Relative quality of Jacobs Chucks

[Jamie Straw]

Are there good, better, best Jacobs chucks? I'm upgrading some accessories and also would like to have more than one JC, so I looked in the Packard catalog thinking they might have a better one than what I have. But theirs seems generic, no brand-name. Are there some that are know to be a cut above in quality control?

 

[Tom Albrecht]

I am not a machinist, but I do know that there are no-name generics and then there are higher quality chucks within brand names. I believe a higher quality chuck will also give you a larger range and grip down to almost 1/64". I recently bought a Jacobs keyless chuck on a # 2 MT and paid close to $150 and it was not the least expensive keyless model. I thought it would be cool to have a chuck with my name on it, but an Albrecht chuck of the same dimensions was close to $500.
Browse the Jacobs chucks on MSC http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Drill-Chucks?searchterm=jacobs&navid=12108655+4294942405 and you will see the specs and how they differ. I am not saying you should buy there, but they sure have all the details on all the chucks as a resource.

You will find that the higher quality chucks have ball bearings and are built to closer tolerances.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Comes down to what tolerances you need to meet for the items you are making versus
the amount of green backs you are willing to part with. I have a couple of cheap import
jacob chucks that I have used on my wood lathe for a number of years with no problems.
On several occasions I have borrowed my higher quality jacobs chuck from my metal lathe
to use on a particular piece for a higher tolerance result.

 

[john lucas]

Buy the one from Bestwoodtools. It is keyless and excellent.

 

[Bill Boehme]

If you're needing high precision for something then consider a set of collet chucks. For almost all woodturning purposes any three jaw drill chuck should work. BTW, they do wear out although I'm too cheap to toss out one that is around forty years old.

 

[hockenbery]

I have a keyless chuck with #3 MT from VM woodworking.
Also available withna #2 MT.
It is a great chuck

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Are there good, better, best Jacobs chucks? I'm upgrading some accessories and also would like to have more than one JC, so I looked in the Packard catalog thinking they might have a better one than what I have. But theirs seems generic, no brand-name. Are there some that are know to be a cut above in quality control?

Is there good better best in Jacobs chucks ??, YUP.

I like to use quality tools, hurts only once, rather than being part of the race to the lowest cost/quality that bites you in the ass many times over.
My Jacobs ball bearing chuck runs true holds well and my grandkids will be able to use them and give to their children, got a couple other Jacobs chucks that are older, one is a 0-½” one other is 1/16-½”, they are heavy chucks and run true, I bought a drill press a few years ago that had a Hungarian made chuck, not a bad chuck, but I took that one off and gave it to my youngest son that had a small cheap drill press with a wobbly chuck and so he got a better one and I stuck a nice ball bearing chuck on my press. (cost as much as the press )
I don’t like the keyless chuck on the lathe, as the twisting and twisting to tighten and then loosen and change bits and do it all over again, hard on the wrist in that position as well.
Quite nice on a handheld drill with reverse, as you just pull the trigger to tighten/loosen the chuck

You can choose which one you like or fits in what you want to use it for.

http://www.jacobschuck.com/technical-information

 

[Bill Boehme]

Quite nice on a handheld drill with reverse, as you just pull the trigger to tighten/loosen the chuck

The instructions that came with my DeWalt drills say not to do that. I replaced the original keyed chuck on my drill press (Jacobs brand) with a keyless chuck that I bought from one of the vendors at the SWAT symposium several years ago. The main reason was that the original chuck only went down to 1/8". I really like the smooth operation and solid holding of the keyless chuck. The only downside is that the maximum diameter is 1/2".

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

The instructions that came with my DeWalt drills say not to do that. I replaced the original keyed chuck on my drill press (Jacobs brand) with a keyless chuck that I bought from one of the vendors at the SWAT symposium several years ago. The main reason was that the original chuck only went down to 1/8". I really like the smooth operation and solid holding of the keyless chuck. The only downside is that the maximum diameter is 1/2".

