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Parting tool problem

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I was shortening a piece on the lathe that is to be the body for a Christmas ornament. When I was presenting the tool, I saw that the wood on either side of the tool burned black. Means a lot of sanding. It is a 1/4 wide parting tool. Any suggestions as how to prevent this?
 
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As you cut deeper the wood flexes and binds on the tool.
To ease this, cut a bit with the tool and then withdraw the tool and make the cut a bit wider.
Repeat until parting.

Stu
 
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Stu, thanks for the tip. Makes sense. It did make the ends look nice if you are wanting a black finish. Still learning this turning stuff.
 
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Stu, I had to shorten the piece I was working on and followed your suggestion. Worked great.
hockenberry, got it. Thanks.
 

Bill Boehme

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The cause could be one or both of:
  1. Dull tool
  2. Pressing too hard and causing pThe parting tool to be pinched on the kerf
In addition to what Stu and Al said, if you're wanting to spend money on a new tool then a narrow parting tool is nice to have.
 

john lucas

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Another thing is to freshly sharpen it. A freshly sharpened parting tool will cut amazingly deep before it binds. Still a very good idea to always do deep cuts in 2 passes. I usually make one cut down about 1/2" or so. Then move over and make another cut down about 1/4 to 1/2" below that one. Then go back to the beginning cut and do it again. You can go back and forth between the 2 until it's deep enough.
Each cut should be in a straight line but if you are cutting deep and only using 1/2 of the cutting edge you can go in an arc. I do this when cleaning up the bottom of goblets. I'll make a parting cut straight in and then one straight in but at an angle starting the concave shape of the bottom. When I've cleaned away most of the parting cut I will make an a long arcing cut to get most of the shape, then clean all of that up with a spinde gouge or toe of the skew.
When I do boxes and want the grain to match I don't want to make 2 passes. You have to however so here is how I do it. I make the first cut just about 1/4" deep or even less. Then I make a second cut moving the tool over just as little as I can so I can get some clearance for the tool. Then I make a 3rd cut at an angle but use the outer area of the first cut as a sort of pivot point. I make cuts left and then right and then left and right until I'm all the way down to a very small tenon. Using the first cut as an opening and pivot point removes as little as possible from the box so the grain matches. Moving the tool left and right inside gives the clearance you need to make a deep cut.
another thing I do on some cuts is to use the bevel of the parting tool as a cutting tool. Lets say you have sharpened your parting tool so a 90 degree included angle. The tip is obviously sharp but so is the left and right edge of the bevel. Often what I will do on boxes is make that parting cut and do a shear cut on lip of the box using the edge of the bevel. If you look at it the bevel edge will be removing wood at about a 45 degree angle which is a pretty good shear cut. I've also rounded over a bead using the same sort of technique you use with the 3 point tool. Go to the bottom of the bead and rotate the parting tool very slightly so the bevel edge is cutting. Then drag the tool up the bead and over toward the top of the bead. It's very much like scraping with the skew but you are getting a shear cut.
 
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I was shortening a piece on the lathe that is to be the body for a Christmas ornament. When I was presenting the tool, I saw that the wood on either side of the tool burned black. Means a lot of sanding. It is a 1/4 wide parting tool. Any suggestions as how to prevent this?
Wobble the tool as you plunge in making the kerf just a skoosh larger than the tool I don't know why parting tools are not all wedge shaped Seems a consistent design flaw that never gets worked out. Maybe it's a trade off so the used doesn't have to re position the support?
 
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Wobble the tool as you plunge in making the kerf just a skoosh larger than the tool I don't know why parting tools are not all wedge shaped Seems a consistent design flaw that never gets worked out. Maybe it's a trade off so the used doesn't have to re position the support?

As to wedge shape, my first choice in parting tool is one of my French-style bedans - either 3/16” or 3/8”. These are made by Henry Taylor and highly recommended by Jean Francois Escoulen.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=63557&cat=1,330,49233,43164
 
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Wobble the tool as you plunge in making the kerf just a skoosh larger than the tool I don't know why parting tools are not all wedge shaped Seems a consistent design flaw that never gets worked out. Maybe it's a trade off so the used doesn't have to re position the support?
Could be price -- paying for steel that is then ground away, at an extra cost for the perfect, nit-picky grinding. Hoping the D-Way thin parting tool is under my tree this year. Also, there are uses for a perfectly flat, V-shaped parting tool that aren't amenable to the diamond-shape or even slightly tapered such as Dave's. I've been thinking for awhile now about getting a bedan such as Owen linked to, would serve the same purpose (squaring up a shoulder, for instance).
 
