Respirators

Discussion in 'Woodturning Health & Safety' started by MarkAndrews, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    You have to have a brain? If I had one, I would have chosen a much cheaper hobby. That way, my wife would be much happier.

    Happy wife, happy life!- Comedian Jeff Allen
     
  2. Raul McCai

    Raul McCai

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    It was an option I just got because they had a sale.
     
  3. MarkAndrews

    MarkAndrews

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    Thank you so much for your reply and of course, everyone else's reply, you guys are amazingly generous. As of today, I have a Resp O Rator on it's way from Packard. I figured I couldn't go wrong with having a device that I could just throw on in a couple of seconds, I'm sure I'll get a lot of use out of it. I've contacted Felder about the RL machines. They have a 120 and a 140 model that are somewhat less expensive than the 160. I plan on using a high quality duct as Raul suggested with flex only to the machine.
    Raul, I didn't understand what you meant when you said "Don't use ducting for lines smaller than the port on the machine reduce only for the final leg to the machine." Are you saying use large diameter lines and only reduce when you get to the machine? Raul, are there any options (i.e. automatic start) that you would recommend?
     
  4. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't know if that is what he meant, but large diameter is not always better, The size of ducting is a trade-off between flow resistance and flow velocity. Ducting needs to be small enough to maintain a high velocity and large enough that there isn't too much pressure drop. A good supplier can help you in optimizing your system to meet those design objectives.
     
  5. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    There are a number of duct flow slide rules and software programs on the internet.
    You can punch in your CFM capacity and the lengths of your duct work and the program
    will detail your required duct size and pressure drops etc.
     
  6. Ron Rutter

    Ron Rutter

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    Bill. What is ideal at the source is high volume with lower velocity other wise the air flow will tunnel & the light particles can just drift away. Most of the equipment has outlets that are way undersized & do a poor job of picking up the real bad stuff.
     
  7. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I was thinking about the ductwork between the machine and the DC. I agree that high volume is the most important for capturing dust.
     
  8. Chuck Lobaito

    Chuck Lobaito

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    For wet turning we use the RZ dust mask or our Trend Airshield and like both. For dry turning, usually the Trend. For sanding with good dust collection, Trend or RZ.

    We really like the RZ when we need a lightweight solution.

    Also, if your batteries go bad in your Trend or any other powered respiratory, have them rebuilt at Batteries Plus. The one by my office rebuilt my Trend batteries for $25 each vs. $70 new. The batteries last about 10 hours per charge.

    BTW - I also went down the Bill Pentz rabbit hole. Its a good half day of learning.
     
  9. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    I rebuilt my own for 18
     
  10. Raul McCai

    Raul McCai

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    Main lines that run across the shop should not be smaller than the port on the DC. Making them bigger can also a problem as it can cause dust traps. So, for example, if you are using 6" mains because you DC has a 6" port when you drop down from the ceiling to the machine the drop can be 5" and the run off of that to the machine can be whatever he machine port is.
    I had a hard time finding 5" flex hose I got this http://toolsandmore.us/shop-fox-w1035-wire-hose.aspx
    Grizzly sells a 4"
    http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-x...034?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com

    The wire in the flex hose has a function: Aside from strength it is the Static/Ground conductor. Expose a little of it at each end and mechanically fasten it to the machine on one end and the ducting on the other That completes the grounding circuit.

    Automatic start on the Felder gave me fits. There is a timing sequence in the electrical panel inside the RL. Felder uses a motor & starting circuit that requires a capacitor to be engaged during power up and then another that takes over and runs the motor. So when I open the panel and watch the thing power up there is a solenoid and a timer sequence with lights ( it's quite a show) that I can watch whole the thing does this.

    For Auto Start Felder sells these little current flow detection switches that you can put inline on your 220 VAC woodworking machinery but the Rep told me that they won't work on 120 VAC machinery. The little switches tell the DC to power on automatically when you hit the power to your woodworking machine.

    I didn't go this route. I didn't like the idea of all that Electrical Inrush current happening at the same time from big motors starting up at the same time (it's a residence not a commercial building). So I wanted to turn the RL on and then the woodworking machine or vice a versa, just not all at once.

    I looked at the Penn State Remote Start and abandoned it in the belief that the Engineers who built it did not have the Felder in mind.