I’m glad they never told me, and a good reason not to buy a DeWalt

For larger bits I rather use them with MT, as the large bits are hard on a chuck, especially the tuned down shank ones.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I've also always heard that you shouldn't tighten a keyed chuck that way either, but it seems to be an almost universal practices. Also, I was taught a long time ago to use the key in all three positions when tightening a keyed chuck, but again the vast majority of people don't do that either.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I agree with Hockenbery, VM Woodworking sells two very good ones. I have bought more than few from them. I have used them for years.

 

[Grant Wilkinson]

As Leo says, good ball bearing Jacobs chucks last forever. That said, that's likely why I have been able to find excellent used ones on local for sale boards. I didn't buy them so much for the precision, although that's a great feature. I just like the way they operate - SMOOTH!

 

[odie]

Also, I was taught a long time ago to use the key in all three positions when tightening a keyed chuck, but again the vast majority of people don't do that either.

Gradually tightening in all three positions is the preferred way to do it. It might also be a bit more precision for centering the bit in the chuck, too*.......

(* Well, that's my theory anyway! )

 

[John Torchick]

Hmmm. Have a three jaw chuck from HF and a keyed chuck for MT #2 from HF. So far, so good. As for tightening in all three locations on the chuck, never heard of that. Been around machining and manufacturing since 1964- this is news to me. Never heard anyone say anything about this.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Cross pattern jacobs chuck tightening, I read it on the internet........it must be true.

 

[john lucas]

I also have one from VM woodworking. It has a #3 morse taper and I use it in my metal lathe. The reason I like the keyless chucks at the lathe is simply, I don't have to look for the key all the time. On my drill press I have a magnet to hold the chuck key but on the lathe I already have too much stuff laying around or stuck on magnets. I'm not a fan of keyless chucks in my drill press. It takes 2 hands to loosen the chuck and the drill bit falls out and through the hole in the base. I've broken the tip on a brad point doing that. With the key you can loosen the chuck with one hand and hold the drill bit with the other. On the lathe this isn't a problem because the chuck is horizontal.
I have a good friend who is an engineer and he says that you don't have to tighten chucks in all 3. The chuck key tightens a ramp which moves the jaws and it should tighten all the way by doing this in one hole. That being said I have never seen a good machinist not tighten a chuck using all 3 or 4 holes. Good machinists generally know what it takes to really really lock something down.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Hmmm. Have a three jaw chuck from HF and a keyed chuck for MT #2 from HF. So far, so good. As for tightening in all three locations on the chuck, never heard of that. Been around machining and manufacturing since 1964- this is news to me. Never heard anyone say anything about this.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Hmmm. Have a three jaw chuck from HF and a keyed chuck for MT #2 from HF. So far, so good. As for tightening in all three locations on the chuck, never heard of that. Been around machining and manufacturing since 1964- this is news to me. Never heard anyone say anything about this.

I believe that the practice arose 60 years or so ago as a gag on newby machinists. If you inspect closely you see that the three key stations all do exactly the same thing -- they pry the ring gear around to tighten or loosen.

 

[hockenbery]

When John Brewer was still with us he used to demonstrate metal spinning for the Chesapeake Woodturner's. He was a pretty good turner and a superb metal spinner.

Two things I heard John talk about more than once.
1. You need a foundation in the basics to succeed. John got his metal spinning foundation through lessons from the best metal spinner in Baltimore. The guy had never taught but John convinced him to do it by paying him the hourly rate he charged for custom metal spinning.
2. John said he always used all the tightening holes in the chuck because his friend, Mr. Black, told him to and he thought his friend knew what he was talking about since he was the first half of Black&Decker.

With admiration and fondness for my freind John Brewer- I use all the tightening holes.
If I am continuing a myth I do so with reveremce.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Gradually tightening in all three positions is the preferred way to do it. It might also be a bit more precision for centering the bit in the chuck, too*.......

