By complete luck I happened upon a large piece of beautifully spalted maple. I had never turned anything like this, so I cut a bowl blank and rough turned it fairly green. It is now dried and I despite making my gouge the sharpest I know how, I cannot produce an end grain cut that does not have massive damage. This wood is fairly soft, but are there any techniques to use, or treatments to apply that might allow me to get a decent end grain cut in this stuff?
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Prep for Turning Spalted Maple?
- Thread starter Abe
- Start date
I am not sure this will work for spalted wood - but it works for soft wood like Buckeye, etc. - I think I got this from a demo that Ray Key did a number of years ago -maybe someone else. Try putting a bit of oil (Danish or ?) on the soft wood and let it sit for a few minutes. Then try cutting with a sharp gouge. The cut is only good for the depth the oil has soaked in. One of the turners in our club uses CA glue. Just watch out for the dust. But it does work. Good luck.
Hugh
Hugh
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punky wood
“Spalted†sells better than “rotted†most likely your bowl is a bit punky.
With punky wood what tends to happen is that the wood compresses instead of cutting and it sort of crumbs off leaving torn grain.
I think there was a real long thread on punky wood a few month back maybe you can find it.
To get it to cut cleanly you need to take lighter cuts with sharper tools and most likely stiffen the fibers so that they will cut instead of compress.
Sometimes just making the finish cuts with a ¼ bowl gouge or a long beveled spindle gouge will work. These tools won’t compress the wood as much as a ½ bowl gouge, they take a lighter cut, exert less bevel pressure on the wood and are probably bit sharper.
There lots of ways to try to stabilize the wood.
Techniques and product for stiffening the fibers or stabilizing the wood vary in effectiveness and complexity.
On pieces that are just a bit punky, wetting the wood with water will swell and lock the fibers sufficiently to get a clean cut. As mentioned above a thin Danish oil will work sometimes. A application of thinned lacquer or thinned shellac will penetrate and lock the fibers. CA works for the cutting but I don't like the way the wood finishes on lighter woods like maple.
More expensive and involve solutions are the rotten wood fixers that sort of change the wood into plastic.
In turning your dried bowl to round you have the added problem that the proud parts will be the endgrain where the tear out is likely to be the most problematic. You need true the bowl with light controlled cuts. This takes a bit of practice since you are cutting air and wood.
happy turning,
Al
“Spalted†sells better than “rotted†most likely your bowl is a bit punky.
With punky wood what tends to happen is that the wood compresses instead of cutting and it sort of crumbs off leaving torn grain.
I think there was a real long thread on punky wood a few month back maybe you can find it.
To get it to cut cleanly you need to take lighter cuts with sharper tools and most likely stiffen the fibers so that they will cut instead of compress.
Sometimes just making the finish cuts with a ¼ bowl gouge or a long beveled spindle gouge will work. These tools won’t compress the wood as much as a ½ bowl gouge, they take a lighter cut, exert less bevel pressure on the wood and are probably bit sharper.
There lots of ways to try to stabilize the wood.
Techniques and product for stiffening the fibers or stabilizing the wood vary in effectiveness and complexity.
On pieces that are just a bit punky, wetting the wood with water will swell and lock the fibers sufficiently to get a clean cut. As mentioned above a thin Danish oil will work sometimes. A application of thinned lacquer or thinned shellac will penetrate and lock the fibers. CA works for the cutting but I don't like the way the wood finishes on lighter woods like maple.
More expensive and involve solutions are the rotten wood fixers that sort of change the wood into plastic.
In turning your dried bowl to round you have the added problem that the proud parts will be the endgrain where the tear out is likely to be the most problematic. You need true the bowl with light controlled cuts. This takes a bit of practice since you are cutting air and wood.
happy turning,
Al
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For actual cut techniques, three things come to mind. For either, you need to make sure your gouge is razor sharp. I mean seriously shave with it razor sharp.
First, take that really light cut, riding the bevel very gently and making absolutely sure that you are cutting pushing the grain into itself. If you are turning side grain, this means middle to rim on the outside and rim to middle on the inside.