    There are lots of guys on the Felder Owners Group at Yahoo (FOG) site who have auto start.
    http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/felder-woodworking
    There's an email list serve and tons of really smart Felder owners.

    I went a different route. It's sort of nuts, but it kept me out of the RL electrical panel, which intimidated me. I can do simple electrics but not complex.

    I turn my RL on and off with two 12VDC Solenoids that I trigger from a pair of buttons (On & Off) that I built into little wood boxes and located at each of my machining stations. Each switch box is cabled (Thermostat cable) to a little main panel box that I located on the RL and actually built onto the RL (using the threaded bolt locations already on the RL) where the 12VDC is distributed. button I use a 12VDC power supply that plugs into the wall and it powers the solenoids. So my Remote system is all 12 Volts.


    I have a video of the rig here
    It looks nuts, but works flawlessly

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Bzu3N4fCo
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  11. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    One thing Raul did not cover is that Flex hose should be kept to a minimum because the ribs cause air turbulence and that will reduce the air flow. I think it has been covered but never hurts to also say turns should be gradual, no sharp 90 degree turns. I use 2 45 degree joints when I turn a corner.
     
  12. MarkAndrews

    MarkAndrews

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    Thanks Gerald, Bill Pentz hammered the point home that the ribs were an issue. I have found several posts of products that are flexible hoses available with a smooth interior (eliminating the resistance of the ribs). I found this product on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Flex-Tube-Duct-Hose-Clear-Fume/dp/B005QP96I6 I'm not recommending it, but it shows that the product does exist and can be had in diameters ranging from 4" to 10" diameters.

    I received my Resp O Rator today and it appears to be as advertised. It's lightweight, stays around your neck when not in use and is a source of comic relief to my family. If one of them walks in my shop and sees me with the Resp O Rator under my face shield, it generates an immediate snicker. I don't really care, if it's protecting my lungs I'm happy!
     
  13. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    Just wondering it says smooth interior and smooth and flat are different. It seems to me that when the hose is flexed at the very least it would cause ripples in the surface and not be flat even thought the surface is smooth VS rough (or grainy). I guess someone will have to ask the manuf or a owner of the product.
     
  14. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    That was my thought also. A hose like that even when straight isn't smooth. However, for short runs of five or six feet it's nothing to be concerned about.
     
  15. Raul McCai

    Raul McCai

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    About the ripples in flex hose. The wisdom is that minimal is better.
    Anecdotally I have a router port that is maybe 20+ feet from the RL down 3, 90-degree bends and 2, 45-degree bends & at the end of a 4" blast gate. From that blast gate I have a little better than 10 feet of 4" flex hose and another 4 foot length of steel duct to which I mounted a little shop made floor-sweep head. It shows no hesitation to suck up everything near the head.
    Now to be fair the RL really sucks and when any given gate is the only gate open, it roars, so depending on the CFM and inches of mercury that any given system can draw, mileage may vary.
     
  16. MarkAndrews

    MarkAndrews

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    I thought I should post a follow up. I ended up buying a Resp O Rator and a Trend Airshield Pro. The Resp O Rator is handy but I don't like using it for long periods of time. One of the main downsides is that you end up drooling on yourself and you wont even know you're doing it. I saw a YouTube video by a metal worker who was using the Resp O Rator and he actually retrofitted it with a baby food jar screwed into the bottom of the Resp O Rator to catch the saliva, pretty clever! I'm not putting it down, it's a great inexpensive solution to breathing wood dust. It's very light and fairly comfortable, I just don't see using it all day every day. It will definitely come in handy for quick jobs.
    I saw an almost new Trend Airshield Pro on Ebay that came with 2 batteries, charging cradle, extra headband, a pack of the face shield peel offs, the ear defenders and extra filters. I got it for less than the price of the Trend Airshield Pro new so it was a good deal. I'm really happy with the Airshield Pro. It has not taken me any time to get used to it, I don't find it particularly noisy and I think it will offer very good protection from flying objects as well as wood dust. I retrofitted the dumb charger with a Tenergy smart charger http://www.tenergy.com/01006 . With the existing battery cradle it was a very easy fix. I simply snipped the end of the connectors that come with the Tenergy, bought a $2 2.1 mm power plug from the local electronics store. It works like a champ! If anyone wants more info on that just send me a message.
     
  17. Ron Rutter

    Ron Rutter

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    If you wear glasses you might check them for dust at the days end!!
     

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