(* Well, that's my theory anyway! )

Anytime I want a better hold drilling metal, more than needed in drilling wood, I have always tightened all three sides, as I assume odie is thinking similar, there are clearances for the parts to be able to move, and by using only one side to tighten you will force “things” to one side, going around you will do away with that, and yes I have felt that you can actually tighten a chuck more and better that way.

 

[Bill Boehme]

In theory just using one hole should be sufficient . . . the same thing goes for a woodturning scroll chuck . . . that's the theory if it weren't for pesky friction. Does anybody here only use one of the two locations on a woodturning scroll chuck? Maybe I'm the only one who tightens the chuck at both locations. . . multiple times, in fact. I do it because I find that there is a bit of slack when I rotate the chuck halfway around and tighten on the other side.

Dealing with friction in the real world compels us to do things that might seem unnecessary in an idealized frictionless world. Why do we tighten wheel lug nuts in an alternating pattern? How about the head bolts on an engine?

I have this rule that I don't lend tools to folks that I like . . . the reason being that I want to continue being friends with them. I violated my rule about a dozen years ago and loaned my hammer drill to a co-worker friend who was doing some remodeling and needed to drill concrete to install anchor bolts. It was my mistake for assuming the he knew that you absolutely have to tighten the chuck at all three holes in a hammer drill or else the vibration will cause the bit to come loose. I was the one to blame for needing to replace the chuck and several carbide tipped impact drill bits because he continued to run the drill while the bit was slipping in the chuck. We're still friends, but he favors software and shies away from hardware.

 

[Jamie Straw]

I don’t like the keyless chuck on the lathe, as the twisting and twisting to tighten and then loosen and change bits and do it all over again, hard on the wrist in that position as well.

I like keyless on regular drills, but on the lathe I suspect it would be too hard on my well-worn wrists. Save a little $$, though, going with a keyed chuck.

 

[odie]

In theory just using one hole should be sufficient . . . the same thing goes for a woodturning scroll chuck . . . that's the theory if it weren't for pesky friction. Does anybody here only use one of the two locations on a woodturning scroll chuck? Maybe I'm the only one who tightens the chuck at both locations. . . multiple times, in fact. I do it because I find that there is a bit of slack when I rotate the chuck halfway around and tighten on the other side.

I do the same on the scroll chuck. Tighten a little on one side, then rotate to the other side, repeat. I'm finding the same "slack" after rotating to the other side. When both sides are snug to my liking equally, then it's ready to use.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I just made a sanity check this evening to verify how I tighten my keyless chuck on the drill press. I confirmed that there is enough inertia in the drive train that back-driving is pretty stiff and I only need one hand to tighten my keyless chuck. So my procedure is hold the drill bit in my left hand and snug up the chuck with the right hand until all three jaws are holding the drill bit. And, as a last step I might "set" the chuck jaws by giving the chuck a final quick twisting motion. If it's a really large Forstner bit I might do a two hand final tightening of the chuck, but normally the only time that I need two hands on the chuck is to loosen its grip on larger bits. I try to remember to keep a pinky applying side pressure on those bits after having a couple bits drop through the hole in the table.

 

[Raul McCai]

Are there good, better, best Jacobs chucks? I'm upgrading some accessories and also would like to have more than one JC, so I looked in the Packard catalog thinking they might have a better one than what I have. But theirs seems generic, no brand-name. Are there some that are know to be a cut above in quality control?

never had a problem with Jacobs
Albrecht is the best and keyless
http://www.albrecht-germany.com/en/products/
But Never had a problem with Jacobs

It's like
Do I need a Ruger Blackhawk or a Smith and Wesson 629 V-Comp
Both will hit what you shoot at.

 

[John Torchick]

It seems that tightening the jaws on a Jacobs chuck would be the same as tightening a collet. The forces would be equal on all sides. As for clearances as Leo mentions, it would also seem that the higher quality chucks would have the tighter tolerances.

 

[Raul McCai]

On the trick of using all three positions to tighten a chuck:

Yah it makes a difference.
Will you see this difference in woodworking?
That's a joke, , , , , , , , right?