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Could be price -- paying for steel that is then ground away, at an extra cost for the perfect, nit-picky grinding. Hoping the D-Way thin parting tool is under my tree this year. Also, there are uses for a perfectly flat, V-shaped parting tool that aren't amenable to the diamond-shape or even slightly tapered such as Dave's. I've been thinking for awhile now about getting a bedan such as Owen linked to, would serve the same purpose (squaring up a shoulder, for instance).

OOOPS! It looks like the Lee Valley bedans are straight-sided (in the description). Mine must be Sorby - they are definitely wedge shaped. Both have been re-handled and I can’t find any etchings on the metal.
 
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Sorby parting tools.jpg For parting off I like the thin Sorby parting tool, it cuts very well with the double points and takes very little wood at 2mm thick, the other one with the groove on the bottom I do not like as, using it on cast or soft steel, it cut into it, not a point if you have the hardened rod on the toolrest.

Just wobble the thin tool as you plunge it into the turning and there is no binding for me.
 
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When I listened to Stuart Batty in the following video, I was intrigued at his take on parting tools. He says, "A Diamond Parting Tool is kinda junk. Whoever invented the diamond parting tool didn't know anything about parting in. The reason for that is the diamond parting tool...as I've ground this tool, I was able to put a burr on either side and on the bottom. So as you part in you'll self clear. A diamond parting tool can never self clear..." (not 100% on the transcription, but pretty close)

I tried to link to about 29m36s, but that may or may not work.

View: https://youtu.be/QMVGankeK0I?t=1776


He sharpens his tools a lot in this video, or it seemed that way to me. Shortly after the point in the video that I linked to, after making 3 parting cuts, he comments that the parting tool is getting dull.

An interesting video, if you have the time. Not really about parting specifically, but a lot of good information how the tools interact with the grain.
 
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When I listened to Stuart Batty in the following video, I was intrigued at his take on parting tools. He says, "A Diamond Parting Tool is kinda junk. Whoever invented the diamond parting tool didn't know anything about parting in. The reason for that is the diamond parting tool...as I've ground this tool, I was able to put a burr on either side and on the bottom. So as you part in you'll self clear. A diamond parting tool can never self clear..." (not 100% on the transcription, but pretty close)

An interesting video, if you have the time. Not really about parting specifically, but a lot of good information how the tools interact with the grain.
Barry, thanks much for posting that link -- that demo was very much like the one I attended a few weeks ago, except that in the local demo he made a "winged" bowl (bowl off center within a frame of thin, flat wood). The video you posted will really helps me remember the different tool presentations he showed, and some detail about the 40/40 grind. With regard to the diamond PT, although I have two of them, I've always found the square ones to work much better, quite possibly because of the "extra" burrs. I'd just about give my eye teeth to take a Batty workshop.:D
 
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Bill Boehme

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He sharpens his tools a lot in this video, or it seemed that way to me. Shortly after the point in the video that I linked to, after making 3 parting cuts, he comments that the parting tool is getting dull.

It didn't seem excessive to me ... considering the content of the demo where he was showing the best cut that can be achieved with various tools and various ways of using each of them.

Even in ordinary use turning tools need to be frequently sharpened or honed .
 

john lucas

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I remember him saying that when I saw his demo. I had and still use a diamond parting tool although I tend to use my Thompson flat parting tool the most now. I didn't seem to have any of the problems he talked about. The only exception is needing to sharpen it so the sharpest part is exactly on the widest part of the tool. One think he mentioned was that it won't cut straight. I have never had that problem. On deep cuts I don't find the regular parting tool clears any better than the diamond parting tool. I tend to pick up the Thompson most often out of habit and for the ease of sharpening.
 
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Sooner or later it finally sinks in that a sharp tool is quicker and cleaner for cutting wood.
Locating a grinder in close proximity to your turning area speeds the sharpening process,
and turns the sharpening process in to a time saver. If your grinder is located any distance
away from your lathe it is effective to have multiple lathe tools that you can sharpen at one
time and always have a sharp tool when needed. Most wood turners have a wall of tools to
choose from, if they are all kept sharp you always have a sharp tool when needed. When my
tools come off the wall they don't go back until they have been re-sharpened.
 

john lucas

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Well I do both. I have my sharpening system several steps away. It relaxes my back and relieves tension when I walk that 8 or 10 steps to my sharpening station. I still sharpen probably more than most people. However today I'm turning ornaments and using only my Hunter tools so no sharpening.
 