Second, are you familiar with the Ellsworth Shuffle? Take a bowl gouge with an Ellsworth grind on it. Hold it with the handle down and the long edge of the gouge facing the bowl. If done right, you should be almost vertical with the edge opposite the direction you are cutting barely contacting the wood. By shuffling it slowly and gently, you'll do a shear scrape that will remove amazingly thin curls from the softest wood and leave a clean surface with little or no tearout. Takes practice and you may have to find someone to actually show you how to get it right (I did).
Lastly, I heard on this forum about rubbing paste wax into the wood where it's torn out prior to cut or sand. Tried it and, lo and behold, it worked great!
There's my 2cents worth.
Good luck,
Dietrich
First, take that really light cut, riding the bevel very gently and making absolutely sure that you are cutting pushing the grain into itself. If you are turning side grain, this means middle to rim on the outside and rim to middle on the inside.
Second, are you familiar with the Ellsworth Shuffle? Take a bowl gouge with an Ellsworth grind on it. Hold it with the handle down and the long edge of the gouge facing the bowl. If done right, you should be almost vertical with the edge opposite the direction you are cutting barely contacting the wood. By shuffling it slowly and gently, you'll do a shear scrape that will remove amazingly thin curls from the softest wood and leave a clean surface with little or no tearout. Takes practice and you may have to find someone to actually show you how to get it right (I did).
Lastly, I heard on this forum about rubbing paste wax into the wood where it's torn out prior to cut or sand. Tried it and, lo and behold, it worked great!
There's my 2cents worth.
Good luck,
Dietrich
polyall 2000
this product meets the specs for turning spalted wood. it has the viscosity of water; it penetrates instantly; it cures in 2-3 minutes; it doesn't change the color of the wood; it doesn't plasticize the feel of the wood; it doesn't effect how the wood finishes. other than the smell that disappears within a week, the stuff is a great saver for wood that is has gone to the other side of cellulose stability.
i apply the polyall just before i start my final cuts...or as the tear-out gets very bad.
i think the web site is www.polyall.com check it out -- the old car restores have been using this product for years. i love the stuff!
e
this product meets the specs for turning spalted wood. it has the viscosity of water; it penetrates instantly; it cures in 2-3 minutes; it doesn't change the color of the wood; it doesn't plasticize the feel of the wood; it doesn't effect how the wood finishes. other than the smell that disappears within a week, the stuff is a great saver for wood that is has gone to the other side of cellulose stability.
i apply the polyall just before i start my final cuts...or as the tear-out gets very bad.
i think the web site is www.polyall.com check it out -- the old car restores have been using this product for years. i love the stuff!
e
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polyall clean-up
-e-
I checked out the website for Polyall, but I did not see any info about clean-up. What have you found to be a solvent or good clean-up for Polyall?
What do you know about its toxicity?
Thanks,
-e-
I checked out the website for Polyall, but I did not see any info about clean-up. What have you found to be a solvent or good clean-up for Polyall?
What do you know about its toxicity?
Thanks,
How does that polyall finish? Do you still have grain texture or is it like a block of plastic wood? Can you use oil finishes or do you have to just sand and buff? How expensive and how much do you have to use? Is it a version of CA?
Just a few questions.
Dietrich
Just a few questions.
Dietrich
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I've used the polyall on some Historic Wye Oak pieces whose sapwood was so punky I could crumble it with my fingers. Cyndy Drozda suggested it when she was here teaching a class at Maryland Hall. It works great as a stabilizer but I view it as a last resort for wood you really want to save.
Polyall is a 2 part resin and it does stabilize wood.
The only reason I would ever use this product is that it does work.
The down sides are many: it is rather expensive, has a short working time,
takes a long time to treat a big area, tends to fill voids with yuk looking plastic, and I think it gives a plastic feel to the wood.
The 2 part resin has a short working time once mixed. It is very watery at first and I have been able to wet the application areas for about 3 minutes at most, then all at once the polyall begins to turn rubbery and no longer penetrates. Treating even a small piece, I have had to mix several batches.