This is in a hobby class drill press or a wood lathe right? We aren't talking Moog boring machines.

The difference is two fold: (1) tightness Try tapping a 3/8-16 bolt hole in half inch thick 4140 steel with a keyed chuck to hold the tap and you will find it necessary to apply the key vigorously to all three stations and (2) accuracy which accuracy is so small (in a good chuck) that you won't ever see the delta. And for sure in wood you won't ever ever ever see it at all. Maybe with a hunk of Chinese garbage you'll see it, but if you are running a Chinese chuck, well don't ask me for advice because my first advice will be to toss that metal-ish butter substitute in the garbage can

As to the whole accuracy thing. It's a relative term.
Woodworkers can't work to the same kinds of accuracy as do machinists because of the equipment and the materials. They don't need to because they rarely deal with tolerance stack and certainly not in critical ways ( oops critical another relative term). Breath on a hunk of wood and it changes shape. Metals move with temperature, but it's all predictable using a formula and the movement is nothing like wood.

 

[John Torchick]

Raul, I would think the chuck on expensive machinery would be of high quality with very tight tolerances.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

In theory just using one hole should be sufficient . . . the same thing goes for a woodturning scroll chuck . . . that's the theory if it weren't for pesky friction. Does anybody here only use one of the two locations on a woodturning scroll chuck? Maybe I'm the only one who tightens the chuck at both locations. . . multiple times, in fact. I do it because I find that there is a bit of slack when I rotate the chuck halfway around and tighten on the other side.

Dealing with friction in the real world compels us to do things that might seem unnecessary in an idealized frictionless world. Why do we tighten wheel lug nuts in an alternating pattern? How about the head bolts on an engine?

I have this rule that I don't lend tools to folks that I like . . . the reason being that I want to continue being friends with them. I violated my rule about a dozen years ago and loaned my hammer drill to a co-worker friend who was doing some remodeling and needed to drill concrete to install anchor bolts. It was my mistake for assuming the he knew that you absolutely have to tighten the chuck at all three holes in a hammer drill or else the vibration will cause the bit to come loose. I was the one to blame for needing to replace the chuck and several carbide tipped impact drill bits because he continued to run the drill while the bit was slipping in the chuck. We're still friends, but he favors software and shies away from hardware.

Bill, I am one of those guys who uses only one of the holes to tighten my scroll chucks. Of course, I use chucks with toggle bars rather than keys, but I believe the situation on both is pretty much the same. Personally, I do not accept friction as something that would explain why prying a ring gear around at one point on its circumference would yield a different result that prying it at another. I would expect that prying it multiple times at any one point would achieve the same result on average as prying that same number of times at multiple points. For exactly the same reasons, when doing final torquing of a hex head bolt I do not repeat the operation for all six possible rotations of the torque wrench relative to the bolt head.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Good point Dennis, except that when you are "prying a ring gear around at one point on its circumference" and it comes to a stop, and then you move to the opposite point on the circumference and find more slack, then return to the original point and find slack again--- that kinda tells me it's a good idea.

 

[Jamie Straw]

I have a keyless chuck with #3 MT from VM woodworking.
Also available withna #2 MT.
It is a great chuck

Do you have a website link for them? I searched, but didn't see what looked like the right place.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Buy the one from Bestwoodtools. It is keyless and excellent.

John, I guess I'll have to call them. The catalog on their website is from 2014 (doesn't have a chuck near as I can tell). Small company?

 

[Jamie Straw]

never had a problem with Jacobs
Albrecht is the best and keyless
http://www.albrecht-germany.com/en/products/
But Never had a problem with Jacobs

It's like
Do I need a Ruger Blackhawk or a Smith and Wesson 629 V-Comp
Both will hit what you shoot at.

Not looking for machine-shop quality, not even sure I need to change. But the one I have is from PSI, and since then I've not had great luck with the other products bought from them, so thought I'd educate m'self some.