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I'm fortunate enough to have a space for sawdust (woodworking) and a separate space for sparks (metalworking). I recently moved the bench grinder I use for sharpening to be just inside the door of the metalworking area so it's close to the lathe, but I still make sparks in an area that doesn't have all that dust.
 
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Know what you mean, guys, and thanks. It would be nice to have a variety of tools, even duplicates, to keep turning.
My son will be talking with a motor expert at work this week and see if the rheostat from another motor can be adapted to my high RPM grinder. If not, I will have to learn to use a light touch.
John Lucas.....planning on being in Cookeville for your demo on sharpening. Wife might be coming but she hasn't decided yet. Send a PM with the address and directions. Will be coming up to Crossville and then to Cookeville on I-40. Thanks.
 
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Well I do both. I have my sharpening system several steps away. It relaxes my back and relieves tension when I walk that 8 or 10 steps to my sharpening station. I still sharpen probably more than most people. However today I'm turning ornaments and using only my Hunter tools so no sharpening.
One trick for helping a back that gets sore from standing still--put some sort of a box or flat chunk of wood under your lathe near where you're going to stand. Then put your foot up on it, like you're about to step up on the stairs--it flattens your back and feels better. In a while, switch to the other foot. Then back to the first foot. It's very important that whatever you use stays put and does not pose a tripping risk. The height or thickness of the step should be customized to whatever proves most comfortable. In the olden days when standing for hours while remaining quite still was a periodic part of my work, my top half would be rock steady, while my bottom half was practically peddling a bicycle.
 

john lucas

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Dean I tried that after reading an article in the AAW mag a long time ago. I move too much. I use my body for all of the cuts and because of that just can't stand still.
 
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Good news that goes along with tools and sharpening them. As I had indicated earlier, I said my son was going to check with a fellow at work about using a rheostat from a motor that I have. The guru recognized the motor from where he and my son worked; motor was going to be trashed so my son rescued it. The motor guru said I could use the rheostat to control the speed of my grinder (3450 rpm) and suggested a couple of ways it could be done. Also, he said that a light dimmer would work as the dimmer is rated to 10A while the grinder motor pulls only 3.7A. Another project for the workbench.

John, sounds like you have harnessed perpetual motion while turning.
 
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A lot of folks have responded with outstanding advice. I'd like to add a bit more advice on making the kerf larger than the parting tool. When parting, one process I use is:
  • Mark where to part with a pencil
  • Go in about the depth of the thickness of the part
  • Go out, then in again with a bit of angle towards the headstock, deeper.
  • Ditto, but angle towards the tailstock.
  • Repeat until you're almost parted
  • Stop the lathe, and finish parting with a saw, by hand
What you're doing, is you're making a kerf that's wider on the inside of the piece than on the outside of the piece. In some cases, that's a better match for your desired final shape. This saves a lot of time in post-part turning. You're still going to have some torn grain at the bottom of the part, but that cleans up pretty easily. The saw part is to prevent tearing out a bunch of fibers parting through, or having a piece fly away and hide.
 
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Hy Tran, good idea and thanks. It's not hard to find a flying piece as I have a small shop.
 
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I have my sharpening system several steps away. It relaxes my back and relieves tension when I walk that 8 or 10 steps to my sharpening station.
John, it's about that far in my shop from the lathe to the laptop, which broadcasts my Pandora music stream. It really does help to take that short walk periodically -- we were not meant to stand in one place and use basically one position for long periods of time! So a new song or unfamiliar but interesting musician is a great excuse to take a little walk and click on ThumbsUp.:)
 

Mark Hepburn

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Jamie, same here. Pandora and a thumbs up is a good break. Also my coffee is over there too. Gotta hydrate. :)
 

john lucas

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Jamie you said we weren't meant to stand in one place. Definitely not. I have to sharpen my spear frequently and work on my fight or flight response. I don't think I've ever posted a photo of my Neanderthal dating service piece. I'll have to do that when I get from Indiana in a few days.
 
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