Hi Ed, as far as clean up I don't think any is needed, just don't get it on anything. I throw away the brush and it doesn't bond to the mixing dish they give you so after about 5 minutes what I didn't get applied peels out. Wear throw away gloves. I use a foam brushes (20 for a $1. at micheals.)
I've applied the polyall to turnings that I could literally pull apart with my fingers and then done the finish turning. It hardens the wood making clean cuts and smooth surface achievable either with turning or carving.
If the simple solutions don't work and you have a piece of special wood. Polyall might be worth a try.
happy turning,
AL
Polyall is a 2 part resin and it does stabilize wood.
The only reason I would ever use this product is that it does work.
The down sides are many: it is rather expensive, has a short working time,
takes a long time to treat a big area, tends to fill voids with yuk looking plastic, and I think it gives a plastic feel to the wood.
The 2 part resin has a short working time once mixed. It is very watery at first and I have been able to wet the application areas for about 3 minutes at most, then all at once the polyall begins to turn rubbery and no longer penetrates. Treating even a small piece, I have had to mix several batches.
Hi Ed, as far as clean up I don't think any is needed, just don't get it on anything. I throw away the brush and it doesn't bond to the mixing dish they give you so after about 5 minutes what I didn't get applied peels out. Wear throw away gloves. I use a foam brushes (20 for a $1. at micheals.)
I've applied the polyall to turnings that I could literally pull apart with my fingers and then done the finish turning. It hardens the wood making clean cuts and smooth surface achievable either with turning or carving.
If the simple solutions don't work and you have a piece of special wood. Polyall might be worth a try.
happy turning,
AL
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more on polyall
ed: i don't know the solvent however send polyall customer service an email with the question. They responded to my question on the smell immediately.
As with all my solvent-based finishes, I expect the resins to be toxic until cured. I use gloves on everything. Included in the package is a plastic bowl, two measuring cups, and gloves ... i recommend using the substance in a well-ventilated area as the smell is very strong. After it has cured, it's the same as any finish.
i usually mix up just one serving at a time ---apply it on the area with a sponge brush. Depending on the room temperature, it takes only a few minutes to solidify. There is very little heat generated. If it is a large piece, I then move on to the next area.
Since the viscosity is like water, it penetrates into the wood fibers instead of just onto the surface. As I take my final cuts, the wood appears as wood, not plastic.
i disagree that it leaves the wood with a plastic feeling.
it finishes quite well -- and doesn't change the wood color. check out ralph rameriz's carob bowl -- http://www.elegance-in-wood.com/forsale.html --- the wood was very punky. ralph uses a deft lac finish.
also, see my sycamore bowl --- http://www.woodturner.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=440
-- it should have been titled "beyond the state of spalting". I used a true acrylic finish.
also, if you need a resin with a longer working time, Smith & Co. produces something very similar to Polyall. You can also find it at Japan Woodworker. I've not used this myself, however many of my ww colleagues have.
ed: i don't know the solvent however send polyall customer service an email with the question. They responded to my question on the smell immediately.
As with all my solvent-based finishes, I expect the resins to be toxic until cured. I use gloves on everything. Included in the package is a plastic bowl, two measuring cups, and gloves ... i recommend using the substance in a well-ventilated area as the smell is very strong. After it has cured, it's the same as any finish.
i usually mix up just one serving at a time ---apply it on the area with a sponge brush. Depending on the room temperature, it takes only a few minutes to solidify. There is very little heat generated. If it is a large piece, I then move on to the next area.
Since the viscosity is like water, it penetrates into the wood fibers instead of just onto the surface. As I take my final cuts, the wood appears as wood, not plastic.
i disagree that it leaves the wood with a plastic feeling.
it finishes quite well -- and doesn't change the wood color. check out ralph rameriz's carob bowl -- http://www.elegance-in-wood.com/forsale.html --- the wood was very punky. ralph uses a deft lac finish.
also, see my sycamore bowl --- http://www.woodturner.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=440
-- it should have been titled "beyond the state of spalting". I used a true acrylic finish.
also, if you need a resin with a longer working time, Smith & Co. produces something very similar to Polyall. You can also find it at Japan Woodworker. I've not used this myself, however many of my ww colleagues have.
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