 

[Clifton C]

Just another place to look. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1660&category=7
And then an arbor, http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1883&category=
I would try to get a drawbar style morse taper arbor, you can hold onto the chuck when it's in the tailstock, but it's kinda hard to hold onto when in the headstock...
cc

 

[hockenbery]

Do you have a website link for them? I searched, but didn't see what looked like the right place.

I don't have a direct contact.

Google sent me to woodchuckers. Have not dealt with them but you can see the chuck.
http://shop.woodchuckers.com/brand/vm-woodworking

 

[john lucas]

Some where I have a card for Micheal at VMwoodworking. I'll check. Now that the holidays are over you can probably reach Vic and his wife at Bestwoodtools. The difference in the ones I have is just a matter of the grease used internally. The VM chuck I have is hard to move in cold weather. works fine in the summer. The Bestwoodtools chuck works very smooth all the time. The VM chuck obviously works well for others. I don't have a complaint other than that. They both claim that the chuck actually tightens with use but I find that a keyed chuck doesn't slip as easily, at least when drilling metal. I doubt you'll ever have a problem in wood.

 

[odie]

Good point Dennis, except that when you are "prying a ring gear around at one point on its circumference" and it comes to a stop, and then you move to the opposite point on the circumference and find more slack, then return to the original point and find slack again--- that kinda tells me it's a good idea.

This is a significant thought, Tom.......

I have noticed the "slack" when tightening the opposite side of scroll chucks, as well as using all three chuck key ports on Jacobs type chucks. It only makes sense that any slack is an indication that all parts of the chuck are not fully seated as well as they could be. Overall, it's best to snug up at one port, but not tight, then move to the next, and gradually increase torque pressure on the chuck key.....until that point where the slack is no longer noticeabe.

Now, I understand that some people feel this is a myth, or old wive's tale......but, it's a procedure that is not new to me. Regardless, it may be something that is irrelevant to the needs of woodturners.......but, anything at all that improves accuracy, however insignificant that might be, isn't too unrealistic to do......especially since it's such an easy thing to do.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The main issue I have with tightening all three positions on the chuck, is that I normally
have the chuck installed in the tail stock of the lathe and usually switching between sizes
of drill bits needed for the task, this presents (1) position to be easily accessed for tightening.
Drilling metal on a drill press is a different story which requires the drill to be firmly secured.
Many years ago I did production turning on a metal lathe, anyone doing this for a living learns
and develops the minimum number of moves for every process to maximize output. If I had nothing
but time on my hands I might consider being OCD with certain processes, but working full time and
having a side-line business my fun time is a valuable asset. Most of the drill bits I use on my wood lathe
have a pentagonal shaft which allows hand tightening of the chuck and saves me time in fumbling around
with a key and dropping it on the floor and crawling around in shavings looking for the key. There is no
wrong or right way for many of the processes we use in wood working, it comes down to what works for
you. If you want to throw the safety factor into the equation none of us should even be standing in front of
a lathe.

 

[Raul McCai]

Raul, I would think the chuck on expensive machinery would be of high quality with very tight tolerances.

Expensive machinery. Now there's a concept. A decent industrial drill press; say a Clausing 20" will run over $4500, and the purchaser may still have to buy his own chuck. We mostly use hobby class equipment. It may be very good hobby class, but it's still hobby class. and manufacturers are quick to dive to the bottom of the price point ratio. Look at Felder with their Hammar line of table saws. You couldn't find a more over engineered yet horribly designed and manufactured rip fence if you were in K-Mart under a blinking blue light. http://www.clausing-industrial.com/detail.asp?p=D&l=CDP&m=CDP20

 

[Pete Blair]

Are there good, better, best Jacobs chucks? I'm upgrading some accessories and also would like to have more than one JC, so I looked in the Packard catalog thinking they might have a better one than what I have. But theirs seems generic, no brand-name. Are there some that are know to be a cut above in quality control?

Jamie. worked in industry for a long long time and have always found generic parts to be mostly less than ideal. Of course every once in a while a good one might come along but nothing beats quality. Incidentally Jacobs Chucks are my favourite chucks in all my tools!