everyone has "war stories" and don't mean to bore folks here -- the point is that you may want to have some mention of the special dangers with thin-walled, stave-constructed bowls on your list....

    73 Ely
     
  14. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    73 you say?

    You must be a ham. WA5SOE here.
     
  15. Frank F

    Frank F

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    AWARENESS, AWARENESS, AWARENESS of which SPEED is only one element. I am in no way minimizing the importance of proper speed. Whether one is hit with wood spinning a 800, 1000 or 1500 rpm, it’s going to hurt, or at least scare him/her. The better idea is to not get hit in the first place. And that comes from being aware of what you’re doing and what is going on around you-like jaws extending beyond the chuck, strange noises, the tool not cutting correctly, etc.

    The AAW Safety Guidelines is excellent; it’s very comprehensive. Thank you Mark for posting. Many of the items in that list are common sense and should become habitual - although I don’t think I’ve ever seen a turner shut of the lathe when moving the tool rest. I my opinion an instructor should go over this list in class and then reiterate the rules, consistently as stated in the list, when they are relevant during the class. Hopefully then these rules will become a habit.

    Keith Rowley in this book Woodturning, A Foundation Course listed these six laws of wood turning:
    1. The speed of the lathe must be compatible with the size, weight and length of the wood to be turned
    2. The tool must be on the rest before the whirling timber is engaged, and must remain so whenever the tool is in contact with the wood.
    3. The bevel (grinding angle) of the cutting tools must rub the wood behind the cut
    4. The only part of the tool that should be in contact with the wood is that part of the tool that is receiving direct support from the toolrest.
    5. Always cut ‘downhill’ or with the grain
    6. Scrapers must be kept perfectly flat (in section) on the toolrest and presented in the “trailing mode”, i.e. with the tool handle higher than the tool edge. (I know this doesn’t account for shear scraping)
    What I like about this list is that it’s short, only 6 items and they cover actions while turning at the lathe.

    My personal list is:
    • NEVER turn without a face shield. If the lathe is on, the shield is down.
    • Always set the speed to zero, if possible, before turn on that lathe.
    • Don’t turn when tired.
    • Pay attention
    • And all the above, many of which are habits, or goals, for me.
    I hope this helps.
     
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  16. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    As you pointed out the 6 rules don't work for shear scraping.
    3&5 have exceptions in face work.

    This fine for spindle turning.

    Gives the cleanest surface in face work.
    However " all generalities are false including this one" applies here.
    There are lots of times where this rule does not hold
    1 purposely violated - cutting bark to foot on the outside of a NE bowl To keep the bark
    2 when it is not possible - hollowing an endgrain piece with a gouge - can't cut from bottom center to the rim.

    There are some cuts that do not rub the bevel. A roughing cut with the side ground gouge.
    Back cut with the side ground gouge.

    And if you drill with a gouge #2 does not apply as the gouge must not bind on the rest as it drills.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  17. odie

    odie

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    Speeding up the rpm can, in some cases, result in a better cut.....but, this has limitations. There is a point where an increase of rpm will not result in a cleaner cut. Other factors can include vibration, sharpness of the tool, and the skill level of the turner. All these factors need to be a part of the overall equation......rpm isn't the only factor to consider.

    -----odie-----
     
  18. Frank F

    Frank F

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    I agree with everything you said. But for a beginner, I think the above rules are a good starting. When I started, I had no mentor. I only had Keith's book, a delta mini lathe and some tools-the Sorby Set. His laws and the rest of his book got me comfortable around a lathe and turning tools-including the skew chisel.
     
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  19. Ely Walton

    Ely Walton

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    Yes! Sometimes I get confused between hobbies... 73 ES GOD BLESS U ES URS DE KEN N4OI dit dit...:)
     
  20. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    . . . dah :D
     

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